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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3262659]Considering the fact that some fans of Priest's BP run saw fit to disrespect Hudlin for writing what was supposed to be a 6 issue out of continuity BP series, (before Marvel Editorial decided to morph it into an in continuity monthly ongoing) Hudlin was under no obligation to be cordial to readers who chose to wilfully ignore the dynamics that governed the initial stages of his work at that time.[/QUOTE]
So it was because of the fans that he was disrespectful of Priest and resorted to race baiting? Not seeing the link.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3262659]It's not as if Hudlin's run had any of that movie synergy to bank on so to paraphrase my homie XPAC, let's just agree to disagree. :)[/QUOTE]
No movie synergy, no. But he had a big name artist for the first six issues, the first direct X-Men crossover in probably a decade and all the hype and effort that went into the marriage, not to mention hat anyone who bought a Wolverine subscription got a free one to his Black Panther
So yeah, he had far more of a helping hand than Priest ever did.
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Just popping to say that, as a former fan of the series, this latest revelation about the so-called true history of Wakanda is the last straw for me. I cannot defend that in any way, shape or form. Looks like you guys were right about him after all. I am dropping the title now. Will not buy another Coates-written book ever.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3263147]So it was because of the fans that he was disrespectful of Priest and resorted to race baiting? Not seeing the link.
No movie synergy, no. But he had a big name artist for the first six issues, the first direct X-Men crossover in probably a decade and all the hype and effort that went into the marriage, not to mention hat anyone who bought a Wolverine subscription got a free one to his Black Panther
So yeah, he had far more of a helping hand than Priest ever did.[/QUOTE]
[B]how was he disrespectful to Priest? I wasn't reading at the time but Hudlin has stated he and Priest are friends and he has a lot of respect for him. Still seem to get together occasionally and talk about things they bare excited for. So what exactly was said? Same with the race baiting, I'm lost on that[/B]
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3263147]So it was because of the fans that he was disrespectful of Priest and resorted to race baiting? Not seeing the link.
No movie synergy, no. But he had a big name artist for the first six issues, the first direct X-Men crossover in probably a decade and all the hype and effort that went into the marriage, not to mention hat anyone who bought a Wolverine subscription got a free one to his Black Panther
So yeah, he had far more of a helping hand than Priest ever did.[/QUOTE]
It just goes to show that celebrities and such probably should stay clear of posting on social media unless ot's done in a moderated environment. Unless you really know what you're doing, the risk reward isn'the in your favor. The whole muddy boots thing should be a cautionary tale for people. It's just too easy to say something you may regret later.
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[QUOTE=iblogalot;3263204]Just popping to say that, as a former fan of the series, this latest revelation about the so-called true history of Wakanda is the last straw for me. I cannot defend that in any way, shape or form. Looks like you guys were right about him after all. I am dropping the title now. Will not buy another Coates-written book ever.[/QUOTE]
Same here. That's the last book I buy for... another 3.5 years apparently. I hope the rest of you enjoy the new "nuanced colonialism" rendition of Wakanda.
Side note. Miles Morales is the 616's greatest black hero at the moment. Which is hilarious.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3262261]Somewhat of a wasted opportunity since, as we saw with Hydra Cap, protesting and petitions [b]does have an influence[/b] in this social media era. i.e. Nick Spencer immediately copping pleas to fans that Cap would turn out ok, which then led to the most pussified conclusion to Secret Empire in which Cap was alleviated of all sins and the heroes were groveling at his feet apologizing for ever doubting him. And then Marvel promising to make Cap "heroic again" moving forward.[/QUOTE]
The ending of Secret Empire was not changed by petitions. Cap was always going to be restored to his heroic self. Anyone who thinks that Marvel planned out a long term storyline where the ending was Steve Rogers remaining a fascist and that they only averted those plans due to a fan petition is plainly crazy.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3262319]Did anyone say they were?[/QUOTE]
If someone defends Coates' run on these boards, the response is usually along the lines of "this must be your first exposure to BP!" as if one couldn't be a long time BP reader and possibly appreciate Coates' run as well.
I hope Coates stays on BP for a long, long time just to drive the haters crazy. The reaction to his run among some here is completely unhinged.
