I've been thinking about buying and binging Coate's run, but it seems unpopular here. What is it that you guys don't like about Coate's run?
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I've been thinking about buying and binging Coate's run, but it seems unpopular here. What is it that you guys don't like about Coate's run?
[QUOTE=Askia;2974821]I've been thinking about buying and binging Coate's run, but it seems unpopular here. What is it that you guys don't like about Coate's run?[/QUOTE]
Because In Coates' run, T'Challa is a supporting character in his own book. He's rarely ever useful as all the cool stuff is done by the supporting cast.
And T'Challa is written so out of character in this series that it's just disgusting, because you know the badass warrior king that's one of the most intelligent and cunning men in the marvel universe that takes **** from nobody and is always two steps ahead of everybody? Yeah sorry, won't find him here because he's been replaced by some milquetoast sad sack that constantly whines about how he doesn't want to be king and constantly needs his hand held by the supporting characters. And you know how Black Panther has fought the likes of the Fantastic Four, The Skrulls, and Mephisto and won? Now T'Challa is getting his ass whooped by Z-List villains that would be cannon fodder to him under normal circumstances.
But the biggest slap in the face that has come in the form of Coates run is what he did to Wakanda. By now every long time Black Panther fan knows that women are highly respected in Wakandan society and hold significant positions of power. But what does Coates do? He just goes in Boko Haramizes wakanda and tries to push some false narrative that women are second class citizens in Wakanda, even going as far to put fucking rape camps in trees. Rape camps?! Are you fucking kidding me?!
I am just floored how this guy said in various interviews how doesn't even like T'Challa as a character and how he has no plans to use this run to elevate him and Marvel still thought it was a good idea to hire him as a writer for the BP solo. Coates constantly found something wrong with priests and Hudlins runs without having a single positive thing to say and then he wants to go around and say that he hopes Black Panther will be "some kids Spider-Man". No screw you Coates, if I want to read something that gives me spidey vibes then damn it, I'll read a spider-man comic. When I read a Black Panther comic I expect to see a king on some boss **** who kicks ass, takes names, and gets things done.
2018 can't come soon enough because then the whole world will see what T'Challa and Wakanda are supposed to be like thanks to the movie and cartoons and the Coatesverse will be exposed for the fraud that it truly is and I will rejoice when he leaves the BP mythos for good.
[QUOTE=Askia;2974821]I've been thinking about buying and binging Coate's run, but it seems unpopular here. What is it that you guys don't like about Coate's run?[/QUOTE]
If you can get it from the library-do that first.
What folks don't like about his run is BP being shown inferior in his own book. Getting overshadow by Storm & Midnight Angels-who can support their own books. With narratives that panders to black dysfunction & feminism. Because it leads to easy sales as so many who do that have shown.
Nobody wants a book that is a secret solo for undeserving folks who can't hold solo or are neglected by their own franchise office. Right now it's about BLACK PANTHER-nobody else.
Folks don't want an inferior Black Panther with that movie coming out. You can't show a strong one in movies and toss out a bad one in comics.
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2974749]He's written so far only season 2 which is goin on now and as of now they're "ok" with it. They can now either start flexing editorial mandates or go with a new writer[/QUOTE]
Again, they will flex editorial muscle or get a new writer depending on whether or not they actually have a problem with it.
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2974893]If you can get it from the library-do that first.
What folks don't like about his run is BP being shown inferior in his own book. Getting overshadow by Storm & Midnight Angels-who can support their own books. With narratives that panders to black dysfunction & feminism. Because it leads to easy sales as so many who do that have shown.
Nobody wants a book that is a secret solo for undeserving folks who can't hold solo or are neglected by their own franchise office. Right now it's about BLACK PANTHER-nobody else.
Folks don't want an inferior Black Panther with that movie coming out. You can't show a strong one in movies and toss out a bad one in comics.[/QUOTE]
Why do you use the word feminism as it is something bad? I don't like T'Challa being "chumped" in his own book or anywhere else for that matter but there's nothing wrong with having feminist undertones in the stories been told.
