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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;3119400]Because of Coates, sales of the first BP issue was HUGE, BP got two more books WOW and BPaTC, and has made the supporting cast more significant.
Coates has consistently made [B]BP more human, more relatable and more understanding[/B].[/QUOTE]
[I]*Chris Evans voice*[/I] : "I'm gonna flip this table bro."
What new trait has Coates added to T'challa that wasn't there before that has made him more relatable?
Civil War and the hype for the new movie got people interested at first not Coates.
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[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;3119954]Because of Pent up demand for a BP solo and Coates reputation as writer with an understanding of proper black representation, sales of the first BP issue were huge. And as Coates agenda was slowly revealed to be that of a non-fan who not only didn’t respect the title character, but couldn’t even wrap his mind around the concept of an Afro-futuristic Kingdom; sales rapidly declined. BP got two more books in WOW and BPaTC that were promptly cancelled due to low sales and being stealth books designed to further Coates agenda of emasculating the title character and diminishing his importance, therefore making the supporting characters more significant by default.
Coates has consistently made BP more pathetic, more inept, and more unworthy[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=phumgano;3119974][I]*Chris Evans voice*[/I] : "I'm gonna flip this table bro."
What new trait has Coates added to T'challa that wasn't there before that has made him more relatable?
Civil War and the hype for the new movie got people interested at first not Coates.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3119484]How do you relate to BP now that you haven't before?
What is it that BP is more understanding of now? Or what didn't you understand about BP before?
Was BP less human before Coates began writing him?[/QUOTE]
Hey guys, come on, layoff storm kid... you know he/she/it probably hasn't read a Black Panther book before Coates.
He/she/it may not have even been alive when they first got married (Whoa)
He/she/it is probably just excited that young Logan is back since that's always been his/her/it's preferred love interest for Storm. (BP was just a distant second option)
Let him/her/it live.
Bast Blessed
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3119974][I]*Chris Evans voice*[/I] : "I'm gonna flip this table bro."
What new trait has Coates added to T'challa that wasn't there before that has made him more relatable?
Civil War and the hype for the new movie got people interested at first not Coates.[/QUOTE]
Different writers had different takes on the character certainly. Hudlin and McDuffie for example had a much more humanized take on the character than Priest (and to a lesser degree Liss).
As for Coates... I think the biggest different in him might be a greater willingness to put his pride aside and get help. That was a weakness that at times the other versions of the character struggled with with. Storm for example mentioned it in Worlds Apart, and Liss had T'Challa struggling with that until the end of his run. Coates T'Challa is more willing to get help and work with others. And it fits the theme of the first season... it wasn't about one man, it was about a nation.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3120014]Different writers had different takes on the character certainly. Hudlin and McDuffie for example had a much more humanized take on the character than Priest (and to a lesser degree Liss).
As for Coates... I think the biggest different in him might be a greater willingness to put his pride aside and get help. That was a weakness that at times the other versions of the character struggled with with. Storm for example mentioned it in Worlds Apart, and Liss had T'Challa struggling with that until the end of his run. Coates T'Challa is more willing to get help and work with others. And it fits the theme of the first season... it wasn't about one man, it was about a nation.[/QUOTE]
You're so intelligent. You got it right. :)
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The fact of the matter is Storm is here to stay. The Marriage was too big to be just ignored by future writers. So everyone might as well make peace with it and hope something great comes of it down the road.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3119850]Was that before or after she decided to continue being an X-Man over her commitment to bring a queen? I've said it before many times; knowing her, he should never have asked her to be his queen. She was always going to choose mutants and the earth over Wakanda. And she doubled down on the mistake by accepting. Story wise and editorial wise was neither wise.[/QUOTE]
this makes absolutely no sense. in saving the earth she then would save wakanda as it's a part of the earth. please give me an instance where storm chose mutants over wakanda outside of avx? accusations like this deserve evidence. it's interesting xfans during the time she was married argues she wasn't there for mutants during times when they needed her because she was off playing queen and BP fans argue the exact opposite. both can't be true. the fact of the matter is that she was there for wakanda when they were attacked by skrulls and fought alongside them, during doomwar, and also even after tchalla annulled the marriage she put aside her feelings to still help the Wakandans.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;3120256]The fact of the matter is Storm is here to stay. The Marriage was too big to be just ignored by future writers. So everyone might as well make peace with it and hope something great comes of it down the road.[/QUOTE]
somebody gets it!!
