Lowest critical review I think I've seen for Coates.
[url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/09/28/comic-book-reviews-for-september-27-2017?page=2[/url]
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Lowest critical review I think I've seen for Coates.
[url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/09/28/comic-book-reviews-for-september-27-2017?page=2[/url]
[QUOTE=Rumble;3123997]All things considered, that's relatively polite, short and sweet.
"We're glad that you were such a sucker to take us back in, but it's not you.. it's us... well no.. it's actually you, it's always your fault.. but we'll come back to your sorry ass next time its convenient for us. Have a blessed day."
^^ Now that's how they should [I]really[/I] rub it in![/QUOTE]
Yeah that is pretty spot on
[QUOTE=Cville;3123974]And his leeway got him listed as 100 for preorders a couple months ago which is the deciding factor for success. Can't be some kids Spiderman hanging around those levels. So maybe instead of writing something he wants to read he is deciding to writes something BP fans want to read. Its still wait and see at this point.[/QUOTE]
Ultimately, all I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe, that Coates made adjustments along the way while writing and/or editing his script?
We can't one minute roast the man for the many times that he messes up and then automatically assume that editorial interfered when he does something well or appears to be heading towards the right direction, especially without something to back said assertion. Especially since editorial approved all those moments we've complained about and are complaining about.
EDIT: the book is def not as successful as the early parts of season 1 or as successful as it can be, but far from a failure at this point. Still above cancellation area and doing well in other mediums.
[QUOTE=Cville;3124180]Lowest critical review I think I've seen for Coates.
[url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/09/28/comic-book-reviews-for-september-27-2017?page=2[/url][/QUOTE]
It had too much action and not enough chumping
[QUOTE=Cville;3124180]Lowest critical review I think I've seen for Coates.
[url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/09/28/comic-book-reviews-for-september-27-2017?page=2[/url][/QUOTE]
Gotta disagree with this review.
So when Black Panther is written in character it's boring but rape camps and chumping T'Challa are compelling? Can't spell ignorant without IGN.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;3124208]BP #17 sold 25k in floppies and was in the top 10 in the comixology rankings. The book is doing well in other mediums. It's def nowhere close to the numbers of the early parts of season 1 floppy wise, but it's nowhere close to being a failure either.
Ultimately, all I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe, that Coates made adjustments along the way while writing and/or editing his script? We can't one minute roast the man for the many times that he messes up and then automatically assume that editorial interfered when he does something well or appears to be heading towards the right direction, especially without something to back said assertion.[/QUOTE]
[B]Frankly, Im not convinced that anything is getting better, its the same thing that happened in S1 too. He would have 1 or 2 issues sprinkled in that were "Okay" then the next issue goes right back into the same cycle of subpar until the 1 "Okay" issue comes out. I Expect the same thing happening with issue 18[/B]
I find it hilarious that some of the same people who were throwing shade on Wakanda expanding into the stars, are now falling over themselves in awe at Coates suddenly realising that afro-futurism is a thing.
Most actual BP enthusiasts knew this from day one.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3122728][B]I think a careful reading of all the posts would show otherwise[/B]. I think I was the strongest critic and what I said is I didn't think Wakandans would want to leave Wakanda to live somewhere else and I didn't think they would be conquerors. I still stand by my latter point no matter the circumstances and I think the former point needs justification. Wakandan explorers make sense to me, Wakandan settlers raise the question of what motivates them.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]That same consideration wasn't given to those who clarified on numerous occasions, their position on why Wakanda, while having a space program, would seek to colonize habitable planets. One poster in particular repeatedly questioned why Wakanda would depart en masse to the cosmos, leaving behind an abandoned Wakanda. The notion had been rebuked on several instances yet he [U]endeavored to persevere[/U](10 points to anyone who remembers the movie where this line came from) on a point that had already been squashed.
And a point that bears consideration. If Wakanda is so deeply rooted in isolationism as was another one of the counter-argument against colonization, why have a space program in the first place.
As far as Coates is concerned, he's already screwed BP in his run. If he can deliver a truly impressive T'Challa and Wakanda while telling a good sci-fi story with tones of Afro-futurism, I'll be the first to give him credit. You can quote me on that. Until then, my impression of his take of an Intergalactic Wakandan Empire is Lost In Space(old school).[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3124501]I find it hilarious that some of the same people who were throwing shade on Wakanda expanding into the stars, are now falling over themselves in awe at Coates suddenly realising that afro-futurism is a thing.