[QUOTE=Francisco;2974997]Why do you use the word feminism as it is something bad? I don't like T'Challa being "chumped" in his own book or anywhere else for that matter but there's nothing wrong with having feminist undertones in the stories been told.[/QUOTE]
Because the goal of this run is to advance women based on equality. Which by-itself isn't bad. The problem is he dragged the men and the country down instead of showcasing WK as a place were the sexes are treated as equals.
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;2974879]Because In Coates' run, T'Challa is a supporting character in his own book. He's rarely ever useful as all the cool stuff is done by the supporting cast.
And T'Challa is written so out of character in this series that it's just disgusting, because you know the badass warrior king that's one of the most intelligent and cunning men in the marvel universe that takes **** from nobody and is always two steps ahead of everybody? Yeah sorry, won't find him here because he's been replaced by some milquetoast sad sack that constantly whines about how he doesn't want to be king and constantly needs his hand held by the supporting characters. And you know how Black Panther has fought the likes of the Fantastic Four, The Skrulls, and Mephisto and won? Now T'Challa is getting his ass whooped by Z-List villains that would be cannon fodder to him under normal circumstances.
But the biggest slap in the face that has come in the form of Coates run is what he did to Wakanda. By now every long time Black Panther fan knows that women are highly respected in Wakandan society and hold significant positions of power. But what does Coates do? He just goes in Boko Haramizes wakanda and tries to push some false narrative that women are second class citizens in Wakanda, even going as far to put fucking rape camps in trees. Rape camps?! Are you fucking kidding me?!
I am just floored how this guy said in various interviews how doesn't even like T'Challa as a character and how he has no plans to use this run to elevate him and Marvel still thought it was a good idea to hire him as a writer for the BP solo. Coates constantly found something wrong with priests and Hudlins runs without having a single positive thing to say and then he wants to go around and say that he hopes Black Panther will be "some kids Spider-Man". No screw you Coates, if I want to read something that gives me spidey vibes then damn it, I'll read a spider-man comic. When I read a Black Panther comic I expect to see a king on some boss **** who kicks ass, takes names, and gets things done.
2018 can't come soon enough because then the whole world will see what T'Challa and Wakanda are supposed to be like thanks to the movie and cartoons and the Coatesverse will be exposed for the fraud that it truly is and I will rejoice when he leaves the BP mythos for good.[/QUOTE]
Oh god... that is bad... that is really really bad.
Thanks for the info, I'll hop back on Black Panther when Coates* is gone.
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;2974879]Because In Coates' run, T'Challa is a supporting character in his own book. He's rarely ever useful as all the cool stuff is done by the supporting cast.
And T'Challa is written so out of character in this series that it's just disgusting, because you know the badass warrior king that's one of the most intelligent and cunning men in the marvel universe that takes **** from nobody and is always two steps ahead of everybody? Yeah sorry, won't find him here because he's been replaced by some milquetoast sad sack that constantly whines about how he doesn't want to be king and constantly needs his hand held by the supporting characters. And you know how Black Panther has fought the likes of the Fantastic Four, The Skrulls, and Mephisto and won? Now T'Challa is getting his ass whooped by Z-List villains that would be cannon fodder to him under normal circumstances.
But the biggest slap in the face that has come in the form of Coates run is what he did to Wakanda. By now every long time Black Panther fan knows that women are highly respected in Wakandan society and hold significant positions of power. But what does Coates do? He just goes in Boko Haramizes wakanda and tries to push some false narrative that women are second class citizens in Wakanda, even going as far to put fucking rape camps in trees. Rape camps?! Are you fucking kidding me?!
I am just floored how this guy said in various interviews how doesn't even like T'Challa as a character and how he has no plans to use this run to elevate him and Marvel still thought it was a good idea to hire him as a writer for the BP solo. Coates constantly found something wrong with priests and Hudlins runs without having a single positive thing to say and then he wants to go around and say that he hopes Black Panther will be "some kids Spider-Man". No screw you Coates, if I want to read something that gives me spidey vibes then damn it, I'll read a spider-man comic. When I read a Black Panther comic I expect to see a king on some boss **** who kicks ass, takes names, and gets things done.
