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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3738975][B]Yeah except Tchalla also called Monica a goddess too but we know that isn't the case. Storm isn't s goddess. The change and butchery of the Wakandan pantheon was completely unnecessary and damaging all for a character that belongs to a different franchise entirely[/B][/QUOTE]
Various stories have implied Storm possibly being divine for quite some time now, so she already had her foot in the door as far as godhood goes. So her being a goddess isn't really a stretch at all.
Whether or not that can be applied to just anyone however is a different matter. I wouldn't agree anyone off the street can become a god with Wakandans (or anyone else for that matter) decided to worship them. But I guess we'll see how Coates handles it from here.
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Might be a moot point, anyway:
[B]X-MEN GOLD #35[/B]
MARC GUGGENHEIM (W) • Michele Bandini (A)
Cover by Phil Noto
• The X-Men versus the undead!
• Goddess versus god!
• [COLOR="#0000FF"]And Storm’s final battle?[/COLOR]
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
-
[QUOTE=XPac;3739336]Various stories have implied Storm possibly being divine for quite some time now, so she already had her foot in the door as far as godhood goes. So her being a goddess isn't really a stretch at all.
Whether or not that can be applied to just anyone however is a different matter. I wouldn't agree anyone off the street can become a god with Wakandans (or anyone else for that matter) decided to worship them. But I guess we'll see how Coates handles it from here.[/QUOTE]
[B] Except Tchalla would of been the obvious choice. You know, the actual protector or Wakanda (it would of still Been stupid to retcon the patheon but atleast it would of stayed in franchise)
No one anywhere else will acknowledge this stupid change. It will stick as much as "blue" will[/B]
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"Hey Marvel, you guys should really use Kasper Cole as he has great potential! But you shafted him on the name! How about 'Ghost Panther'?"
*reads that Marvel will release Ghost Panther*
"Yes!"
*reads "Ghost Panther, mashup of Ghost Rider and Black Panther"*
[ATTACH=CONFIG]67334[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739336]Various stories have implied Storm possibly being divine for quite some time now, so she already had her foot in the door as far as godhood goes. So her being a goddess isn't really a stretch at all.
Whether or not that can be applied to just anyone however is a different matter. I wouldn't agree anyone off the street can become a god with Wakandans (or anyone else for that matter) decided to worship them. But I guess we'll see how Coates handles it from here.[/QUOTE]
But there is one story in particular, written by Chris Claremont himself, that clearly established Storm as being nothing more than an extremely powerful mutant who some mistakenly likened to being a god.
Are we to now presume all mutants to be "gods" just off of Coates contrived fanfic?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3739760][B] Except Tchalla would of been the obvious choice. You know, the actual protector or Wakanda (it would of still Been stupid to retcon the patheon but atleast it would of stayed in franchise)
No one anywhere else will acknowledge this stupid change. It will stick as much as "blue" will[/B][/QUOTE]
Sure, if the writer decided he wanted to make T'Challa a god he might have worked. Or Shuri, if they decided to make her a god. Storm was already considered a goddess by Wakandans, so she was an easy choice but there are different ways this could have gone. But right now, we've got Storm.
Again, I'm still skeptical this would work with a person who's not already divine anyways... but I suppose we won't know for sure until the Wakandans try something like this again. If they ever try something like this again. Again, I do think it's a handy trick if it works on anyone... but I doubt that's the case.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3739862]But there is one story in particular, written by Chris Claremont himself, that clearly established Storm as being nothing more than an extremely powerful mutant who some mistakenly likened to being a god.
Are we to now presume all mutants to be "gods" just off of Coates contrived fanfic?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]They don't treat her like a goddess in the X-books.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3739885][COLOR="#000080"]They don't treat her like a goddess in the X-books.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
The often don't treat Thor and Hercules as gods in the Avenger books. It's sort of tough to consider a person a god when they're sort of your co-worker.