Most actual BP enthusiasts knew this from day one.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]BCB, my bro it's like this...[/COLOR]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/lbJpOId.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3124501]I find it hilarious that some of the same people who were throwing shade on Wakanda expanding into the stars, are now falling over themselves in awe at Coates suddenly realising that afro-futurism is a thing.
Most actual BP enthusiasts knew this from day one.[/QUOTE]
Wakanda in space and afro-futurism wasn't cool when you guys say it but when Coates says it (19 months later) it's the coolest thing in the world. I'm sure there's some goal post moving explanations as to why.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3124564][COLOR="#000080"]BCB, my bro it's like this...[/COLOR]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/lbJpOId.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
"HAHAHAHAHHAHAH"
-Namor
I think it was said earlier BP is afro futurism by default/definition of who and what Wakanda/BP are granted this run has lended itself more to the spiritual/political side than the tech side....
No one in this thread ever said they never wanted space adventures...
I think people are more inclined to see how this is pulled off more than anything
[QUOTE=C_haos;3124599]I think it was said earlier BP is afro futurism by default/definition of who and what Wakanda/BP are granted this run has lended itself more to the spiritual/political side than the tech side....
No one in this thread ever said they never wanted space adventures...
I think people are more inclined to see how this is pulled off more than anything[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone accused anyone else of being against space adventures. That was not the issue.
[QUOTE=Rumble;3124578]Wakanda in space and afro-futurism wasn't cool when you guys say it but when Coates says it (19 months later) it's the coolest thing in the world. I'm sure there's some goal post moving explanations as to why.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Keep. On. Moving.[/COLOR]
[IMG]https://falkvinge.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Q6hPmz.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3124609][COLOR="#000080"]Keep. On. Moving.[/COLOR]
[IMG]https://falkvinge.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Q6hPmz.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Lmfao I love how petty this is! I've gotten my absolute life!
Awesome exchange between me, Ezyo and the ostracized Kaepernick of CBR MindofShadow:
[quote][B]Rumble by another name:[/B]
BP should've called in Intergalatic Wakanda during Secret Empire[/quote]
[quote] [B]Ezyo[/B]
Why? To give Faustus a greater feat by controlling half the galactic wakandan empire?[/quote]
[quote][B]Rumble by another name:[/B]
I was thinking to help his blonde girlfriend and non-Wakandan friends out in space. Impenetrable shield and stuff[/quote]
[quote][B]MindofShadow[/B]
Yeah, this si why I posted somewhere (maybe it was Reddit) that Coates has to be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry careful how he makes this work.
If this empire existed pre-Secret Wars... then it would have been awfully useful when Wakanda got blown to bits by the black order. At the very least to evacuate Wakandans to the space colony.
If its only after Secret Wars... why didn't they help his super hero buddies when they were stucki n space? woudl have been a fine place to chill and hang out and device a strategy.
If Wakanda was so depleted and stretched thin that they couldn't stop rape camps and a two bit socerer and his 10 minions from just about taking over the Golden City... why weren't reinforcements brought in from the space colony ot defend Wakanda Prime?[/quote]
[quote][B]Ezyo[/B]
In simple terms, Coates likely didnt paln that far, at this point, no matter what he does, it will look bad. He might try and say "Oh well we were cut off from Planet Bast" But even that would be bullsh*t because Issue 1 takes place over the time span of the first season and Planet bast would likely be wondering why they havent heard from wakanda and likely send forces there to check it out.
Coates gon f*cked up basically[/quote]
Personally, I liked the "two-bit sorcerer and 10 minions" part. But that's off topic.
What do you think? Marvell? Smoov-E? BlackClaw? Mr.Maj? Cvile?
Why didn't BP use the might of the intergalactic Wakanda armada to help his blonde bae and friends?
Where were the reinforcements when Tetu was kicking his ass with tree limbs? Was the wi-fi bad? Did Bast not forward him the announcement email about their being an intergalactic empire? Is that why the Wakanda armies were stretched thin and the budget was so tight? Let's put on our kimoyo bands and talk about it.
Either way I'm going to see how it's played out
Oddly enough I kinda always wanted more Wakanda but I was thinking more like tribes that left and settled acorss the world Brazil/Mexico/India/Pacific would tie into other pre colonial text
[QUOTE=Rumble;3124615]Awesome exchange between me, Ezyo and the ostracized Kaepernick of CBR MindofShadow:
Personally, I liked the "two-bit sorcerer and 10 minions" part. But that's off topic.
