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[QUOTE=Ekie;1860254]Not wanting T'challa to be gay doesn't mean "he hates teh gays". Don't be so easily offended. We like our T'challa the way he is and there's nothing wrong with that.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Can we please stop calling people who disagree with the LGBT community haters? It only makes that community look bad.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1860091]I'd LOVE it; our first LGBT hero in the films; and it would be the most bad-ass one!!! YES! It will never happen (esp. with Disney giving him a solo film, they would never give that to a gay hero); but it is fun to speculate. I'd be all for it (obviously); even if it's just bisexual. He's a king, his duty is to produce an heir (not that you need to be str8 or even bisexual to jerk off into a test tube); beyond that... sex is meant for pleasure.
It would be a bold choice, esp. considering how many African countries view homosexuality. But it's just too bold, and too brave for Marvel or Disney (we only JUST got our first ever gay A-lister in Iceman last year). Which makes me think Wakanda would be an LGBT beacon of good. Many ancient societies had no problem with homosexuality; and most of the African countries that have such horrible records in gay rights is because of CHRISTIAN AMERICAN INFLUENCE! [/QUOTE]
Right. It's the Christians' fault, not the Muslims? Because it's easier to pick on Christians huh Keiron? You know, I've seen you post a lot about Christians, but never about Muslims or Islam. Could it be that you're too afraid to espouse your rhetoric against them?
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1860091]
Oh, hush! Surely the idea doesn't upset you THAT much? [B]His sexuality is the least important part of his character[/B], he doesn't need to be str8 to be T'Challa to the bone.[/QUOTE]
And if his sexuality is the least important part of his character, then what do you care?
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[QUOTE=Ekie;1860254]Not wanting T'challa to be gay doesn't mean "he hates teh gays". Don't be so easily offended. We like our T'challa the way he is and there's nothing wrong with that.[/QUOTE]
Errrrr... I never said he "hates the gays"; what a strange/defensive attitude to take. I don't get why you needed to jump to that very exaggerated conclusion? :confused: Apologies if you found it offensive. :(
[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1860270]And if his sexuality is the least important part of his character, then what do you care?[/QUOTE]
To be clear I didn't suggest changing it; I merely supported someone else's idea that T'Challa could date a man not a woman. And his sexuality isn't important so IF the writer or director wants MCU T'challa to be gay or bi; it wouldn't effect the story or character's core.
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[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1860264]Exactly. Can we please stop calling people who disagree with the LGBT community haters? It only makes that community look bad.[/QUOTE]
It doesnt make the LGBT community look bad. It makes the person who needs to change character's sexuality like I change underwear look bad. No one person/poster speaks for an entire group. Kieran speaks for Kieran and thats it.
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[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1860264]Exactly. Can we please stop calling people who disagree with the LGBT community haters? It only makes that community look bad.[/QUOTE]
Again... no-one called anyone a hater. Relax, mate :)
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860286]No one person/poster speaks for an entire group. Kieran speaks for Kieran and thats it.[/QUOTE]
Ding ding ding ding
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[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/aFVSnjo.png?1[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1860272]Errrrr... I never said he "hates the gays"; what a strange/defensive attitude to take. I don't get why you needed to jump to that very exaggerated conclusion? :confused: Apologies if you found it offensive. :(
To be clear I didn't suggest changing it; I merely supported someone else's idea that T'Challa could date a man not a woman. And his sexuality isn't important so IF the writer or director wants MCU T'challa to be gay or bi; it wouldn't effect the story or character's core.[/QUOTE]
So I ask again, if it's not important, then why bring it up?
