-
[QUOTE=Nate Grey;3653198]So Adversary is more powerful than Mephisto? Is that what Marvel (well Coates) is basically saying?[/QUOTE]
Hard to say which is more powerful. Hell Lords power levels tend to go up and down depending on whether they are in own dimension or not.
But it's sort of moot in the sense that regardless of which is more powerful, both are powerful to the point where T'Challa will likely need a lot of help, a lot of resources, and a lot of prep to deal with.
-
[QUOTE=Cville;3653389]The real question is will he be able to show up to help her out in an xmen book.[/QUOTE]
From what we're seeing in X-Men Red, he likely will be able to do it. If he can help out Jean Grey, he should be able to help out Storm. But obviously that's up to the X-Men writers.
For what it's worth, when Coates puts out his Storm book I'll wager T'Challa will show up there at some point.
-
[QUOTE=Nate Grey;3653198]So Adversary is more powerful than Mephisto? Is that what Marvel (well Coates) is basically saying?[/QUOTE]
I think if we take a bird's eye view, Advesary was beat with the same power the defeated Mephisto. Except Storm was the conduit instead of Tchalla.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;3653394]From what we're seeing in X-Men Red, he likely will be able to do it. If he can help out Jean Grey, he should be able to help out Storm. But obviously that's up to the X-Men writers.
For what it's worth, when Coates puts out his Storm book I'll wager T'Challa will show up there at some point.[/QUOTE]
And I'll wager that he doesn't beat the villain while Storm watches....
I found the post I was thinking of:
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif]Allow me, then, to propose an alternate theory. And we'll let the thread decide which holds more weight:
Premise: Coates wanted to give Storm a powerup, riffing off the idea that she believed herself to be a goddess back in her first appearance.
1) He re-introduces the "goddess" idea in the date night issue.
2) He retcons the Panther God, so that it is no longer part of the Egyptian pantheon (or, indeed, the existing Orishas in the MU) but one of a new group.
3) He uses the story of the Originators to introduce the idea that human beings can become "Orishas" (faux-rishas?) if they are prayed to enough.
4) He has the Adversary attack Wakanda (a region he has shown zero interest in beforehand) to justify mystical intervention.
5) He stacks the deck so that the only solution that works (despite the Adversary being beaten much more easily in other stories) is to have the entirety of Wakanda "believe".
Result: Storm becomes, at least temporarily, a goddess, just in time for the end of the arc.
T'Challa, Klaw, Faustus, QDJ, the Originators, the Orishas, Ras the Exhorter, Kasper, Okoye, the Adversary, and everyone else in this dull storyline were there simply as dominos to knock over and end with Orisha!Ororo. Their actions were only important as steps towards that goal.
So, tell me, folks. Does that sound plausible?[/FONT]
-
-
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3653398]And I'll wager that he doesn't beat the villain while Storm watches....
I found the post I was thinking of:
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif]Allow me, then, to propose an alternate theory. And we'll let the thread decide which holds more weight:
Premise: Coates wanted to give Storm a powerup, riffing off the idea that she believed herself to be a goddess back in her first appearance.
1) He re-introduces the "goddess" idea in the date night issue.
2) He retcons the Panther God, so that it is no longer part of the Egyptian pantheon (or, indeed, the existing Orishas in the MU) but one of a new group.
3) He uses the story of the Originators to introduce the idea that human beings can become "Orishas" (faux-rishas?) if they are prayed to enough.
4) He has the Adversary attack Wakanda (a region he has shown zero interest in beforehand) to justify mystical intervention.
5) He stacks the deck so that the only solution that works (despite the Adversary being beaten much more easily in other stories) is to have the entirety of Wakanda "believe".
Result: Storm becomes, at least temporarily, a goddess, just in time for the end of the arc.
T'Challa, Klaw, Faustus, QDJ, the Originators, the Orishas, Ras the Exhorter, Kasper, Okoye, the Adversary, and everyone else in this dull storyline were there simply as dominos to knock over and end with Orisha!Ororo. Their actions were only important as steps towards that goal.
So, tell me, folks. Does that sound plausible?[/FONT][/QUOTE]
I think that is what we agreed on after the issue came out.
-
MCU T'Challa is more McGregor than anyone else. Obviously you can see Hudlin and Priest influences from Shuri and Ross (despite heavy changes to those characters) among a few other things. You can give Coates kimoyo beads and maybe some of the newer aesthetic choices, but story wise his T'Challa is completely different from his motivations to his problem solving methodology.
In talking about Hudlin, since most people seem to slight him and not give him credit outside of Priest ironically, you could argue he probably had the greatest tangible influence as a writer on the character, pre-MCU than anyone before him since the characters inception. He really drove home the A-list comic character vibe to the masses giving him that pop culture Shaft or Blade vibe. I also think he approached the character different than traditional writers, Hudlin drops a lot of pop culture satire and really tried to promote the character to the masses more than anyone else.