What do you think? Marvell? Smoov-E? BlackClaw? Mr.Maj? Cvile?
Why didn't BP use the might of the intergalactic Wakanda armada to help his blonde bae and friends?
Where were the reinforcements when Tetu was kicking his ass with tree limbs? Was the wi-fi bad? Did Bast not forward him the announcement email about their being an intergalactic empire? Is that why the Wakanda armies were stretched thin and the budget was so tight? Let's put on our kimoyo bands and talk about it.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Reason 1. He was [I]too busy[/I] to stop treehouse rape camps in Wakanda. You know he didn't have time to care about space drama.
Reason 2. The Space Wakandans are isolationists.
Reason 3. The Space Wakandans were too busy watching bootleg movies of The Black Panther.
Reason 4. The Empire figured that BP would use "the Force" push.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3124559][COLOR="#000080"]That same consideration wasn't given to those who clarified on numerous occasions, their position on why Wakanda, while having a space program, would seek to colonize habitable planets. One poster in particular repeatedly questioned why Wakanda would depart en masse to the cosmos, leaving behind an abandoned Wakanda. The notion had been rebuked on several instances yet he [U]endeavored to persevere[/U](10 points to anyone who remembers the movie where this line came from) on a point that had already been squashed.
And a point that bears consideration. If Wakanda is so deeply rooted in isolationism as was another one of the counter-argument against colonization, why have a space program in the first place.
As far as Coates is concerned, he's already screwed BP in his run. If he can deliver a truly impressive T'Challa and Wakanda while telling a good sci-fi story with tones of Afro-futurism, I'll be the first to give him credit. You can quote me on that. Until then, my impression of his take of an Intergalactic Wakandan Empire is Lost In Space(old school).[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Ultimately it's a matter of execution.
I think it's fair for some readers to think the notion of them having a galactic empire this quickly is a bit out of the blue and not entirely believable for a variety of reasons. That said, none of us have read the story. If Coates can make it fit within the overall narrative and he makes it work, then again it's a non issue. If he can't, then it's simply something readers need to apply a little suspension of belief over. In comics, sometimes that's necessary. Ideally this won't be one of those times, but we'll see.
[QUOTE=XPac;3124670]Ultimately it's a matter of execution.
[B]I think it's fair for some readers to think the notion of them having a galactic empire this quickly is a bit out of the blue and not entirely believable for a variety of reasons[/B]. That said, none of us have read the story. If Coates can make it fit within the overall narrative and he makes it work, then again it's a non issue. If he can't, then it's simply something readers need to apply a little suspension of belief over. In comics, sometimes that's necessary. Ideally this won't be one of those times, but we'll see.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Put that blame on Coates.
I don't recall anyone asking for an instant empire. The talk was space exploration and colonization.
He's the one who went full Empire Strikes back so you'd have to ask him about the believability of Wakanda's intergalactic expanse as such a rapid pace.[/COLOR]
Legacy Primer:
[url]http://www.cbr.com/spider-man-captain-america-more-marvel-legacy-primer/#gallery=2[/url]
[QUOTE=C_haos;3124634]Either way I'm going to see how it's played out
Oddly enough I kinda always wanted more Wakanda but I was thinking more like tribes that left and settled acorss the world Brazil/Mexico/India/Pacific would tie into other pre colonial text[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]I think a hidden Wakandan tribe that re-settled in the Savage Land would have been a cool idea. Just to see how that culture would have developed had they used Savage Land vibranium.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3124680][COLOR="#000080"]Put that blame on Coates.
I don't recall anyone asking for an instant empire. The talk was space exploration and colonization.
He's the one who went full Empire Strikes back so you'd have to ask him about the believability of Wakanda's intergalactic expanse as such a rapid pace.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I AM putting the blame (or the credit) on Coates. Like I said, that's on him try and make it work. If he can great... if not, then readers need to use a bit of suspension of belief there. Which isn't the end of the world.
But I also think that shows a degree of enthusiasm for going in this direction. He went BIG. He didn't have to go as far as creating an entire empire... he easily could have simply taken baby steps by doing a bit of space exploration or whatever (which frankly would have been far more believable). But he didn't go half @$$... he went all out on the sci fi. And that may or may not work ... we'll see.
[QUOTE=XPac;3124696]I AM putting the blame (or the credit) on Coates. Like I said, that's on him try and make it work. If he can great... [B]if not, then readers need to use a bit of suspension of belief there. [/B]Which isn't the end of the world.
