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[QUOTE=Bushido Brown;2320772]What do you guys hope the third book will be about?
I want it to be about past black panthers and their struggles.
This could be their chance to flesh out a female Panther.[/QUOTE]
Shuri, Many cults of Wakanda, Crew or Panthers of past
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2322316][B]i wonder how Shuri will end up after she comes back. I wonder of she would be able to hold a Solo [/B][/QUOTE]
A good indicator might be the WoW book. If that book can do alright then it's possible any BP related book with Coates involved at least has a good shot.
But Shiri hasn't quite benefited a whole lot from the recent BP insurgence. She wasn't in Civil War aND she's not in Ultimates. Not sure if she's in the cartoon. Her role in the solo book is somewhat limited too so its hard to say.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2322316][B]i wonder how Shuri will end up after she comes back. I wonder of she would be able to hold a Solo [/B][/QUOTE]
The WoW book will set the tone. If that does well, a Shuri book could work.
Granted, I could see Marvel just doing an arc on her specifically for WoW, after Aneka and Ayo's arc is done.
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[QUOTE=Bushido Brown;2320471]
The only way I'd be okay with them using White Wolf is if they ret-con Thor's backstory to give him an adopted black brother named Shango. Until then White Wolf can stay in limbo with all the other unused/forgotten comic book characters.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;2320525]100% agree. I never liked White Wolf in the comics and i want him as far away from the MCU as possible.[/QUOTE]
Can't agree more, T'Challa having a white relative is extra unnecessary, So as white characters get random poc added to family tree and myths than I'll start to some what ok with T 'Challa white brother..
Hunter and Kasper Cole should be combined into one character from the beginning it would service the fix the issue with both characters and myths imo..
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WoW is such a weird book
It is 100% aimed at tge 70k buying the curent run + however many bkack feminists there are that might by a comic
It literally has no other market. Its marvel basically seeing how many Coates run fans, many who seem to be not ur typical comic fan, will buy another comic book
It be like carol actually selling so Marvel makes a book about alpha flugt.... but set 16 months in the past marvel time... aka ancient past lol
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2322348]WoW is such a weird book
It is 100% aimed at tge 70k buying the curent run + however many bkack feminists there are that might by a comic
It literally has no other market. Its marvel basically seeing how many Coates run fans, many who seem to be not ur typical comic fan, will buy another comic book[/QUOTE]
If you told me last year that we would be getting a BP book who's first arc is focused on two (nearly unknown) Dora Milaje, I would've lmao on the spot.
And yet, here we are...go figure.
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[QUOTE=4sake Baned;2322326]Shuri, Many cults of Wakanda, Crew or Panthers of past[/QUOTE]
[B]I wouldn't want to dive into panthers of the past just yet. Honestly I wouldn't mind another bokk focusing on T'Challa, maybe one that's more spread on the outside world (if Coates want's to keep things in house) what I honestly wouldn't mind is a Hudlin style BP x10, basically a BP: Unleashed series where things are more hardcore. The fighting the Tech everything [/B]
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2322069]Nothing to forgive my friend.
As regards my issues with Coates has done to the BP mythos stem primarily from the writers deliberate ignorance of existing BP characterization, temperament and attendant lore.
Coates has admitted to being wholly beffudled by aspects of said lore that he personally disliked or found hard to wrap his head around but worst of all remains the fact that when he had an opportunity to build on this.....
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/x5drit.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/2nav9mr.jpg[/IMG]
He instead opted to tear things down with this....
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/1zfhcwo.jpg[/IMG]
.[/QUOTE]
Every time you post those scans a tear drips from my eye.
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You must lose a lot of water that way considering the number of times they get posted ;)
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[QUOTE=4sake Baned;2322319]Panthers
WG
Loin
Croc
Heyena
Their are 18 tribes and 5 cults that are know to us the readers. It seems from every thing we know from a story stand point that their multiple tribes that are apart of most and all cults. And we also know that some of the have a main branch family/top tribe most lesss..
