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Deleted Captain America Civil War scene with T'Challa and Natasha (in link below).
I understand why it was cut in terms of pacing, but I really like the scene.
[URL="http://www.thewrap.com/black-panther-black-widow-captain-america-civil-war-deleted-scene/"]http://www.thewrap.com/black-panther-black-widow-captain-america-civil-war-deleted-scene/[/URL]
EDIT: found one I could embed:
[video=youtube;1n3SBb_uw9w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3SBb_uw9w[/video]
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2269308]So the "never defeated" thing is purely BP's writers ignoring past continuity... like usual lol.[/QUOTE]
Black Panther's history is indeed fraught with inconsistencies. Many of this is normal since, until recently, Marvel has avoided the hard reboots that DC has been known for, they simple maintain a "sliding timescale." So most of their longterm characters have things in their histories that at some point no longer fit and have to be either ignored or rewritten. Especially with so many Marvel heroes having major moments that take place during specific real world events. So Tony Stark has to go from being wounded in the Vietnam War to being wounded in Afghanistan. Which inevitably has to wipe out a lot of his previous stories, but they don't go back to specifically say that this, this, and this didn't happen. And then some stories may still have happened, just not in the way they were originally published.
So Priest originally had T'Challa's father meet Captain America in WWII. Hudlin had to retcon that as being T'Challa's grandfather, because of the time that had passed. And even assuming that Wakandans in general and Black Panther's in particular have longer than average lifespans due to being healthier (and BP's having access to the special herbs), it won't be too long before it will be more likely that it was T'Challa's great-grandfather who ruled during WW II. And there's just little things like how in T'Challa's very first appearance we see Mr. Fantastic being amazed by the small device the Wakanda soldier used to call Wakanda from NY. That was "high-tech" in 1966, but today any cellphone could do that. So even if no one has specifically rewritten BP's first encounter with the FF, it's clear that it couldn't have happened exactly the same as it did in Fantastic Four #52.
But Black Panther in particular does seem to be a character whom most writers retcon and add things to his history, even if it contradicts previous writers. Of course that starts with Lee and Kirby themselves, as in that original story with the FF, there was no religious or royal attachment to the "Black Panther." T'Challa was basically an African Batman, who created the costume and identity of Black Panther specifically with one goal: to avenge his father's murder. No indication of previous "Black Panthers" or anything like that at all. And once T'Challa defeated Klaw, he was done being Black Panther, mission accomplished. It was the FF who convinced him to carry on. The title was so secondary to him that in his next major appearance he said he'd changed his name to Black Leopard (to avoid being associated with the Black Panther Party in America, even though he said he supported their goals). But that was quickly forgotten.
I'm at work, so I can't check, someone else will have to fill it in, if they can, but I think it McGregor who introduced the concept of previous Black Panthers? And then I think it was Peter B. Gillis in his 88 miniseries that established that there was an actual real "Panther God." And Priest established that the role of "Black Panther" was a separate distinction from "Ruler of Wakanda" (hence, why Killmonger become "Black Panther" after Ross' yielding for T'Challa, yet T'Challa remained the king), but Hudlin declared it one and the same.
And then there's the issue of T'Challa's extended family. He seemed to be an only child when first introduced. An orphan after the death of his father, with no mention of what happened to his mother. McGregor introduced Ramonda and, it should be noted, in that storyline she was repeatedly referred to as T'Challa's mother, period. It wasn't until Panther's Prey that she was specifically identified as his stepmother. I don't know why that was changed. Kirby, in his wacked out series, introduced an older half-brother Jakarra, whose mother died in childbirth. And then we also meet several members of the "royal family", 3 men and a woman, who were summoned back to Wakanda to help fight Jakarra after he turned into a monster, and T'Challa was out of town. I don't think it was specifically established how they were related to him, though (siblings? cousins? uncles and aunt?). Priest introduced the adopted White brother, Hunter, and then Hudlin of course introduced a sister, uncle and cousin.
