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:)
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2323287][B][U]I should clarify, I know he won't write Bp like Priest or Hudlin's, but I want him to come around and be liked as much as Priest and Hudlin's Panther was, which means taking some of those aspect's and applying it to his version.[/U] Which we are seeing some trace's of Priest's Panther with Being ahead of Stane in the last 2 issues. Most Likely though, Liss Panther is probably the closest Coates Panther would come to, Liss had T'Challa being more reactive initially in his run Then he went on the offensive as the story progressed.
And I expect the same Thing here, only problem is that Liss Panther was radio shack and was badass, Coates NEEDS to show Panther is badass when he is backed by his nation too, it doesn't matter if it's not his style as it comes down to respecting continuity.
Even if he is a fan of Hickman's version, he still needs to respect that there is more to T'Challa then his recent tragedies the befell Wakanda and he isn't a guy thrown into a position he didn't want especially since there are multiple on panel showings that say otherwise.
He still needs to show us why we should root for T'Challa, and he is showing a little more now but he still has a ways to go [/B][/QUOTE]
Perhaps I'm pessimistic on this one, but I don't think we'll even get the underlined, based on his previous comments.
Also...
[QUOTE][B]
And I expect the same Thing here, only problem is that Liss Panther was radio shack and was badass, Coates NEEDS to show Panther is badass when he is backed by his nation too, [U]it doesn't matter if it's not his style as it comes down to respecting continuity.[/U][/B][/QUOTE]
One thing that stood out from the Coates Q&A at the comic book store a few months back was Coates opinions about changes via reboots. To paraphrase, he's not a fan of going that approach and much prefers using continuity to make those changes. Which, imho, is exactly what he's doing with the BP franchise almost across the board.
We've seen the changes in T'Challa's approach and demeanor already, with in-continuity reasons given. Some like/accept the changes (and the reasons behind them), some don't.
We're seeing changes in Wakanda itself (and major changes appear on the horizon), with in-continuity reasons given. Some like/accept the changes (and the reasons behind them), some don't.
We'll soon see changes in some of T'Challa's supporting cast, (the Doras and Shuri, in particular) with in-continuity reasons given, once again. Some will like/accept the changes (and the reasons behind them), some won't.
In short, he's mostly using continuity for a lot of the stuff he's doing, but either is interpreting things different than many expected and/or is going a direction that can be deemed unfavorable by several longtime readers.
The big question is, will the "new" T'Challa and "new" Wakanda receive positive feedback at the conclusion of seasons 1 and the start of season 2. We'll find out soon.
[QUOTE=Rumble;2323457]Very true, that was a fun storyline. BP was supposed to get a protege at some point iirc and I also heard that some of the vintage characters would be popping up in season 2 of Coates run, so maybe Vibraxis and QDJ may reappear soon.[/QUOTE]
[B]Coates confirmed in a tweet that QDJ is coming in season 2[/B]
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2323540]Perhaps I'm pessimistic on this one, but I don't think we'll even get the underlined, based on his previous comments.
Also...
One thing that stood out from the Coates Q&A at the comic book store a few months back was Coates opinions about changes via reboots. To paraphrase, he's not a fan of going that approach and much prefers using continuity to make those changes. Which, imho, is exactly what he's doing with the BP franchise almost across the board.
We've seen the changes in T'Challa's approach and demeanor already, with in-continuity reasons given. Some like/accept the changes (and the reasons behind them), some don't.
We're seeing changes in Wakanda itself (and major changes appear on the horizon), with in-continuity reasons given. Some like/accept the changes (and the reasons behind them), some don't.
We'll soon see changes in some of T'Challa's supporting cast, (the Doras and Shuri, in particular) with in-continuity reasons given, once again. Some will like/accept the changes (and the reasons behind them), some won't.
In short, he's mostly using continuity for a lot of the stuff he's doing, but either is interpreting things different than many expected and/or is going a direction that can be deemed unfavorable by several longtime readers.
The big question is, will the "new" T'Challa and "new" Wakanda receive positive feedback at the conclusion of seasons 1 and the start of season 2. We'll find out soon.[/QUOTE]
[B]I understand the pessimism and im really just shouting into the wind here as i hope that he does something that long time (and newish but appreciative of the works of Priest/Hudlin/Liss) fans can enjoy. Basically its a big slap in the face to say "Yea Long time fans probably aren't gonna like my panther" Essentially isn't gonna cut it. Maybe if it was a 12 issue then done, but for doing 5 years worth 60 issues? Yea no you gotta throw long time fans a bone here thats BS. Also when he is using "In-Continuity" changes for these things he is also ignore other parts to achieve this. The Dora's for instance yes in priests run they were wives in training which also Priest addressed, it was made clear several times over that they are more so royal guards to the king aIn no way did T'Challa see them as his personal Harem. Yet coates can't wrap his head around it? Chnages in Wakanda go against what is being shown everywhere else in the MU, T'Challa is being shown differently everywhere else. I mean unless his story completely stays within the Borders of Wakanda for the entirety of his run on BP then something is gonna have to give.
