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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3711747]This is getting way past of the point of being useful. You are picking out single words and then ignoring core questions. Consistently. But, one more time...
Issue 13 set the table for the story. It started the main narrative of the book (Ororo is a god, not just a weather mutant). It wasn't "just a date." It was putting the pieces in place to tell the story. Saying it was "just a date" is like saying it was "just a portal" or "just some snake men." Issue 13 told us that (1) the Orisha seem to be gone. (2) this has allowed the originators to return through portals around Wakanda. (3) Closing these portals has a cost. (4) foreshadowing Storm's turn to Godhood and the beginning of T'challa nudging her in that direction.
Issue 15 continued T'challa nudging of Storm to do more than sit on the sidelines. To get involved. Thus, pushing her farther towards being the/a protector/god of Wakanda, which is the main story of the book. That is really the only progress the plot took. We already knew the rest (portals open, there is a cost to close them, the originators are old). The only new thing is that T'challa is trying to force Storm to be more, again.
Issue 16 has Storm continuing the main plot of the book. It is shown the Wakandans looking out their windows to see her... the queen has returned to help. This is the beginning of the Wakandan "belief" in her. she is also the only one to continue the portal story (ie, the main story) and the only one with the expertise to do what she is doing (as stated by Shuri). We also have T'challa explaining to Ramonda why Storm is around. The rest of the book is devoted to the B Plot of the book, Stane/Hydra/Klaw. This part of the story is a complete side plot that has nothing to do with the main story of the book (where are the orisha, what are the originators, who is opening the portals).
You have to separate the two plots. The Klaw plot is a different story than the Portal plot, no matter how badly Coates tried to connect the two. It seems like Storm "disappears" because some of the plot changes to focus on the Klaw/Asira crap, including two random issues devoted entirely to Klaw and the MA. When it comes to that side plot, Storm isn't involved because it doesn't involve the main plot (which ended up being the Adversary and why Storm is a god).
T'challa did not evolve IMO. He was a king that did his kingly duties as he saw fit. If anything, that is a regression from what Season 1 told us. I could buy that season 2 is "confident T'challa" again and that is his "development" but that is a bit flimsy at best. T'challa has always been confident. Last season was the abnormality.
A true development for T'challa would have been him learning what happened to the Orisha and having some development based on that revelation (is he mad at his gods? is he lost without them? what does it truly mean that Wakanda has been abandoned?). But Coates stopped that story with a shrug.
I don't agree with you about Shuri at all. She is the same Shuri as she was before. She just used her new powers as she saw fit. Her knowledge actually proved to be inconsequential to the villain problem.
[and ftr, I do not believe I said this was a Storm solo, only that the narrative and character development focused on her.][/QUOTE]
1.) No I understand what Issue 13 did as you pointed out; however, you are looking at this issue in hindsight with all that we now know. Yes Tchalla had a discussion with his ex-wife concerning the Orisha and if she was a real god, but in terms of Ororo development how was she changed within this story seeing that is the requirement you mentioned with the definition you provided? After their date night, Tchalla would go to fight against the invaders and that discussion for this issue was just a discussion.
2.) No that is not true. He and Shuri in issue 15 were working on way to figure out a solution to the threat. It wasn't until the end the issue that Shuri recommends he reach out to O'roro since she has ties to weather and being a "goddess". At that point of the story when he reached out to her, she reluctantly decided to help him and Wakanda, proclaiming she would never forsake him. There was indication in this story that she was an actual goddess or if she would even be able to help address the weather plaguing Wakanda.
3.) Storm was barely in issue 16. She is shown the first part of the book flying towards the storms and then at the end again she hears the storm whisper a name. Issue 16 primarily focused on T'challa fighting and dealing with the threat from the Andreas pack. Again, Storm, her presence and how it ties to the main plot of determining where the Orishas went is not readily known at this point and the fact that she isn't the primary focus of the issue certainly at this point wouldn't indicate she is central to everything that is happening in Wakanda. You are looking at this story in hindsight from all that we learned as the plot progressed. However, to say that she was the main focus of this issue as your original post seemed to suggest is not true. Tchalla and his efforts to stop the Adreas family was the main point of this issue (whether it was subplot or not).
