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[QUOTE=Xalfrea;2804223][B]But I ain't a gal..[/B].:p
At any rate, Ms. Marvel #18 was very interesting because of the Wakanda setting. Being an issue where the titular character didn't appear at all except in a dream, the setting and the escapades of the book's secondary character in Wakanda had to be very engaging, and the Wakanda design and intrigue of being a fish out of water really helped that. Black Panther's appearance in the last few pages really added to that. Sure it didn't show the King being a badass and all of that, but it showed him as a good authority figure with a huge sense of gravitas and weight with his presence.[/QUOTE]
My bad :o
Miles and Kamala are the two young whippersnappers i'm waiting for BP to finally formally interact with. Because the 2 seconds of panel time in the Carol CWII tie-in don't count!
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2803034]You know your stuff. Props.
As a big John Stewart fan, you outlined many of the problems we've had with DC's management over the years. They straight up tried to assassinate ol boy out the picture by using Simon Baz as a deflection replacement; on some Walking Dead tv show tactic where they kill off a milquetoast black male but introduce a new milquetoast black male to join the cast. Then they put Cyborg on the team b/c they knew they needed a black guy but didn't want to sacrifice Hal for the logical choice, so they sacrificed the green martian instead. Then they patted themselves on the back and went years with Cyborg just being a janitor in the watch tower with nothing to do...up until the DCEU announcements came and fans called them out for not doin ish with Victor but now expecting him to be embraced.
Marvel hasn't been much better, they're just not as stubborn when caught with their pants down (i.e. they would swap out Hal for John in a heartbeat and parade John around as "diversity") but they still got caught with their pants down (all white Avengers, Rhodey/Cheadle nowhere in sight. That Ike guy as well). And yea, we don't gotta fool ourselves with Voodoo or any of the others, he's clearly going to be Stephen's new black friend now that Chiwetel has gone rogue. Monica Rambeau will be Carol's best black friend.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the comment. They expect Cyborg to succeed on his own but haven't put the effort into the character, it's the same as Carol Danvers but she still prominently featured in team books. They're going to be putting black best friends with each of their white heroes and say they're doing it out of so called diversity. The new situation with Spider Man Homecoming is they talk about how diverse their cast is but it still stars white Peter Parker and he's still the main hero. I also think they degraded the character of Rhodey in the movies. He got unusually beat in Civil War. I also think they paralyzed him to not violate the Rule Of 3 (probably why Nick Fury wasn't in it either), but didn't kill him off due to potential back lash due to the similar scenario with black Goliath being killed off and not being really prominent in the story. Not to mention post Infinity War they may have Carol lead the new Avengers despite Black Panther being more qualified. They'll continue to make the black heroes sidekicks to the white heroes.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2803872][B]B-but its all part of the set up. Each person gets their own narrative issue to show their connection to Harlem and why its important to them, Its genius build up..... Is what the apologists will say[/B][/QUOTE]
It is a well-done build up, it's just admittedly not a Black Panther story (technically, there are two scenes with Black Panther if we're quibbling).
[QUOTE=DeathGods;2804133]Wrong place to discuss the book unfortunately lol! [B]Ms. Marvel # 18[/B] had more T'Challa and Wakanda than [B]BP & C[/B] had of either[/QUOTE]
Just to clarify, more Black Panther or more Black Panther + Wakanda? I suspect both are likely true (although I suspect this book will eventually have more overall), but I wanted to clarify.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2804072][B]Oh yeah lets not forget Duke & Fake Wally. Who make the hate X-Men have for Inhumans look tame. Dc has forfeit the battle of black heroes a long time ago.[/B]
BP was chosen as he like Cyborg had no strings to anyone. Unlike Cyborg he got Coates in a gamble as Maj said paid off. Especially with the pandering to black dysfunction.
You are franchising a deformed black male at a time where many view us as the lowest forms of creatures on the planet. Just think about that for a moment. What message does that send?
Marvel did not just give us a Black Panther book as the ONLY black lead book-we got Mosaic, Sam, Miles, Moon Girl, Riri, Luke Cage, Midnight Angles, Nighthawk & Nightbrand.
Marvel gave you variety.
DC refuses to as they ALWAYS do. If Cyborg is suppose to be a franchise-when will it happen? You can't sit and wait for what happens with Black Panther and that movie. Because no one else is waiting.[/QUOTE]
LOL I actually [I]did[/I] forget about Duke. I was more thinking of Black Lightning, Vixen, Waller, Baz, the Odyssesy comic...although I will admit they dropped the ball on Cyborg and Jon Stewart.
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I'm putting Ms. Marvel over The Crew this week. They are different kinds of stories, but I liked Marvel more.
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[B]I'm gonna post this quote from. Another forum Because it's so spot on:
[Quote]So let me get this straight....