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860286]It doesnt make the LGBT community look bad. It makes the person who needs to change character's sexuality like I change underwear look bad. No one person/poster speaks for an entire group. Kieran speaks for Kieran and thats it.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough
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[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1860296]So I ask again, if it's not important, then why bring it up?[/QUOTE]
The same reason Heimdell is black or Hogarth is female.... the MCU is not bound by comic canon; and adding diversity to reflect the world is a GOOD thing. Why can we talk about who should be T'challa's love interest but the second someone suggests a man it's "why bring it up, why bring it up?" It's a discussion of ideas; so an idea was floated. That's how a discussion board works. If you don't want him to be gay, fine. I like the idea (though, again, it will NEVER happen so chill). Agree to disagree and RELAX! :)
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Found this in the Collected forum. BP is getting a second Masterworks
[IMG]http://www.collectededitions.com/marvel/mm/bp/images/mm_bp02_4b.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1860272]Errrrr... I never said he "hates the gays"; what a strange/defensive attitude to take. I don't get why you needed to jump to that very exaggerated conclusion? :confused: Apologies if you found it offensive. :(
To be clear I didn't suggest changing it; I merely supported someone else's idea that T'Challa could date a man not a woman. And his sexuality isn't important so IF the writer or director wants MCU T'challa to be gay or bi; it wouldn't effect the story or character's core.[/QUOTE]
Kieran, my brother you got a rep. So does this site everytime sexuality is brpught up.
Its divisive for the sake of being divisive.
After the debacle of the Storm and BP marriage.
After years of Black on Black hetero love being more exclusive than LGBT represntation.
We should be more understanding why people are defensive about TChalla 50 years established heterosexuality.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;1860254]Not wanting T'challa to be gay doesn't mean "he hates teh gays". Don't be so easily offended. We like our T'challa the way he is and there's nothing wrong with that.[/QUOTE]
Was there anything in kieran Frost's response that indicated that he felt Ziggiyy "hates gays"?
KF's post was well thought out and presented in a manner that was respectful of T'Challa's character and a lot of the points he raised about Wakanda's possible reactions to homosexuality actually made sense.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860310]Kieran, my brother you got a rep. So does this site everytime sexuality is brpught up.
Its divisive for the sake of being divisive.
After the debacle of the Storm and BP marriage.
After years of Black on Black hetero love being more exclusive than LGBT represntation.
We should be more understanding why people are defensive about TChalla 50 years established heterosexuality.[/QUOTE]
But here's the thing.
It wasn't Kieran that brought up the idea of a bi or gay T'Challa in the Marvel Movieverse.
That was all down to me.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1860305]The same reason Heimdell is black or Hogarth is female.... the MCU is not bound by comic canon; and adding diversity to reflect the world is a GOOD thing. Why can we talk about who should be T'challa's love interest but the second someone suggests a man it's "why bring it up, why bring it up?" It's a discussion of ideas; so an idea was floated. That's how a discussion board works. If you don't want him to be gay, fine. I like the idea (though, again, it will NEVER happen so chill). Agree to disagree and RELAX! :)[/QUOTE]
Quoted for truth.
It's not as if the subject of homosexuality has not been explored before in the BP mythos as anyone familiar with Don McGregor's Jungle Action BP run should know.
The relationship between Taku and Venomm was replete with a gay subtext.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1859764]it would depend on the explanation, to be honest. If it happened now, I'm not sure it would change much, given that the character has been around for over a decade. There's an old saying about barn doors....
In any case, I think a stronger case can be made for simply accepting her existence and moving on. While she's not a particular favorite of mine (unlike my old friend Mr MajestiK), I'm not opposed to her being used. A worse approach would be to either ignore her, kill her off, or mutate her into an entirely different character (which has been done to various members of BP's supporting cast in the past).
If I were to give Mr. Coates one piece of advice, it would be to hit the ground running. Don't ignore the character's past, but don't dwell on it either.[/QUOTE]
Whassup Mario?
Long time no see. :cool:
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860313]Was there anything in kieran Frost's response that indicated that he felt Ziggiyy "hates gays"?
KF's post was well thought out and presented in a manner that was respectful of T'Challa's character and a lot of the points he raised about Wakanda's possible reactions to homosexuality actually made sense.[/QUOTE]
The reaction to what was I'm sure an intended comical gif being that of someone who took offense to opposition of it. I made no comment about his other points.
ANYWAY
Lets not let this movie hype train get derailed.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]33631[/ATTACH]
Black Panther was the secong highest trending Civil war topic of the last trailer. ABOVE Spiderman
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1860305]The same reason Heimdell is black or Hogarth is female.... the MCU is not bound by comic canon; and adding diversity to reflect the world is a GOOD thing. Why can we talk about who should be T'challa's love interest but the second someone suggests a man it's "why bring it up, why bring it up?" It's a discussion of ideas; so an idea was floated. That's how a discussion board works. If you don't want him to be gay, fine. I like the idea (though, again, it will NEVER happen so chill). Agree to disagree and RELAX! :)[/QUOTE]
Because I'm tired of people wanting diversity just for diversity sake. If Marvel or DC really bold, they would put an iconic character like Superman black and gay on the big screen and see how well that goes over. Instead, they take a relatively unknown (to those outside of comics) like Wally West and make him a young, black man on tv and say "here you go, we did it". Yeah, that's really bold.
