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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2918646][B]Nameless Characters Because the only roll they played was to block Mephisto, it was T'Challas tech, his prep, his tactic's and he is the one who knocks out Mephisto, and on top of that. T'Challa tricks Mephisto into going onto the sanctuary of black panthers And overwhelmed him. He did that solo. Priest had the supporting cast behave how they should of in the arc.
Coates basically has Tchalla flopping around until Shuri arrives and brings about order, she tells the MA to stand down, she starts talking with confidence while T'Challa says stupid shit Like "When did you become the pragmatic one". T'Challa convinces Changa he is the lesser of two evils and has him speak to the people, rather then do it himself.
Then he has to have Eden, who has no reason to being the mythos at all, be around to help him bring Shuri back when it should of been an opportunity for a Tech and super genius feat, and needs him to rip off RoTK, taking away a KotD feat and a huge opportunity to bridge the broken connection between Tchalla and the rest of the Panthers.
Then to finish it all off, Coates adds even more of an insult to Tchalla and he capabilities, by having akili straight run up on Tetu and knock him on his ass, had he used the barrel end like he should of he would of killed Tetu and that would of been the end of it. So akili basically punks Tetu, blowing away what little credibility he had as any type of threat, and is a subtle shade throw on Tchalla for standing in place like a damn idiot letting Tetu cast his slow ass vines instead of running up on him with his enhanced speed he has (being one of the fastest Characters on the MU) and knocking him out. Or atleast using damn force push to stop him instead of looking at him like he was caught with his pants down.
So no these aren't the same at all because Priest had the supporting cast (the nameless ones) pull off specific task Which was jam up Mephisto and everything else was straight Tchalla even though jamming is his prep.
Coates just chumped T'Challa of his big victory[/B][/QUOTE]
Except when Mephisto was overwhelmed, it wasn't solo... the previous BP souls actually helped out. But again, nameless faceless beings so they get no credit. T'CHalla came up with the plan, but he clearly had help.
The difference is that Coates makes the supporting characters matter. They're not just plot driven devices in the story... they are actual characters who matter. And yes, that also means in situations where he gets support he actually has to share the credit. You can argue making Wakandans actually matter rather than just being nameless faceless meaningless window dressing has it's advantages as far as giving T'CHalla all the spotlight. But having them be actual charcters has its advantages too.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but they already had names and a history with the mythos. Or is Shuri a new character. Or its and Aneka?
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;2918387]Sad thing about fantasy is the same as sci-fi.
By the by, did you know Moorcock wrote Elric to be a sort of opposite to Conan? Physically weak without drugs or Stormbringer and a studious introspective.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I am very familiar with Moorcock's reasonings for Eric's characteristics. :cool:
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2918804]Yes, I am very familiar with Moorcock's reasonings for Eric's characteristics. :cool:[/QUOTE]
Cool. I really hope Moorcock can find a company that he likes to make a film. Last I checked he had given up.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;2918818]Cool. I really hope Moorcock can find a company that he likes to make a film. Last I checked he had given up.[/QUOTE]
I think Guillermo del Toro would be perfect to direct such a movie. :cool:
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;2918752]Correct me if I'm wrong, but they already had names and a history with the mythos. Or is Shuri a new character. Or its and Aneka?[/QUOTE]
In Shuri's case sure. But my point isn't that all the supporting cast members didn't have names prior to that fight. My point is because they had names and actually matter the credit for the victory is more shared. But when nameless faceless characters help, T'Challa pretty much gets the credit. So it feels less like a group effort even though he had a lot of help.
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I think the important concept about main and supporting characters is "who do you perceive as being in charge?" and "who is driving the story?"
I remember secret wars for the 90s Spider-Man cartoon. Normally SM would have no business leading a team of older heroes, especially one with Cap on it. But because it was his show SM was the leader.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2918935]I think the important concept about main and supporting characters is "who do you perceive as being in charge?" and "who is driving the story?"
I remember secret wars for the 90s Spider-Man cartoon. Normally SM would have no business leading a team of older heroes, especially one with Cap on it. But because it was his show SM was the leader.[/QUOTE]
I do think it's fair to say that Shuri has been written in a way which she does take some of T'CHalla authority. Heck, the end of Hudlins to Time Runs OUt, she technicaly WAS the one in charge. She since has lost that authority, but since returning as Griot has still maintained a lot of authority due to her being granted this wisdom and knowledge. I think both Maeberry and Liss do attempt to try push her harder than just your atypical supporting character. I think they're trying to sort of give her ALMOST equal standing as T'Challa.
