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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;361856]Image: [url]http://i42.tinypic.com/102m5h0.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
OH this reminds me...
It's been nearly a year of New Avengers and this latest issue marks the FIRST time the marriage has been referenced, and notice it wasn't done in a spiteful or trollish manner. No shots were taken at Storm or the X-Men, it was just brought up as something he sacrificed for the good of Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;361963]OH this reminds me...
It's been nearly a year of New Avengers and this latest issue marks the FIRST time the marriage has been referenced, and notice it wasn't done in a spiteful or trollish manner. No shots were taken at Storm or the X-Men, it was just brought up as something he sacrificed for the good of Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
I thought I was the only one who noticed that. LOL!
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;361963]OH this reminds me...
It's been nearly a year of New Avengers and this latest issue marks the FIRST time the marriage has been referenced, and notice it wasn't done in a spiteful or trollish manner. No shots were taken at Storm or the X-Men, it was just brought up as something he sacrificed for the good of Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
Yup.
The reverse? Nope. I'm interested if Pak is going to go there. I hope not.
I love "grimdark" so this series and issue is right up my alley.
Does NA #22 ship on the 6th?
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;361982]I thought I was the only one who noticed that. LOL![/QUOTE]
It was actually kind of a deep moment overall.
T'Challa has NEVER broken down like that before. I can count on one hand the number of times he's even lost his cool. That moment was something that's been building for a while.
There's always been a conflict between T'Challa's nobility, morals, and his sense of duty to Wakanda. IT's been a big reason as to why he's consistently been shown to feel as if he can't measure up to his father and other past Black Panther. He's been shown in the past that he's willing to sacrifice everything he holds dear in the world to protect Wakanda but it always weighs heavy on him (even if he refuses to show that to others). What was asked of him today (and who was asking it of him) was just too much.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;362021]Yup.
The reverse? Nope. I'm interested if Pak is going to go there. I hope not.
I love "grimdark" so this series and issue is right up my alley.
Does NA #22 ship on the 6th?[/QUOTE]
I don't think Pak will go the trollish route. It's just something he's never done. He's already brought up the marriage and it was done in much the same way as it was today. I do think you'll see T'Challa and Storm meet up in her book, but I see Pak handling it WAY better than other X-Writers have.
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Yes, the next issue ships next week
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;362076]Yes, the next issue ships next week[/QUOTE]
Great.
Also, It looks like the Next Avengers are working with M. Hill in Avengers World.
I'm interested to see them in action. I actually want to see T'challa meet him.
I would love it if the Next Avengers are treated like the Young Justice (animated show).
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[video=youtube;PirVtiJuvDs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PirVtiJuvDs[/video]
Seriously though, I hope everyone's doing well. I kind of fell off the internet for the past two months.
I wanted to post this link here and see what you think of Feige's answer (the section in question is the 7:20-8:40 mark):
[video]http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/07/27/marvel-studios-president-on-whats-next-comic-con-2014[/video]
That was the first time I think I've heard him acknowledge the demand for both Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
Anyway, I really enjoyed reading T'Challa in today's New Avengers #21. I liked the fact that the crux of the emotional drama was based around T'Challa's interaction with T'Chaka, as that really seems to enforce the idea that this book is centered around him.
In terms of his decision, I'm not sure that I agree with it, but I'm glad he made a decision for himself, rather than for his people. It's rare that he's been allowed to do that.
I do question where this goes narratively, but if everything is marching towards a climax next year, we're approaching that moment in the second act where the protagonists tend to be at their lowest, before they rise up.
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After all this.....I see the need for.......and the reason behind......Happy Pants.
Summon the dancers.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;362053]It was actually kind of a deep moment overall.
T'Challa has NEVER broken down like that before. I can count on one hand the number of times he's even lost his cool. That moment was something that's been building for a while.
There's always been a conflict between T'Challa's nobility, morals, and his sense of duty to Wakanda. IT's been a big reason as to why he's consistently been shown to feel as if he can't measure up to his father and other past Black Panther. He's been shown in the past that he's willing to sacrifice everything he holds dear in the world to protect Wakanda but it always weighs heavy on him (even if he refuses to show that to others). What was asked of him today (and who was asking it of him) was just too much.[/QUOTE]
I think that whole scene was played up a bit too much. Priest's T'challa would had activated that bomb and not blinked, T'challa is now back to how he was in Jungle Action tortured by being a king because of the situations it puts him in and the decisions he has to make.