2018 can't come soon enough because then the whole world will see what T'Challa and Wakanda are supposed to be like thanks to the movie and cartoons and the Coatesverse will be exposed for the fraud that it truly is and I will rejoice when he leaves the BP mythos for good.[/QUOTE]
What interview does he actually say he doesn't like T'Challa and has no plans to use this run to elevate him?
[QUOTE=XPac;2975146]What interview does he actually say he doesn't like T'Challa and has no plans to use this run to elevate him?[/QUOTE]
I guess that's the impression that some people get. I appreciate what Coates has done with T'Challa as far as putting him in a philosophically compromising situation and developing his world. I rate his current run highly and would recommend it to anyone interested in seeing more of Wakanda and seeing T'Challa grapple with what it means to be king. Coates has brought new elements to the mythos while bringing in some cool supporting cast representing both the past and the future. I think he's pushed forward BP and his world despite the legitimate fact that he's not particularly good at establishing feats and combat scenes. Nonetheless, I think that's slowly changing as the last issue further demonstrates and as we move on to higher level threats in the form of ancient gods. T'Challa is also becoming more confident after understandably going through a kind of awakening about what his obligations are and what he means to the Wakandan people. Overall, I believe Coates has advanced T'Challa in new ways while adding more layers to Wakanda and its major players. I count that as elevation.
[QUOTE=XPac;2974965]Again, they will flex editorial muscle or get a new writer depending on whether or not they actually have a problem with it.[/QUOTE]
Low sales even in tpb form is a problem, when you don't have current comic material to point at after a movie and cartoon someone in the powers that be will take issue
[QUOTE=Francisco;2974997]Why do you use the word[B] feminism[/B] as it is something bad? I don't like T'Challa being "chumped" in his own book or anywhere else for that matter but there's nothing wrong with having feminist undertones in the stories been told.[/QUOTE]
Because it's used as a weapon for victim hood. It's used to sell the crap of black man oppress black women trope.
This run chumps the mess out Black Panther-with a narrative that panders to that group. They scream for black men to stand up yet get mad when they do.
The BP we all know would never bow down to the hired help.
Instead we get victim hood showcase and sisters doing it for themselves while the black man stands in the back.
When we need a book that shows BP leading and his female help with him every step of the way not fighting him.
At a time when that NEEDS to be seen.
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2975243]Low sales even in tpb form is a problem, when you don't have current comic material to point at after a movie and cartoon someone in the powers that be will take issue[/QUOTE]
And that's why you have another BP special before the film not by Coates.
Marvel is so lucky Dc is tossing out no real competition for Black Panther.
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2975243]Low sales even in tpb form is a problem, when you don't have current comic material to point at after a movie and cartoon someone in the powers that be will take issue[/QUOTE]
Absolutely low sales is a potential problem. If the sales dip below whatever line marvel editoriall deems too low, they'll try and make changes.
I don't dispute that sales is a potential factor in marvel editorial making changes. I dispute the notion that they have a problem with how the book is written. Again, the scripts do require editorial approval and because Coates sends his scripts in months in advance, there's theoretically time to make any changes IF editorial felt that was necessary.
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2975264]And that's why you have another BP special before the film not by Coates.
Marvel is so lucky Dc is tossing out no real competition for Black Panther.[/QUOTE]
The competition is in the independent market
-Kids to Kings
-Yohance
If these were monthly titles they could build a following.
Lion Forge comic "Noble" is good. I want to check out the rest and their new universe.
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;2974879]Because In Coates' run, T'Challa is a supporting character in his own book. He's rarely ever useful as all the cool stuff is done by the supporting cast.
And T'Challa is written so out of character in this series that it's just disgusting, because you know the badass warrior king that's one of the most intelligent and cunning men in the marvel universe that takes **** from nobody and is always two steps ahead of everybody? Yeah sorry, won't find him here because he's been replaced by some milquetoast sad sack that constantly whines about how he doesn't want to be king and constantly needs his hand held by the supporting characters. And you know how Black Panther has fought the likes of the Fantastic Four, The Skrulls, and Mephisto and won? Now T'Challa is getting his ass whooped by Z-List villains that would be cannon fodder to him under normal circumstances.
