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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3741660]Normally, I hate when new writers come in and ignore the previous writers work.
But I can't think of a single addition to the Wakandan mythos Coates has brought that is worth keeping. Not one.
The fact that he's mostly just gotten rid of stuff that actually worked and replaced it with dumb #### obviously heavily impacts that though.[/QUOTE]
Well, Coates immediately ignores his own stuff the very next arc so... probably won't be too big of an issue for another writer.
Between ignoring his own **** and bringing people back to the mythos with no explanation whatsoever (I guess Okoye has been on vacation for 10 years?)... ain't much going to stick.
Probably just the absorbing suit thanks to the movies.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3741699]Well, Coates immediately ignores his own stuff the very next arc so... probably won't be too big of an issue for another writer.
Between ignoring his own **** and bringing people back to the mythos with no explanation whatsoever (I guess Okoye has been on vacation for 10 years?)... ain't much going to stick.
Probably just the absorbing suit thanks to the movies.[/QUOTE]
It is sort of the norm for the next writer to ignore the previous one in the BP franchise, so I don't think anyone would exactly be shocked if it happened again.
Not a fan of that practice personally, but at this point I'm used to it.
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[COLOR="#000080"]The story is stupid for reasons that MoS explained.
Wakandans worship Storm elevating to a goddess [B][U][I]in the pages of the BP solo.[/I][/U][/B]
So when the average Wakandan opens up the next issue of X-Men Blue and reads that Storm was either knocked unconscious, couldn't stop a mutant below her power level or being wallpaper again, their goddess is going to come across like a chump.
Or they will ask, "Why don't the X-Men worship Storm so that she can defeat Mastermind? They must be heretics"[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3741718]It is sort of the norm for the next writer to ignore the previous one in the BP franchise, so I don't think anyone would exactly be shocked if it happened again.
Not a fan of that practice personally, but at this point I'm used to it.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]The same writer shouldn't ignore stuff he wrote only a few months ago.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3741391]The people of the world are aware of what happened with the incursions, correct? Are they aware of what specifically stopped them? Are they aware of the narrative that happened on battle world? Because when T'Challa wielded the infinity gauntlet he was a god and saved theultiverse. Why do the Wakandans not see him as at least a demi god? ( I mean besides Coates writing). As the chosen of Bast T'Challa saved their butts. The whole earth's butts. But I don't recall anyone posting anything acknowledging his or any of the other hero's contributions. So Storm saved Wakanda from Adversary. So what. T'Challa saved Storm, Adversary, and everyone else from multiversal destruction. But no props from his fellow Wakandans on panel. Smfh.[/QUOTE]
This post will no doubt fly over the heads of most Coates endorses.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3740945]Bast is a part of a pantheon of gods, so belief in more than one is an aspect of it. Unlike judeo Christian beliefs, which cite there being only one true god. So they can theoretically believe in Storm and Bast and multiple other gods. [/QUOTE]
Actually, according to Coates, Bast was a Wakandan "pilgrim" who helped invade another country, and got the same power-up Storm did....
Unlike, you know, every other pantheon in Marvel, who are descendants of the Demiurge....
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3741732][COLOR="#000080"]The story is stupid for reasons that MoS explained.
Wakandans worship Storm elevating to a goddess [B][U][I]in the pages of the BP solo.[/I][/U][/B]
So when the average Wakandan opens up the next issue of X-Men Blue and reads that Storm was either knocked unconscious, couldn't stop a mutant below her power level or being wallpaper again, their goddess is going to come across like a chump.
Or they will ask, "Why don't the X-Men worship Storm so that she can defeat Mastermind? They must be heretics"[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
You know, everyone seems happy to talk about what Storm got out of the deal, but I wonder what will happen the next time Wakanda is attacked, and Storm is off fighting the Hellfire Club, the Reavers, or whichever Trask pops up next. Will she fulfill her duty as protector of Wakanda, be torn between her roles, or not even blink?