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[QUOTE=Prof. Warren;3263265]The ending of Secret Empire was not changed by petitions. Cap was always going to be restored to his heroic self. Anyone who thinks that Marvel planned out a long term storyline where the ending was Steve Rogers remaining a fascist and that they only averted those plans due to a fan petition is plainly crazy.
If someone defends Coates' run on these boards, the response is usually along the lines of "this must be your first exposure to BP!" as if one couldn't be a long time BP reader and possibly appreciate Coates' run as well.
I hope Coates stays on BP for a long, long time just to drive the haters crazy. The reaction to his run among some here is completely unhinged.[/QUOTE]
I always thought it was fascinating how pretty much all the BP writers of the modern era ended up being so polarizing (except maybe Liss). I wonder if it's the character or the subject matter or the fan base or what.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3263206][B]how was he disrespectful to Priest? I wasn't reading at the time but Hudlin has stated he and Priest are friends and he has a lot of respect for him. Still seem to get together occasionally and talk about things they bare excited for. So what exactly was said? Same with the race baiting, I'm lost on that[/B][/QUOTE]
Under a different handle, that of 'Muddy Boots', Hudlin trashed Priest's work as too complicated and a few other things. My favorite is his trashing Priest for using King solomon's Frogs, a plot devise that Hudlin seemed unable to stop using.
And in the early beginning of his run, he claimed anyone who didn't like his run couldn't handle a strong African character.
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I remember the Muddy Boots controversy. Didn't Hudlin also try to have all of his Muddy Boots comments deleted as well?
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[QUOTE=Prof. Warren;3263265]The ending of Secret Empire was not changed by petitions. Cap was always going to be restored to his heroic self. Anyone who thinks that Marvel planned out a long term storyline where the ending was Steve Rogers remaining a fascist and that they only averted those plans due to a fan petition is plainly crazy.
If someone defends Coates' run on these boards, the response is usually along the lines of "[B]this must be your first exposure to BP[/B]!" as if one couldn't be a long time BP reader and possibly appreciate Coates' run as well.
I hope Coates stays on BP for a long, long time just to drive the haters crazy. The reaction to his run among some here is completely [B]unhinged[/B].[/QUOTE]
"If you don't like the same book I do, you're unhinged and crazy". LMFAO. Why am I getting vivid flashbacks to high school when people were arguing over Harry Potter?
The reason people think that it may be your first time read BP is that whenever people show up to this thread they lead of by saying that people here are only upset because T'challa isn't a Mary sue or some variation of that.
It's also REALLY difficult to believe that anybody that likes the story is a fan of T'challa himself. He was framed as an anti-villain, he was a head of state that refused to give up his power and he forced his people into a civil war because of it. I don't now how anybody can root for that guy. You don't root for the Empire during Star Wars so why are you rooting for the Wakandan government(T'challa)?
The very concept of this story doesn't work if T'challa is acting in character.
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[QUOTE=Prof. Warren;3263265]The ending of Secret Empire was not changed by petitions. Cap was always going to be restored to his heroic self. Anyone who thinks that Marvel planned out a long term storyline where the ending was Steve Rogers remaining a fascist and that they only averted those plans due to a fan petition is plainly crazy.
If someone defends Coates' run on these boards, the response is usually along the lines of "this must be your first exposure to BP!" as if one couldn't be a long time BP reader and possibly appreciate Coates' run as well.
I hope Coates stays on BP for a long, long time just to drive the haters crazy. The reaction to his run among some here is completely unhinged.[/QUOTE]
[B] The reason people say this must be their first time is based on what they actually say, not just because someone states they like the run. When people say " he is exploring things no other writer has done" or " he is Humanized T'Challa and made him relatable" or "his run is very deep and multifaceted" when literally every other run pre Coates have been deeper and multifaceted, all without relying on offensive stereotypes, it leads people to say that. Most people who have commented they like the run usually aren't very well versed in BPs mythos.
The main thing is that long time fans or big fans of Bp don't appreciate a bunch of stereotypes of Africa that Coates introduced. Why escape to comics to read about your favorite hero Being too"distracted" and mopey to stop rape on his country? Why read about your favorite hero going and getting advice for despots for how to deal with his people "just to see what they would say" they gets tricked by them (something even casuals were saying what the heck about)?