Gods I think are a bigger deal to the Wakandans because they still worship pantheon gods. But to someone like say Captain America, who orders gods around on a semi-regular basis, they're just really powerful super heroes.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3739760][B] Except Tchalla would of been the obvious choice. You know, the actual protector or Wakanda (it would of still Been stupid to retcon the patheon but atleast it would of stayed in franchise)
No one anywhere else will acknowledge this stupid change. It will stick as much as "blue" will[/B][/QUOTE]
I for one, wouldn't want to see T'challa worshipped as a "god. " (faux or otherwise)
I'm more invested in seeing him portrayed as a super genius intellectual Monarch of a superior nation of excellence.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3739885][COLOR="#000080"]They don't treat her like a goddess in the X-books.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
They surely don't.
She's all back of the bus over them sides.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739884]Sure, if the writer decided he wanted to make T'Challa a god he might have worked. Or Shuri, if they decided to make her a god. Storm was already considered a goddess by Wakandans, so she was an easy choice but there are different ways this could have gone. But right now, we've got Storm.
Again, I'm still skeptical this would work with a person who's not already divine anyways... but I suppose we won't know for sure until the Wakandans try something like this again. If they ever try something like this again. Again, I do think it's a handy trick if it works on anyone... but I doubt that's the case.[/QUOTE]
[B]No because the retcon Coates does show's that regular Wakandans ascended to godhood. So the "easy choice" is Tchalla. It's his book, his nation, and he is the protector and the one his people would more likely pray to. [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3739921][B]No because the retcon Coates does show's that regular Wakandans ascended to godhood. So the "easy choice" is Tchalla. It's his book, his nation, and he is the protector and the one his people would more likely pray to. [/B][/QUOTE]
I know you know that Coates only utilised his crappy recon as a convenient vehicle to elevate Storm at the BP mythos expense right?
Coates has no genuine love for T'challa or any of the core supporting cast that were in place before he initiated his nonsensical "No one man" rubbish so it's given that elevating anyone or anything to do with the BP mythos was never his intention.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3739921][B]No because the retcon Coates does show's that regular Wakandans ascended to godhood. So the "easy choice" is Tchalla. It's his book, his nation, and he is the protector and the one his people would more likely pray to. [/B][/QUOTE]
Eh... I'm still not sure I buy that Wakandans can literally transform anyone off the street into a god if they worship them. I still think it likely needs more than that. But I suppose we'll never know until they try it again.
As far as T'Challa … like I said, he was a possible choice as well. Not sure Coates or marvel would be all that interested in turning BP into a god. BUt if they wanted to hypothetically, I suppose they could have here. In Storms case, because she already has one foot in the door anyways, it was a pretty easy call. But they could have taken the story in other directions if they wanted to.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739933]Eh... I'm still not sure I buy that Wakandans can literally transform anyone off the street into a god if they worship them. I still think it likely needs more than that. But I suppose we'll never know until they try it again.
As far as T'Challa … like I said, he was a possible choice as well. Not sure Coates or marvel would be all that interested in turning BP into a god. BUt if they wanted to hypothetically, I suppose they could have here. In Storms case, because she already has one foot in the door anyways, it was a pretty easy call. But they could have taken the story in other directions if they wanted to.[/QUOTE]
One foot in the door based on what exactly?
Coates say so?
I'd wager more on Claremont the veteran Storm scribe over Coates the Johnny come lately neophyte.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3739907]They surely don't.
She's all back of the bus over them sides.[/QUOTE]
I can't think of an X-character that's had a longer, unobstructed streak of always being on a team, usually in charge.
I wouldn't say that X uses Storm best, but she's always at the forefront, even longer than Wolverine or Cyke (who've spent time dead).
Frankly, I think Storm needs a limbo dive, if only so that writers can bring her back to do something actually interesting with her.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3739959]I can't think of an X-character that's had a longer, unobstructed streak of always being on a team, usually in charge.
I wouldn't say that X uses Storm best, but she's always at the forefront, even longer than Wolverine or Cyke (who've spent time dead).
Frankly, I think Storm needs a limbo dive, if only so that writers can bring her back to do something actually interesting with her.[/QUOTE]
I think Claremont gave Storm such a push (arguably to the detriment of Cyclops), that when that pushed stopped and Cyclops became the focal point again it sort of came off as a demontion in the eyes of some.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739895]The often don't treat Thor and Hercules as gods in the Avenger books. It's sort of tough to consider a person a god when they're sort of your co-worker.