I just hope Coates sees that the majority of writers see T'Challa VERY differently then he apparently does and i don't want the " Reluctant Scientist warrior king who was forced into a job he didn't want" to be the new status quo. No thanks [/B]
[QUOTE=Mavric1919;2323479]In the last Ms. Marvel book her best friend is leaving to go to school in Wakanda, they have some unresolved issues, I can see this happening.[/QUOTE]
That's what prompted me to ask.
Storm as the Black Panther:
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[QUOTE=N'Dare;2322898]As a funny lovable nonthreatening castrated Frankenstein Fan Favorite monster, yeah right. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]
Yes, truly there is nothing ore heinous than a man who was horribly maimed in an accident walking around thanks to prosthetics. What abomination has science wrought?
[QUOTE=nj06;2323747]Storm as the Black Panther:[/QUOTE]
By way of the Bride Of Frankenstein? ;)
Finally got to the comic shop. Hulk 10 was goid, but I've been waiting however long it's been since Thanos Quest came out til now to see T'Challa face Thanos. Awesome! I would have liked physical stuff between the two, showing off the BP martial skills, and more dialog, showing off more BP brain power, but I am very happy. Take notes Coates ! You need a crib sheet on how T'Challa do!
[QUOTE=N'Dare;2322898]As a funny lovable nonthreatening castrated Frankenstein Fan Favorite monster, yeah right. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]
So black characters are only legit if they're threatening?
Good luck with your bad-ass African king and his rape camps.
Is your boy even getting a movie? Or did DC cancel that for a Titans movie?
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2323662][B]I understand the pessimism and im really just shouting into the wind here as i hope that he does something that long time (and newish but appreciative of the works of Priest/Hudlin/Liss) fans can enjoy. Basically its a big slap in the face to say "Yea Long time fans probably aren't gonna like my panther" Essentially isn't gonna cut it. Maybe if it was a 12 issue then done, but for doing 5 years worth 60 issues? Yea no you gotta throw long time fans a bone here thats BS. Also when he is using "In-Continuity" changes for these things he is also ignore other parts to achieve this. The Dora's for instance yes in priests run they were wives in training which also Priest addressed, it was made clear several times over that they are more so royal guards to the king aIn no way did T'Challa see them as his personal Harem. Yet coates can't wrap his head around it? Chnages in Wakanda go against what is being shown everywhere else in the MU, T'Challa is being shown differently everywhere else. I mean unless his story completely stays within the Borders of Wakanda for the entirety of his run on BP then something is gonna have to give.
I just hope Coates sees that the majority of writers see T'Challa VERY differently then he apparently does and i don't want the " Reluctant Scientist warrior king who was forced into a job he didn't want" to be the new status quo. No thanks [/B][/QUOTE]
Coates never wrote T'challa to see the Dora Miljae as his personal Harem. In fact for the most part T"challa hasn't even addressed how he feels about Ayo and Aneka because he's been so busy trying to stop Tehtu and Zenzi. Not all long time fans hate the book, I know I don't. As for Coates run being focused solely in Wakanda, I'm actually ok with that because in other runs Priest, Hudlin, Liss, Maberry, while some of them were ok and some of them were fantastic! None of them really dealt with Wakanda and the people of the Nation as much as they could have. On top of that Coates came in on the book in a time when most of T'challa's supporting cast had been wiped out, so there needed to be new characters, and they needed panel time so that you emotionally invested. For instance, if Changamire bowed down at T'challa's feet and praised the monarchy people would have a fit because he's had enough characterization to the point that we know this is out of character. It's predictable too based on the recent reveals by Zeke Stane, that Ayo and Aneka won't side with Tehtu and Zenzi because they've had enough panel time that the reader knows that while they don't support T'challa's rule they would never sell out Wakanda they way Tehtu did, and what about Ramonda? Will she still be for loving the people after almost having her face blown off? These are things that elevate the Story of Black Panther as a whole. It's also retained readers because as I stated before they become emotionally invested, and they want to know not only what's going to happen to the characters but what is their dynamic with T'challa going to eventually be.
I like the current formula the way it is. Outside of Coates's book let's show T'challa the Kick ass super hero I.e. Hulk, Civil War II, Ultimates , Etc. But in Black Panther's ongoing let's see the King, let's see Wakanda. T'challa can't deal with threats in Wakanda they same way he deals with Threats in the Ultimates, and Hulk , because they are two totally different playing fields. Outside of Wakanda T'challa's expected to be ruthless and kick ass, but dealing with Wakanda Internally he's got to handle things with a lot more tact.
[QUOTE=FIFTY-TWO (52);2322880]I wouldn't underestimate Cyborg. He's been a fan favorite with a generation of kids and is featured on a daily basis on a highly rated animated show.[/QUOTE]
With the right marketing and the right approach for the character, Cyborg can definitely be viable. He's def a fan favorite in Teen Titans, both the old and most recent show.