Panther (Main branch fam T'Challa, Shuri and etc, most tribes/Wakandans seems to be under Panthers cult)
WG (Main branch fam QDJ, M'Baku and their tribe)
Loin (Main branch fam honestly I'm to lazy to look up
characters names and I also think they are dead, but notable other members/affiliates Killmonger and his tribe. KM is doesn't seem overall that interested in Loin God or its regilon imo or whoever fan branch fam is.. For all we kno it could be him that head of this cult at this point.
Croc (Main branch fam no idea, know members not 100% sure, if I had to guess Nakia/Malice due to being born in the wetlands area I believe and maybe some of ppl who work with Solomon Pery in Panthers Prey..
Hyena ( Main branch fam and members, the young Wakandan girl ind F.foundation and parents..[/QUOTE]
Thank you and excellent insight.
More needs to be done with these other tribes. Also I'd LOVE to see an outside villain take over one of the cults. Maybe Kraven for the Hyena cult or something. Wakandan game of thrones can't happen without these other tribes each having atleast one or two strong characters leading them
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[QUOTE=iblogalot;2322006]Yes, John Cena was a good analogy to this subject. And, see, this is why I do continue to regularly lurk on this forum, and join in when I feel have something to contribute. Even while I may not agree with all the harshest critics of the current series here (except regarding the rape camps, that was absolutely horrendous), at least most are willing to acknowledge that they are in the minority on that. In previous years I've seen comic-book arguments similar to this, where people who don't like a financially successful book will make a billion excuses for why the book sells, despite how bad [B]they[/B] say it is. [I]"It's only selling because of the variant covers!"[/I] or something like that. But you don't get that here.
[/QUOTE]
Very true. That irks me. Then u got the people who attribute BP's success solely to Coates and try to undermine every other factor, as if starbrand and nightmask wouldve sold 250k f'ing issues if the writers had simply swapped. Lol Or Vision would be averaging 75k+ otherwise. Such deflections come from the same place: trying to give full credit for t'challa's success to anyone or anything other than TChalla actually proving every doubter wrong that he (and black heroes in general) can capitalize on an A plus push and connect with readers just as strongly as their (largely white) counterparts who often get afforded such luxuries.
Hell, Bp's had to come a loooong way in a much shorter time frame than a number of his fellow colleagues who have had decades of nurturing but still cant get over the hump. Cyclops (no offense) has been in cartoons and video games for close to 30 years, fox kids to xmen evolution, every console system and every arcade game, four 100milly+ movies, keys to the franchise in the teambooks, but aint no writer getting cyclops to no 80k a month or hyped for a solo flick. But BP only just now got a taste of that and look at the response. Shuri was trending on twitter just off a casting announcement lol mfing Shuri!
So altho im not a fan of the current direction of Bps solo, i am thrilled that Bp is killing it in every single medium when it comes to fan embracement.. from the comiccon stage to the books to the cartoon to the movies, to the games. And no one would care about buying any of that if they werent drawn in by t'challa himself. So now that bp has their attention, across all spectrums, its why i want to see his best foot forward, like we saw in the cartoon and the movie. And whyi still want coates to stick the landing despite how meh ive been about the first handful of issues
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I say its more the Civil War bump. T'Challa came out of that movie on Fire. So I give the Russos and Feige more credit for boosting his popularity to all time highs then Coates. Probably helps Cyborg is no real threat to Black Panther. Who do you want to be kid the hot, badass, genius warrior king from an afro future country or the high tech eunuch Frankenstein surrounded by the hot white people.
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[QUOTE=JediKage;2322845]I say its more the Civil War bump. T'Challa came out of that movie on Fire. So I give the Russos and Feige more credit for boosting his popularity to all time highs then Coates. Probably helps Cyborg is no real threat to Black Panther. Who do you want to be kid the hot, badass, genius warrior king from an afro future company or the high tech eunuch Frankenstein surrounded by the hot white people.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't underestimate Cyborg. He's been a fan favorite with a generation of kids and is featured on a daily basis on a highly rated animated show.