I think there are grander plans with Shuri than just being a supporting character. I think in their minds at least they want her to be a Batgirl or a Supergirl or whatever... a hero on her own despite being obviously rooted to Black Panther. So I think they're to a degree trying to make this almost her book too... almost.
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I hope that Wakanda annexes some developing countries I the near future. There should be a Wakandan empire. Make things better in the lands acquired. Improve the economy and the social supports. Why not?
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;2918977]I hope that Wakanda annexes some developing countries I the near future. There should be a Wakandan empire. Make things better in the lands acquired. Improve the economy and the social supports. Why not?[/QUOTE]
Hudlin or Priest spoke on it once that it is possible to take countries, but it would be harder to hold and administrate
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[QUOTE=XPac;2918723]Except when Mephisto was overwhelmed, it wasn't solo... the previous BP souls actually helped out. But again, nameless faceless beings so they get no credit. T'CHalla came up with the plan, but he clearly had help.
The difference is that Coates makes the supporting characters matter. They're not just plot driven devices in the story... they are actual characters who matter. And yes, that also means in situations where he gets support he actually has to share the credit. You can argue making Wakandans actually matter rather than just being nameless faceless meaningless window dressing has it's advantages as far as giving T'CHalla all the spotlight. But having them be actual charcters has its advantages too.[/QUOTE]
[B]Mephisto wanted T'challa's soul, and T'challa obliged, because he knew that by trying to take his soul, given his connection to the Panther god, and the previosu Black Panthers, her would have to also except the souls of the Black Panthers before him. Thats not getting a ton of help. he is connected to them and all they simply did was get devoured because thats what mephisto was trying to do.
That would be like trying to say, Using hudlin's version of the Herb, That if T'challa tricked an enemy into eating the heart shaped herb, and they were taken to bast Sanctuary and eaten, that T'challa didn't beat them because Bast ate them. When Its a T'challa victory because he is the who outsmarted the enemy.
Also LOL about Coates Characters actually mattering and not being Plot Devices. Are they very much Plot devices through and Through. Against Mephisto the Nameless entourage was brought for s specific role which was to jam mephisto, the Panthers spirits are connected to T'Challa.
With Coates, All is well when Shuri comes back and takes control, all of a sudden things are getting done in a proficient manner, Shuri given her powerset is a walking Plot device, She finds the MA and tells them to stand down and they do, being so star struck over her basically. Eden throughout the entire story is a walking Plot device, ESPECIALLY when it comes to rescuing Shuri AND the RoTK rip off that came out of no where without any mention that T'Challas KotD could even do that. and Changamire was a Plot device as well because his speech was able to undo the power of Zenzi.. a Meta humans powers are negated by a simple speech... Yeah that was totally not a Plot device or PIS..
Keep moving those goal post though. There is a reason that when it comes to supporting cast, you keep it simple. T'Challa doesnt need to share feats with Shuri, Akili, Changa, Aneka, Ayo, Eden, and now Storm in his own damn title. If it were Shuri, and Akili, and maybe 1 other character that is enough. But having this big ensemble Cast that he is sharing spotlight with is stupid and that takes away from T'challa. His supporting cast supports and elevates him. Its not some equal opportunity quest where everyone shares elevation equally.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2919004][B]Mephisto wanted T'challa's soul, and T'challa obliged, because he knew that by trying to take his soul, given his connection to the Panther god, and the previosu Black Panthers, her would have to also except the souls of the Black Panthers before him. Thats not getting a ton of help. he is connected to them and all they simply did was get devoured because thats what mephisto was trying to do.
That would be like trying to say, Using hudlin's version of the Herb, That if T'challa tricked an enemy into eating the heart shaped herb, and they were taken to bast Sanctuary and eaten, that T'challa didn't beat them because Bast ate them. When Its a T'challa victory because he is the who outsmarted the enemy.
Also LOL about Coates Characters actually mattering and not being Plot Devices. Are they very much Plot devices through and Through. Against Mephisto the Nameless entourage was brought for s specific role which was to jam mephisto, the Panthers spirits are connected to T'Challa.