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[QUOTE=XPac;3120014]Different writers had different takes on the character certainly. Hudlin and McDuffie for example had a much more humanized take on the character than Priest (and to a lesser degree Liss).
As for Coates... I think the biggest different in him might be a greater willingness to put his pride aside and get help. That was a weakness that at times the other versions of the character struggled with with. Storm for example mentioned it in Worlds Apart, and Liss had T'Challa struggling with that until the end of his run. Coates T'Challa is more willing to get help and work with others. And it fits the theme of the first season... it wasn't about one man, it was about a nation.[/QUOTE]
[B]Yep, and he gets help from EVERYONE for the dumbest things. Things he can handle on his own. This isn't a team book, and Tchalla had always been one to handle things himself. Not ask for help for the dumbest things constantly. It diminishes him as a character, and makes him less capable, less interesting, and weak. No one wants to Read about how their favorite character needs help all the time and can't do things on their own. Gay ignorantly and arrogantly said the MA can stand on their own. But Tchalla, who actually can, isn't allowed to and is instead shackled to asking for help.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3120399][B]Yep, and he gets help from EVERYONE for the dumbest things. Things he can handle on his own. This isn't a team book, and Tchalla had always been one to handle things himself. Not ask for help for the dumbest things constantly. It diminishes him as a character, and makes him less capable, less interesting, and weak. No one wants to Read about how their favorite character needs help all the time and can't do things on their own. Gay ignorantly and arrogantly said the MA can stand on their own. But Tchalla, who actually can, isn't allowed to and is instead shackled to asking for help.[/B][/QUOTE]
Sounds like a powerful (and he doesnt have powers or prolly doesnt acknowledge he got better for being favored by their god) selfish, loner, serious robot.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3120003]Hey guys, come on, layoff storm kid... you know he/she/it probably hasn't read a Black Panther book before Coates.
He/she/it may not have even been alive when they first got married (Whoa)
He/she/it is probably just excited that young Logan is back since that's always been his/her/it's preferred love interest for Storm. (BP was just a distant second option)
Let him/her/it live.
Bast Blessed[/QUOTE]
Hahaha! Amen!
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[QUOTE=Ekie;3120256]The fact of the matter is Storm is here to stay. The Marriage was too big to be just ignored by future writers. So everyone might as well make peace with it and hope something great comes of it down the road.[/QUOTE]
And yet the X-Office has managed to ignore the marriage other than times where they want to throw shade. I don't see how the BP office can't do the same, especially when Coates inevitably leaves the franchise (which is hopefully soon).
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3119373]I don't see it as mopey. He is just acknowledging his faults and trying to correct what was done in the past.
lolol.. that's funny.
however Storm is the one true goddess. her powers and bloodties to the divine link back to the beginning of time. Spectrum, as much as I love her, ain't the real thing.
1. Maybe i wasnt reslly clear when i used the term prop. When I say she put herself aside to prop Tchalla, she purposefully at times would not intervene at the personal request of Tchalla and when she would he would reprimand her for it (forcefully so). Im talking about in comtext to the actual story not in relation to impact within pop culture.
2. Access to Wakanda, and it's lands, was very much her right as it was Tchalla's. She was the Queen at that point. Her bringing in her friends to try and find hope wasn't to spite the Wakandans or their people but it was to address the bigger issue which was Phoenix which could have destroyed the world.
3. To your points about the writers this I agree on. Jason Aaron sucks as a writer when it comes to Ororo and every time he does write her he shows his inability to do so. AvX was crap not simply because she had him fighting her husband for no reason imo but also because of how he demonstrated her powers. There is no way Tchalla should have been able to remove her use of powers because if shooting nanites in the air. It was all just dreadful to read.