Gods I think are a bigger deal to the Wakandans because they still worship pantheon gods. But to someone like say Captain America, who orders gods around on a semi-regular basis, they're just really powerful super heroes.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Pac that's not true in the slightest. Thor and Hercules are always talking up their godhood in the Avengers and they often prove it time and time again. So no, Thor and Herc are not viewed like average Joe's.
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3739978][COLOR="#000080"]Pac that's not true in the slightest. Thor and Hercules are always talking up their godhood in the Avengers and they often prove it time and time again. So no, Thor and Herc are not viewed like average Joe's.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Sure they are talking up their god hood.... but that doesn't mean the other Avengers necessarily treat them any differently than anyone else simply because they are gods. They're respected teammates certainly... but they would get the same respect if they weren't gods. To most Avengers, it frankly doesn't matter.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739983]Sure they are talking up their god hood.... but that doesn't mean the other Avengers necessarily treat them any differently than anyone else simply because they are gods. They're respected teammates certainly... but they would get the same respect if they weren't gods. To most Avengers, it frankly doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]The Avengers treat them differently for sure, just read the books.
Don't confuse worshipping them with respecting their godhood.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739969]I think Claremont gave Storm such a push (arguably to the detriment of Cyclops), that when that pushed stopped and Cyclops became the focal point again it sort of came off as a demontion in the eyes of some.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that Scott was hurt by any of Claremont's writing during that period. Chris said back then that what he wanted to do was give Scott and happy ending ( marry Maddie) and have him semi-retired from the team. From then on the main focus of the X-Men was to be the 70's/80's characters with Storm as the leader ( Prof X was written out as well).
This didn't last because Marvel decided to do X-Factor, but that's another story.
I think Storm as wallpaper is more of a 2000's on thing as more recent editors/writer simply didn't have plans for her.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3739902]I for one, wouldn't want to see T'challa worshipped as a "god. " (faux or otherwise)
I'm more invested in seeing him portrayed as a super genius intellectual Monarch of a superior nation of excellence.[/QUOTE]
[B]I wouldn't either. But that would be better then T'Challa abd Wakanda being thrown under the bus for Storm.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3739902]I for one, wouldn't want to see T'challa worshipped as a "god. " (faux or otherwise)
I'm more invested in seeing him portrayed as a super genius intellectual Monarch of a superior nation of excellence.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Can't find him in his solo.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739933]Eh... I'm still not sure I buy that Wakandans can literally transform anyone off the street into a god if they worship them. I still think it likely needs more than that. But I suppose we'll never know until they try it again.
As far as T'Challa … like I said, he was a possible choice as well. Not sure Coates or marvel would be all that interested in turning BP into a god. BUt if they wanted to hypothetically, I suppose they could have here. In Storms case, because she already has one foot in the door anyways, it was a pretty easy call. But they could have taken the story in other directions if they wanted to.[/QUOTE]
[B] Except no one anywhere else is giving that any actual thought. It will be ignored. And yes they were regular people who ascended to godhood. No where did it say they were metas [/B]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3739990][COLOR="#000080"]The Avengers treat them differently for sure, just read the books.
Don't confuse worshipping them with respecting their godhood.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I don't believe there's an issue of Avengers I haven't read, and I can say pretty firmly that there are a good number of Avengers who are more respected than Hercules who aren't gods.
Not that they don't have a great deal of respect for Thor, but it's because Thor is Thor. Not because Thor is a god.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3740031][B] Except no one anywhere else is giving that any actual thought. It will be ignored. And yes they were regular people who ascended to godhood. No where did it say they were metas [/B][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]It's a plot point that won't be followed up outside the BP solo if it's ever mentioned again.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=ed2962;3739993]I don't think that Scott was hurt by any of Claremont's writing during that period. Chris said back then that what he wanted to do was give Scott and happy ending ( marry Maddie) and have him semi-retired from the team. From then on the main focus of the X-Men was to be the 70's/80's characters with Storm as the leader ( Prof X was written out as well).
This didn't last because Marvel decided to do X-Factor, but that's another story.
I think Storm as wallpaper is more of a 2000's on thing as more recent editors/writer simply didn't have plans for her.[/QUOTE]
A lot of stuff happened with Scott that I think did end up hurting him (though a lot of that was probably not directly under Claremonts control). But that's a whole other can of worms.
