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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;3196164]was his death done on-panel? No possible "escapes"? (secret passage, etc.)?[/QUOTE]
Given the cosmic cube stuff at the end of Secret Empire, there's a bit of a window to undo some deaths. The end implied that all the deaths still happened, but ya never know.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3196156]I'd say what we saw fits perfectly with the tone and theme of the event. Once the heroes stop fighting each other and actually start working together, they start getting stuff done. And that's what Namor and T'Challa did. Yes, they had every reason in the world to want to kill each other, but given both of them have already lost their people over the conflict what is the point really? Their conflict was pointless death, and rather than continuing it when they frankly had more imporant things to do, they actually did the smart thing and worked together to save the universe. It's what heroes do. Or at least what they should be doing. It just took them a little while to get to that point.[/QUOTE]
[B] Actually when he committed the axt the act actually following through with it, it would of been alot better then what we got. Namor literally survived just to make quips and to throw his spear a couple times. He added nothing else to the story after Tchalla almost killed him. How's that goal post feeling man? Need a break yet[/B]
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;3196164]was his death done on-panel? No possible "escapes"? (secret passage, etc.)?[/QUOTE]
He was shot to death by Hydra whilst out and about (inexplicably) wearing civilian garb.
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[QUOTE=Nate Grey;3196125][IMG]https://media.tenor.co/images/ba1828679029f49a3198af3f0b0765e8/raw[/IMG]
I'm sorry...it happened OFF PANEL???[/QUOTE]
[B] Yep pretty much a small paragraph in passing about how it doesn't matter anymore because they both lost their kingdom. Many people, casuals included went "WTF"
Because it looked like it was going to be a heated Round 2 when a panel Showed they got sent to the same area together [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3196253][B] Actually when he committed the axt the act actually following through with it, it would of been alot better then what we got. Namor literally survived just to make quips and to throw his spear a couple times. He added nothing else to the story after Tchalla almost killed him. How's that goal post feeling man? Need a break yet[/B][/QUOTE]
It's a Herculean effort shifting that thing around. :)
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3196253][B] Actually when he committed the axt the act actually following through with it, it would of been alot better then what we got. Namor literally survived just to make quips and to throw his spear a couple times. He added nothing else to the story after Tchalla almost killed him. How's that goal post feeling man? Need a break yet[/B][/QUOTE]
Depends on your definition of better I guess.
I actually respected the fact that 2 heroes decided to put aside thier differences and work together rather than continuing to fight each other. I'll say again, their pointless conflicted resulted in the deaths of both their people. What was the point really? Was any of it even worth it? They should frankly be embarrassed that it took the death of their people to realize that more important stuff was going on at the time. But in the least, they realized it at the end of the story. And that's the point. Hickman showed us that even 2 people who had every right to want to see the other dead could put aside their own selfish wants to come together to serve the greater good.
You call it a goal post... I think it's the actual goal. THe end game of this story was heroism, not revenge. It was about saving lives, not taking them. Again, that's what heroes do.
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[QUOTE=dkrook;3196074]Majesty, that shook the pillars and tragically oh too true. Every line speaks to a truth that mystifying to comprehend. Starting with the Legacy book, it was laughable that way back in prehistoric times with these forefathers of iconic power emblems and symbols Black Panther was just there ....talking, pointing and posing...wth!!??!! With all the glimpses we're getting into seem to be soft on T'challa. What is being talked up is blah, blah, blah Steve ..blah, blah, blah Tony. Now to suffer the indiganty of seeing Carol being force-fit into the third of the trio that naturally should be Black Panther's. When we clearly see his popularity is setting things up perfectly for Panther to be THE beast sleeper of all marvel movies. He should have Marvel rethinking the importance of him and his realm.[/QUOTE]
They should be. But I doubt they see it that way.
As opposed to MARVEL's business strategy being to integrate him with the rest of the MARVEL comic universe and building him up to the levels of a Bruce Wayne/Tony Stark in terms of importance and thus introducing him to readers of other selling comics to bring even more of an audience to him as a whole, they would rather feel like he shall only attract a certain demographic, and try to keep him in the pages of his solo comic and barely bring him up anywhere else with any significant relevance.