1. Who was the Nazi she brought in with her? To your point about her betrayal of Wakandan soil, as I mentioned to Marvell as queen she had every right to bring whom she chose to bring. They weren't coming to destory or hurt the Wakandan people. Just as Tchalla when he left Shuri to die was doing that for a bigger cause, so was Ororo when she did what she did.
2. As I said in the past, I don't argue for Coates against the many long time fans here as there are many who agree he isn't doing him justice. That said, I still feel as though this road to redemption was necessary (perhaps it could have been handled differently) considering all that occurred prior to Coates coming on board.
exactly.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to burst your bubble like this but I'm afraid Storm was not Queen of Wakanda during AvX.
Shuri was Queen and as such, my point that Storm betrayed Wakanda stands.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3119457]Dr. Nemesis? I don't even recall that and that sounds like an epic fail if writing to have her even associated with a Nazi.
and thank you![/QUOTE]
It still happened though and firmly in canon.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3119564]thank you and preach. Those who are saying Ororo betrayed Wakanda should understand Tchalla went well beyond anything that she did. However for some reason she is taken to task yet he is forgiven.[/QUOTE]
Most people familiar with my posting history in this thread, know that I have been uncompromisingly scathing in my criticism of T'Challa's character all the way through AvX to Hickman's handling of his thematic trajectory of fail as evidenced in New Avengers and Secret Wars II.
Juxtaposed against this reality, my criticism of Storm will remain just as scathing.
As far as I'm concerned, Shuri was the last Black Panther who represented Wakanda totally and without ambiguity or doubt.
She will always be my Black Panther of choice for as long as Coates Continues to write T'Challa like a chump.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3119813]he struck it first when he built a prison specifically made to house storm.[/QUOTE]
Talk about moving goal posts
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[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;3119954]Because of Pent up demand for a BP solo and Coates reputation as writer with an understanding of proper black representation, sales of the first BP issue were huge. And as Coates agenda was slowly revealed to be that of a non-fan who not only didn’t respect the title character, but couldn’t even wrap his mind around the concept of an Afro-futuristic Kingdom; sales rapidly declined. BP got two more books in WOW and BPaTC that were promptly cancelled due to low sales and being stealth books designed to further Coates agenda of emasculating the title character and diminishing his importance, therefore making the supporting characters more significant by default.
Coates has consistently made BP more pathetic, more inept, and more unworthy[/QUOTE]
And yet, just because he writes Storm properly, some readers celebrate this BP solo (in name only) as being the best thing since sliced bread.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;3120256]The fact of the matter is Storm is here to stay. The Marriage was too big to be just ignored by future writers. So everyone might as well make peace with it and hope something great comes of it down the road.[/QUOTE]
Frak Storm.
T'Challa deserves to move on and embrace someone less likely to serve as a Trojan horse for haters to ride in on.
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Marvel Legacy #1 [spoil]Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda[/Spoil] page
[url]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Image-37-768x1209.png[/url]
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Fact of the matter is mainstream BP doesn't have Storm, she is easily ignores in movies cartoons and games, so we should all make peace with Queen Nakia and 007 T'Chadwick :)
Bast Bless
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[QUOTE=Nyro;3120677]Marvel Legacy #1 [spoil]Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda[/Spoil] page
[url]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Image-37-768x1209.png[/url][/QUOTE]
I am loving what I'm seeing here! Bast bless indeed!
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[QUOTE=Nyro;3120677]Marvel Legacy #1 [spoil]Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda[/Spoil] page
[url]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Image-37-768x1209.png[/url][/QUOTE]
Unfans greatest nightmare.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3120685]Fact of the matter is mainstream BP doesn't have Storm, she is easily ignores in movies cartoons and games, so we should all make peace with Queen Nakia and 007 T'Chadwick :)
Bast Bless[/QUOTE]
Indeed. Coates and unfans will refuse to get with the program but they'll be hopelessly out numbered by people who know the real black Panther and Wakanda by 2018. I'm counting down the days.