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[QUOTE=FIFTY-TWO (52);2322880]I wouldn't underestimate Cyborg. He's been a fan favorite with a generation of kids and is featured on a daily basis on a highly rated animated show.[/QUOTE]
As a funny lovable nonthreatening castrated Frankenstein Fan Favorite monster, yeah right. Good luck with that.
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[QUOTE=N'Dare;2322898]As a funny lovable nonthreatening castrated Frankenstein Fan Favorite monster, yeah right. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]
Let's be fair. He's a hit on a kid's show and yes, kid's like lovable monsters.
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[QUOTE=iblogalot;2321756]The key words in that sentence are [B]"on here."[/B]
Simply put, this board, specifically this forum, is a very small sampling of the audience that has read and is reading this book. So you really can't judge the book's quality by the reactions of the same dozen or so people who post in this forum every day.
As I said, I (mostly) like it, I just don't bother coming here every month after issue to argue in it's defense. Why bother? I'm happy, I'm getting a book I look, and it's selling well enough to guarantee that it will continue. So I can just carry on. I'm guessing a lot of other fans feel the same. So it's the ones who hate it that are the most active here.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I'm with you. I'm not necessarily that "feats" obsessed. I just want an intriguing narrative and rich world building. I'm getting those. Yes, this is another "Wakanda under siege" story, but its one I can appreciate. The plight of the Dora Milaje, a people losing faith in a monarchy, a reluctant monarch, I like it. I think Coates has been world building for awhile and some more T'Challa specific stuff is coming.
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You guys also forgot that a lot of the "new" readers who've commented in this thread kept repeating the tired "T'Challa is a mary sue" rhetroic. I think some of the "new" readers are comic fans who didn't like him but saw the hype he was getting from the latest Cap movie and decided to buy it for that reason. Hence their being okay with T'Challa being beat down in Coates run.
There was also a poster in here spouting that nonsense who I saw in the lgbt thread say he was only reading this run because of the lesbian characters. I can't remember their name but I wouldn't say it even if I did because I've already been accused of stalking someone's page when I really just happened to stumble upon their comments because I read/lurk other threads.
[QUOTE=FIFTY-TWO (52);2322880]I wouldn't underestimate Cyborg. He's been a fan favorite with a generation of kids and is featured on a daily basis on a highly rated animated show.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ed2962;2322945]Let's be fair. He's a hit on a kid's show and yes, kid's like lovable monsters.[/QUOTE]
As someone who was a kid when the original Teen Titans show debuted, nobody wanted to be the robot. Just saying.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Cyborg got put into a tough spot b/c the DC equivalent of Black Panther probably is or was John Stewart. As far as logical moves to make, that was as gift wrapped as it got -> get the handsome cosmically powerful black US marine to join the team and you got the black, diversity and patriotism crowd all in one... have him date Vixen like in the toons and now it's a complete sweep b/c you got black women too... but putting the machine behind John created a conflict of interest with the conservative brass of DC who weren't willing to compromise Hal Jordan.
So now you got Cyborg playing the role of Martian Manhunter / Vision / loveable monster-creation thing... which is rough b/c now he's being compared to BP and Stewart, characters who have been seen as a bit more majestic than him, fair or not.
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[QUOTE=JediKage;2322845]I say its more the Civil War bump. T'Challa came out of that movie on Fire. So I give the Russos and Feige more credit for boosting his popularity to all time highs then Coates. Probably helps Cyborg is no real threat to Black Panther. Who do you want to be kid the hot, badass, genius warrior king from an afro future country or the high tech eunuch Frankenstein surrounded by the hot white people.[/QUOTE]
It'a fair to credit the movie for a lot of the initial buzz around the book. I'm very doubtful Coatea could have garner 300k sales without some help from it.
That sais, Coates sales went up 11k from the 4th to the 5th issue and the movie was long gone. So I think it's fair to say Coates is making a very significant difference both in terms of the entertainment value in his stories and his name alone.
Some on this board don't like it but ahain, this board represents a minority of the comic book readership and even a minority of the BP fan base.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2322945]Let's be fair. He's a hit on a kid's show and yes, kid's like lovable monsters.[/QUOTE]
Don't read the Cyborg comic but I do find the Teen Titan Go Cyborg pretty darn likable. I find all the Titan Go characters likable. They're cool.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2323095]It'a fair to credit the movie for a lot of the initial buzz around the book. I'm very doubtful Coatea could have garner 300k sales without some help from it.