But the biggest slap in the face that has come in the form of Coates run is what he did to Wakanda. By now every long time Black Panther fan knows that women are highly respected in Wakandan society and hold significant positions of power. But what does Coates do? He just goes in Boko Haramizes wakanda and tries to push some false narrative that women are second class citizens in Wakanda, even going as far to put fucking rape camps in trees. Rape camps?! Are you fucking kidding me?!
I am just floored how this guy said in various interviews how doesn't even like T'Challa as a character and how he has no plans to use this run to elevate him and Marvel still thought it was a good idea to hire him as a writer for the BP solo. Coates constantly found something wrong with priests and Hudlins runs without having a single positive thing to say and then he wants to go around and say that he hopes Black Panther will be "some kids Spider-Man". No screw you Coates, if I want to read something that gives me spidey vibes then damn it, I'll read a spider-man comic. When I read a Black Panther comic I expect to see a king on some boss **** who kicks ass, takes names, and gets things done.
2018 can't come soon enough because then the whole world will see what T'Challa and Wakanda are supposed to be like thanks to the movie and cartoons and the Coatesverse will be exposed for the fraud that it truly is and I will rejoice when he leaves the BP mythos for good.[/QUOTE]
Post of the millennium!!! :cool:
[QUOTE=chief12d;2975203]I guess that's the impression that some people get. I appreciate what Coates has done with T'Challa as far as putting him in a philosophically compromising situation and developing his world. I rate his current run highly and would recommend it to anyone interested in seeing more of Wakanda and seeing T'Challa grapple with what it means to be king. Coates has brought new elements to the mythos while bringing in some cool supporting cast representing both the past and the future. I think he's pushed forward BP and his world despite the legitimate fact that he's not particularly good at establishing feats and combat scenes. Nonetheless, I think that's slowly changing as the last issue further demonstrates and as we move on to higher level threats in the form of ancient gods. T'Challa is also becoming more confident after understandably going through a kind of awakening about what his obligations are and what he means to the Wakandan people. Overall, I believe Coates has advanced T'Challa in new ways while adding more layers to Wakanda and its major players. I count that as elevation.[/QUOTE]
Different strokes for different folks.
Coates introduction of rape camps into Wakanda was a genius level masterstroke of immense proportions.
He's the greatest BP scribe of all time.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2975316]Different strokes for different folks.
Coates introduction of rape camps into Wakanda was a genius level masterstroke of immense proportions.
He's the greatest BP scribe of all time.[/QUOTE]
He's got a ways to go before he matches Hudlin, so no he's not the greatest :p
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;2974879]Because In Coates' run, T'Challa is a supporting character in his own book. He's rarely ever useful as all the cool stuff is done by the supporting cast.
And T'Challa is written so out of character in this series that it's just disgusting, because you know the badass warrior king that's one of the most intelligent and cunning men in the marvel universe that takes **** from nobody and is always two steps ahead of everybody? Yeah sorry, won't find him here because he's been replaced by some milquetoast sad sack that constantly whines about how he doesn't want to be king and constantly needs his hand held by the supporting characters. And you know how Black Panther has fought the likes of the Fantastic Four, The Skrulls, and Mephisto and won? Now T'Challa is getting his ass whooped by Z-List villains that would be cannon fodder to him under normal circumstances.
But the biggest slap in the face that has come in the form of Coates run is what he did to Wakanda. By now every long time Black Panther fan knows that women are highly respected in Wakandan society and hold significant positions of power. But what does Coates do? He just goes in Boko Haramizes wakanda and tries to push some false narrative that women are second class citizens in Wakanda, even going as far to put fucking rape camps in trees. Rape camps?! Are you fucking kidding me?!
I am just floored how this guy said in various interviews how doesn't even like T'Challa as a character and how he has no plans to use this run to elevate him and Marvel still thought it was a good idea to hire him as a writer for the BP solo. Coates constantly found something wrong with priests and Hudlins runs without having a single positive thing to say and then he wants to go around and say that he hopes Black Panther will be "some kids Spider-Man". No screw you Coates, if I want to read something that gives me spidey vibes then damn it, I'll read a spider-man comic. When I read a Black Panther comic I expect to see a king on some boss **** who kicks ass, takes names, and gets things done.
