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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3486052]Regarding 2019 Oscar discussion. I will be stunned if Black Panther isn't nominated for costume design. It's too high profile, and the costumes are something that has garnered near universal acclaim. Even though it's only the end of February I'd bet it has a very good chance at winning as well.[/QUOTE]
Seconded and amplified. Ruth Carter knocked it out.
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[QUOTE=Montez;3486304]Lol some of yall reaching like crazy
T'Challa was fine Chadwick did his thing[/QUOTE]
Chadwick was great l. In some ways you can argue he didn't stand out as much because he was somewhat of a low key character, but he was able to convey emotion and tell a story in a lot of subtle ways.
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[QUOTE=Punjabi_Hitman;3485364]You know what feats we can learn from T’Challa. Putting 100% faith into old ways gets you nowhere. That empathy doesn’t make you weak. Us men learning that embracing woman as leaders towards progress is just as effective or even better than just men.
T’Challa learned more from one movie, than Cap did in 3. Why? Because he understood what you think is right isn’t always the case and that putting 100% faith into a system isn’t for the best either. Listening to what others have to say not just men but woman as well and not just people from your own country but people from others as well is the better approach. Embracing change, empathy, nuance, and incorporating it all into finding the best path forward is the way, not forcing your opinion/will on others. Embracing woman and their strengths to help lead the charge. Helping people by making it easier for them to succeed rather than just abandoning them to their own fate. And when you see someone is wrong, stand up to them no matter who they are even if they are your own parents.
Yes woman have Shuri, Okoye, and Nakia to look up to for specific things. But T’Challa has shown what a true MAN should be like.
T’Challa is not the best superhero but the most inspiring MAN in the MCU that every male should inspire to be. Not because he is King of a nation, but because he represents what brings change for the better for everyone. The woman get to shine because he steps aside and doesn’t try to take the spotlight from them. What kind of man does Tony, or Bruce, or Hawkeye, or Thor teach you to be? Other than Cap, no one else has shown they come close.[/QUOTE]
You know what? You're right, and this is a good analysis of the situation. Perhaps my disappointment comes from the fact that I'm not seeing this analysis anywhere else in the mainstream. And maybe because a lot of it wasn't so easily apparent.
Again, I don't mind Shuri being who she is. But all of us went into this movie wanting it to elevate the status of T'Challa... And it didn't do that for the masses. No one's asking if Boseman is going to be at the opening of the STEM centers... But people care if Wright is. No one is talking about how much of a role model T'Challa is. You're able to see and analyze T'Challa's role in the movie well, and that's great.
But like... no matter how much we justify or explain it here, who really cared about Black Panther? If I search "Black Panther inspiration" or "Black Panther inspirational, it's about the women. Even when I finally find an article about T'Challa, it's centered around how he knows the women around him are his betters.
So my sadness is that - I wanted an elevation of T'Challa. Instead, it was an elevation of Wakanda alone. At least, in mainstream eyes. That makes it really easy for me to compare this to what Coates is doing. And you can argue about how the execution was, but... I feel the parallels. Idk, man.
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3486356]You know what? You're right, and this is a good analysis of the situation. Perhaps my disappointment comes from the fact that I'm not seeing this analysis anywhere else in the mainstream. And maybe because a lot of it wasn't so easily apparent.
Again, I don't mind Shuri being who she is. But all of us went into this movie wanting it to elevate the status of T'Challa... And it didn't do that for the masses. No one's asking if Boseman is going to be at the opening of the STEM centers... But people care if Wright is. No one is talking about how much of a role model T'Challa is. You're able to see and analyze T'Challa's role in the movie well, and that's great.
But like... no matter how much we justify or explain it here, who really cared about Black Panther? If I search "Black Panther inspiration" or "Black Panther inspirational, it's about the women. Even when I finally find an article about T'Challa, it's centered around how he knows the women around him are his betters.