Thing is, DC has to believe in the character and make serious moves to give Cyborg that push.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2324344]With the right marketing and the right approach for the character, Cyborg can definitely be viable. He's def a fan favorite in Teen Titans, both the old and most recent show.
Thing is, DC has to believe in the character and make serious moves to give Cyborg that push.[/QUOTE]
They believe in him enough to get him a spot in the Justice League movie (and presumably a solo movie). That's as serious as as a push as you're gonna.
[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2324328]Coates never wrote T'challa to see the Dora Miljae as his personal Harem. In fact for the most part T"challa hasn't even addressed how he feels about Ayo and Aneka because he's been so busy trying to stop Tehtu and Zenzi. Not all long time fans hate the book, I know I don't. As for Coates run being focused solely in Wakanda, I'm actually ok with that because in other runs Priest, Hudlin, Liss, Maberry, while some of them were ok and some of them were fantastic! None of them really dealt with Wakanda and the people of the Nation as much as they could have. On top of that Coates came in on the book in a time when most of T'challa's supporting cast had been wiped out, so there needed to be new characters, and they needed panel time so that you emotionally invested. For instance, if Changamire bowed down at T'challa's feet and praised the monarchy people would have a fit because he's had enough characterization to the point that we know this is out of character. It's predictable too based on the recent reveals by Zeke Stane, that Ayo and Aneka won't side with Tehtu and Zenzi because they've had enough panel time that the reader knows that while they don't support T'challa's rule they would never sell out Wakanda they way Tehtu did, and what about Ramonda? Will she still be for loving the people after almost having her face blown off? These are things that elevate the Story of Black Panther as a whole. It's also retained readers because as I stated before they become emotionally invested, and they want to know not only what's going to happen to the characters but what is their dynamic with T'challa going to eventually be.
I like the current formula the way it is. Outside of Coates's book let's show T'challa the Kick ass super hero I.e. Hulk, Civil War II, Ultimates , Etc. But in Black Panther's ongoing let's see the King, let's see Wakanda. T'challa can't deal with threats in Wakanda they same way he deals with Threats in the Ultimates, and Hulk , because they are two totally different playing fields. Outside of Wakanda T'challa's expected to be ruthless and kick ass, but dealing with Wakanda Internally he's got to handle things with a lot more tact.[/QUOTE]
Except that T'Challa on a base level would handle the threats with more finesse. More skill. Coates has not demonstrated that at all. T'Challa has more internal resources than Coates has been able to deliver. And, he has delivered his narrative in the most boring manner when considering a comic book narrative.
[QUOTE=MouserGrey;2324461]Except that T'Challa on a base level would handle the threats with more finesse. More skill. Coates has not demonstrated that at all. T'Challa has more internal resources than Coates has been able to deliver. And, he has delivered his narrative in the most boring manner when considering a comic book narrative.[/QUOTE]
Lack of internal reasources is easy enough to explain since Wakanda is in a state of decline. It's sort of a plot point in the story.
Plus, it's not all that uncommon that T'Challa doesn't show all his resources to deal with problems. A lot of the time it's frankly just him.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324470]Lack of internal reasources is easy enough to explain since Wakanda is in a state of decline. It's sort of a plot point in the story.
Plus, it's not all that uncommon that T'Challa doesn't show all his resources to deal with problems. A lot of the time it's frankly just him.[/QUOTE]
[B]No it would be easy to explain. If he actually SHOWED it. But Coates didn't, he came Into this story skipping over the most important parts. How Wakanda hot to that point. He had to explain it out if the book why T'Challa acted so hum drum, and why Wakanda is bad. That's bad story telling if you have to keep explaining important part info outside of the book constantly.
Difference though is yes T'Challa usually doesn't have to throw all his resources at it because he is CAPABLE on his own to handle it. Coates is making a point to show he needs all these resources that he doesn't have and he is struggling horribly.[/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2324584][B]No it would be easy to explain. If he actually SHOWED it. But Coates didn't, he came Into this story skipping over the most important parts. How Wakanda hot to that point. He had to explain it out if the book why T'Challa acted so hum drum, and why Wakanda is bad. That's bad story telling if you have to keep explaining important part info outside of the book constantly.
Difference though is yes T'Challa usually doesn't have to throw all his resources at it because he is CAPABLE on his own to handle it. Coates is making a point to show he needs all these resources that he doesn't have and he is struggling horribly.[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the upside of an 8 month time gap. You can jump ahead to a new status quo without needing to show it in real time. Not unlike how Spidey is suddenly taken running Parker Industries out of the Blue, or how Sunspot took over AIM. Or how Latveria is in another revolution. Or even Hickman having Wakanda recover from it's economic woes it suffered from Doom War in like 4 panels of dialogue in FF back in the day. Most writers don't consider those sort of details that important... it's just exposition to get out of the way so we can see the characters respond to the new status quo. That's the bread and butter of it all.
That said, World of Wakanda goes back in time quite a bit... all the way to Hickmans run. So for those who want such details, they'll likely get more of it there.
But honestly I'm not sure those details are really that important to the story.