T'challa has been at the tortured king stage before and it was ok but I wonder if this is the best thing for him going forward.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;362053]It was actually kind of a deep moment overall.
T'Challa has NEVER broken down like that before. I can count on one hand the number of times he's even lost his cool. That moment was something that's been building for a while.
There's always been a conflict between T'Challa's nobility, morals, and his sense of duty to Wakanda. IT's been a big reason as to why he's consistently been shown to feel as if he can't measure up to his father and other past Black Panther. He's been shown in the past that he's willing to sacrifice everything he holds dear in the world to protect Wakanda but it always weighs heavy on him (even if he refuses to show that to others). What was asked of him today (and who was asking it of him) was just too much.[/QUOTE]
but...but
The T'challa has no flaws! That's why we can hate him! :confused:
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[QUOTE=Zuri;362569]I think that whole scene was played up a bit too much. Priest's T'challa would had activated that bomb and not blinked, [B]T'challa is now back to how he was in Jungle Action tortured by being a king because of the situations it puts him in and the decisions he has to make. [/B]
T'challa has been at the tortured king stage before and it was ok but I wonder if this is the best thing for him going forward.[/QUOTE]
You say that like its a bad thing. I liked Priest's run as much as the next poster here but I always wished he had shown more emotion in that run.
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[QUOTE=Zuri;362569]I think that whole scene was played up a bit too much. [B]Priest's T'challa would had activated that bomb and not blinked[/B], T'challa is now back to how he was in Jungle Action tortured by being a king because of the situations it puts him in and the decisions he has to make.
T'challa has been at the tortured king stage before and it was ok but I wonder if this is the best thing for him going forward.[/QUOTE]
This basically is Priest's T'Challa.
Even during Priest's run there were moments where the weight of T'Challa's decisions weighed heavy on him. He had a code of honor that he stuck to.......until his brain aneurysm, then he started to go to more extreme measures.
Before the brain aneurysm he was often shown not taking the most expedient route to protect Wakanda if it meant needlessly endangering innocents.
You also have to keep in mind EVERYTHING he's been through the past 6 years.
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[QUOTE=UltimateTy;362684]You say that like its a bad thing. I liked Priest's run as much as the next poster here but I always wished he had shown more emotion in that run.[/QUOTE]
He did show emotion though.
He would keep it all in until he got to a breaking point. He let it all out during that scene between him and Storm and he did it again during that hallucination where he was talking to Magneto.
This instance was that much worse because of how high the stakes were and the fact that his father was directly involved.
As I said one thing that's been consistent about T'Challa has been his admiration for this father and his insecurities about living up to his father's (and other Black Panthers) legend.
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The point of Happy Pants, to me, was BP saying: screw this, I will honor my duties, but I will live to the fullest. BP has always suppressed his passions for duty.
Happy Pants would be equally dutiful & passionate.
I really want BP to live a little when this is all said & done.
BP needs to get out the shadows of his predecessors, and find comfort in the decisions he makes.
He has spent way too long thinking....what would father do?
He can't walk in their shoes any longer, heck, they left him out in the cold.
I want Happy Pants to team up with Deadpool.
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Part of me actually thinks this may be leading to a more "Happy Pants" version of T'Challa. I think folks forget that Happy Pants was from the future and had gone through something so traumatic that it changed his outlook on life, it wasn't just the brain aneurysm either.
We've also seen more hints lately at T'Challa developing telepathy with how he dealt with Emma Frost in Original Sin.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;362704]He did show emotion though.
He would keep it all in until he got to a breaking point. He let it all out during that scene between him and Storm and he did it again during that hallucination where he was talking to Magneto.
This instance was that much worse because of how high the stakes were and the fact that his father was directly involved.
As I said one thing that's been consistent about T'Challa has been his admiration for this father and his insecurities about living up to his father's (and other Black Panthers) legend.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say he never showed emotion I just said I wish we got more. Two or three instances in a 62 issue run isn't that great.
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[QUOTE=UltimateTy;362734]I didn't say he never showed emotion I just said I wish we got more. Two or three instances in a 62 issue run isn't that great.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't saying you were wrong, I just just elaborating on your point.