Coates "couldn't" ignore a brief period in T'Challa's history where he was a school teacher and insists that T'Challa prefers to be out of Wakanda. He even made it a point to retcon the brilliant idea Priest had about T' Challa joining the Avengers to spy on them. Every interview Coates did he made it a point to tell people that he felt T'Challa felt burdened by Wakanda and he made it a point to dump on T'Challa by saying he never dated Wakandan women (which was untrue.
Now, fast forward to Black Panther & The Crew #2 and Coates not only goes out of his way to ignore Storm's lack of connection to the black community (Harlem in particular), but he outright retcons Storm having a double life where whenever she's not with the X-Men she's in Harlem building relationships with various black folks while incognito.
This proves just how much of a fraud and liar Coates is in relation to his comments being be truthful about the stories he tells, wanting to have complex/flawed characters, and not ignoring ANY history of characters.
He put Storm on a pedestal and made it a point to portray her as the most "Woke" member of the team so far, even at the expense of Misty (who is suddenly "New Black").
I'm not surprised, we've all said we knew he wouldn't crap on Storm the way he did T'Challa, but I am shocked at how blatant he's been about it.
[/quote]
Sums it up pretty well how big a hypocrite Coates is
[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2804647][B]I'm gonna post this quote from. Another forum Because it's so spot on:
Sums it up pretty well how big a hypocrite Coates is
[/B][/QUOTE]
We need some die hard Storm fans to weigh in. Anybody know where we can find one? Or do we need a time machine to the mid 90s
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2804647][B]I'm gonna post this quote from. Another forum Because it's so spot on:
Sums it up pretty well how big a hypocrite Coates is
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's one way of looking at it, from my perspective......
Coates wrote a T'challa that a reader could see themselves in. Not taking anything away from Reggie or Christopher, because those were probably the two best portrayals of T'challa ever. However, Coates left his mark on The Black Panther, by humanizing him. In a way he made T'challa more relatable to the average person. How many times has a person been doing something or got in the routine of something and questioned whether or not they were doing the right thing with their life? How many times has a person taken a couple of L's and had the confidence in their abilities shaken because of it? How many times has somebody tried to live up to the legacy of a parent or an older sibling, despite wanting to go in a completely different path? Those were all things T'challa had to deal with and he essentially conquered them.
Now, fast forward To Black Panther & The Crew #2. Outside of Reggie's run on Civil War: BP I can't remember the last time I really thought of Storm as black. I mean I knew she was black, but I never tied her to black issues. So what do I see when I pick up a book and see Storm ? For that matter what does anybody of color really see , reading a book about Storm? Or Cyborg? Or Duke? Honestly, I see affirmative action, not a Black Super-heroine. BP & The Crew #2 started to change that. Storm had a couple of journeys to Harlem, in super old comic books and it was nice that Coates gave a nod to that by expanding on her history and connection to the place beyond the death of her parents.
He put Storm on a pedestal this issue, he also simultaneously put the world on notice by letting him know that Black Superheroes are still BLACK, and demonstrated that just because they're off fighting villains, doesn't mean they ignore the struggles of their own, and it damn sure doesn't mean they're going to sit on the sidelines and watch it either. NO Black Super hero is too big to help his people, not even the King of the Most technologically advanced Nation on earth. Or an Omega Level Mutant currently whose constantly dealing with the attempted genocide of her species.
So Bravo Coates, for demonstrating in a blatant and downright shocking way that Black Superheroes can be so unapologetically.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2804072]
BP was chosen as he like Cyborg had no strings to anyone. Unlike Cyborg he got Coates in a gamble as Maj said paid off. Especially with the pandering to black dysfunction.
You are franchising a deformed black male at a time where many view us as the lowest forms of creatures on the planet. Just think about that for a moment. What message does that send.[/QUOTE]
The message you are saying depends on the receiver. Kids for the most part just see Boo Yah, and probably wonder where Beast Boy is at.
Cyborg sales are horrid, so there won't be any spin offs and may not even be a series much longer. I think DC wants to have some non Titan related product out there, if the character catches on.
I think Cyborg is an ensemble character who works best as a Titan or a leaguer. Much like Storm.
I would have double down on Milestone, you have a whole universe there to play with, and a hunger for those characters or newer characters that can capture that same magic.
Perfect for franchising.
But maybe like Marvel and Malibu, there are more entanglements.
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[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2804685]That's one way of looking at it, from my perspective......
Coates wrote a T'challa that a reader could see themselves in. Not taking anything away from Reggie or Christopher, because those were probably the two best portrayals of T'challa ever. However, Coates left his mark on The Black Panther, by humanizing him. In a way he made T'challa more relatable to the average person. How many times has a person been doing something or got in the routine of something and questioned whether or not they were doing the right thing with their life? How many times has a person taken a couple of L's and had the confidence in their abilities shaken because of it? How many times has somebody tried to live up to the legacy of a parent or an older sibling, despite wanting to go in a completely different path? Those were all things T'challa had to deal with and he essentially conquered them.
