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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3719329]The difference is with SMvsFL... it got laughed at and moved on. Just like BatGod stuff.
With T'challa, it turned into a "he is a mary sue" level of discussion. Despite no one reading the issue and mssing the fact that Surfer was just fine lol.
[B]Ain't no one calling Spidey a mary sue despite being a super powered genius who dates super models and has precog and sticks to walls lol. [/B]
Yet, Miles shocks one too many people and here comes the complaints.[/QUOTE]
I love that Johnny Storm thinks of this as "The Parker Luck".
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3719322][COLOR="#000080"]Yeah, as long as he doesn't get weaker for leaving Wakanda, that's cool.
That's what should have happened with the KotD powers.
If you combine that with Shadow Physics, it should give him a limited power up of summoning a ghost army even if he isn't in Wakanda.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I think it would be more interesting if he could do more with the Shadow Physics both at home and abroad since it was just forgotten. But like you said before he should be consistent. The only real problem with giving him more power the closer he is to home (and really it would only be within the borders of Wakanda) is it would generate a lot of inconsistency for him. And a lot of complaining.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3719327][COLOR="#000080"]Leans more towards racism. Outrage towards Panther is off the charts compared to the others.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
This is on me for not paying attention, but is there a lot of outcry about the Panther from the more comic oriented crowd?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3719329]The difference is with SMvsFL... it got laughed at and moved on. Just like BatGod stuff.
With T'challa, it turned into a "he is a mary sue" level of discussion. Despite no one reading the issue and mssing the fact that Surfer was just fine lol.
Ain't no one calling Spidey a mary sue despite being a super powered genius who dates super models and has precog and sticks to walls lol.
Yet, Miles shocks one too many people and here comes the complaints.[/QUOTE]
The thing is no one can really accuse Spider-Man of being a Mary Sue because half the done he's down on his luck. It's not Spider-Man if Parker doesn't regularly have life crap on him. It's a part of his charm. He's the underdog nerd that wins in the end, but hes still gotta be an underdog nerd.
But certainly Batman gets his share of Mary Sue complaints. I certainly didn't invent the notion of Batgod or Bat Jesus... that's a thing too. Batman and T'Challa are rich good looking guys who have everything in the world. Which isn't to say that they don't have their share of problems too... but honestly I think to SOME degree you're supposed to write characters like that as Mary Sues a part of the time. Not all the time... put them on this high pedistol so you can knock them off it and watch them crash and burn, but at least I can see why people might feel that way.
The other thing about the arm bar is that it was an armbar. It's just quirky to say. If Storm beat Adversary with an arm bar or Batman beat Grundy with an arm bar, it would probably a bit more attention because there's something almost ridiculous to the point of being funny. So it sort of stands out more.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3719333]I love that Johnny Storm thinks of this as "The Parker Luck".[/QUOTE]
He's a super genius that can barely pay his rent though. Other genius are literally billionaires living in high tech fortresses... Spidey has a crappy apartment the average high school drop out could afford. Granted he did recently have the whole Parker industries thing... he clearly has the potential to be a lot more than what he is. But at heart Spider-Man is the common man barely getting by. It's just his thing. You can't change that long term.
It would be like making Tony Stark poor. You can play with the idea a little, but ultimately it's a different character if you go there.
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[QUOTE=Skedatz;3719343]I think it would be more interesting if he could do more with the Shadow Physics both at home and abroad since it was just forgotten. But like you said before he should be consistent. The only real problem with giving him more power the closer he is to home (and really it would only be within the borders of Wakanda) is it would generate a lot of inconsistency for him. And a lot of complaining.
This is on me for not paying attention, but is there a lot of outcry about the Panther from the more comic oriented crowd?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Yeah, there have been many Panther-related threads on this forum alone created just to criticize him for doing the exact same things as Cap, Daredevil, Spidey, etc.
It's toned down some over the past year or so but some posters would come into the BP thread to stir things up and cause people to get banned in the process.
One of the biggest problems with recent BP writers is that they ignore previous abilities and tech so that they could create new abilities or have him dependent on someone else.
He already had some of the tech in prior runs but the writer didn't bother to look it up.
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3719348]The thing is no one can really accuse Spider-Man of being a Mary Sue because half the done he's down on his luck. It's not Spider-Man if Parker doesn't regularly have life crap on him. It's a part of his charm. He's the underdog nerd that wins in the end, but hes still gotta be an underdog nerd.
But certainly Batman gets his share of Mary Sue complaints. I certainly didn't invent the notion of Batgod or Bat Jesus... that's a thing too. Batman and T'Challa are rich good looking guys who have everything in the world. Which isn't to say that they don't have their share of problems too... but honestly I think to SOME degree you're supposed to write characters like that as Mary Sues a part of the time. Not all the time... put them on this high pedistol so you can knock them off it and watch them crash and burn, but at least I can see why people might feel that way.
The other thing about the arm bar is that it was an armbar. It's just quirky to say. If Storm beat Adversary with an arm bar or Batman beat Grundy with an arm bar, it would probably a bit more attention because there's something almost ridiculous to the point of being funny. So it sort of stands out more.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Part of Parker's problems are of his own creation not because he's down on his luck.