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[QUOTE=UltimateTy;1860308]Found this in the Collected forum. BP is getting a second Masterworks
[IMG]http://www.collectededitions.com/marvel/mm/bp/images/mm_bp02_4b.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Awesome!!!!
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860327]Whassup Mario?
Long time no see. :cool:[/QUOTE]
Hey, Maj... I'm mostly out of comics these days. Panther may bring me back. We'll see how Coates does.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1860342]Hey, Maj... I'm mostly out of comics these days. Panther may bring me back. We'll see how Coates does.[/QUOTE]
What're you into now then? :)
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[QUOTE=UltimateTy;1860308]Found this in the Collected forum. BP is getting a second Masterworks
[IMG]http://www.collectededitions.com/marvel/mm/bp/images/mm_bp02_4b.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Pardon my comic book ignorance, but what's a "masterworks?"
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I just realized that Chad is actually holding someone's hands here. I think at this point it is obvious that it may be T'Chaka but who is going to play him?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/v2u6OAT.png[/img]
Sorry if I am pondering on this too much
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Tchaka easily. hence the tears.
Maybe his mom?
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860345]What're you into now then? :)[/QUOTE]
Earning a salary, mostly. :D
When I do read fiction, it's usually of the urban fantasy variety. But even that isn't very often.
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[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1860268]Right. It's the Christians' fault, not the Muslims? Because it's easier to pick on Christians huh Keiron? You know, I've seen you post a lot about Christians, but never about Muslims or Islam. Could it be that you're too afraid to espouse your rhetoric against them?[/QUOTE]
I'm a Christian, DK ;) I'm also British, doesn't mean I gloss over the fact India was actually very accepting of trans and even homosexuality before the British Empire came along and added their prudish, pre-Victoria sensibility to sexuality and turned a once quasi-pro-LGBT country into a place that, to this day, is still not very gay friendly. OWN history, don't deny it... just don't be ruled by it either.
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860310]Kieran, my brother you got a rep. So does this site everytime sexuality is brpught up.[/QUOTE]
That I do; but I still didn't call anyone a hater or say anyone "hates the gays." Why anyone feels threatened just by talking about T'Challa's sexuality is beyond me??? Especially knowing it'll never happen.
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860310]Its divisive for the sake of being divisive.
After the debacle of the Storm and BP marriage.
After years of Black on Black hetero love being more exclusive than LGBT represntation.
[B]We should be more understanding why people are defensive about TChalla 50 years established heterosexuality.[/B][/QUOTE]
The same could be said for Hiemdell race (less about Hogarth gender, most don't even remember him). And we know those arguements don't hold water. There is no MCU canon for T'Challa, he is not holden to comic law or history. Diversity matters, inclusion matters. And what I don't want, over a str8 T'Challa or a gay T'Challa is a SEXLESS T'Challa. Gay or str8, I want him to own it!
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860313]Was there anything in kieran Frost's response that indicated that he felt Ziggiyy "hates gays"?
KF's post was well thought out and presented in a manner that was respectful of T'Challa's character and a lot of the points he raised about Wakanda's possible reactions to homosexuality actually made sense.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8irmybOtE1rc2pkbo1_500.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860313]It's not as if the subject of homosexuality has not been explored before in the BP mythos as anyone familiar with Don McGregor's Jungle Action BP run should know.
The relationship between Taku and Venomm was replete with a gay subtext.[/QUOTE]
And Taku, T'Challa's minister of communications in Wakanda (who I hope Coates bring back).
[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1860338]Because [B]I'm tired of people wanting diversity just for diversity sake.[/B] If Marvel or DC really bold, they would put an iconic character like Superman black and gay on the big screen and see how well that goes over. Instead, they take a relatively unknown (to those outside of comics) like Wally West and make him a young, black man on tv and say "here you go, we did it". Yeah, that's really bold.[/QUOTE]
You don't honestly think Marvel is making a Black Panther solo film and a Captain Marvel solo film coincidently... do you???