Hudlin also introduced the idea that Wakanda was always technologically more advanced than the rest of the world, and attributed their advancement to being such strong warriors that they were never conquered or colonized, despite many attempts, which is why they were able to develop their technology over the years without distraction. That directly contradicts the original explanation that Wakanda was advanced specifically because of T'Challa's efforts as king to start utilizing vibranium for profit. Before that it was presumably like any other African nation, but it was unconquered because it was "hidden" (even in Gillis' miniseries, it's stated that outside nations still don't know exactly where Wakanda is) not because of any built-in warrior spirit of Wakandas.
But then in Hudlin's series S'yan did refer to Achebe once. So does that mean Priest's story still happened? If so, then that means Wakanda has been conquered at least once, since Achebe did temporarily take it over. And speaking of Killmonger, with Hudlin's retcon of T'Chaka's death and the role of Klaw, then Killmonger's history of being kidnapped by him never should have happened either. So what's his new "origin story?"
Yeah, if you focus on all that, it's a mess. I just take each run and story as it's own. But, y'know, if someone did a good "YEAR ONE" type of revamp for BP, streamlining his history, that could be interesting.
I wouldn't consider what Achebe did as conquering at all though. BP was just sucking him into his plan.
I agree with the rest of it though.
[QUOTE=4sake Baned;2269394]That a great idea.. I'd love it..[/QUOTE]
[B]I Think it would be cool. As it pits hated enemies into a situation where they have no choice but to work together and it would showcase just how dangerous the two are together. I dont know how familiar folks are here with Forgotten Realms, But the Rivalry i would like to see between T'Challa and Kilmonger would be Akin to Drizzt Do'Urden and Artemis Entreri. They Are equals and literally opposites. They both experienced similar Hardships and betrayal growing up and Artemis is what Drizzt would of become had he chosen to give into the cruelties and hate the world.
T'Challa and Kilmonger both lost their fathers and they chose two different paths. Kilmonger should be a reminder to T'Challa what he would become if he chose the other path. They should have the bitter rivarly and mutual respect despite the fact that neither would admit it to the other.
So then force them into a situation where they acknowledge each other and come to an understanding of sorts (obviously that would only last for the danger at hand) but i could see a really kick ass story betwen them and having some cool deep conversations where T'challa asks Kilmonger why does he hate him so much to which kilmonger responds, that he didn't save him, Despite that T'Challa states he was just a boy himself, And kilmonger Still admanantely states that T'Challa should of saved him, and should of protected him (as a king protects his subjects) and saved him from the fate that fell upon him [/B]
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2269536]I wouldn't consider what Achebe did as conquering at all though. BP was just sucking him into his plan.[/QUOTE]
Good point. Yes Achebe was "co-ruling" with Ramonda, whom he thought he had convinced to betray T'Challa, but in fact she was secretly working with T'Challa to set Achebe up for ultimate defeat. So I guess Wakanda could still be designated as "unconquered", albeit on a bit of a technicality.
I would like to see Achebe return, though. He was a good character. I could see him as a perennial thorn in T'Challa's side, like The Joker to Batman.
i thought there conversation in priests nad hudlin's runs was enough. IDK how much left there is to say
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2269550]Good point. Yes Achebe was "co-ruling" with Ramonda, whom he thought he had convinced to betray T'Challa, but in fact she was secretly working with T'Challa to set Achebe up for ultimate defeat. So I guess Wakanda could still be designated as "unconquered", albeit on a bit of a technicality.
I would like to see Achebe return, though. He was a good character. I could see him as a perennial thorn in T'Challa's side, like The Joker to Batman.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather have Malice return.
Difference between Joker and Achebe is that T'challa would kill Achebe if necessary. He isn't going to go out of his way to keep him alive like Batman does.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2269560]I'd rather have Malice return.[/QUOTE]
Eh, I never cared for the "woman scorned" motivation of Malice. Just feels cliche to me. Besides now we do have ex-Dora Milajae as villains, in the Midnight Angels. Although I guess their status as "villains" will be changing in their upcoming book.