That sais, Coates sales went up 11k from the 4th to the 5th issue [B]and the movie was long gone.[/B] So I think it's fair to say Coates is making a very significant difference both in terms of the entertainment value in his stories and his name alone.
Some on this board don't like it but ahain, this board represents a minority of the comic book readership and even a minority of the BP fan base.[/QUOTE] The movie is never long gone. BP is on the map due to it and other contributing factors. As a result, he will always have 300k potential buyers for his books, his guest appearances, spin-offs and miniseries as a result. So it is up to the writers and creatives in charge of the books and cartoons and other outlets to keep those potential buyers coming back. That's where I give Coates credit with his world building.
The next issue with Cage Misty and Storm will also have a spike up in sales.
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[QUOTE=JediKage;2322845]I say its more the Civil War bump. T'Challa came out of that movie on Fire. So I give the Russos and Feige more credit for boosting his popularity to all time highs then Coates. Probably helps Cyborg is no real threat to Black Panther. Who do you want to be kid the hot, badass, genius warrior king from an afro future country or the high tech eunuch Frankenstein surrounded by the hot white people.[/QUOTE]
Eh... its a little bit of this, little bit of that, lot of this, lot of that.
All these things are factors:
- Coates name outside the comic world
- Coates promotional tactics and marketing which is non traditional, such as using the Atlantic, twitter, podcasts, youtube, ect. He sin't just doing newsrama and cbr interviews
- Stelfreeze's name in the nerd circles
- CW movie and the subsequent merch that followed, twitter quips that followed, tumblr stuff that followed
- 4 year run in a main Avengers title, followed by a run in the biggest MArvel event in a long time. And he had a central role in all of it.
- Marvel actually promoting him and his book. Its not just "throw dude on there and leave it alone." Even little stuff like "history of the black panther" on marvel.com. top 10 bp stories on youtube. variant covers galor They are actually trying and putting effort behind it.
All those factors lead to the buzz BP got, lead to 300K sales on #1... but comic book buzz is short lived and Coates writing has the title still selling at the top of the charts. I mean ****, Scott Lang ain't doin **** in the comics and he had possibly the coolest moment in the whole film. Bucky still can't sell despite CW + tumblr love. Saying its "CW bump" really isn't being fair.
It is fair to say ON A WHOLE, CW did more for BP than anything, ever. Bc that film sold a billion dollars and lead to merch galor. But, in the comic world, the movie is just a blip... Hickman and Coates have more to do with the current sales than Russos
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2323108]Eh... its a little bit of this, little bit of that, lot of this, lot of that.
All these things are factors:
- Coates name outside the comic world
- Coates promotional tactics and marketing which is non traditional, such as using the Atlantic, twitter, podcasts, youtube, ect. He sin't just doing newsrama and cbr interviews
- Stelfreeze's name in the nerd circles
- CW movie and the subsequent merch that followed, twitter quips that followed, tumblr stuff that followed
- 4 year run in a main Avengers title, followed by a run in the biggest MArvel event in a long time. And he had a central role in all of it.
- Marvel actually promoting him and his book. Its not just "throw dude on there and leave it alone." Even little stuff like "history of the black panther" on marvel.com. top 10 bp stories on youtube. variant covers galor They are actually trying and putting effort behind it.
All those factors lead to the buzz BP got, lead to 300K sales on #1... but comic book buzz is short lived and Coates writing has the title still selling at the top of the charts. I mean ****, Scott Lang ain't doin **** in the comics and he had possibly the coolest moment in the whole film. Bucky still can't sell despite CW + tumblr love. Saying its "CW bump" really isn't being fair.
It is fair to say ON A WHOLE, CW did more for BP than anything, ever. Bc that film sold a billion dollars and lead to merch galor. But, in the comic world, the movie is just a blip... Hickman and Coates have more to do with the current sales than Russos[/QUOTE]
This time 5 years ago fans comic fans couldn't get enough of BuckyCap.