2018 can't come soon enough because then the whole world will see what T'Challa and Wakanda are supposed to be like thanks to the movie and cartoons and the Coatesverse will be exposed for the fraud that it truly is and I will rejoice when he leaves the BP mythos for good.[/QUOTE]
Let the congregation say Amen.
If this watered down, whiny-ass version of T'Challa is what's supposed to pass as a badass competent king, then no thank you. This is worse than what Don Mac did.
Some people call it world building.
I call it the complete and utter destruction Wakanda and the BP franchise and 10 steps back for afro-futurism in Marvel Comics.
2 failed spin-offs and a solo free-falling like lead. What an utter frakking waste of almost 2 years.
[QUOTE=XPac;2975275]Absolutely low sales is a potential problem. If the sales dip below whatever line marvel editoriall deems too low, they'll try and make changes.
I don't dispute that sales is a potential factor in marvel editorial making changes. I dispute the notion that they have a problem with how the book is written. Again, the scripts do require editorial approval and because Coates sends his scripts in months in advance, there's theoretically time to make any changes IF editorial felt that was necessary.[/QUOTE]
They don't require approval if you're coming in with literary awards but that will only get you so far as even DC has bounced out novelists for less
[QUOTE=chief12d;2975339]He's got a ways to go before he matches Hudlin, so no he's not the greatest :p[/QUOTE]
Which is funny as Hudlin has done what Coates is "trying" to do but in a far less drawn out and not in a problematic way
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2975440]They don't require approval if you're coming in with literary awards but that will only get you so far as even DC has bounced out novelists for less[/QUOTE]
I assume even novelists require editorial approval for their scripts. I'm very doubtful they didn't bother reading his scripts prior to publishing them. In fact I know for a fact Axel at least did because he said so and praised it.
[QUOTE=Askia;2974821]I've been thinking about buying and binging Coate's run, but it seems unpopular here. What is it that you guys don't like about Coate's run?[/QUOTE]
Aside from the other posters who have stated quite well the faults of Coates(chokes) run, his narrative is boring. Lackluster. Sleep inducing. Lacking in charisma. Stale. Go find Priest or Hudlin runs if you can.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;2971597]Thought the issue was pretty good. Action was there and story well paced. LMFAO at those that say this was a Storm book. lol. Tchalla got lot of love in this.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2971768]That Diversity & Comics guy is a lost cause. He hates for the soul purpose of hating.
Storm's poetry was actually very true to her character. I also liked the nod to a few posts I made here. One, it's clear that writers read these boards. And two, T'Challa said it out his own mouth. Storm may not currently be queen of Wakanda, but she will always be tied to those lands. Boom!
Lol this is a Storm title about as much as it is a Jean Grey title. If T'Challa's former queen and close confidant can't appear in his title, then I dunno who can. I'm giving you the side eye, Kyss. They dont hear us, tho. Anywho, hey, my fellow BP fan friends![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=C_haos;2971847]Title this month was solid. The plot was advanced the Fenris twins out of commission and now BP knows where QDJ is. Glad we got to see some familiar faces hopefully we see some more. T'Challa really has the gift of gab first the bomber, Chang and Dr. Franklin lol talk about talk no jutsu. Speaking of his appearance it kinda reminded me of Hudlin run with the way he and BP were talking hopefully he appears later in the run he has potential. So now we see where the plotlines connect and curious to see how a former foe will eventually resurface[/QUOTE]
Good points and I agree. I like the way Coates is handling the Storm and T'Challa relationship both here and in BP&tC. I also like seeing Vibraxas and Asha as well. I also liked the talk between T'Challa and Thunderball. Seeing Ramonda healthy again is also nice.
[QUOTE=nj06;2975535]Good points and I agree. I like the way Coates is handling the Storm and T'Challa relationship both here and in BP&tC. I also like seeing Vibraxas and Asha as well. I also liked the talk between T'Challa and Thunderball. Seeing Ramonda healthy again is also nice.[/QUOTE]
Asha in particular was a surprise. I frankly didn't think we'd ever see her again. I'm still hoping the end game for brining back all these Wakandan metas is some sort of team book.