Speaking of the DM, that's another major retcon. That concept was introduced by Priest, although we'd never heard of them before. In flashbacks he'd shown them as young girls interacting with Monica Lynne when she was living in Wakanda with T'Challa, so that would have presumably took place during McGregor's runs. Hudlin's flashbacks to WWII showed even Azzari had Dora Milajea guarding him. And Priest established that there were only 2 at a time, and they only spoke to the Black Panther in a special language, but now that's been changed to the DM being a much larger group of woman, like a special forces team of soldiers, they can talk to anyone, and Ramonda is their official leader.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2269560]Difference between Joker and Achebe is that T'challa would kill Achebe if necessary. He isn't going to go out of his way to keep him alive like Batman does.[/QUOTE]
Well, you'd have to write him in such a way that he's always smart enough to escape defeat at the end, and survive to vex T'Challa another day.
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2269550]Good point. Yes Achebe was "co-ruling" with Ramonda, whom he thought he had convinced to betray T'Challa, but in fact she was secretly working with T'Challa to set Achebe up for ultimate defeat. So I guess Wakanda could still be designated as "unconquered", albeit on a bit of a technicality.
I would like to see Achebe return, though. He was a good character. I could see him as a perennial thorn in T'Challa's side, like The Joker to Batman.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not Wakanda was unconquered probably depends on one's definition. Technically a whole earth was conquered a couple of times. If that counts then it's technically been conquered.
You could sort of argue Shadow King conquered Wakanda, though that's a pretty iffy one.
Thanos is probably the only super clear cut instance.
[QUOTE=XPac;2269606]Whether or not Wakanda was unconquered probably depends on one's definition. Technically a whole earth was conquered a couple of times. If that counts then it's technically been conquered.[/QUOTE]
I do remember [I]that[/I] distinction being argued here many times during Hudlin's run. I don't personally count stuff like that. Including Thanos.
[QUOTE=XPac;2269606]You could sort of argue Shadow King conquered Wakanda, though that's a pretty iffy one.[/QUOTE]
Well, he temporary mind-controlled T'Challa, the ruler of Wakanda. But it's not the same either.
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2269634]I do remember [I]that[/I] distinction being argued here many times during Hudlin's run. I don't personally count stuff like that. Including Thanos.
Well, he temporary mind-controlled T'Challa, the ruler of Wakanda. But it's not the same either.[/QUOTE]
Why wouldn't Thanos amd the Cabal count?
Yeah, I don't know how much more conquered you can get than reducing the population to a couple thousand and taking over the city (and then killing the queen) lol
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2269581]Well, you'd have to write him in such a way that he's always smart enough to escape defeat at the end, and survive to vex T'Challa another day.[/QUOTE]
Depending on how often he's used, this could get just as old as Bruce always letting the Joker live.
[QUOTE=XPac;2269637]Why wouldn't Thanos amd the Cabal count?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2269639]Yeah, I don't know how much more conquered you can get than reducing the population to a couple thousand and taking over the city (and then killing the queen) lol[/QUOTE]
Oh, I see, I wasn't aware of that specific story. I thought you were referring to an earlier miniseries where he "conquered the world" (like Beyonder temporarily did in Secret Wars II). If they were actually shown invading Wakanda, then I guess that does count.
[QUOTE=Agent Z;2269650]Depending on how often he's used, this could get just as old as Bruce always letting the Joker live.[/QUOTE]
I've always been of the opinion that when the reader finds himself or herself being bothered by that sort thing, that means it's time for the reader to move on to another hobby.
[QUOTE=Random4;2269311]So do you guys think Coates run will be up their with the all time great run's like Priest's Black Panther and Frank Miller's Daredevil when its all set and done[/QUOTE]
Depends. We're only in issue five of possibly 60 issues, if Coates has it his way.
I wish Hudlin would come back and write a sequel to Flags of our Fathers. I'm going to tweet about it. Feel free to do the same. I want to see a Black Panther/Invaders team up. They could set it in North Africa and make it a straight up adventure like The Last Crusade or Raiders of the Lost Ark.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2268928]So the RDJ Holme's movie ending was from the book?