With Coates, All is well when Shuri comes back and takes control, all of a sudden things are getting done in a proficient manner, Shuri given her powerset is a walking Plot device, She finds the MA and tells them to stand down and they do, being so star struck over her basically. Eden throughout the entire story is a walking Plot device, ESPECIALLY when it comes to rescuing Shuri AND the RoTK rip off that came out of no where without any mention that T'Challas KotD could even do that. and Changamire was a Plot device as well because his speech was able to undo the power of Zenzi.. a Meta humans powers are negated by a simple speech... Yeah that was totally not a Plot device or PIS..
Keep moving those goal post though. There is a reason that when it comes to supporting cast, you keep it simple. T'Challa doesnt need to share feats with Shuri, Akili, Changa, Aneka, Ayo, Eden, and now Storm in his own damn title. If it were Shuri, and Akili, and maybe 1 other character that is enough. But having this big ensemble Cast that he is sharing spotlight with is stupid and that takes away from T'challa. His supporting cast supports and elevates him. Its not some equal opportunity quest where everyone shares elevation equally.[/B][/QUOTE]
The MA don't stand down because they are star struck by Shuri... they did in fact attack her. They stand down form Shuri because she essentially threatens to massacre their village. It had nothing to do with her powerset ... that's just Shuri being Shuri.
Eden I'll agree was a bit of a plot device. But I think Shuri, the MA, Chamgmire, and even Akili were more than that. They were given actual narratives in the story and served a function.
And speeches in comic book (and fiction in general for that matter) have been able to break mind control in comics many many times. Really, how many mind control stories can you think of where someone didn't try an emotional speech to get someone to break free of the mind control. Not that such a tactic has a 100% sucess rating, but it's a very very common tactic.
And again, I'd argue a brilliant move. Because Tetus' teachings were based on Changmire, it's the equivalent of getting Muhammad to speak out against radical Islam. It's turns their entire belief system against them. There's no stupidity in that... that's smart.
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How did Chang manage to go to the U.N. as a private citizen, then allowed to return? Could have put him on house arrest in the WK embassy for sedition.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2919044]How did Chang manage to go to the U.N. as a private citizen, then allowed to return? Could have put him on house arrest in the WK embassy for sedition.[/QUOTE]
Probably because if they did that it would've legitimized all his criticisms and proved him right. He was airing out Wakanda's dirty laundry and making claims that the kingship was wrong. It would've looked terrible if the kingship then locked him away. Plus, he needed to be in Wakanda to address those who misinterpreted his philosophy as only he could really convince them that what they were doing was wrong.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919023]The MA don't stand down because they are star struck by Shuri... they did in fact attack her. They stand down form Shuri because she essentially threatens to massacre their village. It had nothing to do with her powerset ... that's just Shuri being Shuri.
Eden I'll agree was a bit of a plot device. But I think Shuri, the MA, Chamgmire, and even Akili were more than that. They were given actual narratives in the story and served a function.
And speeches in comic book (and fiction in general for that matter) have been able to break mind control in comics many many times. Really, how many mind control stories can you think of where someone didn't try an emotional speech to get someone to break free of the mind control. Not that such a tactic has a 100% sucess rating, but it's a very very common tactic.
And again, I'd argue a brilliant move. Because Tetus' teachings were based on Changmire, it's the equivalent of getting Muhammad to speak out against radical Islam. It's turns their entire belief system against them. There's no stupidity in that... that's smart.[/QUOTE]
[B]They attacked her because they didn't recognize her, once they did they got all star struck. Shuri IS a plot device because once she came back all of a sudden order has been restored, T'Challa and everyone else fell in line behind her, and even now in S2 its very Clear she is a walking plot device, which is why her powerset is so stupid, it can literally be anything for any situation and thats bullshit. The MA weren't plot devices but simply a waling force narrative. Changa was a plot device Akili is a minor character/ used as a tool to shade throw on T'Challa. all of their functions in the story were not to elevate T'Challa but shade throw. Every. Single. One of them. Coates said from the get go this isn't a story you tell to elevate a character and he took those words to heart and run fullspeed with them.
So now your comparing Changa to a religions god? Lol. Chanag is a minor character. T'Challa should of been giving the Speech. Why? Because it was the WAKANDAN People who were dissappointed in him. So HE should be restoring their faith in him not some minor nobody character realing them in (Which the Wakandan people shouldn't have been upset with him anymore given Stanes confession) plus These were also nigandan forces in which it should of been a rally of the Wakandan people and a Threat to back the F off of Wakanda or Face destruction.