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A fucking Planet of Bast is the best continuation of Wakanda after Secret Wars' conclusion but who is going to write it because certainly Coates is incapable of it?
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[QUOTE=Nyro;3120677]Marvel Legacy #1 [spoil]Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda[/Spoil] page
[url]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Image-37-768x1209.png[/url][/QUOTE]
As it should be.
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So it appears we now know where Bast and the other Orishas maybe. Be interesting to see how this ties back to the current arc. Wonder if we are in for a Wakandan invasion. But the name of the city leaves me perplexed
Wish it was more than one page
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[QUOTE=DeathGods;3120753]A fucking Planet of Bast is the best continuation of Wakanda after Secret Wars' conclusion but who is going to write it because certainly Coates is incapable of it?[/QUOTE]
Rape camps Third World stereotypes are all he knows.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3120764]Rape camps Third World stereotypes are all he knows.[/QUOTE]
Don't make me cry now things look hopeful depending on the writer.
[spoil]The Awaken Celestial and those two Wakandan Archaeologists in that cave have me really Hopeful[/Spoil] .
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3120724]Unfans greatest nightmare.[/QUOTE]
This [B]really, really [/B]makes me want to start a new Destiny Clan.
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I would love to see someone write a proper space epic with Black Panther. I want to see crazy spaceships, T'challa riding around shooting lazers on alien dinosaurs, fighting Skrulls, Kree, Dire Wraiths, etc.
Also, I liked that character Wraith from Annihilation: Conquest so put him in it. Also I'm reading all of Starlin's Warlock/Thanos saga so get Warlock in there .
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;3120421]Sounds like a powerful (and he doesnt have powers or prolly doesnt acknowledge he got better for being favored by their god) selfish, loner, serious robot.[/QUOTE]
[B]Your making it very clear you haven't read anything BP related other then Coates mess[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3120860][B]Your making it very clear you haven't read anything BP related other then Coates mess[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh, Bast... save me from these Storm stans, from their faulty logic, from their poor reads of non-complex situations....
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3120876]Oh, Bast... save me from these Storm stans, from their faulty logic, from their poor reads of non-complex situations....[/QUOTE]
All is not lost my brother. Bast and Queen Nakia will bless your resistance in February.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3120014]Different writers had different takes on the character certainly. Hudlin and McDuffie for example had a much more humanized take on the character than Priest (and to a lesser degree Liss).
As for Coates... [B]I think the biggest different in him might be a greater willingness to put his pride aside and get help. [/B]That was a weakness that at times the other versions of the character struggled with with. Storm for example mentioned it in Worlds Apart, and Liss had T'Challa struggling with that until the end of his run. [B]Coates T'Challa is more willing to get help and work with others[/B]. And it fits the theme of the first season... it wasn't about one man, it was about a nation.[/QUOTE]
So...He didn't add anything. He's reluctantly working with Wakandans that took democracy violently from him because he wouldn't give it to them that only villified him and it essentially framed him as aa diet Dr Doom. On top of that, there isn't a single BP story in the past decade that hasn't centred around him having to put his own pride aside for the greater good. Arrogance is a core aspect of his character and writers have been using it as a crutch this entire time. He did it with the Avengers, the Inhumans, the X-Men I could keep going on and on. It's a trend that started in "Wild Kingdom" and it's been happening in the ever since.
Literally, the last story before Coates involves T'challa working putting his pride aside and working with Namo-You know what never mind.
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3120880]So...He didn't add anything. He's reluctantly working with Wakandans that took democracy violently from him because he wouldn't give it to them that only villified him and it essentially framed him as aa diet Dr Doom. On top of that, there isn't a single BP story in the past decade that hasn't centred around him having to put his own pride aside for the greater good. Arrogance is a core aspect of his character and writers have been using it as a crutch this entire time. He did it with the Avengers, the Inhumans, the X-Men I could keep going on and on. It's a trend that started in "Wild Kingdom" and it's been happening in the ever since.