Oh snaps lol[/QUOTE]
I, like most people, did not watch the sequel, so I don't know, sorry ;)
[QUOTE=Rumble;2268988]
Also, looks like Killmonger was beat, dead to rights. And T'Challa was trying not to have to kill him to end it.[/QUOTE]
Under what possible interpretation was Killmonger beat dead to rights? They were still fighting. They were still standing. T'Challa had his senses dulled. Killmonger had the strength to knock him out. I don't think Killmonger would have dealt the final blow otherwise, but there was nothing there that indicated T'Challa would either.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2269308]Re: Killmonger
So I knew I saw a scan in the past where T'challa defeated Killmonger.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/j43h72f.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pqh9QZq.jpg[/img]
Everything i've read today says this is canon. It even mentions how the Killmonger in the Iron Man annual wasn't really him, only a simalicrum. Also makes numerous metions of Panther's Rage,
also interesting thing about this issue is that it has Klaw and Killmonger working together... Klaw actually tries to kill Killmonger but Killmonger alreayd had a contigency to stop him. could be interesting if the movie follows suit.....
So the "never defeated" thing is purely BP's writers ignoring past continuity... like usual lol.[/QUOTE]
Could you please state where the scans are from?
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2269509]
I'm at work, so I can't check, someone else will have to fill it in, if they can, but I think it McGregor who introduced the concept of previous Black Panthers? And then I think it was Peter B. Gillis in his 88 miniseries that established that there was an actual real "Panther God." And Priest established that the role of "Black Panther" was a separate distinction from "Ruler of Wakanda" (hence, why Killmonger become "Black Panther" after Ross' yielding for T'Challa, yet T'Challa remained the king), but Hudlin declared it one and the same. [/quote]
I'd have to doublecheck. Regarding Gillis, I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually earlier. I know Avengers 112 had a Lion God that was a rival of the Black Panther, so I suspect it comes from at least that far back. I think the White Gorilla cult and M'Baku predates McGregor. It's important to remember there are a lot of random issues of Avengers or Black Panther Vol. 1 (post-Kirby) that had an influence we usually forget about. I think the having to fight for the throne comes from back then, which is something Hudlin copied.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2269308]Re: Killmonger
So I knew I saw a scan in the past where T'challa defeated Killmonger.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/j43h72f.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pqh9QZq.jpg[/img]
Everything i've read today says this is canon. It even mentions how the Killmonger in the Iron Man annual wasn't really him, only a simalicrum. Also makes numerous metions of Panther's Rage,
also interesting thing about this issue is that it has Klaw and Killmonger working together... Klaw actually tries to kill Killmonger but Killmonger alreayd had a contigency to stop him. could be interesting if the movie follows suit.....
So the "never defeated" thing is purely BP's writers ignoring past continuity... like usual lol.[/QUOTE]
Assuming those scans are in-continuity, it sort of puts readers in a bind.
Not one but 2 different back to back BP writers have said Killmonger never lost to T'Challa. Do we assume the BP writers are wrong, or do we give priority to the actual BP writers and effectively consider their books retconning away the loses.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2269960]
Under what possible interpretation was Killmonger beat dead to rights? They were still fighting. They were still standing. T'Challa had his senses dulled. Killmonger had the strength to knock him out. I don't think Killmonger would have dealt the final blow otherwise, but there was nothing there that indicated T'Challa would either.
.[/QUOTE] Under what interpretation would BP having Killmonger mounted and pinned to the ground with one hand wrapped around Killmonger's throat telling him to yield while Killmonger defiantly stating he'd rather pay the ultimate price than submit.. would possibly make me think Killmonger was beat? lol Ok.
We can agree to disagree in wherever this was going to go, and avoid the hair splitting over terminology and 'interpretations'
[QUOTE=Rumble;2270069]Under what interpretation would BP having Killmonger mounted and pinned to the ground with one hand wrapped around Killmonger's throat telling him to yield while Killmonger defiantly stating he'd rather pay the ultimate price than submit.. would possibly make me think Killmonger was beat? lol Ok.
We can agree to disagree in wherever this was going to go, and avoid the hair splitting over terminology and 'interpretations'[/QUOTE]
You can argue T'Challa had the advantage. But you don't have someone beat until they're beat.
As an alternate example, when Monica killed Killmonger he seemingly had the upper hand and looked ready to finish T'Challa off. But T'Challa seemed to imply he still had his next move ready to go. We don't know if he had another nove, what that move might be or if it would work. But either way the fight wasn't over till it's over.