The other part is that some of his fans enjoy seeing him being miserable. If he became successful, they wouldn't like the characters
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3719359]He's a super genius that can barely pay his rent though. Other genius are literally billionaires living in high tech fortresses... Spidey has a crappy apartment the average high school drop out could afford. Granted he did recently have the whole Parker industries thing... he clearly has the potential to be a lot more than what he is. But at heart Spider-Man is the common man barely getting by. It's just his thing. You can't change that long term.
It would be like making Tony Stark poor. You can play with the idea a little, but ultimately it's a different character if you go there.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Peter doesn't apply himself to science full-time because it would interfere with him being Spider-Man. That's a choice he makes everyday.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3719370][COLOR="#000080"]Part of Parker's problems are of his own creation not because he's down on his luck.
The other part is that some of his fans enjoy seeing him being miserable. If he became successful, they wouldn't like the characters
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Oh absolutely. I think a lot of people envision Peter as eternally this just out of college single guy just trying to get by. Just like T'CHalla is this African king and Stark is this billionaire playboy. You don't necessarily want to see them leaving those status quo roles indefinitely. You can change it short term... T'Challa can become guardian of hells kitchen and Peter can run Parker Industries. But inevitably I think most fans and writers for that matter want their guys returning to their established roles.
That's why Peter probably has less plot armor than any other A list character. Not that he doesn't have a lot of big wins under his belt, but marvel is never shy about having Peter look bad. For him, it's just the way it is. He doesn't need to be protected the way a Wolverine or a Batman might be.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3719374][COLOR="#000080"]Peter doesn't apply himself to science full-time because it would interfere with him being Spider-Man. That's a choice he makes everyday.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
It's not even that though. If Peter simply put a patent on his spider web formula he would probably be a millionare (if not a billionaire) without even needing to leave his home. If you're that smart, you can make money.
But aside from the whole Parker industries thing, marvel doesn't want Spider-Man to be a millionaire. It's just not his niche in life.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3719361][COLOR="#000080"]Yeah, there have been many Panther-related threads on this forum alone created just to criticize him for doing the exact same things as Cap, Daredevil, Spidey, etc.
It's toned down some over the past year or so but some posters would come into the BP thread to stir things up and cause people to get banned in the process.
One of the biggest problems with recent BP writers is that they ignore previous abilities and tech so that they could create new abilities or have him dependent on someone else.
He already had some of the tech in prior runs but the writer didn't bother to look it up.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Guess I'm glad I've spent time away from comic forums for a while then. That sounds like it was a fun time.
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[QUOTE=Skedatz;3719343]I think it would be more interesting if he could do more with the Shadow Physics both at home and abroad since it was just forgotten. But like you said before he should be consistent. The only real problem with giving him more power the closer he is to home (and really it would only be within the borders of Wakanda) is it would generate a lot of inconsistency for him. And a lot of complaining.
This is on me for not paying attention, but is there a lot of outcry about the Panther from the more comic oriented crowd?[/QUOTE]
Well, the practical application of shadow physics ended up being teleportation. Given he had teleportation under Hickman, and Eden under Coates I guess to a degree it's almost understandable that shadow physics took a bad seat. Whatever he was using under Hickman and using Eden seems much easier than using SHadow Physics, given that's potentially harmful mentally and physically.
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Batman is an in story overdog not just because his in story skills make him one, but because he's DC's most popular character.
And its not even close.
How many DC books in the top 10 right now feature Batman? You can read forum regulars railing about the Batgod on a daily basis if you care
to pay attention, but DC knows he sells comics.
So he gets a permanent mid 80's Hulk Hogan push where he has to be the center of everything and has to either win every fight or look REALLY good losing.
Recently, when DC got tired of being beaten up saleswise by Marvel they pretty much did just 2 things: Lower the cover price and put Batman in everything.
And it worked.
It's a recipe for disappointment to compare Bats push to any other character.
Batman is more over with DC fans than even Superman is (it takes Bendis to get heads to give a damn about Superman).
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With peter I think you have to separate things
Spider-Man, the super hero, is about as mary sue as you can get without people calling him one. tech out of his ass, genius, spidey kung fu, wall crawling, precog, superhuman strength, speed, reflexes... come on lol.
Parker, the dude, not so much.
For other heroes, that duality doesn't exist because they don't have secret identities.
(I honestly don't even think "parker luck" is a thing anymore and has turned into more of a meme at this point but whatever)
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[QUOTE=Skedatz;3719386]Guess I'm glad I've spent time away from comic forums for a while then. That sounds like it was a fun time.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]There were some epic posts in the previous BP thread prior to the CBR reboot.
People were going at it. I'm glad it's calmed down a lot since then.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3719413]Well, the practical application of shadow physics ended up being teleportation. Given he had teleportation under Hickman, and Eden under Coates I guess to a degree it's almost understandable that shadow physics took a bad seat. Whatever he was using under Hickman and using Eden seems much easier than using SHadow Physics, given that's potentially harmful mentally and physically.[/QUOTE]
I can see that, but it feels like a wasted concept for BP to just disregard.