So my sadness is that - I wanted an elevation of T'Challa. Instead, it was an elevation of Wakanda alone. At least, in mainstream eyes. That makes it really easy for me to compare this to what Coates is doing. And you can argue about how the execution was, but... I feel the parallels. Idk, man.[/QUOTE]
I Don't think there's much of a distinction between elevating T'Challa and elevating the cast Wakanda. When marvel does one or the other, it effectively does both. I think you have to look at it less as a single character and more as a franchise with lots of moving parts. When every part runs better, the whole thing runs better.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3486361]I Don't think there's much of a distinction between elevating T'Challa and elevating the cast Wakanda. When marvel does one or the other, it effectively does both. I think you have to look at it less as a single character and more as a franchise with lots of moving parts. When every part runs better, the whole thing runs better.[/QUOTE]
You say that, but literally every article is centered around how the women stole the show, what Killmonger represents, or the implication of Wakanda as a whole.
If the elevation of one lead to the elevation of another, we'd see just as much about T'Challa. Or alternatively, we wouldn't complain about T'Challa being a side character in Coates's book. But neither of those are the case. Even when I ask non-comic fans IRL (who also loved the movie), they agree T'Challa's role seemed muted.
He honestly stood out more in Civil War - though it wasn't for any deep reason, of course. Again, mainstream attention shows that people aren't seeing him like the people here did. So what's the disconnect?
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[QUOTE=CRaymond;3486342]Seconded and amplified. Ruth Carter knocked it out.[/QUOTE]
Fun fact:
Although she's worked on dozens of films this is actually the second superhero movie she was the costume designer for. The first? Meteor Man.
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[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXDTJIxUQAcz-9M.jpg:large[/img]
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3486356]You know what? You're right, and this is a good analysis of the situation. Perhaps my disappointment comes from the fact that I'm not seeing this analysis anywhere else in the mainstream. And maybe because a lot of it wasn't so easily apparent.
Again, I don't mind Shuri being who she is. But all of us went into this movie wanting it to elevate the status of T'Challa... And it didn't do that for the masses. No one's asking if Boseman is going to be at the opening of the STEM centers... But people care if Wright is. No one is talking about how much of a role model T'Challa is. You're able to see and analyze T'Challa's role in the movie well, and that's great.
But like... no matter how much we justify or explain it here, who really cared about Black Panther? If I search "Black Panther inspiration" or "Black Panther inspirational, it's about the women. Even when I finally find an article about T'Challa, it's centered around how he knows the women around him are his betters.
So my sadness is that - I wanted an elevation of T'Challa. Instead, it was an elevation of Wakanda alone. At least, in mainstream eyes. That makes it really easy for me to compare this to what Coates is doing. And you can argue about how the execution was, but... I feel the parallels. Idk, man.[/QUOTE]
I think part of it is because T'Challa already got similar praise the supporting characters are getting now after Civil War and people expected him to do his thing in this movie too which he did. It's not surprising seeing T'Challa be great anymore. Shuri/Okoye/Nakia/etc all were pleasent surprises to most people which is why people are so excited to talk about them.
I think the the other part is T'Challa will definitely be playing a major role in the MCU going forward. He's cemented himself as a major player and arguably the replacement to the face of the franchise, Tony Stark, and is already guaranteed a big role in the MCU's biggest movie, Infinity War. Even if you feel that T'Challa wasn't represented well in this movie he'll definitely be getting more spotlight. The same couldn't have been said for the supporting character had they failed to make an impact and lord knows we don't need more black characters in limbo.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;3486384][img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXDTJIxUQAcz-9M.jpg:large[/img][/QUOTE]
Always coming through. Thanks Dboi. Issue three looks promising.
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3486356]You know what? You're right, and this is a good analysis of the situation. Perhaps my disappointment comes from the fact that I'm not seeing this analysis anywhere else in the mainstream. And maybe because a lot of it wasn't so easily apparent.
Again, I don't mind Shuri being who she is. But all of us went into this movie wanting it to elevate the status of T'Challa... And it didn't do that for the masses. No one's asking if Boseman is going to be at the opening of the STEM centers... But people care if Wright is. No one is talking about how much of a role model T'Challa is. You're able to see and analyze T'Challa's role in the movie well, and that's great.