One of the good things about pairing him with Storm was that she was able to bring more emotion out of him and poked fun at him when he was trying to be TOO serious.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;362704]He did show emotion though.
He would keep it all in until he got to a breaking point. He let it all out during that scene between him and Storm and he did it again during that hallucination where he was talking to Magneto.
This instance was that much worse because of how high the stakes were and the fact that his father was directly involved.
As I said one thing that's been consistent about T'Challa has been his admiration for this father and his insecurities about living up to his father's (and other Black Panthers) legend.[/QUOTE]
And even there, we got strong hints that T'Chaka might not have been the paragon
T'Challa thought we was.
Example 1: Hunter. Hunter swore up and down that T'Chaka knew about the torture
and assassination he had gotten up to. Tchalla just refused to believe him.
That doesn't mean Hunter was lying.
I always took it for granted that he wasn't.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;362726]Part of me actually thinks this may be leading to a more "Happy Pants" version of T'Challa. I think folks forget that Happy Pants was from the future and had gone through something so traumatic that it changed his outlook on life, it wasn't just the brain aneurysm either.
We've also seen more hints lately at T'Challa developing telepathy with how he dealt with Emma Frost in Original Sin.[/QUOTE]
One of the things Happy Pants kept trying to do was get BP to relax, and enjoy life.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;362696]This basically is Priest's T'Challa.
Even during Priest's run there were moments where the weight of T'Challa's decisions weighed heavy on him. He had a code of honor that he stuck to.......until his brain aneurysm, then he started to go to more extreme measures.
Before the brain aneurysm he was often shown not taking the most expedient route to protect Wakanda if it meant needlessly endangering innocents.
You also have to keep in mind EVERYTHING he's been through the past 6 years.[/QUOTE]
Priest's T'challa never got caught up in "moral problems" like we have seen in NA and He would make sure that the people he liked and were important to him where not negatively affected by his protecting Wakanda but he would always do what was necessary to protect Wakanda including alienating the avengers and ruining his public image. Wakanda came first.
This version of T'challa cannot bear the weight of the crown and allowed a moral fallacy to torment him enough to allow him to let Wakanda and the rest of the world to be destroyed, so this is less Priest's T'challa who seemed to exude nationalism as well as certainty in the rightness of that nationalism and more Mcgregor's panther who was always chafing under the weight of the crown, caught up in moral questions as well as questions about meaning and purpose.
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i think yesterdays issue in the long run may win over more black panther fans...
sometimes when people show their weakness/humanity... yes ill agree with t'chaka and call it weakness... it appeals to some people
so, always happy when panther is involved in something that will attract new fans.... but man, push the damn button and move on with protecting whats important
i thought the great society's world was dead anyways and the only life on it was the GS
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;362726]Part of me actually thinks this may be leading to a more "Happy Pants" version of T'Challa. I think folks forget that Happy Pants was from the future and had gone through something so traumatic that it changed his outlook on life, it wasn't just the brain aneurysm either.
We've also seen more hints lately at T'Challa developing telepathy with how he dealt with Emma Frost in Original Sin.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if "Happy Pants" was from the future where his son is a traitor and his daughter is dead(the 100 page monster issue). Or from a future where that happened even earlier.
That would be enough to cause anybody to snap.
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[QUOTE=Zuri;363589]Priest's T'challa never got caught up in "moral problems" like we have seen in NA and He would make sure that the people he liked and were important to him where not negatively affected by his protecting Wakanda but he would always do what was necessary to protect Wakanda including alienating the avengers and ruining his public image. Wakanda came first.
This version of T'challa cannot bear the weight of the crown and allowed a moral fallacy to torment him enough to allow him to let Wakanda and the rest of the world to be destroyed, so this is less Priest's T'challa who seemed to exude nationalism as well as certainty in the rightness of that nationalism and more Mcgregor's panther who was always chafing under the weight of the crown, caught up in moral questions as well as questions about meaning and purpose.[/QUOTE]
Priest run has T'challa struggle with the burden of the crown and actually had him walk away from it. Priest run was heavily influenced by Panther's Rage. Hickman's T'challa actually pulls that burden issue from Priest--but to Ross point by making it more personable with some humanity and emotion (from T'challa).