[QUOTE=XPac;2270082]You can argue T'Challa had the advantage. But you don't have someone beat until they're beat.
As an alternate example, when Monica killed Killmonger he seemingly had the upper hand and looked ready to finish T'Challa off. But T'Challa seemed to imply he still had his next move ready to go. We don't know if he had another nove, what that move might be or if it would work. But either way the fight wasn't over till it's over.[/QUOTE]
Yea i don't care. word to t'challa.
"he was in a disadvantageous predicament befo..." blah blah blah.
If i say Black Panther kicked Bucky's ass in Civil War... i'm not going to split hairs over whether BP's foot technically ever touched Bucky's buttocks or if Scarlet Witch's intervention made it inconclusive (lol) or if Bucky disappearing after being kicked downstairs by t'challa in street clothes made things inconclusive. Everyone knows what i'm gettin at, and for those who don't, or are just lookin to nitpick word play... meh.
Indeed. Bucky spent most of his time running from Panther. Now while running may be part of a clever plan to bait your opponent into a trap. I think it was clear that was not Bucky's attention.
[QUOTE=Rumble;2270069]Under what interpretation would BP having Killmonger mounted and pinned to the ground with one hand wrapped around Killmonger's throat telling him to yield while Killmonger defiantly stating he'd rather pay the ultimate price than submit.. [B]would possibly make me think Killmonger was beat[/B]? lol Ok.
We can agree to disagree in wherever this was going to go, and avoid the hair splitting over terminology and 'interpretations'[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what were you thinking.
[QUOTE=JediKage;2270125]Indeed. Bucky spent most of his time running from Panther. Now while running may be part of a clever plan to bait your opponent into a trap. I think it was clear that was not Bucky's attention.[/QUOTE]
Maybe Bucky thought that he would tire Panther out by running.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2270131]Yeah, what were you thinking.[/QUOTE]
lol i gotta lay off the wakandan herbs and spices man...
[QUOTE=JediKage;2270125]Indeed. Bucky spent most of his time running from Panther. Now while running may be part of a clever plan to bait your opponent into a trap. I think it was clear that was not Bucky's attention.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2270132]Maybe Bucky thought that he would tire Panther out by running.[/QUOTE]
hahahahaha
I just go through viewing the deleted scenes CACW with the exchange between Black Widow and T'challa and that slice of a scene was text back on T'challa being a beast when it comes to multi-tasking as diplomat, superhero, and king while casting so much more shade at how he's written in his own book.
[QUOTE=Random4;2269311]So do you guys think Coates run will be up their with the all time great run's like Priest's Black Panther and Frank Miller's Daredevil when its all set and done[/QUOTE]
It'll probably be seen as an interesting run that sold well during a troubled time for the comic book market. I don't think it'll be seen as a Marvel classic. It won't be regarded the way say Kevin Smith's Daredevil is. It might be seen as more a curiousity like Jodi Picoult's run on Wonder Woman.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2269960]I'd have to doublecheck. Regarding Gillis, I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually earlier. I know Avengers 112 had a Lion God that was a rival of the Black Panther, so I suspect it comes from at least that far back. I think the White Gorilla cult and M'Baku predates McGregor. It's important to remember there are a lot of random issues of Avengers or Black Panther Vol. 1 (post-Kirby) that had an influence we usually forget about.[/QUOTE]
You're right, I forgot about T'Challa's early term in Avengers, which pre-dates Jungle Action and thus there was likely much development of his character and background there (by Roy Thomas). I did track down some of those, including the one where BP first takes the Avengers to Wakanda, and that's where M'Baku was introduced as, I recall, the acting ruler of Wakanda, hand-chosen by T'Challa to lead while he was away.
That's another one of those things that much of the later reveals about BP's history would probably wipe away, as it is unlikely T'Challa would have needed to pick an outsider to rule in his stead, as Uncle S'yan (who didn't exist back then) would have likely filled that role.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2269960]I think the having to fight for the throne comes from back then, which is something Hudlin copied.[/QUOTE]
The battle for the throne comes directly from Jack Kirby, that was in his series, post-McGregor's Jungle Action.