[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2324328]Coates never wrote T'challa to see the Dora Miljae as his personal Harem. In fact for the most part T"challa hasn't even addressed how he feels about Ayo and Aneka because he's been so busy trying to stop Tehtu and Zenzi.[/QUOTE]
Then where exactly are Ayo and Aneka getting these feelings of being in his personal Harem if Coates' T'Challa has never been seen treating them as such? Who was Aneka talking to when she said this (a serious question as I have no idea since I did not read issue #6)?
[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2324328]Not all long time fans hate the book, I know I don't. [U]As for Coates run being focused solely in Wakanda, I'm actually ok with that because in other runs Priest, Hudlin, Liss, Maberry, while some of them were ok and some of them were fantastic! None of them really dealt with Wakanda and the people of the Nation as much as they could have.[/U][/QUOTE]
Focusing on Wakanda is something I like and I was happy about it when I got the vibe that it was what Coates wanted to do with his story. However, I personally like to think there is a difference between focusing on and building on the things fans love about Wakanda and focusing and building on Wakanda while simultaneously destroying what fans know about Wakanda and inventing new things solely for the purpose of telling a story you know how to and want to tell. I also personally like to believe Coates is doing the latter.
[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2324328][U]and what about Ramonda? Will she still be for loving the people[/U] after almost having her face blown off? These are things that elevate the Story of Black Panther as a whole. It's also retained readers because as I stated before they become emotionally invested, and they want to know not only what's going to happen to the characters but what is their dynamic with T'challa going to eventually be.
Are you talking about the people, AKA citizens of Wakanda or The People, the rebel group led by Tetu and Zenzi? It was the latter that orchestrated the bombings that almost killed her, and Ramonda was talking about T'Challa loving [I]his own people[/I] because apparently, he does not. What that is based on, I have no idea.
[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2324328]I like the current formula the way it is. Outside of Coates's book let's show T'challa the Kick ass super hero I.e. Hulk, Civil War II, Ultimates , Etc. But in Black Panther's ongoing let's see the King, let's see Wakanda. T'challa can't deal with threats in Wakanda they same way he deals with Threats in the Ultimates, and Hulk , because they are two totally different playing fields. Outside of Wakanda T'challa's expected to be ruthless and kick ass, but dealing with Wakanda Internally he's got to handle things with a lot more tact.[/QUOTE]
Unless Coates' T'Challa is explicitly stated to [I]not[/I] be T'Challa of Earth-616 then I do not like or agree with this so called formula. Why exactly can't T'Challa handle the situations the same way? His appearances outside his own book show him thinking ahead and coming up with useful strategies to solve his problems or the problems of those who he is with, but he somehow can't be that same person while he is home? What exactly is stopping T'Challa from using the same strategic and ruthless mind to end the work of The People, other than the fact that Coates simply does not want him to. I don't think T'Challa has handled a single thing so far with tact. He hasn't tried reaching out to the Midnight Angels. So far his way of handling everything seems to be "they hit me, I hit them back". Maybe this has changed in issue #6 but considering I've chosen to no longer read Coates' story, I won't know.
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2324603]Then where exactly are Ayo and Aneka getting these feelings of being in his personal Harem if Coates' T'Challa has never been seen treating them as such? Who was Aneka talking to when she said this (a serious question as I have no idea since I did not read issue #6)?
[/QUOTE]
Just because an antagonist in a story says something doesn't mean the author agrees, or that the antagonist is right. Often in fiction, when the reverse is true.
I do think there's a grain of underlying truth to what the MA said. If you're a 16 year old girl taken from your home and trained to be a bodyguard/wife in training for political reasons I do think it's justifiable feel somewhat exploited to some degree. It's a pretty messed up system if you think about it.
But overall, it's the norm to twist the truth and say bad things about someone you're trying to inspire others to risk their lives revolting against. The Dora's arent' going to convince women to throw their lives away kicking a nice guy off the thrown. PR and propoganda play a part on this sort of thing.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324418]They believe in him enough to get him a spot in the Justice League movie (and presumably a solo movie). That's as serious as as a push as you're gonna.[/QUOTE]
Hopefully they go beyond just that. Or else he would yield enough results to justify his presence in the JL in the long term, especially if they want him to compete with Black Panther.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324610]Just because an antagonist in a story says something doesn't mean the author agrees, or that the antagonist is right. Often in fiction, when the reverse is true.
I[U] do think there's a grain of underlying truth to what the MA said. If you're a 16 year old girl taken from your home and trained to be a bodyguard/wife in training for political reasons I do think it's justifiable feel somewhat exploited to some degree. It's a pretty messed up system if you think about it.[/U]
But overall, it's the norm to twist the truth and say bad things about someone you're trying to inspire others to risk their lives revolting against. The Dora's arent' going to convince women to throw their lives away kicking a nice guy off the thrown. PR and propoganda play a part on this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]
One thing I wondered: do the Doras have a choice on whether or not they join the order? Or is it strictly up to said Doras' parents and the tribe chief? I'm not sure if the Priest run addressed that. I could be wrong.
