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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3742192][COLOR="#000080"]BK, Mephisto is a universal threat and I would say he's on the same level or above Adversary.
He doesn't use brute force, he uses guile and cunning.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I thought his power was limited to the human realm on earth as his the ruler of limbo. when has he ever demonstrated or attempted to destroy the universe?
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3742175]Being a member of the Wakandan Royal Family, anyone assaulting T'challa assaulted Wakanda by proxy.
You might as well ask how many American citizens were physically hurt by Russia's alleged covert attack on the most recent Presidential election in the USA?
Making excuses for the inexcusable is way easier though.
If the roles were reversed and Storm and her beloved X-men were rendered useless by an enemy in their own books only for T'challa to ride and save their collective ass, I somehow doubt that X-fans would accept such a ridiculous premise.
If you personally can't understand why core BP enthusiasts find what Coates has done to be highly offensive under the circumstances, then there's not really much to discuss beyond this point.
Peace.[/QUOTE]
Ororo was attacking Tchalla as a a head of state. She attacked him as a fed up wife. It was tacky, poorly written and it should have never have happened in that way but if are to use your logic here it would have been wakanda attacking wakanda because as his wife she was very much still a part of the royal family.
what ororo was attempting to do by getting hope to save the earth is nowhere near comparable to the tactics Russians has used to influence the American election to get a president who would push policies more friendly to Russia.
and not making excuses simply stating facts. her fight with him was always and solely about him and her. she made that pretty obvious in the trash that was avx:
[img]https://www.abload.de/img/avsx-zone-016esd6g.jpg[/img]
storm was rendered useless against a cloud in ivx. I understand your frustrations; however, the difference between terrigen mist cloud/storm and tchalla/adversary is that ororo actually has the ability to beat and defeat a cloud and she was written ineffectual against it. tchalla with all his skill and might shouldn't be able to beat characters such as adversary on his own. that is why I don't mind how coates handled this encounter with adversary.
never said I dont understand. adversary may have not been the best threat to put tchalla against but considering adversary's history I don't see how tchalla would have defeated him without help.
[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742255]And, until the X-Men stood up to a universal threat, they did not have canon to back them up. It was made up. Because it is comic book science fiction.
I know not much and care less about the character Gambit, but if, as a professional, I was given the task of writing him, I would try to make him look good and still attach my personal view on the world agenda to the story. Cause, umm, that is professional. You do not denigrate your product.[/QUOTE]
well the xmen had help to beat adversary and it ultimately required them giving their lives. and even with sacrificing their lives he still came back to life as he cant be destroyed.
how tchalla was written imo wasnt a denigration of product. he was shown as a tactician who had the mental prowess to put together a team capable of defeating a universal threat. I think that was exceptional imo.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742261][B]Show me where it says they aren't regular humans, because that story clearly points to then being being regular people fighting for land they inhabited and insulted the denizens and bit anything special. Just heroes rose from the conflict. Storm is a mutant. And Coates butchered the BP patheon to give her a soon to be forgotten power up. [/B][/QUOTE]
I dont have to show you because coates demonstrated an actual metahuman transcending to a god via ororo. and in this detail he explained this power to being a god was in her blood. it is a better assumption to take what occurred with ororo in explaining how the original wakanda gods came to be versus assuming they were baseline him when there is nowhere in the story to suggest this.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742293]Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.[/QUOTE]
hmmm very interesting analysis never thought about it like this.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742293]Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.[/QUOTE]
I've answered that in a post days ago. Since Adversary saw Storm as a threat already, T'Challa could have used her as a distraction for the bigger trap he had set up. Killing two birds with one stone. Easy peasy, as I said on the earlier post. Pay attention.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3742176][COLOR="#000080"]True. Coates took the easiest tech feats and made them seem like some amazing abilities. Teleportation? Farce Push? Nanites?
That's grade school isht in the Marvel Universe. That gets you a set at the table with the Tinkerer and The Fixer.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
In all fairness, that's sort of the norm for T'CHalla. He's often somewhat of a minimalist when it comes to tech.
In Priests run, we were told T'Challa didn't even build armor for himself like Iron Man because he didn't need it (though later under Hudlin we would fine out he does use armor sparingly). For him it's usually more skill than tech. Does that mean he lacks in the tech feat department? You can make that argument. But he shines in a lot of areas where a lot of tech guys don't, so it balances out.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742303]I've answered that in a post days ago. Since Adversary saw Storm as a threat already, T'Challa could have used her as a distraction for the bigger trap he had set up. Killing two birds with one stone. Easy peasy, as I said on the earlier post. Pay attention.[/QUOTE]
Yes, he could have used her as a distraction. But again, the point isn't just to beat the adversary. It's to get Storm to win over the Wakandans. And obviously getting them to worship her achieves that. It also creates a degree of obligation on Storms part to Wakanda. Storm being a distraction doesn't achieve those points to the same degree.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742293]Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.[/QUOTE]
[B]Or, the writer can have Tchalla save his people, get his sister back, get the Dora's back on his side, repairehos relationship with Storm, and defeat the adversary, with Storm providing an assist and the same ending would of occurred, except this time it wouldn't be stupid and only meant to elevate blue [/B]
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742303]I've answered that in a post days ago. Since Adversary saw Storm as a threat already, T'Challa could have used her as a distraction for the bigger trap he had set up. Killing two birds with one stone. Easy peasy, as I said on the earlier post. Pay attention.[/QUOTE]
but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742319][B]Or, the writer can have Tchalla save his people, get his sister back, get the Dora's back on his side, repairehos relationship with Storm, and defeat the adversary, with Storm providing an assist and the same ending would of occurred, except this time it wouldn't be stupid and only meant to elevate blue [/B][/QUOTE]
Again, the point is to elevate Storm. He wants the Wakandans to accept her again, and Storm saving them achieves that more than Storm simply assisting in the background.