But I also think that shows a degree of enthusiasm for going in this direction. He went BIG. He didn't have to go as far as creating an entire empire... he easily could have simply taken baby steps by doing a bit of space exploration or whatever (which frankly would have been far more believable). But he didn't go half @$$... he went all out on the sci fi. And that may or may not work ... we'll see.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]A lot of the pro-space scenario supporters have been saying that despite nay-sayers.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3124709][COLOR="#000080"]A lot of the pro-space scenario supporters have been saying that despite nay-sayers.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Suspension of belief is at times a necessity... but it's always preferable if readers don't have to do it and the story simply makes sense.
I'm hoping that Coates has a good explanation of why all this suddenly appears. That would be ideal. If not... again, not the end of the world.
[QUOTE=Cville;3123478]Its not popping up on any of the free scans sights so no one can read it. lol[/QUOTE]
[url]www.comixology.com[/url] ;)
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;3123596]I did. Thought the issue was pretty good. Sprouse's art was very good, Torres's art wasnt that bad at all imho, action scenes were actually well done, and everyone had a good showing. [/quote]
Were there two artists? Do you know the breakdown of who did what?
[quote]Is it a game-changer for those who already hate the run? No. If you hate this run and/or dropped it already, I doubt this issue will change your mind. However, I suspect this issue (and the next one) will greatly influence those that are on the fence. [/QUOTE]
I agree with that.
[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;3123689]
It seems like Editorial has reigned Coates in because, surprisingly, there is ZERO T’Challa punking in the entire issue. The Midnight Angels listen to T’Challa’s orders with no back talk or insults. Storm isn’t present to upstage him, and T’Challa actually figures ****
Out on HIS OWN without having to rely on Shuri. In fact he schools her.[/QUOTE]
Or he is capable of listening to feedback. Or he had a specific story to tell that he finished. But, yeah, let's assume Marvel is actively doing things because everyone agrees that Marvel is on the ball these days.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3123691][B]SWII ending explained why Wakanda was looking to the stars. The found a planet, Named it after their god and the main city is named after their king. [/B][/QUOTE]
While I agree overall, the story is technically Secret Wars IV. At a minimum, SWIII. Secret Wars II is an official Marvel event by Jim Shooter. It's the one where Spider-Man teaches the Beyonder how to poop.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3123409]I'm curious how many people have read the issue this week?[/QUOTE]
I did. I loved how badass the DM were as they infiltrated the facility. I liked how it all would've been impossible without BP's scientific and strategic expertise. He pretty much mapped out the things that were gonna happen before they did. I appreciatedthat. I still could use more attention to detail on his physicality. I really like the focus on his prowess as an acrobat, gymnast, and Uber martial artist. But overall I liked how he busted the cage right open, he snapped some necks, and was throwing energy daggers. I really loved this issue.
[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;3123689]Read the solo issue yesterday.
It seems like Editorial has reigned Coates in because, surprisingly, there is ZERO T’Challa punking in the entire issue. The Midnight Angels listen to T’Challa’s orders with no back talk or insults. Storm isn’t present to upstage him, and T’Challa actually figures ****
Out on HIS OWN without having to rely on Shuri. In fact he schools her.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about the editorially part. It just feels to me that Coates is coming to grips with who BP is as a person and what he means to his most loyal fans.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;3123873]I'm strictly talking about the fight, not the break up in general. I'm saying that despite Aaron's talent and BP writing history, a lot of us wouldn't have expected him to write the breakup the way it went down.
Even if one wants to argue that Aaron wrote that (the fight) because it was an event book and thus there was editorial interference, Coates is not writing an event book. He's writing a book that editorial has given him a lot of leeway and said book is still selling overall.
Hence why I asked why would editorial suddenly interfere now. Would've been one thing if the book was failing financially but it isn't.[/QUOTE]
This point needs to be referenced over and over. There absolutely is a difference between hitting editorially mandated plot points. Writing two characters in a way that disrespected everything good about their union is something else entirely. Not to mention, isn't he the same writer that tries to punk BP with that "please not him" bullshit? I don't know off the top of my head. All I know is that he's committed his fair share of egregious offenses against Storm. Too many to count.
[QUOTE=Rumble;3124615]Awesome exchange between me, Ezyo and the ostracized Kaepernick of CBR MindofShadow:
Personally, I liked the "two-bit sorcerer and 10 minions" part. But that's off topic.