[QUOTE=FIFTY-TWO (52);2324310]So black characters are only legit if they're threatening?
Good luck with your bad-ass African king and his rape camps.[/QUOTE]
My description of Cyborg as nonthreatening had more to do with his power-set being threatening over the other leaguers than the rape camp you compared him with. If he works for you it's :cool: i used to be in to Cyborg too but i've gotten over the imagery he stands for when he became one of the league. At least the audience will know that they'll be watching a dick-less brother probably the tagline will be "It's Safe No Rape Here" and in the Justice League his arc might just be "Hoke's Driving White Folks"
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2324617]Hopefully they go beyond just that. Or else he would yield enough results to justify his presence in the JL in the long term, especially if they want him to compete with Black Panther.[/QUOTE]
I think a part of the problem is that some may simply not want him in the Justice League. Many (myself included) associate him more as a Titan. Sort of like when Wolverine was an Avenger. A lot of X-Men fans (understandably) felt he's an X-Men character and he was being taken away from the franchise to some degree, even though Logan was doing double duty.
EIther way he's getting a movie and a big push. Not sure whether or not he'll be able to compete with Black Panther as DC movies in general have done a so-so job of competing with their marvel counter parts even with their bigger name franchise players. But we'll see.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324594]That's the upside of an 8 month time gap. You can jump ahead to a new status quo without needing to show it in real time. Not unlike how Spidey is suddenly taken running Parker Industries out of the Blue, or how Sunspot took over AIM. Or how Latveria is in another revolution. Or even Hickman having Wakanda recover from it's economic woes it suffered from Doom War in like 4 panels of dialogue in FF back in the day. Most writers don't consider those sort of details that important... it's just exposition to get out of the way so we can see the characters respond to the new status quo. That's the bread and butter of it all.
That said, World of Wakanda goes back in time quite a bit... all the way to Hickmans run. So for those who want such details, they'll likely get more of it there.
But honestly I'm not sure those details are really that important to the story.[/QUOTE]
[B]They are actually VERY important to the story. Especially considering that Sw ended vastly different with Wakanda being at the forefront of taking the World to the Stars again, and then all of a sudden there is this unexplained revolution and Wakanda is in this terrible decline? Yea he should probably explain that or better yet, he shouldn't have started his run with it and instead had this be the 2nd or third season story. It would make way more Sense. [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2324645][B]They are actually VERY important to the story. Especially considering that Sw ended vastly different with Wakanda being at the forefront of taking the World to the Stars again, and then all of a sudden there is this unexplained revolution and Wakanda is in this terrible decline? Yea he should probably explain that or better yet, he shouldn't have started his run with it and instead had this be the 2nd or third season story. It would make way more Sense. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, but the thing about how Secret Wars ended is that the scene in Wakanda occured BEFORE the Incursions began. It happened before all the bad things which eventually led to Wakanda's decline. A nation being destroyed back to back multiple times can believably be in a state of decline. Anyone that wants to see why Wakanda declined in greater detail after that scene in CW can reread Hickmans run.
Beyond that, you just don't want to fill your book with that sort of exposition. Especially for a first issue. SOME hardcore BP fans may find that sort of thing interesting, but the average comic book reader probably won't find a story about the countries economic decline all that compelling a narrative. It's exposition... it's necessary for the storytelling, but really that sort of thing is usually left to bullet points.
It's the equivalent of the scrolling words flying through space at the start of the Star Wars movie. Mosts readers understand it well enough, and those that absolutely need more to understand what's going on can get it elsewhere without bogging down the first issue with even more exposition than we already got.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324610]Just because an antagonist in a story says something doesn't mean the author agrees, or that the antagonist is right. Often in fiction, when the reverse is true.
I do think there's a grain of underlying truth to what the MA said. If you're a 16 year old girl taken from your home and trained to be a bodyguard/wife in training for political reasons I do think it's justifiable feel somewhat exploited to some degree. It's a pretty messed up system if you think about it.
But overall, it's the norm to twist the truth and say bad things about someone you're trying to inspire others to risk their lives revolting against. The Dora's arent' going to convince women to throw their lives away kicking a nice guy off the thrown. PR and propoganda play a part on this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]
Yes I know. I'm just wondering where it is coming from. I mean, who exactly is she lying to then (seriously)? Maybe I should read the issue, but from my knowledge there is no such instance of the Dora Milaje being used other than being bodyguards.
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2324658]Yes I know. I'm just wondering where it is coming from. I mean, who exactly is she lying to then (seriously)? Maybe I should read the issue, but from my knowledge there is no such instance of the Dora Milaje being used other than being bodyguards.[/QUOTE]
Simply put it's coming from a place of convenience and need.
A lot of these women were taken advantage of in rape camps. Telling people that the Dora's were exploited by the government (and again you can argue there is a grain of truth to that) is a good way to convince these women to essentially risk their lives against a nearly impossible rebellion.