After all, Wakandan prayer gave her great power... and we all know what that comes with... right Pete?
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[QUOTE=XPac;3741412]I believe the narrative is that Reed and the future foundation sacrificed themselves to save the multiverse.[/QUOTE]
And this negates T'Challa's use of the Infinity Gauntlet to reset the Incursion how?
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Oh, and for future discussion:
[url]https://www.previewsworld.com/Article/215193-Exclusive-Marvel-PREVIEWS-Prevue-Black-Panther-2[/url]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3740491][B] Except they were. Just regular people who rose to the occasion and turned into heroes who became gods through faith... I know stupid retcon but it Also show's that storm isn't a special case, just some bad Storm fanfic from the writer instead of actually being creative [/B][/QUOTE]
Where does it state anywhere in the scans you provided that the pilgrims that ascended to becoming gods were "just regular people"? O'roro as I have explained was not "just a regular" person. She has latent mystical abilities with an ancestor who was Sorceress Supreme during the time of Atlantis, she is a potential omega-level mutant, her bloodlines goes back to the dawn of humanity (white-haired women), and she was actually worshiped as a goddess in Kenya. She was exceptional and these qualities were unique. I don't think it would be a stretch to say the same about the original Wakandans who were able to ascend as well, especially when there is no proof that they were baseline humans.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3740603]Claremont is entitled to write whatever he chooses.
That in no way justifies Coates altering the BP mythos to elevate a side character over T'challa and Wakanda in his own solo book.
It's usually the established practice for writers to build up titular characters in their own solo books as evidenced by what occurs in other characters solos put out by Marvel.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, elevating everyone but T'challa in his own book seems to be acceptable.
I wonder why that is?[/QUOTE]
The point of showing the scan wasn't to justify whatever Coates decided to take T'challa within his book. It was to point out the fact that O'roro has been hinted as being an actual goddess way back when Claremont wrote her and counter the argument that she was always written as just a mutant. I don't think anyone is saying it's acceptable or not acceptable. Me personally, I think T'challa's journey is a "to be continued" as there is no telling where Coates will have him go and end as it relates to his power, status as king, and place within the MU; this story, his journey is still an ongoing tale.
[QUOTE=XPac;3740868]We're still seeing a lot of those elements though.
He didn't use science to beat Adversary, but he did use science to beat Klaw. So he used both, which fits the character.
I'll agree King of the Dead isn't used much... though frankly it was NEVER used much. And I will agree that force push does somewhat neuter the martial arts aspects of the character... it's frankly the reason I have a problem with it. Tech replacing skill. With the force push, you don't need to block or dodge most opponents. It almost makes more sense to take a hit against lower end threats at least. [/QUOTE]
Please bring truth and light to this discussion!!!!
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3740985]It is a bunch of crap though. It would create a 100% crisis of faith believing in a human like Storm, who has shown to never really help Wakanda in the past.
Like T'challa narrates in the beginning... the Orisha were there for numerous conflicts, a lot of them recent. Storm has only been around for SWAD (where she was secondary to T'challa) and then the recent story.
She has attacked Wakanda almost as many times as she's protected it (AvX).
And what happens when they see their God on the ground, knocked out on Youtube on her X-Men adventures? What happens when the tabloids talk about her numerous recent boyfriends?
Imagine waking up, checking out your daily reddit forums, and see your god knocked the F out by some X-men foe. What then? What happens when your all powerful god, protector of Wakanda, gets f'd up by some mutant with powers? How safe would you feel? How protected would you feel? How could you have ANY faith at all after that?
Of course, being "realistic" only matters to people when it is propping up Storm. but when you mentioned the negative aspects of having a HUMAN being worshipped as a god... it goes silent. Storm has very human choices and mistakes. It is a dangerous game to have you "god" be a living, breathing, walking god.