The very reason you have a problem with it is the very reason that T'CHalla himself probably did things the way he did... it put the spotlight on Storm for the Wakandans, which in turn got T'Challa the end result he wanted. T'Challa was more interested in mending fences between Storm and Wakanda than he was taking the credit for beating the Adversary. Frankly I doubt he gives a damn about the later. He knows it was all his plan and none of it could be responsible without him, and I"m sure that's more than enough.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742300]I thought his power was limited to the human realm on earth as his the ruler of limbo. when has he ever demonstrated or attempted to destroy the universe?
Ororo was attacking Tchalla as a a head of state. She attacked him as a fed up wife. It was tacky, poorly written and it should have never have happened in that way but if are to use your logic here it would have been wakanda attacking wakanda because as his wife she was very much still a part of the royal family.
what ororo was attempting to do by getting hope to save the earth is nowhere near comparable to the tactics Russians has used to influence the American election to get a president who would push policies more friendly to Russia.
and not making excuses simply stating facts. her fight with him was always and solely about him and her. she made that pretty obvious in the trash that was avx:
[img]https://www.abload.de/img/avsx-zone-016esd6g.jpg[/img]
storm was rendered useless against a cloud in ivx. I understand your frustrations; however, the difference between terrigen mist cloud/storm and tchalla/adversary is that ororo actually has the ability to beat and defeat a cloud and she was written ineffectual against it. tchalla with all his skill and might shouldn't be able to beat characters such as adversary on his own. that is why I don't mind how coates handled this encounter with adversary.
never said I dont understand. adversary may have not been the best threat to put tchalla against but considering adversary's history I don't see how tchalla would have defeated him without help.
well the xmen had help to beat adversary and it ultimately required them giving their lives. and even with sacrificing their lives he still came back to life as he cant be destroyed.
how tchalla was written imo wasnt a denigration of product. he was shown as a tactician who had the mental prowess to put together a team capable of defeating a universal threat. I think that was exceptional imo.
I dont have to show you because coates demonstrated an actual metahuman transcending to a god via ororo. and in this detail he explained this power to being a god was in her blood. it is a better assumption to take what occurred with ororo in explaining how the original wakanda gods came to be versus assuming they were baseline him when there is nowhere in the story to suggest this.[/QUOTE]
[B]The story states that man went inhabited the originators land and they Insulted them and so the originators attacked. There were some who rose up as heroes and then rose to god hood through faith. It didn't say, mutants, or metas or that they were anything other the pilgrims. Again it's what is show on panel and what wasn't shown or even said was that they were metas. [/B]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742324]but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?[/QUOTE]
[B] You should really just stop now. It's clear you don't care for T'Challa and this whole Mary Sue isht is beyond old. The fact your even using that as a reason is clear enough you only "care" about the BP mythos because Coates had turned it into a backdoor blue solo[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742332][B]The story states that man went inhabited the originators land and they Insulted them and so the originators attacked. There were some who rose up as heroes and then rose to god hood through faith. It didn't say, mutants, or metas or that they were anything other the pilgrims. Again it's what is show on panel and what wasn't shown or even said was that they were metas. [/B][/QUOTE]
storm by all technicalities is a human. so the fact that were call "men" or "man" doesnt take away from my point. so therefore storms transformation is probably the best example we have of how the original gods ascended. it would probably have been some kind of meta human with ties to divinity that would be able to do this.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742324]but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. [B]I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?[/B][/QUOTE]
No, he should remain grounded like the omega mutant, former queen, harlem repping, ascendant goddess that can apparently take down "universal threats".
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3741422]don't test me Marvel
Avengers 3: Marvel OPPOSED Black Panther fate, directors say it was 'NECESARY' - Why?
[url]https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/964824/Avengers-Infinity-War-Black-Panther-death-Loki-Vision-The-Snap-Thanos-Avengers-4-plot[/url]
[video=youtube;S9rockHC9c4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9rockHC9c4[/video][/QUOTE]
Maybe BP's success bugged the hell out of them and now they can sleep better at night.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742339][B] You should really just stop now. It's clear you don't care for T'Challa and this whole Mary Sue isht is beyond old. The fact your even using that as a reason is clear enough you only "care" about the BP mythos because Coates had turned it into a backdoor blue solo[/B][/QUOTE]
I dont care for tchalla because I'm pointing out he shouldn't be beating characters who are universal threats? no that is not how that will work and just because you don't like my opinions on the matter you most certainly do not have the authority to tell me to stop.
let coates story play out. we dont know yet what happened to the gods so before jumping to the conclusion of sayin who doesnt care about wakanda, step back breathe and let the story wrap up. the missing gods is clearly a loose end that will be tied up at a later point.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3742346]No, he should remain grounded like the omega mutant, former queen, harlem repping, ascendant goddess that can apparently take down "universal threats".[/QUOTE]
well if you had read ororo's original encounter with adversary, he was afraid of her. coates demonstrate in issue 172 why adversary was afraid of her so many years later.
and ororo has housed bast, as well as eternity, and healed the trion dimension on her own power. her defeating a universal threat with such a resume shouldn't be such a surprise.
sn: storm is a potential omega mutant and thank you for acknowledging tchalla shouldnt be beating characters like adversary on his own. he cant be a grounded character and do this.