But like... no matter how much we justify or explain it here, who really cared about Black Panther? If I search "Black Panther inspiration" or "Black Panther inspirational, it's about the women. Even when I finally find an article about T'Challa, it's centered around how he knows the women around him are his betters.
So my sadness is that - I wanted an elevation of T'Challa. Instead, it was an elevation of Wakanda alone. At least, in mainstream eyes. That makes it really easy for me to compare this to what Coates is doing. And you can argue about how the execution was, but... I feel the parallels. Idk, man.[/QUOTE]
There are folks calling for scenes with stark, banner, reed and Shuri with T'Challa's name no where to be seen. What timeline are we in that that's a thing?
People are praising nakia and killmonger for their strong ideals whereas T'Challa is portrayed as indecisive for 3 quarters of the movie only to have his rebuttal of killmonger's methods drowned out by a CGI train.
They straight up say okoye is a better fighter in the movie and if they didn't, you would have thought so because all her Korean action scenes where better.
The character was completely undermined by coogler and Co. Those interviews before the movie released talking about how "T'Challa was important to them" and "he'll be inspiring" seem patronizing in retrospect. Other than being king who's told things by others, the movie isn't actually about him at all.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3486376]Fun fact:
Although she's worked on dozens of films this is actually the second superhero movie she was the costume designer for. The first? Meteor Man.[/QUOTE]
Coogler hired her. Everything is intentional. I’ve been watching her interviews for a week. She’s got clarity where others have style boards. I’m a big big fan.
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[QUOTE=CRaymond;3486453]Coogler hired her. Everything is intentional. I’ve been watching her interviews for a week. She’s got clarity where others have style boards. I’m a big big fan.[/QUOTE]
Her demand is about to skyrocket. Coogler is a true auteur and an incredible "get" for Marvel.
I really think he's going to end up as Spielberg, Scorcese, Tarrantino, or Lee. Just one of those directors whose names ring out.
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3486374]You say that, but literally every article is centered around how the women stole the show, what Killmonger represents, or the implication of Wakanda as a whole.
If the elevation of one lead to the elevation of another, we'd see just as much about T'Challa. Or alternatively, we wouldn't complain about T'Challa being a side character in Coates's book. But neither of those are the case. Even when I ask non-comic fans IRL (who also loved the movie), they agree T'Challa's role seemed muted.
He honestly stood out more in Civil War - though it wasn't for any deep reason, of course. Again, mainstream attention shows that people aren't seeing him like the people here did. So what's the disconnect?[/QUOTE]
People talk about the other elements, because drankly there's more to talk about. BP probably handled their supporting cast better than any other marvel movie, a feat made more impressive by the sheer size of the cast.
It's not like no one is talking about the BP character, but rather that people are talking about a lot of the other stuff too. But ultimately they all make each other look good. Again, these aren't elements working against each other but rather with each other. It's not a contest to see who can get more attention ... they are all on the same side. People being drawn to Shuri or Killmonger or whatever just means there's more to the franchise than JUST T'Challa, and That's a good thing.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3486438]Always coming through. Thanks Dboi. Issue three looks promising.[/QUOTE]
Lol. No worries
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[QUOTE=Pulp Fiction;3486439]There are folks calling for scenes with stark, banner, reed and Shuri with T'Challa's name no where to be seen. What timeline are we in that that's a thing?
People are praising nakia and killmonger for their strong ideals whereas T'Challa is portrayed as indecisive for 3 quarters of the movie only to have his rebuttal of killmonger's methods drowned out by a CGI train.
They straight up say okoye is a better fighter in the movie and if they didn't, you would have thought so because all her Korean action scenes where better.
The character was completely undermined by coogler and Co. Those interviews before the movie released talking about how "T'Challa was important to them" and "he'll be inspiring" seem patronizing in retrospect. Other than being king who's told things by others, the movie isn't actually about him at all.[/QUOTE]
There's nothing wrong with the main character being a bit on the indecisive side or whatever. Because it's more his story than anyone, he sort of has to go through his journey start to finish. He changed at the end of the movie because he's the one whose development they are primarily concerned with.
Plus he just lost his dad, and later found out his dad is kind of as @$$ . That will get in your head a little.