Coates has a very poor view of Black males, and it shows. So why should younger generation read this and start developing such a poor view of themselves? By someone saying " it's not realistic for him to want to be King" " it's not realistic for him to have that many beautiful women around him and not take advantage of it?"
He doesn't want to be King (continuity proves otherwise on multiple occasions) and he would rather indulge in being a scientist (while praising the likes of Doom and Maximus as being better then him essentially) instead of being King.
It's the message being sent and really, it's very poor because it's very offensive to everything the BP mythos stands for[/B]
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3263288]Under a different handle, that of 'Muddy Boots', Hudlin trashed Priest's work as too complicated and a few other things. My favorite is his trashing Priest for using King solomon's Frogs, a plot devise that Hudlin seemed unable to stop using.
And in the early beginning of his run, he claimed anyone who didn't like his run couldn't handle a strong African character.[/QUOTE]
[B]I guess I would have to see the interview or whatever it was that he says all this. Because when I have talked to him on another forum, he has nothing but positive things to say and has stated he and Priest are friends. I will say that his run and Priest are different beasts of the same coin, Priest Run is a political action thriller and Hudlin's is more Saturday morning cartoons, but nothing are equally good and one cannot do without the other.[/B]
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3263349]"If you don't like the same book I do, you're unhinged and crazy". LMFAO. Why am I getting vivid flashbacks to high school when people were arguing over Harry Potter?
The reason people think that it may be your first time read BP is that whenever people show up to this thread they lead of by saying that people here are only upset because T'challa isn't a Mary sue or some variation of that.
It's also REALLY difficult to believe that anybody that likes the story is a fan of T'challa himself. He was framed as an anti-villain, he was a head of state that refused to give up his power and he forced his people into a civil war because of it. I don't now how anybody can root for that guy. You don't root for the Empire during Star Wars so why are you rooting for the Wakandan government(T'challa)?
The very concept of this story doesn't work if T'challa is acting in character.[/QUOTE]
He didn't force his people into a civil war. A bunch of mind controlling villains did that. T'Challa ending up giving the people what they wanted.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3263363]He didn't force his people into a civil war. A bunch of mind controlling villains did that. T'Challa ending up giving the people what they wanted.[/QUOTE]
He didn't give them what they wanted, they took it from him by fighting him and his forces. There's a big difference between yielding and giving. Getting impeached isn't the same as stepping down. The "villains" weren't villains at all, that word implies that they were evil when they weren't.
The only people who had an evil motive were T'challa and those rapists. A head of state(who doesn't even want to be King) refusing to give away his power to the people who are suffering and mostly because of his decisions is always the villain.
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3263387]He didn't give them what they wanted, they took it from him by fighting him and his forces. There's a big difference between yielding and giving. Getting impeached isn't the same as stepping down. The "villains" weren't villains at all, that word implies that they were evil when they weren't.
The only people who had an evil motive were T'challa and those rapists. A head of state(who doesn't even want to be King) refusing to give away his power to the people who are suffering and mostly because of his decisions is always the villain.[/QUOTE]
I was in the gym today and I was thinking "is Tchalla and WK the villain" in this story? lol. Shuri had her villain moment when she said it was okay to be raped as long as the Golden City doesn't fall.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3263402]I was in the gym today and I was thinking "is Tchalla and WK the villain" in this story? lol. Shuri had her villain moment when she said it was okay to be raped as long as the Golden City doesn't fall.[/QUOTE]
I've been saying this for the longest time. T'challa sent his little sister into a fire-fight to basically tell the women of Wakanda that were that they needed to take one for the team. And then the coward couldn't face his own people in the late moments of the war and he got Changamire to do it for him. When they finally backed T'challa into a moral corner he basically just said "You all need me incase Doom come back so I'm staying a the head of state, whether you all want me to or not".
The last time they tangled, T'challa got his ass whooped, let Wakandans die and kissed Dooms feet and thanked him. T'challa will beat him with the force push next time though, I'm sure.
How anybody can actually claim to be a fan of Coates "T'challa(T'challa the man, I'm not talking about the story) is beyond me. It's 2deep4me.