As for Storm, I'd say she's only wall paper if you compare her to how she was used as the height of Claremonts X-Men run. She had several books where she was the lead. It's less consistant than Wolverine or Cyclops when they are around... but I'd still say ahead of the majority of the core X-Men. But certainly she could be used better.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3740031][B] Except no one anywhere else is giving that any actual thought. It will be ignored. And yes they were regular people who ascended to godhood. No where did it say they were metas [/B][/QUOTE]
The book didn't say ANYTHING about the people who ascended to godhood.
But if we never see this again and it's just Storm that's elevated to godhood, that works too. I don't think we need Wakandans turning people into gods anytime they are in a jam. That's just too much of a plot device.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3740035]I don't believe there's an issue of Avengers I haven't read, and I can say pretty firmly that there are a good number of Avengers who are more respected than Hercules who aren't gods.
Not that they don't have a great deal of respect for Thor, but it's because Thor is Thor. Not because Thor is a god.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Read my post carefully. Who said that other Avengers couldn't be respected more? There are Avengers who are more respected than Herc. But they acknowledge and respect Herc's godhood.
Thor is Thor because he's a god. They weren't treating Eric Masterson the same as Thor Odinson.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3740051][COLOR="#000080"]Read my post carefully. Who said that other Avengers couldn't be respected more? There are Avengers who are more respected than Herc. But they acknowledge and respect Herc's godhood.
Thor is Thor because he's a god. They weren't treating Eric Masterson the same as Thor Odinson.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
And Eric Masterson frankly wasn't the hero Thor is.
Again, Thor is Thor because he's a hero. A hero who happens to be a god. There are plenty of gods the Avengers meet who they likely don't respect at all. In fact I'll wager the majority of gods the Avengers interact with (Thor and Herc being the obvious exceptions) are largely jerks.
To most super heroes, a god is just a powerful being who has lived a long time. Doesn't mean they are anymore or any less deserving of respect. When we see a scene with Thor, Cap, and Stark sitting talking do Stark or Steve treat Thor any differently than they really treat each other. He's a co-worker and a friend. If he wasn't a god they would treat him the exact same way.
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Let me see if I get this right:
Thor, Herc, and their ilk: Nigh-immortal members of extra-dimensional races with tremendous physical & mystical power: Not gods.
Ororo Munroe: Mutant offspring of ordinary human beings, until she received a mystical power-up that, near as can be determined, lasted a single issue: "sort of divine, anyway".
And that still doesn't explain why the Faux-rishas were able to be empowered by Wakandan prayers, but T'Challa couldn't be. Other than the RL reason that Coates WANTED "Blue" deified....
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3740284]Let me see if I get this right:
Thor, Herc, and their ilk: Nigh-immortal members of extra-dimensional races with tremendous physical & mystical power: Not gods.
Ororo Munroe: Mutant offspring of ordinary human beings, until she received a mystical power-up that, near as can be determined, lasted a single issue: "sort of divine, anyway".
And that still doesn't explain why the Faux-rishas were able to be empowered by Wakandan prayers, but T'Challa couldn't be. Other than the RL reason that Coates WANTED "Blue" deified....[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying Thor and Her are not gods. I'm saying the Avengers don't really treat them any different because they are gods. And in the same breath, the X-Men wouldn't treat Storm any different now that she might be a god in Wakanda.
To a lot of super heroes, gods are just very powerful people. They're not worshipped or even necessarily respected more, because frankly a lot of gods suck. People like Thor, Hercules, and Storm will be respected because they are deserving of respect even if they weren't gods.
BUt as far as Storms power up... I'm assuming it only happens when she's being worshipped. It gives her a power boost.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3738913]No, someone was merely suggesting that in Coates Captain America book, Wakandans might worship Steve to turn him into a god like they did Storm.
I was just saying it probably only works for characters like Storm who are sort of divine anyways. I sort of doubt anyone off the street can be turned into a god if Wakandans start worshiping them.[/QUOTE]
ok that is just foolish and petty. people should let it go. there is plenty of instances from canon that supports her being a goddess.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3738975][B]Yeah except Tchalla also called Monica a goddess too but we know that isn't the case. Storm isn't s goddess. The change and butchery of the Wakandan pantheon was completely unnecessary and damaging all for a character that belongs to a different franchise entirely[/B][/QUOTE]
storm is a goddess as of black panther issue 17.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739336]Various stories have implied Storm possibly being divine for quite some time now, so she already had her foot in the door as far as godhood goes. So her being a goddess isn't really a stretch at all.