[QUOTE=Askia;2975130]Oh god... that is bad... that is really really bad.
Thanks for the info, I'll hop back on Black Panther when Coates* is gone.[/QUOTE]
I say this with respect, but just try the book for yourself. There are detractors of every book out there.
Skyvolt had a wonderful idea about going to a library.
The book has a lot of people who enjoy it, that would wholeheartedly disagree with any negative take.
The book sells better than some runs here that people love here.
Try it, you might like it or you might hate but don't deprive yourself of the experience because of negative or positive hype.
[QUOTE=XPac;2975275]Absolutely low sales is a potential problem. If the sales dip below whatever line marvel editoriall deems too low, they'll try and make changes.
I don't dispute that sales is a potential factor in marvel editorial making changes. I dispute the notion that they have a problem with how the book is written. Again, the scripts do require editorial approval and because Coates sends his scripts in months in advance, there's theoretically time to make any changes IF editorial felt that was necessary.[/QUOTE]
Editorial hires the staff and approves of the direction or we don't see the book anymore.
Quite frankly, there is no proof that another writer would improve the sales on this book for more than a moment. Coates name carries more value to the Barnes and Noble crowd than most.
That being said, I love this last issue. I took the storm opening as more how Tchalla feels about Storm than Storm feels about herself . Tchalla the politician is on full display here, using every relationship to his advantage. The Thunderball scene brought back memories of the Monica Rambeau scene from Hudlins run. Tchalla is inspirational.
[QUOTE=XPac;2975529]I assume even novelists require editorial approval for their scripts. I'm very doubtful they didn't bother reading his scripts prior to publishing them. In fact I know for a fact Axel at least did because he said so and praised it.[/QUOTE]
Not so as the nu52Static Shock incident showed that even the writer hired to write the comic wasn't even allowed to write said comic
[QUOTE=Askia;2974821]I've been thinking about buying and binging Coate's run, but it seems unpopular here. What is it that you guys don't like about Coate's run?[/QUOTE]
I just thought it was pretty boring and it wasn't really focused on T'challa early on. I dropped the book pretty early though, so I can't say if it got better. I ended up reading Priest's run and am now giving Hudlin's a go.
[QUOTE=Askia;2974821]I've been thinking about buying and binging Coate's run, but it seems unpopular here. What is it that you guys don't like about Coate's run?[/QUOTE]
Thanks for coming into the thread and asking.
My opinion: I wouldn't recommend Coates' Panther at all because the character is a shell of himself and Wakanda has been mis-characterized badly.
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2975664]Not so as the nu52Static Shock incident showed that even the writer hired to write the comic wasn't even allowed to write said comic[/QUOTE]
Doesn't appear to apply to Coates, as his book seems to still be published. I'll assume editorial has a problem with it when that stops being the case.
[QUOTE=XPac;2975708]Doesn't appear to apply to Coates, as his book seems to still be published. I'll assume editorial has a problem with it when that stops being the case.[/QUOTE]
We don't know as season 2 was only greenlit based off season 1 doing well plus his appearance in Civil War which isn't the case for season 2 which either will dig itself out of the self inflicted ditch or sit on the sidelines being passed by in favor of tv/film and team books
God this thread moves fast. I miss a day because I have to travel and it ends up with seven or eight pages!
[QUOTE=chief12d;2971953]
- Not liking the fact that this new democracy still relies on the royals so hopefully we'll see them be more proactive in later issues
[/QUOTE]
Is the new government established? I got the impression this was part of that Constitutional council or whatever that was planning out the new government.
A couple things I liked in this issue:
I like that T'Challa was shown using his intelligence - he was able to examine damage in New York and figure out what happen.
I liked his resourcefulness in the battle. Even though his armor gave way (not to regular bullets, felt like pointing that out), he wasn't close to being beaten.
I love to hate the Strucker twins. They such as usual.
I like the conversation with Thunderball.