Obviously nothings in a vacuum and all the great BP writers built on the works that came before them, as in life. Look back at Hudlin's first arc he attempts to balance Wakanda’s past and possible future emphasizing heavily European colonization themes and how that has effected Wakanda and the continent. The MCU does a pretty great job of adapting that imo. Hudlin wasn't subtle with his writing and it was intentional, he emphasized many socio-political points that are fixtures of BP & Wakanda today. I also think he's probably the closest writer to Stan Lee & Jack Kirby in his interpretation & portrayal of T'Challa. He really followed their groundwork more to the letter than anyone else.
-
this was probably posted a few years back but I'm gonna post it again for Don
[video=youtube;6MOJUMTZLMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MOJUMTZLMA[/video]
-
Reggie!
[video=youtube;8IeUkGA_3dE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IeUkGA_3dE[/video]
I love it!
-
[QUOTE=Jabare;3653446]MCU T'Challa is more McGregor than anyone else. Obviously you can see Hudlin and Priest influences from Shuri and Ross (despite heavy changes to those characters) among a few other things. You can give Coates kimoyo beads and maybe some of the newer aesthetic choices, but story wise his T'Challa is completely different from his motivations to his problem solving methodology.
In talking about Hudlin, since most people seem to slight him and not give him credit outside of Priest ironically, you could argue he probably had the greatest tangible influence as a writer on the character, pre-MCU than anyone before him since the characters inception. He really drove home the A-list comic character vibe to the masses giving him that pop culture Shaft or Blade vibe. I also think he approached the character different than traditional writers, Hudlin drops a lot of pop culture satire and really tried to promote the character to the masses more than anyone else.
Obviously nothings in a vacuum and all the great BP writers built on the works that came before them, as in life. Look back at Hudlin's first arc he attempts to balance Wakanda’s past and possible future emphasizing heavily European colonization themes and how that has effected Wakanda and the continent. The MCU does a pretty great job of adapting that imo. Hudlin wasn't subtle with his writing and it was intentional, he emphasized many socio-political points that are fixtures of BP & Wakanda today. I also think he's probably the closest writer to Stan Lee & Jack Kirby in his interpretation & portrayal of T'Challa. He really followed their groundwork more to the letter than anyone else.[/QUOTE]
Ryan Coogler did the best job at adapting every Black Panther writers vision in this own Black Panther vision.
-
[QUOTE=blacksonic;3653564]Ryan Coogler did the best job at adapting every Black Panther writers vision in this own Black Panther vision.[/QUOTE]
I think he improved on BP's supporting cast and gave the other Wakandan's more agency than we've seen in other narratives outside of the Milaje and War Dogs. Shuri and M'Baku are the best examples. I'd argue Okoye as well even though Priest does a pretty good job with her character but the characterization is noticeably different.
EDIT- and I forgot about Killmonger. I think MBJ gave us a very nuanced Killmonger.
I think having T'Challa ultimately end Wakanda's isolationism, or at least open up a little bit, was an important creative decision the filmmakers made. This makes it more appealing and/or palatable to the mainstream audience also helped Nakia and N'Jadaka story arcs resonate more.
-
[QUOTE=Jabare;3653592]
I think having T'Challa ultimately end Wakanda's isolationism, or at least open up a little bit, was an important creative decision the filmmakers made. This makes it more appealing and/or palatable to the mainstream audience also helped Nakia and N'Jadaka story arcs resonate more.[/QUOTE]
And is comic accurate. It is one of T'challa's defining traits.
-
[QUOTE=blacksonic;3653564]Ryan Coogler did the best job at adapting every Black Panther writers vision in this own Black Panther vision.[/QUOTE]
The interesting thing is in a lot of ways he essentially was creating a new BP, because we never really saw T'Challa at this stage in the comics (at least until Rise). This was essentially a Year One BP, who JUST became king and was just learning the ropes. I think that actually gave him a lot of freedom to have his own take on the character apart from anything we've seen in the comics up to that point.
-
a nice review of BP 172.
[url]https://io9.gizmodo.com/black-panther-would-like-to-remind-you-that-storm-is-a-1825468881[/url]
love Coates work I thoroughly enjoyed his bp run and cant wait for next arc!
-
[QUOTE=XPac;3653632]The interesting thing is in a lot of ways he essentially was creating a new BP, because we never really saw T'Challa at this stage in the comics (at least until Rise). This was essentially a Year One BP, who JUST became king and was just learning the ropes. I think that actually gave him a lot of freedom to have his own take on the character apart from anything we've seen in the comics up to that point.[/QUOTE]
This may come as a shock, but I actually agree with this. :)
I find that the more I simply accept the fact that this is NOT the 616!Panther, in any of his incarnations, the easier it is to enjoy the movie for what it is... the story of a man of great skill and integrity being forced to confront not only the realities of kingship (and the choices kings must make) but also the idea that his father was, in the end, an ordinary human being who made some tough choices.
Would I have liked to have seen Priest's chessmaster, three steps ahead of everyone else? Of course. But that doesn't make Coogler's take WRONG... it just makes it DIFFERENT.
And, actually, in some ways, more entertaining, since movie!Panther leans much more on the "Indy Ploy", thinking fast on his feet (as the bit with the train stabilizers shows). True, he's not playing chess with the world... but for someone just starting out, that makes sense. I would not be surprised to see him thinking further ahead in BP2. :)