4.) Regardless of main plot or sub-plot or however O'roro ties to it, she was not a primary character in all of the issues that she appeared in. Yes after the dust settled it is true she was the one T'challa knew or believed could defeat Adversary but that was not something we were certain of until issue 172. And outside of issue 172, only 17 primarily featured her. Yes she was the character to save the day as a part of this arc but you can't argue that she was the main focus of all the stories she was in leading up to issue 172 as that is not true.
5.) I don't think the story of the Orisha is over. We clearly don't know where or what happened to the gods as of yet so this is something that will have to be addressed at a later point. To me it is a "to be continued" and it's a further continuation of his character development including what we are seeing with the new BP book. Coates is a slow burner when it comes to telling stories and seeing how thoughtful he is as a writer I am confident this will be revisited at some point. All in all, let the story continue to unfold as it is far from over. As far as Shuri is concerned, she most definitely is not the character she was prior to returning back to the natural plain as T'challa knows. Yes her changes and the understanding of this was fleshed out in the first arc, the second arc was a continuation of her ascension to being a near-omniscient mage.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;3712751][video=youtube;rrARAcA2pJY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrARAcA2pJY[/video]
Sturm Und Drang made the list. :D[/QUOTE]
I am loving this list!! Two black writers topping it off as the best writers of the BP mythos !! I am here for this and it's good that even with all the criticism he gets outside of this forum people are rightly giving him the props he deserves. I think this appreciation for his work will continue with this next arc!!!
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3714111][B]Three things for sure should of happened. 1 S'yan should not of died. 2 Tchalla should of disabled Dooms mystical Vibranium using shadow physics and not all Vibranium, showcasing that he had a better understanding of Vibranium then Doom. 3 after disabling said mystical Vibranium, T'Challa should of proceeded to whoop Dooms ass on panel in a even playing field and giving him a solid undisputed victory over Doom[/B][/QUOTE]
And he cut his eye & took hand/arm aswell.
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Black Panther Vol. 1 #13 - [i]What Is and What Should Never Be[/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/5d8081f1d7e8d4a815d1_6.jpg[/img]
Jack Kirby has left the book and we get a brand new team. This was a plot by Jim Shooter (as Editor in Chief) nd a script by Ed Hannigan. Given the fact that Shooter stepped in personally, I wonder how much time they had to take over the story. Immediately, the art seems different, particularly in the way the Black Panther is drawn. But there's still an homage to Kirby with the opening splash followed by a double splash. The double splash is actually quite impressive - T'Challa confronts Kiber and sees he's basically destroyed himself and is now a deformed blob creature. It's a nice sci-fi twist, but I have no idea why it would be revealed on page two.
Anyway, Kiber first seems helpless and T'Challa decides to talk with him telepathically. Then, suddenly, we see that Kiber isn't helpless, so they fight. Then T'Challa escapes for more room. He's confused when Kiber's followers can't phase through the material of the walls to follow, so he uses the material of the walls to beat them up. Then he finds the exit and steps outside to realize they're on a rock in the middle of the ocean. T'Challa promptly annexes the rock as Wakandan territory.
Anyway, T'Challa returns to rescue Khanata. He is the last prisoner not yet fed to the energy converting machine. Then he stalks the halls defeating Kiber's creations. Then he reaches Kiber himself. He finds one energy lightbulb that contains the minds of all the prisoners. Kiber says that he was absorbing them into his consciousness where they would live forever. T'Challa opts instead to leave Kiber to starve to death while he takes the bulb away with the hope of curing them. Then the issue ends.