The religion stuff was in the background this issue. I like that this seemed to tie in at the end to move the plot forward. But it's still pretty sparse, so I can't wait for some more info. I also am still nervous if he overplays his hand on the Storm as a goddess thing.
[QUOTE=XPac;2972987]'I'm still a little surprised there even is a Black Panther one mill BC. It'll be interesting to see them explaining that. But I'm glad he's on the team either way.[/QUOTE]
I just want them to explain this from an evolutionary perspective more than anything else.
[QUOTE=Cville;2973391]Maybe Bast before he becomes a god. In Celtic and Norse mythology, don't the gods originally start out as human?[/QUOTE]
Celtic mythology is weird because it was rewritten by Christian writers who were uncomfortable with the Tuatha de Danann being gods. From a historical perspective, they started as gods and then were downgraded by later writers. From the written sources, I believe they came as humans, went north, and came back as supernatural individuals (who later became fairies).
[QUOTE=Cville;2974408]I interpreted it as he is connected to this new god. Would be funny if this was all just Stane tech and Faustus mental manipulation.[/QUOTE]
That was my take, but I'm not close to understanding this yet. I'm taking a wait and see approach.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2975797]God this thread moves fast. I miss a day because I have to travel and it ends up with seven or eight pages!
Is the new government established? I got the impression this was part of that Constitutional council or whatever that was planning out the new government.
A couple things I liked in this issue:
I like that T'Challa was shown using his intelligence - he was able to examine damage in New York and figure out what happen.
I liked his resourcefulness in the battle. Even though his armor gave way (not to regular bullets, felt like pointing that out), he wasn't close to being beaten.
I love to hate the Strucker twins. They such as usual.
I like the conversation with Thunderball.
The religion stuff was in the background this issue. I like that this seemed to tie in at the end to move the plot forward. But it's still pretty sparse, so I can't wait for some more info. I also am still nervous if he overplays his hand on the Storm as a goddess thing.
I just want them to explain this from an evolutionary perspective more than anything else.
Celtic mythology is weird because it was rewritten by Christian writers who were uncomfortable with the Tuatha de Danann being gods. From a historical perspective, they started as gods and then were downgraded by later writers. From the written sources, I believe they came as humans, went north, and came back as supernatural individuals (who later became fairies).
That was my take, but I'm not close to understanding this yet. I'm taking a wait and see approach.[/QUOTE]
Do you feel he waits to long for reveals? In novels most of the big mysteries are reserved for the end, but you have to build the suspense of wanting to know what those mysteries are with small reveals along the way. I just don't feel like he is landing those reveals in a meaningful way
[QUOTE=Cville;2975821]Do you feel he waits to long for reveals? In novels most of the big mysteries are reserved for the end, but you have to build the suspense of wanting to know what those mysteries are with small reveals along the way. I just don't feel like he is landing those reveals in a meaningful way[/QUOTE]
I think he does a decent job of short-term reveals. There are a couple times where there is supposed to be an "oh ****" moment in an issue. I think those have worked for the most part (the Doom nanobots in the last arc being one). The long-term ones I think I might tend to agree, but I'm struggling to remember exactly which ones we're talking about. I think the deal with Shuri would be one, which absolutely should have been one issue earlier, but I think writing for the trade influenced that.
Is this issue the last one of the trade? If so, then I do wish there was a lot more information already. If they're doing five or six, I'm fine with ending the trade with a reveal of the stakes. If this is the last issue of this trade, then we're probably not going to truly understand this until #20, which would be too little too late.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2975833]I think he does a decent job of short-term reveals. There are a couple times where there is supposed to be an "oh ****" moment in an issue. I think those have worked for the most part (the Doom nanobots in the last arc being one). The long-term ones I think I might tend to agree, but I'm struggling to remember exactly which ones we're talking about. I think the deal with Shuri would be one, which absolutely should have been one issue earlier, but I think writing for the trade influenced that.