If he is with Storm.. he gets further integrated into the universe as a whole and thus becomes more of a big deal that branches out into not just his own story, but Storm's as well as some X series, But MARVEL doesn't really want to have to do that. They really don't want to make him as big a deal as a Tony Stark or a Bruce Wayne with a James Bond edge. He has ALL the potential and character and rich history that they'd have a goldmine on their hands, but they don't see it that way obviously. The only reason they'd even do that was if they thought they had a gold mine with him, and very obviously they either don't think so, or do but don't want to build him up to those levels anyway even if they think they do.
It's been a similar circle for years.
Heck I don't even think they'd do something that wouldn't even make any sense even if it meant that it would boost BP outside of his own comic.
Anyone see the GOTG stopping by Wakanda anytime soon? Anyone think that sparks could ever fly between T'Challa and Gamora?
Even if it could, and a story could be built around it that made sense and worked, MARVEL won't do it. Even if they could make it happen in the movies because they have both BP and Gamora, they won't. Because again, that opens up BP to appear more often in other series outside his solo comic, and they want to keep him confined to it.
In fact if we're being honest, the only other relationship they'd likely put T'Challa into in the comic if it was a "full time commitment" that they'd green light, would be with another woman in Wakanda, someone that can ONLY appear in his comic and nowhere else. That way they get to do whatever the heck they want with Storm and disconnect them, and any chance he has of branching out of his comic, AS WELL as free her up for whatever relationship they want to throw her into next, while also keeping Black Panther right where they want him to remain... his solo comic.
It's infuriating when you think about it. But it's what Marvel does, and the pattern they've consistently shown.
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[QUOTE=Majesty;3196385]They should be. But I doubt they see it that way.
As opposed to MARVEL's business strategy being to integrate him with the rest of the MARVEL comic universe and building him up to the levels of a Bruce Wayne/Tony Stark in terms of importance and thus introducing him to readers of other selling comics to bring even more of an audience to him as a whole, they would rather feel like he shall only attract a certain demographic, and try to keep him in the pages of his solo comic and barely bring him up anywhere else with any significant relevance.
If he is with Storm.. he gets further integrated into the universe as a whole and thus becomes more of a big deal that branches out into not just his own story, but Storm's as well as some X series, But MARVEL doesn't really want to have to do that. They really don't want to make him as big a deal as a Tony Stark or a Bruce Wayne with a James Bond edge. He has ALL the potential and character and rich history that they'd have a goldmine on their hands, but they don't see it that way obviously. The only reason they'd even do that was if they thought they had a gold mine with him, and very obviously they either don't think so, or do but don't want to build him up to those levels anyway even if they think they do.
It's been a similar circle for years.
Heck I don't even think they'd do something that wouldn't even make any sense even if it meant that it would boost BP outside of his own comic.
Anyone see the GOTG stopping by Wakanda anytime soon? Anyone think that sparks could ever fly between T'Challa and Gamora?
Even if it could, and a story could be built around it that made sense and worked, MARVEL won't do it. Even if they could make it happen in the movies because they have both BP and Gamora, they won't. Because again, that opens up BP to appear more often in other series outside his solo comic, and they want to keep him confined to it.
In fact if we're being honest, the only other relationship they'd likely put T'Challa into in the comic if it was a "full time commitment" that they'd green light, would be with another woman in Wakanda, someone that can ONLY appear in his comic and nowhere else. That way they get to do whatever the heck they want with Storm and disconnect them, and any chance he has of branching out of his comic, AS WELL as free her up for whatever relationship they want to throw her into next, while also keeping Black Panther right where they want him to remain... his solo comic.
It's infuriating when you think about it. But it's what Marvel does, and the pattern they've consistently shown.[/QUOTE]
For what it's worth, he actually is dating Storm right now. We'll see how that goes.
I don't necessarily agree that marvel doesn't want to make T'Challa a player, given he's getting a LOT of exposure as far as cartoons and the movie goes. He's not Iron Man level YET but I think he's building up to that. Give it a year and we'll be seeing toys and halloween costumes right alongside Cap and Iron Man if we're not already.