Now after the Civil War movie, he actually has merch and a female fanbase who saw the movie.
That hasn't helped his team book sell at all though.
Now it may be an open question about how many peeps are here now reading the Black Panther for Coates alone and how many are interested
in the aftermath of the Hickman storyline.
Note: it can be two things....
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2323108]Eh... its a little bit of this, little bit of that, lot of this, lot of that.
All these things are factors:
- Coates name outside the comic world
- Coates promotional tactics and marketing which is non traditional, such as using the Atlantic, twitter, podcasts, youtube, ect. He sin't just doing newsrama and cbr interviews
- Stelfreeze's name in the nerd circles
- CW movie and the subsequent merch that followed, twitter quips that followed, tumblr stuff that followed
- 4 year run in a main Avengers title, followed by a run in the biggest MArvel event in a long time. And he had a central role in all of it.
- Marvel actually promoting him and his book. Its not just "throw dude on there and leave it alone." Even little stuff like "history of the black panther" on marvel.com. top 10 bp stories on youtube. variant covers galor They are actually trying and putting effort behind it.
All those factors lead to the buzz BP got, lead to 300K sales on #1... but comic book buzz is short lived and Coates writing has the title still selling at the top of the charts. I mean ****, Scott Lang ain't doin **** in the comics and he had possibly the coolest moment in the whole film. Bucky still can't sell despite CW + tumblr love. Saying its "CW bump" really isn't being fair.
It is fair to say ON A WHOLE, CW did more for BP than anything, ever. Bc that film sold a billion dollars and lead to merch galor. But, in the comic world, the movie is just a blip... Hickman and Coates have more to do with the current sales than Russos[/QUOTE]
I'd say this is an accurate, holistic view of things.
As an aside, for all the negatives we get on Hickman about, he did play an underrated role in this: Secret Wars II pulled 200k+ per issue -the "Civil War movie" of comic book events - and Black Panther was the co-protagonist next to Reed. The entire comic community who largely may not have known jack about or cared for BP before that event, now saw him controlling thousands of zombies, wielding the infinity gauntlet and had that page Majestic stays posting as a lasting image of him. BP became "important", it pushed him from Morris Chestnut status (the token guy in all the "black movies") closer to Will Smith / Denzel status (the A-list black guy ppl want in the "big movies").
So people were already warmed up to him more so than ever, even before all these other factors really kicked into overdrive.
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They screwed Bucky over with that Thunderbolts book and artwork. Would be like throwing BP solely on a team book with Alpha Flight and giving him a watered down Romita Jr. as the artist, with no solo or ultimates or WoW or momentum. As far as needed multi-faceted efforts go, editorial gave Bucky the finger (unintentional or not)
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2323108]Eh... its a little bit of this, little bit of that, lot of this, lot of that.
All these things are factors:
- Coates name outside the comic world
- Coates promotional tactics and marketing which is non traditional, such as using the Atlantic, twitter, podcasts, youtube, ect. He sin't just doing newsrama and cbr interviews
- Stelfreeze's name in the nerd circles
- CW movie and the subsequent merch that followed, twitter quips that followed, tumblr stuff that followed
- 4 year run in a main Avengers title, followed by a run in the biggest MArvel event in a long time. And he had a central role in all of it.
- Marvel actually promoting him and his book. Its not just "throw dude on there and leave it alone." Even little stuff like "history of the black panther" on marvel.com. top 10 bp stories on youtube. variant covers galor They are actually trying and putting effort behind it.
All those factors lead to the buzz BP got, lead to 300K sales on #1... but comic book buzz is short lived and Coates writing has the title still selling at the top of the charts. I mean ****, Scott Lang ain't doin **** in the comics and he had possibly the coolest moment in the whole film. Bucky still can't sell despite CW + tumblr love. Saying its "CW bump" really isn't being fair.