T'challa has never faced a threat this dire. A problem he could not solve. But T'challa is probably going to solve the no-win scenario, like Capt. Kirk did. With original thinking and out smarting something. While the cabal will become the greatest mass murders in MI history.
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Another thing. T'chaka was right about mercy. All the things that Namor has done, from leading Thanos to the bombs and pledging and bending his knee to Proxima and sending it against Wakanda. To starting the fight with GS, to joining the cabal. We could end up with a more ruthless T'challa. Had he killed him, some of these things would not have come to pass. Food for thought.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;363750]Priest run has T'challa struggle with the burden of the crown and actually had him walk away from it. Priest run was heavily influenced by Panther's Rage. Hickman's T'challa actually pulls that burden issues--but to Ross point by making it more personable.
T'challa has never faced a threat this dire. A problem he could not solve. But T'challa is probably going to solve the no-win scenario, like Capt. Kirk did. With original thinking and out smarting something. While the cabal will become the greatest mass murders in MI history.[/QUOTE]
This.
If I recall correctly. T'Challa was sitting/sleeping on Kasper couch, bearded and looking... well, hungry. While Kasper 'played' at being BP!
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[QUOTE=TheCat;363791]This.
If I recall correctly. T'Challa was sitting/sleeping on Kasper couch, bearded and looking... well, hungry. While Kasper 'played' at being BP![/QUOTE]
Correct.
Hickman said he read Priest run to write T'challa. But he's doing it with a different angle. I thought the fact that this guy is shown giving up everything to protect Wakanda and be a hero worked well. His breaking down here is no different then his break down to Storm during Strum und Drang. He doesn't want to become a Magneto or Doom and he could.
I'm glad he didn't do it. Freak a speech. Because when they are proved wrong--then what?
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I have read some of the comments of the BP haters. If they already hated BP, this recent story will only solidify their negative opinion.
Some may see this as.....he is finally being humble.
Who knows?
A part of me really feels sorry for BP. As other have stated, he is truly alone, except for Reed.
He can come out of this really stone-hearted like he was during the epic moments of the Priest & Geoff Johns era, or he could go the Happy Pants route.
I am curious to see how this all turns out.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;363819]I have read some of the comments of the BP haters. If they already hated BP, this recent story will only solidify their negative opinion.
Some may see this as.....he is finally being humble.
Who knows?
A part of me really feels sorry for BP. As other have stated, he is truly alone, except for Reed.
He can come out of this really stone-hearted like he was during the epic moments of the Priest & Geoff Johns era, or he could go the Happy Pants route.
I am curious to see how this all turns out.[/QUOTE]
The former. His fathers talk about Mercy and then Namor actions will haunt him. Look at the first scene that was repeated. T'chaka asked him why he was still around and Namor given mercy has causes a lot of pain for him and Wakanda.
I think he might be cold hearted as hell after this.
But like you said, who knows. I just see T'chaka Mercy molding him because more tragedy is coming.
I'm not entertaining the haters at all. Lol
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This whole saga really strengthens why these guys have supporting characters who help humanize them.
No Happy, Pepper, & Rhodey....
No Wong....
No Medusa & the royal family...
No Rick Jones....
Heck, no Everett Ross, Ramonda, etc....
No Sue & Ben....
The folks who would keep these guys grounded, and challenge them to think outside the box when finding solutions, are no where in site.
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It shouldn't be forgotten that the rest of the Illuminati still don't know that Namor pointed Thanos towards Wakanda. I don't think that's going to remain a secret. It also can't be forgotten that Namor and Black Swan have some sort of deal in place.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;363865]This whole saga really strengthens why these guys have supporting characters who help humanize them.
No Happy, Pepper, & Rhodey....
No Wong....
No Medusa & the royal family...
No Rick Jones....
Heck, no Everett Ross, Ramonda, etc....
No Sue & Ben....
The folks who would keep these guys grounded, and challenge them to think outside the box when finding solutions, are no where in site.[/QUOTE]
Great point and observation!
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;363871]It shouldn't be forgotten that the rest of the Illuminati still don't know that Namor pointed Thanos towards Wakanda. I don't think that's going to remain a secret. It also can't be forgotten that Namor and Black Swan have some sort of deal in place.[/QUOTE]
Yes. I got a feeling that all hell is going to break loose he next few issues. You have the Cabal pretty much in Wakanda.