The MA are merely taking advantage of the situation and using it to suit their agenda. Which is not to say there isn't SOME truth to what they are saying and doing... to some degree they may well believe what they are doing is right. But more than anything they're saving their own butts as they're wanted murderers and traitors who will likely be executed by the government if they are caught. A rebellion is the only chance for them to stay out of a pine box, and the narrative they're feeding these women is exactly what needs to be said to achieve that goal.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324622]I think a part of the problem is that some may simply not want him in the Justice League. Many (myself included) associate him more as a Titan. Sort of like when Wolverine was an Avenger. A lot of X-Men fans (understandably) felt he's an X-Men character and he was being taken away from the franchise to some degree, even though Logan was doing double duty.
EIther way he's getting a movie and a big push. Not sure whether or not he'll be able to compete with Black Panther as DC movies in general have done a so-so job of competing with their marvel counter parts even with their bigger name franchise players. But we'll see.[/QUOTE]
Being in the Justice League is a great look. Though I understand some preferring that he's with the Teen Titans, he's now around the top characters of the DCU. Now, its a matter of showing and re-enforcing why he's part of the group. I think it can work out, if done right.
I thought the Cyborg movie wasn't happening in the end. Is it still a go?
[QUOTE=XPac;2324655]Yeah, but the thing about how Secret Wars ended is that the scene in Wakanda occured BEFORE the Incursions began. It happened before all the bad things which eventually led to Wakanda's decline. A nation being destroyed back to back multiple times can believably be in a state of decline. Anyone that wants to see why Wakanda declined in greater detail after that scene in CW can reread Hickmans run.
Beyond that, you just don't want to fill your book with that sort of exposition. Especially for a first issue. SOME hardcore BP fans may find that sort of thing interesting, but the average comic book reader probably won't find a story about the countries economic decline all that compelling a narrative. It's exposition... it's necessary for the storytelling, but really that sort of thing is usually left to bullet points.
It's the equivalent of the scrolling words flying through space at the start of the Star Wars movie. Mosts readers understand it well enough, and those that absolutely need more to understand what's going on can get it elsewhere without bogging down the first issue with even more exposition than we already got.[/QUOTE]
[B]No. He didn't reset to before everything happened, otherwise instead of seeing Wakandas alpha flight. They would of seen the incursion again. All the events still happened the first time, but when he reset everything It didn't happen again otherwise Wakanda would of been destroyed. Thanos wasn't even there to lead the invasion because Ultimates showed he was stuck outside of everything. So No it actually doesn't make sense where his Story starts. And you can give very important details to Wakandas decline without a ton of exposition, how? Showing then out out fires, it provides action and shows what's going on, and then ON PANEL the characters, not the writer explain what's going on. I know your trying to excuse the bad writing and all but it was a very poor choice in how we started into this story. Again if the writer has to Keep explaining things outside the book that we didn't see then he didn't do his job right [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2324669][B]No. He didn't reset to before everything happened, otherwise instead of seeing Wakandas alpha flight. They would of seen the incursion again. All the events still happened the first time, but when he reset everything It didn't happen again otherwise Wakanda would of been destroyed. Thanos wasn't even there to lead the invasion because Ultimates showed he was stuck outside of everything. So No it actually doesn't make sense where his Story starts. And you can give very important details to Wakandas decline without a ton of exposition, how? Showing then out out fires, it provides action and shows what's going on, and then ON PANEL the characters, not the writer explain what's going on. I know your trying to excuse the bad writing and all but it was a very poor choice in how we started into this story. Again if the writer has to Keep explaining things outside the book that we didn't see then he didn't do his job right [/B][/QUOTE]
Hickman could have shown Wakanda rebuilding itself after Doom War. Instead he choose to simply have T'CHalla say Wakanda recovered in a few panels and moved on. Because that wasn't the story.
Just as Wakanda's decline isn't the story. He didn't go into detail and he didn't NEED to go into detail about it because most writers understood things well enough without him having to do that. Bad things happens, and the country declined... a common end result to bad things happening. You may have WANTED more detail... but it wasn't necessary. Just like it wasn't necessary to show Latveria declining after Secret Wars or Sunspot taking over AIM in Time Runs Out. Readers were obviously able to follow the story just fine without it, because frankly knowing that bad stuff happened was all they really needed to know to follow the story. The background stuff might be interesting to some, but it wasn't vital information for the narrative.