It is fair to say ON A WHOLE, CW did more for BP than anything, ever. Bc that film sold a billion dollars and lead to merch galor. But, in the comic world, the movie is just a blip... Hickman and Coates have more to do with the current sales than Russos[/QUOTE]
[B]Pretty much this. I know people don't want to give credit to Coates butds we gotta be real here, The movie would of hyped up the first 1-2 issues then from thereit would of had to more so rely on the power of Coates story telling, Despite alot of us here not liking the book Im not going to dismiss Coates ability to generate Sales and keep them.
That said I truly Truly TRULY want Coates to get this right and stick the landing, because honestly If he can turn this into another Priest/hudlin/Liss type BP book which showcases how awesome T'Challa is, with the sales he is getting? New heights[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2322541]Thank you and excellent insight.
More needs to be done with these other tribes. Also I'd LOVE to see an outside villain take over one of the cults. Maybe Kraven for the Hyena cult or something. Wakandan game of thrones can't happen without these other tribes each having atleast one or two strong characters leading them[/QUOTE]
No prob and I agree
Also most of cult have atleast 1 enhanced or super powers person or super powers God that can give out powers or tech/magic near by to empowered some one..
Which why I can never take ppl seriously who some how want T' Challa to be the only super powers or enhanced or etc person in a BP movie..
WG (M'adu was dead just came back or if u want u can leave him dead ( understandable imo).. Ether way their no in story reasons why QDJ the rightful ruler of that Cult shouldn't be empowered with those powers..
Lion KM - if he actually read the comics and not hand book nonsense; then we know for a fact that KM is enhanced and more less immoral, Also the resurrection altar give out powers, Also their poorly created character name Bull ( Should be name Pride) has lion related powers who can easily be KM & Slay son and atvar of Lion God.
Croc/ Dino tribes - you could bring back Malice or & Solomon Prey or kiber Curel , Morlun or Moses Magum ( TNC should have used him instead of Stane), if you wanted to heroic person you could use Asha or create some new..
Tetu or Moses should hook up with the hyena tribe imo..
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2323108]Eh... its a little bit of this, little bit of that, lot of this, lot of that.
All these things are factors:
- Coates name outside the comic world
- Coates promotional tactics and marketing which is non traditional, such as using the Atlantic, twitter, podcasts, youtube, ect. He sin't just doing newsrama and cbr interviews
- Stelfreeze's name in the nerd circles
- CW movie and the subsequent merch that followed, twitter quips that followed, tumblr stuff that followed
- 4 year run in a main Avengers title, followed by a run in the biggest MArvel event in a long time. And he had a central role in all of it.
- Marvel actually promoting him and his book. Its not just "throw dude on there and leave it alone." Even little stuff like "history of the black panther" on marvel.com. top 10 bp stories on youtube. variant covers galor They are actually trying and putting effort behind it.
All those factors lead to the buzz BP got, lead to 300K sales on #1... but comic book buzz is short lived and Coates writing has the title still selling at the top of the charts. I mean ****, Scott Lang ain't doin **** in the comics and he had possibly the coolest moment in the whole film. Bucky still can't sell despite CW + tumblr love. Saying its "CW bump" really isn't being fair.
It is fair to say ON A WHOLE, CW did more for BP than anything, ever. Bc that film sold a billion dollars and lead to merch galor. But, in the comic world, the movie is just a blip... Hickman and Coates have more to do with the current sales than Russos[/QUOTE]
Cosign.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2323158][B]Pretty much this. I know people don't want to give credit to Coates butds we gotta be real here, The movie would of hyped up the first 1-2 issues then from thereit would of had to more so rely on the power of Coates story telling, Despite alot of us here not liking the book Im not going to dismiss Coates ability to generate Sales and keep them.
That said I truly Truly TRULY want Coates to get this right and stick the landing, because honestly [U]If he can turn this into another Priest/hudlin/Liss type BP book which showcases how awesome T'Challa is, with the sales he is getting? New heights[/U][/B][/QUOTE]
Here's the thing though, and I say this with much respect: we are not going to get a Priest/Hudlin/Liss type BP book from Coates. That's not happening, as it isn't his style and the BP book is selling well beyond anyone's expectations. We have to let that go.