Is this issue the last one of the trade? If so, then I do wish there was a lot more information already. If they're doing five or six, I'm fine with ending the trade with a reveal of the stakes. If this is the last issue of this trade, then we're probably not going to truly understand this until #20, which would be too little too late.[/QUOTE]
I cant find the pre-order for it anymore, but I think the next trade is through #18. Which means were are almost done and have minimal idea what is going on. Unless this is another 12 parter
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;2975617]Editorial hires the staff and approves of the direction or we don't see the book anymore.
Quite frankly, there is no proof that another writer would improve the sales on this book for more than a moment. Coates name carries more value to the Barnes and Noble crowd than most.
That being said, I love this last issue. I took the storm opening as more how Tchalla feels about Storm than Storm feels about herself . Tchalla the politician is on full display here, using every relationship to his advantage. The Thunderball scene brought back memories of the Monica Rambeau scene from Hudlins run. Tchalla is inspirational.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think the Thunderball thing was kinda cool. It's sort of neat. Firstly just because it gave Thunderball a bit of individual spotlight, which is nice since a lot of the time the Wrecking Crew become this collective blob, but he always stood out to me. He was always this interesting contrast, being an intelligent scientist working essentially has an over muscled hired goon. And secondly it was cool, because it showed the subtle effect he can have on other black characters. We see Captain America have that sort of reaction from characters from time to time, and it's cooling seeing T'Challa have it too even with a super villain. I wonder if there will be any follow up with THunderball or if this is just a one time thing.
For comparisson, I just finished up Spider-Man Ends of the Earth which was excellent. Wish he would model that SM for his BP lol. The writer even took the Avengers out of the pic to build up SM skills and experience. Kept you engaged all the way through.
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2975748]We don't know as season 2 was only greenlit based off season 1 doing well plus his appearance in Civil War which isn't the case for season 2 which either will dig itself out of the self inflicted ditch or sit on the sidelines being passed by in favor of tv/film and team books[/QUOTE]
Given all of T'CHalla team books seem to be cancelled, I'm sadly not certain it looks like the solo book will be passed by any of his team books anytime soon (though I'd love it if he managed to find his way on an Avengers team at some point).
But certainly the movie will overshadow the comic, and that would be the case regardless of how good the comic was. A big budget major motion picture is on a whole other level than even the most sucessful comic book.
[QUOTE=chief12d;2975203]I guess that's the impression that some people get. I appreciate what Coates has done with T'Challa as far as putting him in a philosophically compromising situation and developing his world. I rate his current run highly and would recommend it to anyone interested in seeing more of Wakanda and seeing T'Challa grapple with what it means to be king. Coates has brought new elements to the mythos while bringing in some cool supporting cast representing both the past and the future. I think he's pushed forward BP and his world despite the legitimate fact that he's not particularly good at establishing feats and combat scenes. Nonetheless, I think that's slowly changing as the last issue further demonstrates and as we move on to higher level threats in the form of ancient gods. T'Challa is also becoming more confident after understandably going through a kind of awakening about what his obligations are and what he means to the Wakandan people. Overall, I believe Coates has advanced T'Challa in new ways while adding more layers to Wakanda and its major players. I count that as elevation.[/QUOTE]
I so agree with you and you speak the truth.
[QUOTE] I rate his current run highly and would recommend it to anyone interested in seeing more of Wakanda and seeing T'Challa grapple with what it means to be king. [/QUOTE]
Rape camps, disrespectful subjects and narratives of black dysfunction are not Wakanda.
Other writers seem to understand that. Because showing the kingdom sending Krulls packing, putting Namor in his place, putting the X-Men in their place, having a REAL love interest (Nightshade isn't that busy) & forming a Wakanda FF would be a better showing.
Not rape camps, BP on his knees, WASTING time with Storm as she waits for Logan, Cyclops or both to come back and his servants with knifes out trying to kill him.
[QUOTE]Coates name carries more value to the Barnes and Noble crowd than most.[/QUOTE]
So once you get past his crowd and Storm fans who is going to buy it?
[QUOTE]I cant find the pre-order for it anymore, but I think the next trade is through #18. Which means were are almost done and have minimal idea what is going on. Unless this is another 12 parter[/QUOTE]
18 should be the end of that numbering. The next trade should start with 165. A new trade should not pop up until April or May depending on issue size.