Again, it's something you personally wanted to see. But that's not the same thing as it being something necessary for the story. In the comics medium things like that are handled in bullet points all the time, because you often don't want to waste the panel time on exposition which can be handled in a few panels of dialogue. You don't necessarily have the space you do in a say a novel or a TV series. Like movies, you sometimes get through the exposition as quickly and as efficiently as possible to keep the mometum going.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324703]Hickman could have shown Wakanda rebuilding itself after Doom War. Instead he choose to simply have T'CHalla say Wakanda recovered in a few panels and moved on. Because that wasn't the story. [/Quote]
[B] Hickman had no obligation to write that because he was writing a FF story not a Black Panther Solo so That point is moot[/B]
[Quote]Just as Wakanda's decline isn't the story. He didn't go into detail and he didn't NEED to go into detail about it because most writers understood things well enough without him having to do that. Bad things happens, and the country declined... a common end result to bad things happening. You may have WANTED more detail... but it wasn't necessary. Just like it wasn't necessary to show Latveria declining after Secret Wars or Sunspot taking over AIM in Time Runs Out. Readers were obviously able to follow the story just fine without it, because frankly knowing that bad stuff happened was all they really needed to know to follow the story. The background stuff might be interesting to some, but it wasn't vital information for the narrative. [/Quote]
[B]Yes he didn't need to go into detail we Have seen he didn't, however there were a ton of people asking what was going on and why was T'Challa depressed looking and where was the Wakandan military and all the resources. The simple fact that Coates had to do interviews and comic store sit downs to explain what T'Challa was doing and how the MA were supposed to look like cops abusing their power showed he did need to give details. You keep trying to compare Sw things but those aren't as big as Wakandas revolution because the entire story is focusing on the after event's of the past few years and the Sw ending had a complete different path that was 100% ignored for this story that hasn't done a good job of explaining what happened. I'm not the only one who felt that way since Coates heard enough people asking to have to feel the need to explain what happened. Again he didn't need a panels upon panels of exposition, show panels of them taking on these fires that weren't mentioned at all, and that's all the expo you need.[/B]
[Quote]Again, it's something you personally wanted to see. But that's not the same thing as it being something necessary for the story. In the comics medium things like that are handled in bullet points all the time, because you often don't want to waste the panel time on exposition which can be handled in a few panels of dialogue. You don't necessarily have the space you do in a say a novel or a TV series. Like movies, you sometimes get through the exposition as quickly and as efficiently as possible to keep the mometum going.[/QUOTE]
[B]It's something alot of people wanted to see Hence why he got bombarded so much with people asking wtf happened and why he had to do so much explaining, again he didn't have to explain it but comics are visual mediums and it means much more to show it Rather then tell in an outside interview. Because years from now when people talk about his run they are gonna ask "how did Wakanda get to that state,? There are no on panel showings" and what people will say well the writer did interviews about what happened. That's idiotic especially because comics are about seeing on panel either by characters saying what's happening or the characters experiencing it and the readers visually seeing it.
Just because your okay with the poor application if how Coates tackled this doesn't make you the majority [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2324764][B] Hickman had no obligation to write that because he was writing a FF story not a Black Panther Solo so That point is moot[/B]
[B]Yes he didn't need to go into detail we Have seen he didn't, however there were a ton of people asking what was going on and why was T'Challa depressed looking and where was the Wakandan military and all the resources. The simple fact that Coates had to do interviews and comic store sit downs to explain what T'Challa was doing and how the MA were supposed to look like cops abusing their power showed he did need to give details. You keep trying to compare Sw things but those aren't as big as Wakandas revolution because the entire story is focusing on the after event's of the past few years and the Sw ending had a complete different path that was 100% ignored for this story that hasn't done a good job of explaining what happened. I'm not the only one who felt that way since Coates heard enough people asking to have to feel the need to explain what happened. Again he didn't need a panels upon panels of exposition, show panels of them taking on these fires that weren't mentioned at all, and that's all the expo you need.[/B]
[B]It's something alot of people wanted to see Hence why he got bombarded so much with people asking wtf happened and why he had to do so much explaining, again he didn't have to explain it but comics are visual mediums and it means much more to show it Rather then tell in an outside interview. Because years from now when people talk about his run they are gonna ask "how did Wakanda get to that state,? There are no on panel showings" and what people will say well the writer did interviews about what happened. That's idiotic especially because comics are about seeing on panel either by characters saying what's happening or the characters experiencing it and the readers visually seeing it.
Just because your okay with the poor application if how Coates tackled this doesn't make you the majority [/B][/QUOTE]
Anyone wondering why T'Calla looked depressed got their answer in the final page of the first issue.
Overall giving bullet points is typical stuff for comics in terms first issue. Issue 1'a getting bogged down with too much exposition is the kiss of death for new readers. Sure long time readers want more info .... but you're not just writing the first issue for them. Getting bogged down with an info dump on Wakanda recession isn't necessarily the best way to get new readers to stick around. It's not just a Coates thing ... mist comic book issue ones try and operate the same way.
But you're right ... just because I'm fine with Coates not going into greater detail of Wakanda'a decline doesn't mean I'm the majority. However, I would argue the overall success of the book is a reasonable indicator that the audience as a whole is okay with what they got.
Like anything really some people liked it and some didn't. Coates doesn't need to get everyone to like it. Just enough to keep the lights on.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324798]Anyone wondering why T'Calla looked depressed got their answer in the final page of the first issue.
Overall giving bullet points is typical stuff for comics in terms first issue. Issue 1'a getting bogged down with too much exposition is the kiss of death for new readers. Sure long time readers want more info .... but you're not just writing the first issue for them. Getting bogged down with an info dump on Wakanda recession isn't necessarily the best way to get new readers to stick around. It's not just a Coates thing ... mist comic book issue ones try and operate the same way.