Is there any chance Coates examines that part of it? Of course not, because it wouldn't prop Blue up.[/QUOTE]
Are we being serious here? Storm has never really been shown to help Wakanda in the past? Let's see we have helping Wakanda during the alien invasion in Priest's story, her protecting Wakanda and their/her king when Wakanda was invaded by Skrulls, when Doom attacked Wakanda, when Death threatened to kill T'challa, etc.
She didn't attack Wakanda when she snuck in to Wakanda. That mission was always about finding Hope and taking her so that they (Xmen) could handle Phoenix. Now Tchalla and his crew (led by Captain America) did invade Utopia and attacked the Xmen preemptively without him alerting his wife.
The same thing will happen as it does with those followers of Thor who see him go through phases of being worthy and unworthy: they continue to believe in him. His followers still believe in him, and their faith empowers him right? Why do things work for Thor but somehow it would be unbelievable for the same to happen with O'roro? Let's not be unfair here. Thor has human characteristics as well such as being jealous, angry, vindictive, and not the brightest bulb; however, he is still worshiped and his followers have faith in him as a god. The things you mentioned that would be "negative" would only hold weight for those who didn't truly believe her power to begin with, which clearly is not the case of the Wakandans who had faith in her to defeat Adversary.
[QUOTE=XPac;3741026]Storm has helped Wakanda in the past. She saved Wakanda from the Shadow King in Worlds Apart for example.
And again, she has been referred to as a goddess prior to Coates run.
BUt yes, T'Challa did have to do set this whole thing up ahead of time to make this work. He planned right from the start to positon her to appeal as a goddess to the Wakandans, which not only was his weapon against the Adversary but also was a convenient way to get Wakanda and Storm on the same page again so he wouldn't have any problems dating her. Fences needed to be mended, so he was effectively killing 2 birds with one stone.
Would Wakandan have faith in a goddess that sometimes loses? THat's a fair question. But on the flip side you can also ask whether you'd have more faith in a goddess who got knocked down but gets back up, or a goddess like Bast who hasn't shown up to the fight at all for the last 3-4 catastrophies? To be blunt, faith in Bast at this point nets you nothing. Faith in Storm will literally save you. Literally. It's a case of helping her try to help them.
As from as Storm being human and making mistakes... in the MU at least, I'd trust a competent hero over 99% of the gods out there anyday. Thor is more the exception than the rule. Being a god in the MU doesn't mean you're infallible or anything like that... it just means you're powerful and you've lived a long time. Plenty of gods are just as flawed as any random guy you will meet on the street. Plenty are LESS deserving than a lot of heroes. Granted I'd put Bast on the more positive end of the spectrum of gods we've seen in the MU but still... it's not like she's around to offer a better alternative to Storm at the moment. If you're Wakanda and Storm is here and Storm is at least TRYING then I think certainly see the upside in giving her your support.[/QUOTE]
QFT!!!
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3741164]Why was the Shadow King there again?
For Storm. Only because of Storm. Bast even said so. Doesn't coutn as a save if you are the cause lol
That isn't how faith in a god or religion works. You have faith she is there. You have faith that things are happening for a reason. You praise her when things go right because "she was there with us." That is the crux of religion... you place your faith in a God you can't see or hear.
Bast, as far as I've read, has never made herself seen to "normal" people. Of the people still alive in Wakanda, only T'challa, Shuri, Storm, and Ramonda have ever truly seen her. The rest of the Wakanda population acts on faith in there god.
That is what I am getting at. Coates has changed the whole nature of religion in Wakanda. And he changed it just for ONE character that isnt' even part of the mythos. They don't have to act on faith... they SEE storm. Everywhere. All over the world. He has changed the whole belief system in Wakanda. That is a HUGE change done just so Storm gets a moment.
There is also huge story potential there but, it won't likely get touched on because it will make Storm look bad (just like it makes Thor and other Gods look bad when writers use the "prayer" storylines). If someting goes wrong in Waknada... Wakandans don't have to go, "Bast allowed this for a reason..." they go, "STORM WHERE THE F WERE YOU MY FAMILY ALL DIED!"[/QUOTE]
Thor makes himself "seen" to his followers correct?? Is he not a God because he doesn't operate with his followers as Bast does with hers?