I'm torn on this issue. I thought the twist with what Kiber was is an interesting one, but I think it somehow made Kiber a less interesting character. As much as I like Kirby as an artist, the more contemporary style made people easier to look at. I liked T'Challa stalking the bad guys and defeating them, but I feel like they were made weaker with no explanation. Even the callback to his premonition of the future was done in a rushed, half-hearted way (he basically just concluded his visions weren't 100% accurate and he won instead of died). On the other hand, I can't entirely blame the creative team - they were thrust into a story they had no idea where it was going and had to finish it as quickly as possible. Maybe next issue will be better.
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Coates deserves props for rampant treehouse rape camps?
Forced misogyny.
Traitors and murderers getting rewarded.
T'Challa acting ooc.
Shuri telling abuse and rape victims to shut up and that they should've died as long as Wakanda stood.
Shuri telling a black man that he's Wakanda’s slave now.
Turning wakanda into colonizers and kicking the natives out of their own country in chains.
Turning wakanda into slavers.
Creating pointless new gods and retconing the rest into humans powered by worship and then replace the gods with a character from a different franchise?
Plot points that don't go nowhere.
The only characters that have benefited from his run are his OCs and Storm. I guess as long as Storm looks good in the end all is forgiven.
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[I]read some more of the 1st hudlin tpb today, i am up to issue 16.
whoa, i thought the first 6 issues were good, but the newer ones with luck cage, bro. voodoo, shang chi, blade, and all the rest are out of this world. i simply really enjoyed these stories more than any other modern bp stories i have read /so far/. why did this writer leave? will he ever come back?
the part were luke tells t'challa he should at least take shang's sister on a date, and the no comment look that the artist drew of t'challa had me laughing out loud! good stuff! :)[/I]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3714140]1.) No I understand what Issue 13 did as you pointed out; however, you are looking at this issue in hindsight with all that we now know. Yes Tchalla had a discussion with his ex-wife concerning the Orisha and if she was a real god, but in terms of Ororo development how was she changed within this story seeing that is the requirement you mentioned with the definition you provided? After their date night, Tchalla would go to fight against the invaders and that discussion for this issue was just a discussion.
2.) No that is not true. He and Shuri in issue 15 were working on way to figure out a solution to the threat. It wasn't until the end the issue that Shuri recommends he reach out to O'roro since she has ties to weather and being a "goddess". At that point of the story when he reached out to her, she reluctantly decided to help him and Wakanda, proclaiming she would never forsake him. There was indication in this story that she was an actual goddess or if she would even be able to help address the weather plaguing Wakanda.
3.) Storm was barely in issue 16. She is shown the first part of the book flying towards the storms and then at the end again she hears the storm whisper a name. Issue 16 primarily focused on T'challa fighting and dealing with the threat from the Andreas pack. Again, Storm, her presence and how it ties to the main plot of determining where the Orishas went is not readily known at this point and the fact that she isn't the primary focus of the issue certainly at this point wouldn't indicate she is central to everything that is happening in Wakanda. You are looking at this story in hindsight from all that we learned as the plot progressed. However, to say that she was the main focus of this issue as your original post seemed to suggest is not true. Tchalla and his efforts to stop the Adreas family was the main point of this issue (whether it was subplot or not).
4.) Regardless of main plot or sub-plot or however O'roro ties to it, she was not a primary character in all of the issues that she appeared in. Yes after the dust settled it is true she was the one T'challa knew or believed could defeat Adversary but that was not something we were certain of until issue 172. And outside of issue 172, only 17 primarily featured her. Yes she was the character to save the day as a part of this arc but you can't argue that she was the main focus of all the stories she was in leading up to issue 172 as that is not true.
5.) I don't think the story of the Orisha is over. We clearly don't know where or what happened to the gods as of yet so this is something that will have to be addressed at a later point. To me it is a "to be continued" and it's a further continuation of his character development including what we are seeing with the new BP book. Coates is a slow burner when it comes to telling stories and seeing how thoughtful he is as a writer I am confident this will be revisited at some point. All in all, let the story continue to unfold as it is far from over. As far as Shuri is concerned, she most definitely is not the character she was prior to returning back to the natural plain as T'challa knows. Yes her changes and the understanding of this was fleshed out in the first arc, the second arc was a continuation of her ascension to being a near-omniscient mage.[/QUOTE]
Your 4th point gets to the heart of what i think the consistent problem is. Why is another character key to the plot resolution? Why is Storm getting any kind of serious development over T'challa? This is HIS damn book!!! Let me see T'challa acsend to Godhood and be redefined while we view him in a different capacity. Let me see where he is vital to final victory in his nation. You get nothing but stink from me if reading Fantastic Four arc Captain America is made the savior.