That's right, it was Kirby. I forgot about it. Post King Solomon's Frogs, no?
[QUOTE=Rumble;2270069]Under what interpretation would BP having Killmonger mounted and pinned to the ground with one hand wrapped around Killmonger's throat telling him to yield while Killmonger defiantly stating he'd rather pay the ultimate price than submit.. would possibly make me think Killmonger was beat? lol Ok.
We can agree to disagree in wherever this was going to go, and avoid the hair splitting over terminology and 'interpretations'[/QUOTE]
Even Stevie Wonder could see that T'challa was winning and had him beat, until distracted. Lol
[QUOTE=dkrook;2270174]I just go through viewing the deleted scenes CACW with the exchange between Black Widow and T'challa and that slice of a scene was text back on T'challa being a beast when it comes to multi-tasking as diplomat, superhero, and king while casting so much more shade at how he's written in his own book.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. No limitations or anchors placed on him.
[QUOTE=Rumble;2270119]Yea i don't care. word to t'challa.
"he was in a disadvantageous predicament befo..." blah blah blah.
If i say Black Panther kicked Bucky's ass in Civil War... i'm not going to split hairs over whether BP's foot technically ever touched Bucky's buttocks or if Scarlet Witch's intervention made it inconclusive (lol) or if Bucky disappearing after being kicked downstairs by t'challa in street clothes made things inconclusive. Everyone knows what i'm gettin at, and for those who don't, or are just lookin to nitpick word play... meh.[/QUOTE]
We don't have to notpick. We can keep it simple and simply say Killmonger won amd T'Challa lost if you want. That fight at least.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2270331]Exactly. No limitations or anchors placed on him.[/QUOTE]
Indeed lets hope Coates is taking his notes from the Russos and not Coates. It be embarrassing for another "Woke Brother" to fail where two white guys got the job done.
[QUOTE=XPac;2270378]We don't have to notpick. We can keep it simple and simply say Killmonger won amd T'Challa lost if you want. That fight at least.[/QUOTE]
Or we stand with what i said, since you're going with what I want. ;) But thanks for playing buddy.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2270325]Even Stevie Wonder could see that T'challa was winning and had him beat, until distracted. Lol[/QUOTE]
hahah Stevie would catch it quick like the mic
[IMG]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--VQhQ3fyO--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/tg40jikgqem36chsqc8z.gif[/IMG]
[SIZE=4][ATTACH=CONFIG]39558[/ATTACH][/SIZE] Redzone!!!!
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2270284]That's right, it was Kirby. I forgot about it. Post King Solomon's Frogs, no?[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's in Black Panther #8.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]39557[/ATTACH]
It makes a point of describing this ritual as being to decide who is fit to rule Wakanda. A couple of interesting things to note is first of all that when The Black Panther is defeated by the masked man who is revealed to be T'Challa, it's not shown or mentioned exactly who the previous Black Panther was. Just that this was the "guardian" who was chosen to rule after T'Chaka's death until T'Challa was of age. So it's clear here that "Black Panther" and "ruler of Wakanda" are the same thing. Again, contradicted what Lee and Kirby portrayed in BP's first appearance in the Fantastic Four title. That may have been first established by Roy Thomas earlier in Avengers. In fact, when the book cuts back to the present, as T'Challa is remembering his history, an asterix refers back to Avengers #87 which, thanks to Comixology, I now have.
In that book it's an expansion of T'Challa's origin, reprinting most of what we saw in FF, but then filling in the details. This book established a man, a "witch doctor", named N'Baza, supposedly T'Chaka's most trusted friend, as the man who became regent after T'Chaka's death (except N'Baza clearly did not become "Black Panther"). T'Challa and N'Baza's son B'Tumba were sent to America and Europe together to get an education. When they returned, T'Challa was suspicious that N'Baza may have been plotting to keep the throne. It shows that N'Baza made T'Challa face several tests to prove his worth, including being forced to fight a dozen Wakandan soldiers in unarmed combat, but not in same ritual combat that Kirby depicted. Then it shows T'Challa being set to some hidden room where he finds the Black Panther costume, which he acts as if he's never seen or heard of before (another contradiction), and puts it on for the first time. Then he's sent to find the heart-shaped herb and ingest it, which gives him his panther powers, and then there's a plot by A.I.M. and I won't spoil the rest. But whatever happened to N'Baza and B'Tumba? Never mentioned again, like so many other early BP characters.