But I agree that he should be integreted more in comics. Really, I think he ultimately needs to be in a core Avengers team. And I'm guessing that'll happen right around the next Avengers movie if not sooner.
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If BP and Namor had a comic what would it be called?
"Perfect Strangers"/"Enemies of the World"/"Kings of the World"
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[QUOTE=XPac;3196270]Depends on your definition of better I guess.
I actually respected the fact that 2 heroes decided to put aside thier differences and work together rather than continuing to fight each other. I'll say again, their pointless conflicted resulted in the deaths of both their people. What was the point really? Was any of it even worth it? They should frankly be embarrassed that it took the death of their people to realize that more important stuff was going on at the time. But in the least, they realized it at the end of the story. And that's the point. Hickman showed us that even 2 people who had every right to want to see the other dead could put aside their own selfish wants to come together to serve the greater good.
You call it a goal post... I think it's the actual goal. THe end game of this story was heroism, not revenge. It was about saving lives, not taking them. Again, that's what heroes do.[/QUOTE]
[B] Except Namor started it, and in the end, he should of died. Straight up. Ito end the beef off panel and off handedly with a "we have bigger fish to fry" is just dumb.
Namor became a Villain and should if been handled as such [/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3196430]For what it's worth, he actually is dating Storm right now. We'll see how that goes.
I don't necessarily agree that marvel doesn't want to make T'Challa a player, given he's getting a LOT of exposure as far as cartoons and the movie goes. He's not Iron Man level YET but I think he's building up to that. Give it a year and we'll be seeing toys and halloween costumes right alongside Cap and Iron Man if we're not already.
But I agree that he should be integreted more in comics. Really, I think he ultimately needs to be in a core Avengers team. And I'm guessing that'll happen right around the next Avengers movie if not sooner.[/QUOTE]
[B] Every other form of entertainment has fully embraced and is capitalizing on his popularity and exposing him to a broader audience except the comics... Tells you all you need to know about where there priorities are.. Marvel is so busy trying to make Carol a big deal instead of making T'Challa into their Super hero James bond hybrid[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3196502] Except Namor started it, and in the end, he should of died. Straight up. Ito end the beef off panel and off handedly with [B]a "we have bigger fish to fry" is just dumb[/B].
Namor became a Villain and should if been handled as such[/QUOTE]
Especially since the only thing Namor brings to the table is muscle. They can get that anywhere. lol
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[QUOTE=Cville;3196487]If BP and Namor had a comic what would it be called?
"Perfect Strangers"/"Enemies of the World"/"Kings of the World"[/QUOTE]
[B] Marvels Monarchs.
I always thought Priests meeting of the monarchs in Strum Und Drang would of made a good series I thought [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3196502][B] Except Namor started it, and in the end, he should of died. Straight up. Ito end the beef off panel and off handedly with a "we have bigger fish to fry" is just dumb.
Namor became a Villain and should if been handled as such [/B][/QUOTE]
Ending it off panel certainly sucked. But concluding they have bigger fish to fry is hardly dumb, because that assessment is 100% correct. If T'Challa and Namor are hypothetically fixated on trying to kill each other then they can at LEAST wait until after the damn universe is saved.
Really, that's why it HAD to be Namor and T'Challa. As I've said multiple times, they both had every reason in the world to want to kill each other. But if BOTH were able to put aside their own selfish agendas for the greater good, a then any of the rest could. Heroes spent so much of this event needlessly fighting each other... it was simply well past time for that non sense to stop and for the heroes to actually start acting like heroes again. The story hammered in the notion that kings had to be monsters, but in the end the story showed that two kings could come together to be heroes instead.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3196515][B] Marvels Monarchs.
I always thought Priests meeting of the monarchs in Strum Und Drang would of made a good series I thought [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's sort of a shame that Doom War and AvX essentially made the Doom/Black Panther/Namor group a near impossibility. It was a fun concept, but they never were able to really do anything with it.
Still, ya never know. Namor and T'Challa seemed to be in better terms in th later parts of Secret Wars and Doom seems to be on his best behavior these days. Maybe some sort of team up could still happen. Maybe.