Whether or not that can be applied to just anyone however is a different matter. I wouldn't agree anyone off the street can become a god with Wakandans (or anyone else for that matter) decided to worship them. But I guess we'll see how Coates handles it from here.[/QUOTE]
thank you excellent post
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3739492]Might be a moot point, anyway:
[B]X-MEN GOLD #35[/B]
MARC GUGGENHEIM (W) • Michele Bandini (A)
Cover by Phil Noto
• The X-Men versus the undead!
• Goddess versus god!
• [COLOR="#0000FF"]And Storm’s final battle?[/COLOR]
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99[/QUOTE]
I just spoke with Guggenheim about his version of storm versus Coates and he is doing his complete own thing. time will tell where his story will end but just from the conversation nothin he is doing will be long lasting just see how marvel stepped in and stopped him from marrying kitty and colossus.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3739862]But there is one story in particular, written by Chris Claremont himself, that clearly established Storm as being nothing more than an extremely powerful mutant who some mistakenly likened to being a god.
Are we to now presume all mutants to be "gods" just off of Coates contrived fanfic?[/QUOTE]
Claremont wrote this:
[img]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111274343/6035553-screenshot_20170902-012231.png[/img]
she was hinted at being one and Coates continued the narrative and made her an actual one.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3739885][COLOR="#000080"]They don't treat her like a goddess in the X-books.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
lolol this is true especially currently.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3739921][B]No because the retcon Coates does show's that regular Wakandans ascended to godhood. So the "easy choice" is Tchalla. It's his book, his nation, and he is the protector and the one his people would more likely pray to. [/B][/QUOTE]
storm before ascending to a goddess wasnt just a regular human. she was a potential omega level mutant, with latent magic abilities whose ancestor was a sorceress supreme, and lineage whose line extended back to the dawn of humanity. of we are using what happened to her as evidence of the earlier gods there is no way they were baseline humans.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3739969]I think Claremont gave Storm such a push (arguably to the detriment of Cyclops), that when that pushed stopped and Cyclops became the focal point again it sort of came off as a demontion in the eyes of some.[/QUOTE]
it came off as this to most storm readers/fans. after the annulment she was regulated to being logans side piece while Logan and cyclops paved the way for the direction of mutantkind. even when she finally took the mantle upon logans death she constantly questioned herself and was written as an ineffectual leader. this was nowhere near the skill and care Claremont wrote her as.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3740048]The book didn't say ANYTHING about the people who ascended to godhood.
But if we never see this again and it's just Storm that's elevated to godhood, that works too. I don't think we need Wakandans turning people into gods anytime they are in a jam. That's just too much of a plot device.[/QUOTE]
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GDDXA8Q9reo/WhY6H7lXDII/AAAAAAAAARc/NvvDg7H763o4eJUR-djYwDslSbbecu_iQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO019.jpg[/img]
[B]I mean.. pilgrims, heroes rose among them. Through faith ascended to godhood. Looks like regular people to me. But whatever you need to convince yourself it HAD to be Storm[/B]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3740432]storm before ascending to a goddess wasnt just a regular human. she was a potential omega level mutant, with latent magic abilities whose ancestor was a sorceress supreme, and lineage whose line extended back to the dawn of humanity. of we are using what happened to her as evidence of the earlier gods there is no way they were baseline humans.[/QUOTE]
[B] Except they were. Just regular people who rose to the occasion and turned into heroes who became gods through faith... I know stupid retcon but it Also show's that storm isn't a special case, just some bad Storm fanfic from the writer instead of actually being creative [/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3740048]The book didn't say ANYTHING about the people who ascended to godhood.
But if we never see this again and it's just Storm that's elevated to godhood, that works too. I don't think we need Wakandans turning people into gods anytime they are in a jam. That's just too much of a plot device.[/QUOTE]
And elevating Storm to "godhood" at the BP mythos expense, isn't a plot point?
You say some of the most hilariously funny things.