All one can hope for is that Coates' BP, as time goes on, gets elements that those that don't like him at the moment end up liking later down the line. We all have those characters we didn't like (or even hated) initially who ended being one of our favorite characters as time goes on. That is what people will have to hope for as far as Coates' BP is concerned.
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Going back to Bucky.. and Ant Man... and Cyclops... and Scarlet Witch... it also goes back to some characters just connect with readers more so than others when put on a certain platform. Harley Quinn connects with women more than some of the more iconic x-women who have been on the grand stage longer or more frequently. Ant Man had the best moment but nobody wants to be Ant-Man (no offense). Cyclops is this that and the third, but everyone would rather be Wolverine. For whatever underlining reasons, it sometimes comes down to the character itself.
So "it was all Coates" ... blah
"it was all variant covers"... blah
"it was all Civil War"... bleh
or maybe just maybe people saw a number of those things and thought "damn, t'challa is pretty bad ass". BP was given those opportunities (a host of opportunities, multi-faceted) and he took it straight to the bank.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2323200]Cosign.
[B]Here's the thing though, and I say this with much respect: we are not going to get a Priest/Hudlin/Liss type BP book from Coates. That's not happening, as it isn't his style and the BP book is selling well beyond anyone's expectations. We have to let that go.[/B]
All one can hope for is that Coates' BP, as time goes on, gets elements that those that don't like him at the moment end up liking later down the line. We all have those characters we didn't like (or even hated) initially who ended being one of our favorite characters as time goes on. That is what people will have to hope for as far as Coates' BP is concerned.[/QUOTE]
[B]I should clarify, I know he won't write Bp like Priest or Hudlin's, but I want him to come around and be liked as much as Priest and Hudlin's Panther was, which means taking some of those aspect's and applying it to his version. Which we are seeing some trace's of Priest's Panther with Being ahead of Stane in the last 2 issues. Most Likely though, Liss Panther is probably the closest Coates Panther would come to, Liss had T'Challa being more reactive initially in his run Then he went on the offensive as the story progressed.
And I expect the same Thing here, only problem is that Liss Panther was radio shack and was badass, Coates NEEDS to show Panther is badass when he is backed by his nation too, it doesn't matter if it's not his style as it comes down to respecting continuity.
Even if he is a fan of Hickman's version, he still needs to respect that there is more to T'Challa then his recent tragedies the befell Wakanda and he isn't a guy thrown into a position he didn't want especially since there are multiple on panel showings that say otherwise.
He still needs to show us why we should root for T'Challa, and he is showing a little more now but he still has a ways to go [/B]
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[QUOTE=iblogalot;2322084]Y'all are starting to convince me I need to check out that Jonathan Hickman New Avengers run.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't. Hickman's plotting is even more on rails than Coates'. He tends to throw in extra subplots for no clear reason, and then ends up resolving them off panel because he "ran out of time". He also relies FAR too often on [I]deus ex machina[/I] endings.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2323200]
All one can hope for is that Coates' BP, as time goes on, gets elements that those that don't like him at the moment end up liking later down the line. We all have those characters we didn't like (or even hated) initially who ended being one of our favorite characters as time goes on. That is what people will have to hope for as far as Coates' BP is concerned.[/QUOTE]
When my brothers around here tell me that it's happened, I'll revisit the book, but as far as I am concerned, for the foreseeable future, Marvel won't be getting any of my hard-earned coin (for new books, anyway ;) )
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2323287][B]He still needs to show us why we should root for T'Challa, and he is showing a little more now but he still has a ways to go [/B][/QUOTE]
Somebody, a few pages back, posted a link that summed up my problems with the run. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but it was something like "Coates is failing to write a protagonist we should care about".
I honestly don't see that changing. In fact, I'd say that in his eyes, T'Challa is the least interesting character in the book.
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I tweeted to G. Willow Wilson about a possible Ms. Marvel/World of Wakanda crossover. She winked, so looks like at the very least we will get a few issues of Kamala hanging out in Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2323305]Somebody, a few pages back, posted a link that summed up my problems with the run. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but it was something like "Coates is failing to write a protagonist we should care about".