The new Illuminati seems weak in comparison to the Cabal. They need to add Hyperion or something.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;363855]The former. His fathers talk about Mercy and then Namor actions will haunt him. Look at the first scene that was repeated. T'chaka asked him why he was still around and Namor given mercy has causes a lot of pain for him and Wakanda.
I think he might be cold hearted as hell after this.
But like you said, who knows. I just see T'chaka Mercy molding him because more tragedy is coming.
I'm not entertaining the haters at all. Lol[/QUOTE]
Shoot, the haters entertain themselves. Had it been BP who pulled the trigger, those same haters would be posting about how much of a heartless bastard BP is. As it was Namor, some folks are throwing rose pedals at his feet.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;363884]Shoot, the haters entertain themselves. Had it been BP who pulled the trigger, those same haters would be posting about how much of a heartless bastard BP is. As it was Namor, some folks are throwing rose pedals at his feet.[/QUOTE]
Yup. Lol.
I'm not really getting into the back and forth. I'm only mentioning Namor in regard to how the story plays out and how I think it will end. I'll just say, I'm glad T'challa didn't kill billions of people. I'm always thinking about the end game and it doesn't look good for some. I think people are about about Listening to Swan. Cap was right. So these guys should have been trying to pull a Capt. Kirk, instead of blowing up worlds.
I'm excited at the possibility that T'challa will figure it out.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;363819]I have read some of the comments of the BP haters. If they already hated BP, this recent story will only solidify their negative opinion.
Some may see this as.....he is finally being humble.
Who knows?
A part of me really feels sorry for BP. As other have stated, he is truly alone, except for Reed.
He can come out of this really stone-hearted like he was during the epic moments of the Priest & Geoff Johns era, or he could go the Happy Pants route.
I am curious to see how this all turns out.[/QUOTE]
To me this story has been about loss. All of the heroes in it has lost something vital or personal to them. Namor his Throne, T'Challa his family, Dr. Strange his soul...
In FF 604 - 605 Bast said to Reed and us the reader, that T'Challa will need him in this. So I expected T'Challa to lose a 'lot' in this event as well.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;363787]Another thing. T'chaka was right about mercy. All the things that Namor has done, from leading Thanos to the bombs and pledging and bending his knee to Proxima and sending it against Wakanda. To starting the fight with GS, to joining the cabal. We could end up with a more ruthless T'challa. Had he killed him, some of these things would not have come to pass. Food for thought.[/QUOTE]
Another way to look at it is if Tchalla HAD killed Namor they would ALL be dead now and whatever
solution they eventually end up finding would never have come to pass.
Everybody has thier part to play.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;363920]Xxx
Another way to look at it is if Tchalla HAD killed Namor they would ALL be dead now and whatever
solution they eventually end up finding would never have come to pass.[/QUOTE]
Or they would have spent time trying to figure it out, instead of being ambushed by in Necropolis by Thanos goons after he directed them there. They just killed the guys who had beat it time and time again. Maybe they should have talked? Again Hickman has already said hey are wrong, we just don't know why or how.
Why didn't they use the GS version is infinity gems? I forget, but they could have did that.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;363912]Yup. Lol.
I'm not really getting into the back and forth. I'm only mentioning Namor in regard to how the story plays out and how I think it will end. I'll just say, I'm glad T'challa didn't kill billions of people. I'm always thinking about the end game and it doesn't look good for some. I think people are about about Listening to Swan. Cap was right. So these guys should have been trying to pull a Capt. Kirk, instead of blowing up worlds.
I'm excited at the possibility that T'challa will figure it out.[/QUOTE]
BP is pretty low in terms of morale, he can only raise up, now.
I actually wonder if this will be the John Stewart Xanshi, "Pym" or "Starfox" moment for Namor. One moment where a character becomes known for one thing, regardless of the circumstances leading up to it. Will later writers use this story to define Namor as a perpetrator of planetcide?
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[QUOTE=TheCat;363915]To me this story has been about loss. All of the heroes in it has lost something vital or personal to them. Namor his Throne, T'Challa his family, Dr. Strange his soul...
In FF 604 - 605 Bast said to Reed and us the reader, that T'Challa will need him in this. So I expected T'Challa to lose a 'lot' in this event as well.[/QUOTE]
Everyone but that chump, Beast, are taking loses.