Back to the present, Jakarra (who were are told is the son of T'Chaka and his first wife, who died in childbirth) has been transformed into a vibranium monster and is rampaging through Wakanda. N'Gassi, the man ruling Wakanda in T'Challa's stead, calls in "the royal family" for help. Thus introducing us to the "Black Musketeers," which this post describes better that I could:
[URL="https://blogintomystery.com/2012/07/08/are-jack-kirbys-black-musketeers-hideously-insulting-inspirationally-stupid-neither-both-black-panther-9/"]https://blogintomystery.com/2012/07/08/are-jack-kirbys-black-musketeers-hideously-insulting-inspirationally-stupid-neither-both-black-panther-9/[/URL]
This post speculates that they're T'Challa's cousins, but that's never specified in the story. Just that they are members of the royal family and that there are more of them out there, these were just the only four N'Gassi could get in touch with. As he says: [I]"I suppose the rest are all too occupied with affairs in distant lands."[/I]
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2270516]Yes, it's in Black Panther #8.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]39557[/ATTACH]
It makes a point of describing this ritual as being to decide who is fit to rule Wakanda. A couple of interesting things to note is first of all that when The Black Panther is defeated by the masked man who is revealed to be T'Challa, it's not shown or mentioned exactly who the previous Black Panther was. Just that this was the "guardian" who was chosen to rule after T'Chaka's death until T'Challa was of age. So it's clear here that "Black Panther" and "ruler of Wakanda" are the same thing. Again, contradicted what Lee and Kirby portrayed in BP's first appearance in the Fantastic Four title. That may have been first established by Roy Thomas earlier in Avengers. In fact, when the book cuts back to the present, as T'Challa is remembering his history, an asterix refers back to Avengers #87 which, thanks to Comixology, I now have.
In that book it's an expansion of T'Challa's origin, reprinting most of what we saw in FF, but then filling in the details. This book established a man, a "witch doctor", named N'Baza, supposedly T'Chaka's most trusted friend, as the man who became regent after T'Chaka's death (except N'Baza clearly did not become "Black Panther"). T'Challa and N'Baza's son B'Tumba were sent to America and Europe together to get an education. When they returned, T'Challa was suspicious that N'Baza may have been plotting to keep the throne. It shows that N'Baza made T'Challa face several tests to prove his worth, including being forced to fight a dozen Wakandan soldiers in unarmed combat, but not in same ritual combat that Kirby depicted. Then it shows T'Challa being set to some hidden room where he finds the Black Panther costume, which he acts as if he's never seen or heard of before (another contradiction), and puts it on for the first time. Then he's sent to find the heart-shaped herb and ingest it, which gives him his panther powers, and then there's a plot by A.I.M. and I won't spoil the rest. But whatever happened to N'Baza and B'Tumba? Never mentioned again, like so many other early BP characters.
Back to the present, Jakarra (who were are told is the son of T'Chaka and his first wife, who died in childbirth) has been transformed into a vibranium monster and is rampaging through Wakanda. N'Gassi, the man ruling Wakanda in T'Challa's stead, calls in "the royal family" for help. Thus introducing us to the "Black Musketeers," which this post describes better that I could:
[URL="https://blogintomystery.com/2012/07/08/are-jack-kirbys-black-musketeers-hideously-insulting-inspirationally-stupid-neither-both-black-panther-9/"]https://blogintomystery.com/2012/07/08/are-jack-kirbys-black-musketeers-hideously-insulting-inspirationally-stupid-neither-both-black-panther-9/[/URL]
This post speculates that they're T'Challa's cousins, but that's never specified in the story. Just that they are members of the royal family and that there are more of them out there, these were just the only four N'Gassi could get in touch with. As he says: [I]"I suppose the rest are all too occupied with affairs in distant lands."[/I][/QUOTE]
The cool thing is now that Disney owns marvel and Star Wars, they can do that story justice. It can be the first Star Wars/Marvel cross over.