And Again Akili was simply a means to diss T'Challa, First by giving Shitty advice and T'Challa taking it even though the REAL T'Challa knows better and wouldn't fall for such a stupidly obvious tactic. and then He disses T'challa by being able to run up on tetu and knock him on his ass. yet in Issue 3 T'Challa stands there like an idiot and lets Tetu do his tai chi dance when a simple force push (like he did to Zenzi) would have likely dropped Tetu the same way. Boom issue solved in 3 issues move on to bigger better things.
So yea you will miss me with that. The entirety of Coates run is based on bullshit contrived plots, an out of character and idiot T'Challa, and a porrly depicted, racially stereotyped Wakanda filled with a biased feminist agenda [/B]
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2919069]Probably because if they did that it would've legitimized all his criticisms and proved him right. He was airing out Wakanda's dirty laundry and making claims that the kingship was wrong. It would've looked terrible if the kingship then locked him away. Plus, he needed to be in Wakanda to address those who misinterpreted his philosophy as only he could really convince them that what they were doing was wrong.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, given that the People based their philosophy on him had they locked up Changmire I think that would have helped to legitimize their cause. Changmire probably does more harm locked up than free.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2919084][B]They attacked her because they didn't recognize her, once they did they got all star struck. Shuri IS a plot device because once she came back all of a sudden order has been restored, T'Challa and everyone else fell in line behind her, and even now in S2 its very Clear she is a walking plot device, which is why her powerset is so stupid, it can literally be anything for any situation and thats bullshit. The MA weren't plot devices but simply a waling force narrative. Changa was a plot device Akili is a minor character/ used as a tool to shade throw on T'Challa. all of their functions in the story were not to elevate T'Challa but shade throw. Every. Single. One of them. Coates said from the get go this isn't a story you tell to elevate a character and he took those words to heart and run fullspeed with them.
So now your comparing Changa to a religions god? Lol. Chanag is a minor character. T'Challa should of been giving the Speech. Why? Because it was the WAKANDAN People who were dissappointed in him. So HE should be restoring their faith in him not some minor nobody character realing them in (Which the Wakandan people shouldn't have been upset with him anymore given Stanes confession) plus These were also nigandan forces in which it should of been a rally of the Wakandan people and a Threat to back the F off of Wakanda or Face destruction.
And Again Akili was simply a means to diss T'Challa, First by giving Shitty advice and T'Challa taking it even though the REAL T'Challa knows better and wouldn't fall for such a stupidly obvious tactic. and then He disses T'challa by being able to run up on tetu and knock him on his ass. yet in Issue 3 T'Challa stands there like an idiot and lets Tetu do his tai chi dance when a simple force push (like he did to Zenzi) would have likely dropped Tetu the same way. Boom issue solved in 3 issues move on to bigger better things.
So yea you will miss me with that. The entirety of Coates run is based on bullshit contrived plots, an out of character and idiot T'Challa, and a porrly depicted, racially stereotyped Wakanda filled with a biased feminist agenda [/B][/QUOTE]
Muhammad isn't actually a god, he's a prophet. But yes, I compare him to Chang because his beliefs are the foundation for a radical group. Which is exactly what makes him the perfect weapon to use AGAINST them.
And it makes more sense for Chang to give the speech over T'Challa. Chang is the basis for their belief system while T'Challa is the guy they are trying to overthrow... logically speaking who are they more likely to listen to?
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2919069]Probably because if they did that it would've legitimized all his criticisms and proved him right. He was airing out Wakanda's dirty laundry and making claims that the kingship was wrong. It would've looked terrible if the kingship then locked him away. Plus, he needed to be in Wakanda to address those who misinterpreted his philosophy as only he could really convince them that what they were doing was wrong.[/QUOTE]
You mean the people in Tetus' army who were murdering and raping? If the Wakandan military hadn't been nerfed for story reasons they would be fertilizing the soil.(SWaD)
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[QUOTE=Cville;2919137]You mean the people in Tetus' army who were murdering and raping? If the Wakandan military hadn't been nerfed for story reasons they would be fertilizing the soil.(SWaD)[/QUOTE]
Remember though the Wakandan army are essentially red shirts. That means they'll do just fine against other Red Shirts (ie the underling goons the People have working for them), but against the actual meta's on the People they're essentially canon fodder. Tetu restraining T'Challa and the HZ, and Zenzi capturing the HZ during their conflict with the MA for example.