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[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=310&v=k_tSLsoyB4E"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=310&v=k_tSLsoyB4E[/URL]
I just saw this and though it was cool.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1860367]Earning a salary, mostly. :D
When I do read fiction, it's usually of the urban fantasy variety. But even that isn't very often.[/QUOTE]
PM me what you're reading and I'll check it out. :D
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[QUOTE=Ekie;1860357]Tchaka easily. hence the tears.
Maybe his mom?[/QUOTE]
I doubt it'll be anyone big. They have to die in his movie later ;)
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860317]But here's the thing.
It wasn't Kieran that brought up the idea of a bi or gay T'Challa in the Marvel Movieverse.
That was all down to me.[/QUOTE]
I am not blaming Kieran for anything. Its been brought up before. A couple of other posters have brought it up. I just understand poster being defensive when they object to a character switching their sexuality like they switch their costumes.
I have also heard that BP should be rebooted into a White guy.....because race doesnt matter.
I put both suggestions in the same bin:)
Heimdall being Black for Thor was purely changing a minor character to have the illusion of inclusion in a mostly white movie.
If someone brought up making Ross bi or another supporting character into a member of the LBGT community I doubt their would have been much conflict.
Wait a minute.Its the BP thread....there is always conflict:)
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;1860497]I doubt it'll be anyone big. They have to die in his movie later ;)[/QUOTE]
I wouldnt object to it. Its a big moment un a big movie. TChaka is Uncle Ben.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860522]I am not blaming Kieran for anything. Its been brought up before. A couple of other posters have brought it up. I just understand poster being defensive when they object to a character switching their sexuality like they switch their costumes.
I have also heard that BP should be rebooted into a White guy.....because race doesnt matter.
I put both suggestions in the same bin:)
Heimdall being Black for Thor was purely changing a minor character to have the illusion of inclusion in a mostly white movie.
If someone brought up making Ross bi or another supporting character into a member of the LBGT community I doubt their would have been much conflict.
[B]
Wait a minute.Its the BP thread....there is always conflict[/B]:)[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
So for discussions sake, how would you feel if some future writer of BP decides to have T'Challa realizing that he's sexually/emotionally attracted to another man?
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860541]Exactly.
So for discussions sake, how would you feel if some future writer of BP decides to have T'Challa realizing that he's sexually/emotionally attracted to another man?[/QUOTE]
Personally. I would have as affection for that writer as you do Hickman.
Probably moreso, because you cant un-out a character.
You can ignore Hickman and Liss take on a character.
I feel like a man like BP wouldnt hide his sexuality because he would not be embarrass by it or fear it in any way.
Alternate Reality TChalla would be up for grabs. No canon. Movie version I dont consider alternate reality since is the form that Marvel/Disney best represents the character.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;1860351]I think at this point it is obvious that it may be T'Chaka but who is going to play him?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ekie;1860357]Tchaka easily. hence the tears.
Maybe his mom?[/QUOTE]
The Black Panther movie doesn't come out till 2018. Do yall really think they're gonna waste such an important aspect of T'Challa story as a subplot of a Captain America movie?
Let's also not forget that would undercut Klaw as a villain, he's not in Civil War, so why give his most villainous act to another character?
And they're definitely not going to kill T'Chaka or the Queen Mother and not have T'Challa outright kill whoever is responsible. Trust if he thought Bucky or someone else was responsible for that he'd murk them regardless of circumstances.
And then there's this quote from the films producer Nate Moore:
[QUOTE]"eventually the film will draw him and his father out of the shadows.”[/QUOTE]
Pretty much every quote regarding Panther indicates that he's still a Prince and his father is still alive.
I'm also not getting why so many people keep saying T'Challa is crying in that scene. It seems more like a reaction to surviving a huge explosion than mourning someone who just died. You can still see flames and debris in the back ground of that moment.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860541]Exactly.