Now, fast forward To Black Panther & The Crew #2. Outside of Reggie's run on Civil War: BP I can't remember the last time I really thought of Storm as black. I mean I knew she was black, but I never tied her to black issues. So what do I see when I pick up a book and see Storm ? For that matter what does anybody of color really see , reading a book about Storm? Or Cyborg? Or Duke? Honestly, I see affirmative action, not a Black Super-heroine. BP & The Crew #2 started to change that. Storm had a couple of journeys to Harlem, in super old comic books and it was nice that Coates gave a nod to that by expanding on her history and connection to the place beyond the death of her parents.
He put Storm on a pedestal this issue, he also simultaneously put the world on notice by letting him know that Black Superheroes are still BLACK, and demonstrated that just because they're off fighting villains, doesn't mean they ignore the struggles of their own, and it damn sure doesn't mean they're going to sit on the sidelines and watch it either. NO Black Super hero is too big to help his people, not even the King of the Most technologically advanced Nation on earth. Or an Omega Level Mutant currently whose constantly dealing with the attempted genocide of her species.
So Bravo Coates, for demonstrating in a blatant and downright shocking way that Black Superheroes can be so unapologetically.[/QUOTE]
Bravo. Great post.The Crew is killing it.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;2804686]The message you are saying depends on the receiver. Kids for the most part just see Boo Yah, and probably wonder where Beast Boy is at.
Cyborg sales are horrid, so there won't be any spin offs and may not even be a series much longer. I think DC wants to have some non Titan related product out there, if the character catches on.
I think Cyborg is an ensemble character who works best as a Titan or a leaguer. Much like Storm.
I would have double down on Milestone, you have a whole universe there to play with, and a hunger for those characters or newer characters that can capture that same magic.
Perfect for franchising.
But maybe like Marvel and Malibu, there are more entanglements.[/QUOTE]
Walker and Semper and their limited scope were the wrong choices for a character like Cyborg.
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[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2804685]That's one way of looking at it, from my perspective......
Coates wrote a T'challa that a reader could see themselves in. Not taking anything away from Reggie or Christopher, because those were probably the two best portrayals of T'challa ever. However, Coates left his mark on The Black Panther, by humanizing him. In a way he made T'challa more relatable to the average person. How many times has a person been doing something or got in the routine of something and questioned whether or not they were doing the right thing with their life? How many times has a person taken a couple of L's and had the confidence in their abilities shaken because of it? How many times has somebody tried to live up to the legacy of a parent or an older sibling, despite wanting to go in a completely different path? Those were all things T'challa had to deal with and he essentially conquered them.
Now, fast forward To Black Panther & The Crew #2. Outside of Reggie's run on Civil War: BP I can't remember the last time I really thought of Storm as black. I mean I knew she was black, but I never tied her to black issues. So what do I see when I pick up a book and see Storm ? For that matter what does anybody of color really see , reading a book about Storm? Or Cyborg? Or Duke? Honestly, I see affirmative action, not a Black Super-heroine. BP & The Crew #2 started to change that. Storm had a couple of journeys to Harlem, in super old comic books and it was nice that Coates gave a nod to that by expanding on her history and connection to the place beyond the death of her parents.
He put Storm on a pedestal this issue, he also simultaneously put the world on notice by letting him know that Black Superheroes are still BLACK, and demonstrated that just because they're off fighting villains, doesn't mean they ignore the struggles of their own, and it damn sure doesn't mean they're going to sit on the sidelines and watch it either. NO Black Super hero is too big to help his people, not even the King of the Most technologically advanced Nation on earth. Or an Omega Level Mutant currently whose constantly dealing with the attempted genocide of her species.
So Bravo Coates, for demonstrating in a blatant and downright shocking way that Black Superheroes can be so unapologetically.[/QUOTE]
yes!!!! you better preach. I'm a thoroughly enjoying what he is doing in bp&c. I hope more people give it a chance.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2802620]Hate to interrupt current discussions with this (considering I'm not as vocal as I used to be on here) but today's the birthday :cool:[/QUOTE]
Just passing by to wish you a Happy birthday, Sir Blind Wedjat!
I want to add also that I love reading this thread especially for the point of view of all you fans of T'challa who live in Africa, or whose families come from there - and, from what I noticed, especially from Nigeria.
[QUOTE=Chesterfield;2803134]My oga, I hear that. As a Nigerian also, it's preposterous hearing some of these asinine assumptions and views people have towards Africa and her people. Many people in Africa speak better English than a good number of actual English people born and raised in Britain![/QUOTE]
The same can be said about French language : the best French I heard in the last two decades was spoken by African ladies and gentlemen. :)
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[QUOTE=DeathGods;2804701]Walker and Semper and their limited scope were the wrong choices for a character like Cyborg.[/QUOTE]
Who knows what kind of gloves that either man has on them. I enjoy Walker's Marvel work except Nighthawk, but the art of that book effected my enjoyment as well. I wouldnt mind seeing Walker take a shot at Kasper.