But beyond that, Chang represented a more bloodless means of stopping the opposition. Fertilizing the soil isn't necessarily the preferred option of choice if SOME of Tetu's people are Wakandans. If POSSIBLE I'm sure T'Challa would rather minimize the bloodshed and Chang was a means of doing that.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919165]Remember though the Wakandan army are essentially red shirts. That means they'll do just fine against other Red Shirts (ie the underling goons the People have working for them), but against the actual meta's on the People they're essentially canon fodder. Tetu restraining T'Challa and the HZ, and Zenzi capturing the HZ during their conflict with the MA for example.
But beyond that, Chang represented a more bloodless means of stopping the opposition. Fertilizing the soil isn't necessarily the preferred option of choice if SOME of Tetu's people are Wakandans. If POSSIBLE I'm sure T'Challa would rather minimize the bloodshed and Chang was a means of doing that.[/QUOTE]
Redshirts held off two Black Order invasions and a Skrull army?
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[QUOTE=Cville;2919167]Redshirts held off two Black Order invasions and a Skrull army?[/QUOTE]
Red Shirts fighting other red shirts. That's fine. That's what red shirts are for... they're canon fodder for the REAL characters.
But have an actual character with an actual name showing up, and it's a problem unless the actual super hero is there to help. That's how comics work, and essentially that's how they HAVE to work. If the HZ could take care of the bad guy without T'Challa, T'Challa can sit at home eating a sandwich. But the REAL characters need to be the ones to actually beat the bad guys.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919172]Red Shirts fighting other red shirts. That's fine. That's what red shirts are for... they're canon fodder for the REAL characters.
But have an actual character with an actual name showing up, and it's a problem unless the actual super hero is there to help. That's how comics work, and essentially that's how they HAVE to work. If the HZ could take care of the bad guy without T'Challa, T'Challa can sit at home eating a sandwich. But the REAL characters need to be the ones to actually beat the bad guys.[/QUOTE]
But Tchalla was there. It was the military that didn't show up. Well they were there at the end of #10, but I guess they got lost on their way out of the city.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2919189]But Tchalla was there. It was the military that didn't show up. Well they were there at the end of #10, but I guess they got lost on their way out of the city.[/QUOTE]
There was a small portion of the military there... but again, red shirts. T'Challa and the real characters did all the work. That's how comics usually work.
The art work did a poor job of conveying the scale of the conflict though. I think that's what hurt that issue more than anything else. Just one or two shots with more than half a dozen guys in it probably would have done a world of good. Ah well... this season at least, I do think the action is being handled a bit better on the art side of things.
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The past Black Panther in the Legacy one-shot.
[IMG]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/MA7-600x911.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919100]Muhammad isn't actually a god, he's a prophet. But yes, I compare him to Chang because his beliefs are the foundation for a radical group. Which is exactly what makes him the perfect weapon to use AGAINST them.
And it makes more sense for Chang to give the speech over T'Challa. Chang is the basis for their belief system while T'Challa is the guy they are trying to overthrow... logically speaking who are they more likely to listen to?[/QUOTE]
[B]The ones tryign to overthrow the Golden City were Tetu and his forces, They were Nigandans, not Wakandan Citizens. So the Speech from T'Challa would work as a two front, One to acknowledge the People of Wakanda saying we hear you and we will be Addressing your concerns, and The other will be to Tetu and the People saying Gtfo of Wakanda or face destruction. T'Challa at this point doesnt need to be sharing the glory equally with his supporting Cast. T'Challa should get atleast 90% of the feats and credit and the other 10% divided among the supporting cast by level of importance, with Shuri take the majority. You build the title character up first and establish them, then you slowly allow for the supporting cast to share a bit more of the credit (up to a certain point) Then you can have them start gaining their own traction (Shuri being the first to expand on her own) Really if i were to say who needs their own series expansions it would be Shuri featuring the DM's Okoye, Nakie, and QDJ. And Kasper. The MA are boring and can fade away to limbo, or maybe another writer can give them some life that isn't a cliche and actually give them depth. But that is for a much later date.
No one reads batman to watch him mope around getting beat up by common street thugs, Then Robin mkes a return and cleans u the streets of Gotham while Commissioner Gordon gives a speech about how gotham needs to be better, and though Batman has failed them, things will get better if we all join hands and sing kumbaya[/b]
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919172]Red Shirts fighting other red shirts. That's fine. That's what red shirts are for... they're canon fodder for the REAL characters.