And the story of the Wakandan gods is still ongoing. We don't know what happened to them or why the disappeared. It is way to early to declare Coates has changed Wakanda's religion simply because they have a new god as represented by the Hadari Yao.
[QUOTE=XPac;3741615]Again, it's a different sort of faith. Not faith that she exists, because she obviously does. But faith that she can protect them.
It's different than the judeo Christian beliefs, which flat out state there is only 1 god. Bast is already part of a pantheo, so they already believe in the existence of multiple gods.
And it's the avatar of Bast telling them to do it, so it's not entirely even a complete departure from who they worshipped before. It's Basts too person telling them to have faith in Storm too.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!
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[img]https://www.previewsworld.com/news_images/215193_1229398_1022.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.previewsworld.com/news_images/215193_1229399_1023.jpg[/img]
Tchalla I know things are tough but dont you dare give up on the last memory you have of who you were. Ororo is the last thing that connects you to home keep fighting and please never forget she is forever yours!!!
[img]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_original/qoyto9cmeqtloa7kgmoc.jpg[/img]
sn: preview art is gorgeous
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Butterflykyss, Storm bringing the X-Men into Wakanda during AvX was an attack.
End of.
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Yeah... the last thing I am going to do is get into an argument with zealots who ignore on panel stuff when convenient and keep on arguing anyway.
The comparison to Thor is faulty because Thor is an actual god that has been alive for centuries. Not 30 years.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3741799]Butterflykyss, Storm bringing the X-Men into Wakanda during AvX was an attack.
End of.[/QUOTE]
Yeah... one of the characters threw a punch and yelled a screamed and threw rings. The other character, well, didn't.
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3741756]Oh, and for future discussion:
[url]https://www.previewsworld.com/Article/215193-Exclusive-Marvel-PREVIEWS-Prevue-Black-Panther-2[/url][/QUOTE]
The art is going to carry this book.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3741732][COLOR="#000080"]The story is stupid for reasons that MoS explained.
Wakandans worship Storm elevating to a goddess [B][U][I]in the pages of the BP solo.[/I][/U][/B]
So when the average Wakandan opens up the next issue of X-Men Blue and reads that Storm was either knocked unconscious, couldn't stop a mutant below her power level or being wallpaper again, their goddess is going to come across like a chump.
Or they will ask, "Why don't the X-Men worship Storm so that she can defeat Mastermind? They must be heretics"[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
God's sometimes lose fights. It happens. Third a god, and on occasion he'll get beat or whatever. Being a god doesn't mean she's perfect or unbeatable.
And Seen don't worship Storm for the same reason the Avengers don't wordhuo Thor. They're co-workers. That would just be weird.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3741744]Actually, according to Coates, Bast was a Wakandan "pilgrim" who helped invade another country, and got the same power-up Storm did....
Unlike, you know, every other pantheon in Marvel, who are descendants of the Demiurge....
You know, everyone seems happy to talk about what Storm got out of the deal, but I wonder what will happen the next time Wakanda is attacked, and Storm is off fighting the Hellfire Club, the Reavers, or whichever Trask pops up next. Will she fulfill her duty as protector of Wakanda, be torn between her roles, or not even blink?
After all, Wakandan prayer gave her great power... and we all know what that comes with... right Pete?[/QUOTE]
Despite being a pilgrim or whatever, Bast is still a part of a Pantheon which consists of multiple gods.
But how that for a with the Egyptian god mythology is obviously confusing. What happens when you retcon a retcon. A lot of that needs clarification at some point.
As for Storm having other duties, yeah that potentially is an issue. It was when she was queen, as we saw in worlds apart. And occasionally it's a problem for t'Challa.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3741476]
This is like if America decided to pray to Thor and forsake Jesus.
[/QUOTE]
[I]I resemble that remark :)[/I]