So for discussions sake, how would you feel if some future writer of BP decides to have T'Challa realizing that he's sexually/emotionally attracted to another man?[/QUOTE]
He did seem rather fond of "friend Ross". ;)
Seriously, tho, it's all in the implementation. One would hope that it would be written better than Bendis handled Iceman (or, indeed, Iceman), for example. Personally, based solely on his past portrayals, it seems to me that T'Challa isn't the type to let ANYONE get close to him emotionally, male or female. Not easily, anyway. It would take time, suggesting a story in itself, or at least a long-running subplot. Not just waking up one day and realizing he is attracted to his own gender.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860541]Exactly.
So for discussions sake, how would you feel if some future writer of BP decides to have T'Challa realizing that he's sexually/emotionally attracted to another man?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind too much but it would depend on how it was done in the story.
Having said that, I don't think it would go over well with fans or certain members of the general public.
My personal feeling is though I want T'Challa to have that great love affair/interest again. I think he deserves to have his Lois Lane/Mary Jane etc If it was up to me, I'd make it a black woman
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860572]Personally. I would have as affection for that writer as you do Hickman.
Probably moreso, because you cant un-out a character.
You can ignore Hickman and Liss take on a character.
I feel like a man like BP wouldnt hide his sexuality because he would not be embarrass by it or fear it in any way.
Alternate Reality TChalla would be up for grabs. No canon. Movie version I dont consider alternate reality since is the form that Marvel/Disney best represents the character.[/QUOTE]
Movie version technically is alternate reality though. I believe marvel and disney do want to capture the spirit and essence of the characters, but I don't necessarily think that will prevent them from altering things like sexual preference, or even race or gender in some circumstances.
I'm not saying they necessarily will or should do that with T'Challa or anyone else... but I think you can argue its just as up for grabs as any other alternate version from the 616 (or whatever number they're using now) version.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;1860591]I wouldn't mind too much but it would depend on how it was done in the story.
Having said that, I don't think it would go over well with fans or certain members of the general public.
My personal feeling is though I want T'Challa to have that great love affair/interest again. I think he deserves to have his Lois Lane/Mary Jane etc If it was up to me, I'd make it a black woman[/QUOTE]
Odds are pretty good for a solo movie he'll have some sort of love interest, just like every other solo character so far. Really it's a normal part of the formula for almost any sort of movie.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860522]I am not blaming Kieran for anything. Its been brought up before. A couple of other posters have brought it up. I just understand poster being defensive when they object to a character switching their sexuality like they switch their costumes. [/QUOTE]
I know you're not meaning to be disrespectful; but can you please stop comparing the complicated issue of people who've lived a life of denial finally coming out the closet as "switching their sexuality like they switch their clothes." It's a little... thoughtless. Coming out is a serious issue, you only need to look to Hollywood or every sport in the world outside of swimming (for some reason) to see how much struggle people go through. Numerous accounts of sportsmen and women considering suicide, because they hate keeping the lie. Being true to yourself is not like changing your shirt ;)
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860522]I have also heard that BP should be rebooted into a White guy.....because race doesnt matter.
I put both suggestions in the same bin[/QUOTE]
Then you'd be wrong; T'Challa's race is VASTLY more important to his character and history than his sexuality. To give them equal weight is to miss the point of the character.
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1860522]Heimdall being Black for Thor was purely changing a minor character to have the illusion of inclusion in a mostly white movie.[/QUOTE]
In all honestly: how much credance did you give anyone using the "but... but... he's white in the comic, and I have no problem with black characters in films, but... I merely wanted to see the Johnny Storm I READ for years being depicted as close to the character as they could on screen. And his race is SOOOOOOOO key to the fact he's a playboy and.... because the race is... like... I have no problem with black characters, but just stop trying to diversify my films, push KNOWN black characters, don't just suck off other established heroes for a quick boost"
Answer honestly... come on, we all saw through those.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1860541]So for discussions sake, how would you feel if some future writer of BP decides to have T'Challa realizing that he's sexually/emotionally attracted to another man?[/QUOTE]
It would explain why he's not fathered children. A prince's ONE JOB before becoming king is to provide two heirs (an heir and the spare to the heir). He's now king and he STILL hasn't???
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[QUOTE=XPac;1860604]Odds are pretty good for a solo movie he'll have some sort of love interest, just like every other solo character so far. Really it's a normal part of the formula for almost any sort of movie.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but it's a high profile genre picture starring a black man. Hollywood has a habit of either erasing the love interest, making her either latina or asian, or leaving the black girlfriend way in the background.