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[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3714750][I]read some more of the 1st hudlin tpb today, i am up to issue 16.
whoa, i thought the first 6 issues were good, but the newer ones with luck cage, bro. voodoo, shang chi, blade, and all the rest are out of this world. i simply really enjoyed these stories more than any other modern bp stories i have read /so far/. why did this writer leave? will he ever come back?
the part were luke tells t'challa he should at least take shang's sister on a date, and the no comment look that the artist drew of t'challa had me laughing out loud! good stuff! :)[/I][/QUOTE]
Welcome to the order of Hudlin. Why he left I couldn't say, but comic books is not his day job so I think he started moving into bigger entertainment projects. He was behind "Marshal" starring Boseman.
I loved those issues you mentioned too. You got the Civil War/Wedding stories next and I think you'll enjoy them just as much.
Those first six issues have been made into a novel by Jesse Holland and a cartoon.
Once you finish track down the BP annual from this year. He makes a return with a few pages of content.
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[I]is that the annual that came out with the book numbers #166 and up?[/I]
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[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3714778][I]is that the annual that came out with the book numbers #166 and up?[/I][/QUOTE]
Yes. I love it. Its also a follow up to the annual he wrote as part ofthe run you are reading now.
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[I]the "order of hudlin", i love it! :)
the only thing i was surprised with is, in the commentary that quoted hudlin in the back of the book, he said the "guy in the ape suit" would never make an appearance in any of his stories, but yet, i saw him appear at the end of the last issue i read?[/I]
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3714662]Black Panther Vol. 1 #13 - [i]What Is and What Should Never Be[/i]
Jack Kirby has left the book and we get a brand new team.
[/QUOTE]
[I]i remember buying this book off the spinning rack at my local drug store. i didn't remember the story, but i sure did remember the cover. i was excited that kirby was off the art; i love his art in the old 12cent era, but was not a fan of him in the 20cent era and beyond. thank you again for continuing to post this recaps of old stories. after this run ends, what run do you plan to do next? on a side note, i hated the 35cent prices. previously i could buy 5 comics for a dollar, then all of a sudden i needed one dollar and a nickle just to buy 3 comics. :([/I]
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[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3714878][I]the "order of hudlin", i love it! :)
the only thing i was surprised with is, in the commentary that quoted hudlin in the back of the book, he said the "guy in the ape suit" would never make an appearance in any of his stories, but yet, i saw him appear at the end of the last issue i read?[/I][/QUOTE]
Lol. I saw that too. I guess he softened on the position when he found a funny way to use him. Its a good joke during the wedding.
That interview might have taken place before he knew his run was going to get picked up for more issues.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3714893]Lol. I saw that too. I guess he softened on the position when he found a funny way to use him. Its a good joke during the wedding.
That interview might have taken place before he knew his run was going to get picked up for more issues.[/QUOTE]
[I]true. i am not being critical of him, just pointing it out. never say never. :)[/I]
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[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3714878][I]the "order of hudlin", i love it! :)
the only thing i was surprised with is, in the commentary that quoted hudlin in the back of the book, he said the "guy in the ape suit" would never make an appearance in any of his stories, but yet, i saw him appear at the end of the last issue i read?[/I][/QUOTE]
It's pretty easy for anyone to dismiss the guy in the ape suit at first glance. But I think once you read M'Baku in Priests, you can see his potential. Under the right writer, he can actually be kinda cool. His idealogical differences and the fact that him and T'Challa used to be friends actually allows you to do some interesting things with him. Glad he made it to the movie. I recall a few years back on the boards people arguing he shouldn't be.