I honestly don't see that changing. In fact, I'd say that in his eyes, T'Challa is the least interesting character in the book.[/QUOTE]
Found it ([url]https://retcon-punch.com/2016/09/21/black-panther-6/):[/url]
[QUOTE]This brings me to my biggest concern about this run thus far: I have not cared much for T’Challa. The king of Wakanda often seems like the least dynamic character being offered here. [/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2322308][B]It starts out great and had a lot of build up, however it gets riddled with useless subplot that goes nowhere, times skips wasted issues on I useless info etc etc and alot of talk and not enough action.
It had potential to be so much better. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2322310]Definitely give it a read, if only to get additional context and potential clarity on why certain things on the Coates run are happening, as far as T'Challa and even Wakanda is concerned.
Of all the BP / BP-related stories, New Avengers is referenced the most by the current BP run.[/QUOTE]
Well, I got the first Ultimates trade because of this forum and I liked that. Looking through Amazon it looks like I can get some New Avengers tpb's pretty cheap (I prefer digital, but sometimes print is cheaper) if I want. So I'll check it out.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2323305]Somebody, a few pages back, posted a link that summed up my problems with the run. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but it was something like "Coates is failing to write a protagonist we should care about".
I honestly don't see that changing. In fact, I'd say that in his eyes, T'Challa is the least interesting character in the book.[/QUOTE]
[B]I agree, even in interviews Coates will talk about Aneka and Ayo in positive lights and doesn't really say much about T'Challa and if so its about his reluctant mindset to being king (still BS). So its very much obvious that he favors his pet characters hence why they are getting a spin off book. Its very annoying listening to him speak up all this praise about them and he has little to say about T'Challa with that much enthusiasm. I would love to think its a trick and that he has big plans for T'Challa to rise up and be on a new high and new level that shows that even though he is flawed he is still a bad ass and this is why. But expectations for it are low.
Honestly too, if i were writing a BP book (if i had the time and could get my artwork to match the speed of writing) i would showcase why T'Challa is great, while also have him overcoming the odds, and showing he is flawed, but not in a way thats out of continuity or in a way that my story dictates for him to act, Yes i would admit if i created a new character or villain i would be interested in promoting them, but overall they would still take the back seat to T'Challa. Thats how it should be, T'Challa shouldn't be the least compelling character in his solo, They story shouldn't come to a grinding halt where T'Challa is concerned. Its a little better now but again Coates has a ways to go to make people want to root for the protagonist[/B]
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;2323326]I tweeted to G. Willow Wilson about a possible Ms. Marvel/World of Wakanda crossover. She winked, so looks like at the very least we will get a few issues of Kamala hanging out in Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
It'll be fun seeing BP get to interact with more characters like Kamala, Misty and Luke again. And hopefully/eventually Miles at some point.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2323393]It'll be fun seeing BP get to interact with more characters like Kamala, Misty and Luke again. And hopefully/eventually Miles at some point.[/QUOTE]
Kamala and Miles are actually both really advanced in sciences (the stuff they made at Tri-State science fair was like Jr. Reed Richards level stuff) so I could see BP enjoying their company. I wish they'd bring Vibraxis back and put him on Champions, all the cool superheroes have a protégé on Champions these days.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;2323408]Kamala and Miles are actually both really advanced in sciences (the stuff they made at Tri-State science fair was like Jr. Reed Richards level stuff) so I could see BP enjoying their company. I wish they'd bring Vibraxis back and put him on Champions, all the cool superheroes have a protégé on Champions these days.[/QUOTE]
Very true, that was a fun storyline. BP was supposed to get a protege at some point iirc and I also heard that some of the vintage characters would be popping up in season 2 of Coates run, so maybe Vibraxis and QDJ may reappear soon.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;2323326]I tweeted to G. Willow Wilson about a possible Ms. Marvel/World of Wakanda crossover. She winked, so looks like at the very least we will get a few issues of Kamala hanging out in Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
In the last Ms. Marvel book her best friend is leaving to go to school in Wakanda, they have some unresolved issues, I can see this happening.