What do you think? Marvell? Smoov-E? BlackClaw? Mr.Maj? Cvile?
Why didn't BP use the might of the intergalactic Wakanda armada to help his blonde bae and friends?
Where were the reinforcements when Tetu was kicking his ass with tree limbs? Was the wi-fi bad? Did Bast not forward him the announcement email about their being an intergalactic empire? Is that why the Wakanda armies were stretched thin and the budget was so tight? Let's put on our kimoyo bands and talk about it.[/QUOTE]
One possibility that could work I think. Tchalla would have had to set it up after Secret War. But not be on the planet until the start are the Crew. Then go back after the Crew story finished. Then return again to talk to the miners for issue 1.
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3124729]This point needs to be referenced over and over. There absolutely is a difference between hitting editorially mandated plot points. [B]Writing two characters in a way that disrespected everything good about their union is something else entirely. Not to mention, isn't he the same writer that tries to punk BP with that "please not him" bullshit?[/B] I don't know off the top of my head. All I know is that he's committed his fair share of egregious offenses against Storm. Too many to count.[/QUOTE]
I believe he was. And good point about editorial.
There's a difference between editorial guidance and editorial mandates.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3124564][COLOR="#000080"]BCB, my bro it's like this...[/COLOR]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/lbJpOId.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It is what it is my Professional bro.
Are we sure the Wakandan Galactic Empire is not a flash forward or glimpse into another reality or something?
[QUOTE=Digifiend;3124683]Legacy Primer:
[url]http://www.cbr.com/spider-man-captain-america-more-marvel-legacy-primer/#gallery=2[/url][/QUOTE]
[B]...... Sooooooo T'Chaka took T'Challa's feat now?... My god can anyone get anything right here? Are they even trying at this point? I already know the answer..[/B]
[QUOTE=Lord Morph;3124799]Are we sure the Wakandan Galactic Empire is not a flash forward or glimpse into another reality or something?[/QUOTE]
All we know for sure is that Aaron said this story will take place in the present.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3124804][B]...... Sooooooo T'Chaka took T'Challa's feat now?... My god can anyone get anything right here? Are they even trying at this point? I already know the answer..[/B][/QUOTE]
I think the feat of T'Challa making Wakanda the most advanced nation on earth was already taken from T"Challa is Hudlins run.
Though crediting to T'Chaka specifically is new.
[QUOTE=XPac;3124818]I think the feat of T'Challa making Wakanda the most advanced nation on earth was already taken from T"Challa is Hudlins run.
Though crediting to T'Chaka specifically is new.[/QUOTE]
[B]You can fit both into the same origin. T'Challa could of taken Wakanda even further then any of his ancestors... Now its T'Chaka's feat and T'Challa just inherited it.. Bullshit [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3124845][B]You can fit both into the same origin. T'Challa could of taken Wakanda even further then any of his ancestors... Now its T'Chaka's feat and T'Challa just inherited it.. Bullshit [/B][/QUOTE]
This is what happens when the supposed Black Panther writer cares more about his pet/female characters then the one he is suppose to be shepherding. smh
[QUOTE=XPac;3124719]Suspension of belief is at times a necessity... but it's always preferable if readers don't have to do it and the story simply makes sense.
I'm hoping that Coates has a good explanation of why all this suddenly appears. That would be ideal. If not... again, not the end of the world.[/QUOTE]
The concept of previously unheard of Rape camps in Wakanda was one that some chose to see as an innevitable fallout from some of Wakandas many disasters even though the innate stupidity of the rape camps flew in the face of where Hickman left Wakanda at Secret Wars II's conclusion.
Now, all of a sudden suspension of disbelief is apparently acceptable to the nay sayers who couldn't visualize afro-futurism over racially tinged stereotypical depictions of Africa as seen through Western eyes.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3124804][B]...... Sooooooo T'Chaka took T'Challa's feat now?... My god can anyone get anything right here? Are they even trying at this point? I already know the answer..[/B][/QUOTE]
Hudlin already established that Wakanda's advanced technology went back centuries in "Who is the Black Panther, and now they pull this T'Chaka B.S.. Man this is why I can't read Marvel new stuff. I guess having an African Country be advanced by themselves is to much for comic book writers to handle but a talking raccoon, Squirrel girl ,And ruby Thursday Are easy to imagine .SMDH
LMFAO, and Chokes continues to **** on T'Challa by giving a feat to T'Chaka instead. My god, he just keeps showing more and more that he could give **** all about this character.