But you're right ... just because I'm fine with Coates not going into greater detail of Wakanda'a decline doesn't mean I'm the majority. However, I would argue the overall success of the book is a reasonable indicator that the audience as a whole is okay with what they got.
Like anything really some people liked it and some didn't. Coates doesn't need to get everyone to like it. Just enough to keep the lights on.[/QUOTE]
[B]They actually didn't get their answer because the question was asked about after issue 1 about issue 3 or so was when he finally answered. You get saying bogged diwb with exposition but your missing what in saying. You don't Give a ton of exposition. You show what happens. Show T'Challa and the Dora's putting down a violent exchange. Priests Did it in his first Wakandan border wars issue and he didn't go into a ton of expo, why? Because pictures are worth a 1000 words that ls why.
And people have to accept it but he still needs to leave showing is better then telling and that's how you Keep people long term otherwise they get bored due to lack of visuals and a ton of talking [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2324823][B]They actually didn't get their answer because the question was asked about after issue 1 about issue 3 or so was when he finally answered. You get saying bogged diwb with exposition but your missing what in saying. You don't Give a ton of exposition. You show what happens. Show T'Challa and the Dora's putting down a violent exchange. Priests Did it in his first Wakandan border wars issue and he didn't go into a ton of expo, why? Because pictures are worth a 1000 words that ls why.
And people have to accept it but he still needs to leave showing is better then telling and that's how you Keep people long term otherwise they get bored due to lack of visuals and a ton of talking [/B][/QUOTE]
At the end of issue one we'really told his sister is still dead and he'said unable to revive. Anyone who can't understand why he'said depressed under those circumstances probably isn't trying to hard to figure it out.
But maybe you're right and people will get bored with Coates storytelling. It's certainly unconventional in a lot of ways for a comic book and that can be a strength or a weakness. We'll see.
[QUOTE=XPac;2324470]Lack of internal reasources is easy enough to explain since Wakanda is in a state of decline. It's sort of a plot point in the story.
Plus, it's not all that uncommon that T'Challa doesn't show all his resources to deal with problems. A lot of the time it's frankly just him.[/QUOTE]
What I should have said was personal resources to draw upon. I was up all night cooking and I like beer when I cook and I was up all night cooking and I like beer when I cook......Anyway, sorry for my poor choice of words. T'Challa just simply has more skills in his own body, regardless of the "distractions" to draw upon and has been written in a more sophisticated way for thus to be believable or entertaining. Seriouly, read one issue of Priest, one of Hudlin, one of Hickman, one of Coates, repeat in that order for six issues and ask yourself if Coates is writing the same character as the other dudes. Coates may be following the continuity as far as the tragedy wrought upon T'Challa and his kingdom, but he substituted a different character to act the part.
[QUOTE=nj06;2323747]Storm as the Black Panther:
[CENTER][IMG]http://pre06.deviantart.net/bbd2/th/pre/i/2016/099/e/c/black_storm_by_williamfocus-d9yd3nq.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
I'm rolling my eyes
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2324344]With the right marketing and the right approach for the character, Cyborg can definitely be viable. He's def a fan favorite in Teen Titans, both the old and most recent show.
Thing is, DC has to believe in the character and make serious moves to give Cyborg that push.[/QUOTE]
Sadly that push is at the expense of others, to DC pushing Cyborg means no other black characters need a bump up right now
[QUOTE=XPac;2324841]At the end of issue one we'really told his sister is still dead and he'said unable to revive. Anyone who can't understand why he'said depressed under those circumstances probably isn't trying to hard to figure it out.
But maybe you're right and people will get bored with Coates storytelling. It's certainly unconventional in a lot of ways for a comic book and that can be a strength or a weakness. We'll see.[/QUOTE]
[B] Obviously not as there were a ton of people talking about it on top of where were the military and all of Wakandas resources as well as where his intelligence is at (techno jungle is still around) alot if unanswered questions he had to address. So no its not laziness on the readers side. Without on panel showings it's speculation.
Thr two things Coates needs to work on which are absolutely key in comics are visually showing and settling things on panel and action, he can obviously write a compelling story, but he needs to also not let the story or his agenda dictate a characters actions that completely go against in continuity attributes[/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2325007][B] Obviously not as there were a ton of people talking about it on top of where were the military and all of Wakandas resources as well as where his intelligence is at (techno jungle is still around) alot if unanswered questions he had to address. So no its not laziness on the readers side. Without on panel showings it's speculation.
Thr two things Coates needs to work on which are absolutely key in comics are visually showing and settling things on panel and action, he can obviously write a compelling story, but he needs to also not let the story or his agenda dictate a characters actions that completely go against in continuity attributes[/B][/QUOTE]
Again, if someone can't understand why a guy who sister is still dead is depressed, the problem is more on then than the story. You don't need a panel explaining why it's depressing that one's sister is dead. If one can't understand why a dead sister is depressing then I'm not sure a panel from Coates could help that understand it. That's probably one of those things you'll have to figure out on your own without comics books.