But have an actual character with an actual name showing up, and it's a problem unless the actual super hero is there to help. That's how comics work, and essentially that's how they HAVE to work. If the HZ could take care of the bad guy without T'Challa, T'Challa can sit at home eating a sandwich. But the REAL characters need to be the ones to actually beat the bad guys.[/QUOTE]
[B]Two nameless Doras beat the shit out of BW...[/B]
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[QUOTE=Holt;2919256]The past Black Panther in the Legacy one-shot.
[IMG]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/MA7-600x911.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Nice find!!
Was trying to avoid picking up Legacy and go with Venomverse, but I guess I need to get this one at least.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2919268][B]The ones tryign to overthrow the Golden City were Tetu and his forces, They were Nigandans, not Wakandan Citizens. So the Speech from T'Challa would work as a two front, One to acknowledge the People of Wakanda saying we hear you and we will be Addressing your concerns, and The other will be to Tetu and the People saying Gtfo of Wakanda or face destruction. T'Challa at this point doesnt need to be sharing the glory equally with his supporting Cast. T'Challa should get atleast 90% of the feats and credit and the other 10% divided among the supporting cast by level of importance, with Shuri take the majority. You build the title character up first and establish them, then you slowly allow for the supporting cast to share a bit more of the credit (up to a certain point) Then you can have them start gaining their own traction (Shuri being the first to expand on her own) Really if i were to say who needs their own series expansions it would be Shuri featuring the DM's Okoye, Nakie, and QDJ. And Kasper. The MA are boring and can fade away to limbo, or maybe another writer can give them some life that isn't a cliche and actually give them depth. But that is for a much later date.
No one reads batman to watch him mope around getting beat up by common street thugs, Then Robin mkes a return and cleans u the streets of Gotham while Commissioner Gordon gives a speech about how gotham needs to be better, and though Batman has failed them, things will get better if we all join hands and sing kumbaya[/b][/QUOTE]
Honestly I thought Tetu's forces were a mix of Wakandans and Nigandans but in fact they were all Nigandans then there's no reason a speech from T'Challa would be all that effective against them. Given the Nigandans aren't exactly on good terms with Wakanda, the Nigandans have no particular reason to want to listen to T'Challa. But these particular Nigandans at least were followers of Changs teachings, so they have reason to listen to him. Again, that's what made him the perfect weapon against the People. T'Challa used the foundation of their own beliefs against them.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2919275][B]Two nameless Doras beat the shit out of BW...[/B][/QUOTE]
We don't know they beat the shit out of her to be honest. I don't beleive we actually see the outcome of that fight. But certainly in a two on one fight they were taking it to Natasha. ANd they did the same to Storm in Worlds Apart (though in that instance at least they lost with Gentle there). As Red Shirts go, they're about as impressive as you can get.
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This thread never fails to amuse. Lol!
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919287]Honestly I thought Tetu's forces were a mix of Wakandans and Nigandans but in fact they were all Nigandans then there's no reason a speech from T'Challa would be all that effective against them. Given the Nigandans aren't exactly on good terms with Wakanda, the Nigandans have no particular reason to want to listen to T'Challa. But these particular Nigandans at least were followers of Changs teachings, so they have reason to listen to him. Again, that's what made him the perfect weapon against the People. T'Challa used the foundation of their own beliefs against them.[/QUOTE]
[B]T'Challa uses the speech to intimidate the People. That is more badass then "Well Changa gave a speech, maybe Wakanda isn't so bad after all" When it should be like "Oh shit, what the hell were we thinking? This is freaking Wakanda we are talking about! Lets get the #@%$ out of here!
The whole premise of Changa with all the stuff happening in Wakanda was stupid anyways[/B]
[QUOTE=XPac;2919294]We don't know they beat the shit out of her to be honest. I don't beleive we actually see the outcome of that fight. But certainly in a two on one fight they were taking it to Natasha. ANd they did the same to Storm in Worlds Apart (though in that instance at least they lost with Gentle there). As Red Shirts go, they're about as impressive as you can get.[/QUOTE]
[B]Yes we do know that she lost to them because there is a scene with her talking to tony and she is all beat up looking and he says soemthing along the lines of "You lost?" in which she replies along the lines of "Didn't you lose to T'Challa yourself?"[/B]
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I'm interested to see what part of the story Black Panther plays in it.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2919303][B]T'Challa uses the speech to intimidate the People. That is more badass then "Well Changa gave a speech, maybe Wakanda isn't so bad after all" When it should be like "Oh shit, what the hell were we thinking? This is freaking Wakanda we are talking about! Lets get the #@%$ out of here!