Literally, the last story before Coates involves T'challa working putting his pride aside and working with Namo-You know what never mind.[/QUOTE]
He did give democracy to the Wakandans, and that was after he already put the rebellion. So nothing about that vilified him in the least. The DM got their independence and the Wakandans got the democracy they wanted. Nothing Dr. Doomish about it.
And him needing to work on putting aside his pride certainly is a flaw he'said struggled with in the past. Point being it wasn't something he really struggled with here. Maybe at the very very beginning, but as a whole he's mostly been a non issue here. It shows growth.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3120843]I would love to see someone write a proper space epic with Black Panther. I want to see crazy spaceships, T'challa riding around shooting lazers on alien dinosaurs, fighting Skrulls, Kree, Dire Wraiths, etc.
Also, I liked that character Wraith from Annihilation: Conquest so put him in it. Also I'm reading all of Starlin's Warlock/Thanos saga so get Warlock in there .[/QUOTE]
[B]Lemire writes a Good Thanos, I would be down with that[/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3120895]He did give democracy to the Wakandans, and that was after he already put the rebellion. So nothing about that vilified him in the least. The DM got their independence and the Wakandans got the democracy they wanted. Nothing Dr. Doomish about it.
And him needing to work on putting aside his pride certainly is a flaw he'said struggled with in the past.[B] Point being it wasn't something he really struggled with here.[/B] Maybe at the very very beginning, but as a whole he's mostly been a non issue here. It shows growth.[/QUOTE]
Hypothetically, if I walk up to you and I say "Nice shoes, give them to me?" You say "No". I then I pull out a gun, shoot the person next to you, who just so happens to be your mother and point it at you and ask you again and ask you If I can have the shoes and you finally agree to give them to me. Did you [I]give [/I]me the shoes?
And for the bit in bold, yes he did struggle with it. It cost him a lot of lives in HZ for it and the solicits and Coates himself are saying that he's working reluctantly with them. Hardly an improvement from the Namor situation and it's a downgrade from T'challa's relationship with Fantastic Four, X-men and Avengers.
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;3120421]Sounds like a powerful (and he doesnt have powers or prolly doesnt acknowledge he got better for being favored by their god) selfish, loner, serious robot.[/QUOTE]
For a moment there I thought you had actually read Black Panther books outside of his interactions with Storm. I was so confused but this clears it all up. I thought an actual fan of T'challa was talking lke this.
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/l0Iy69RBwtdmvwkIo/giphy.gif[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3120953]Hypothetically, if I walk up to you and I say "Nice shoes, give them to me?" You say "No". I then I pull out a gun, shoot the person next to you, who just so happens to be your mother and point it at you and ask you again and ask you If I can have the shoes and you finally agree to give them to me. Did you [I]give [/I]me the shoes?
And for the bit in bold, yes he did struggle with it. It cost him a lot of lives in HZ for it and the solicits and Coates himself are saying that he's working reluctantly with them. Hardly an improvement from the Namor situation and it's a downgrade from T'challa's relationship with Fantastic Four, X-men and Avengers.[/QUOTE]
Yes, he gave them dwmocracy. That's the point of the story ... despite outing down the rebellion he was willing to change with the times and give the people what they wanted. They ultimately didn't need to rebell because T'Challa was willing to work with the people to give them the government they wanted. That's why the people behind the coup were the bad guys ultimately.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3120860][B]Your making it very clear you haven't read anything BP related other then Coates mess[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=phumgano;3120978]For a moment there I thought you had actually read Black Panther books outside of his interactions with Storm. I was so confused but this clears it all up. I thought an actual fan of T'challa was talking lke this.
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/l0Iy69RBwtdmvwkIo/giphy.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Hahaha I tried to tell yall.
Cut Storm kid some slack. He/She/It is just here to troll T'Challa fans, until Storm can go back to Logan... or Queen Nakia comes into play... then he/she/it will disappear again.
Bast Bless
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3120876]Oh, Bast... save me from these Storm stans, from their faulty logic, from their poor reads of non-complex situations....[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.thecoli.com/media/camron-praying.101/full[/IMG]