The whole premise of Changa with all the stuff happening in Wakanda was stupid anyways[/B]
[B]Yes we do know that she lost to them because there is a scene with her talking to tony and she is all beat up looking and he says soemthing along the lines of "You lost?" in which she replies along the lines of "Didn't you lose to T'Challa yourself?"[/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, if you think T'Challa giving an intimidating speech to scare off the people sounds more bad @$$, more power to you. I'll simply say using Chang as a weapon against the People was a brillaint makes absolutely perfect sense to me, and I'll leave it at that.
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[QUOTE=John Ossie;2919328]I'm interested to see what part of the story Black Panther plays in it.[/QUOTE]
I'm a little surprised there even is a Black Panther 1,000,000 BC.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919339]I'm a little surprised there even is a Black Panther 1,000,000 BC.[/QUOTE]
Surprisingly enough I'm not. Don't know why but I'm not surprised. Either way I'm interested to see what role Black Panther plays in it.
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[QUOTE=John Ossie;2919354]Surprisingly enough I'm not. Don't know why but I'm not surprised. Either way I'm interested to see what role Black Panther plays in it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the role each member of the group will play will be interesting. You've got a Skyfather, a Sorcerer Supreme, in there with a couple cosmic level beings. I don't know what they heck they're going to face, but unless they dig up and Infinity Gauntlet or something I almost feel sorry for them. This may literally be the most powerful super hero team in marvel history.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2919337]Hey, if you think T'Challa giving an intimidating speech to scare off the people sounds more bad @$$, more power to you. I'll simply say using Chang as a weapon against the People was a brillaint makes absolutely perfect sense to me, and I'll leave it at that.[/QUOTE]
[B]Yes because they are enemies of Wakanda. He doesn't need to have Changa give some speech about backing down because They aren't Wakandans, and its especially stupid because he is giving this speech to the Radicals while simultaneously throwing Shade.. How stupid is that.. So yea, Giving a speech to the terrorist group invading basically telling them, you are going to die if you continue your path is more badass as opposed to hey guys why don't we all hold hands and sing kumbaya and be friends? [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2919380][B]Yes because they are enemies of Wakanda. He doesn't need to have Changa give some speech about backing down because They aren't Wakandans, and its especially stupid because he is giving this speech to the Radicals while simultaneously throwing Shade.. How stupid is that.. So yea, Giving a speech to the terrorist group invading basically telling them, you are going to die if you continue your path is more badass as opposed to hey guys why don't we all hold hands and sing kumbaya and be friends? [/B][/QUOTE]
Can I vote for the version where Tchalla uses Zenzis' power against her and gives a speech that emboldens his troops giving them infinite endurance which leads to a general slaughter of Tetu's forces?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2919380][B]Yes because they are enemies of Wakanda. He doesn't need to have Changa give some speech about backing down because They aren't Wakandans, and its especially stupid because he is giving this speech to the Radicals while simultaneously throwing Shade.. How stupid is that.. So yea, Giving a speech to the terrorist group invading basically telling them, you are going to die if you continue your path is more badass as opposed to hey guys why don't we all hold hands and sing kumbaya and be friends? [/B][/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter if they are Wakandans or not. If they are followers of Chang, then Chang becomes an effective tool against them. Again, it makes perfect sense. The Peoples movement is based on Changs beliefs, so there's good reason to assume at least SOME of them will listen to him. If they are following his teachings and he's telling them to stop, those that truelly believe in him will. Or at least strongly consider it. It's not simply about holding hands and singing... it's about attacking them at the core of their belief system.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2919388]Can I vote for the version where Tchalla uses Zenzis' power against her and gives a speech that emboldens his troops giving them infinite endurance which leads to a general slaughter of Tetu's forces?[/QUOTE]
I'm not entirely sure T'Challa has the ability to do that. But I do wonder if Shuri could have used her zombie summoning powers in that particular fight. I would presume there's at least a couple dead bodies lying around.
But I suppose T'Challa already had a plan in mind to use ghosts, so zombies weren't needed.