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[QUOTE=XPac;3776711]I don't think you need to read the ending of TRO to know that the universe is going to be restored at the end of the story. That's kind of a given. The only thing he didn't know was the part at the end where he travels back in time (or changes reality or whatever he did) to New Avengers 1. But since marvel editorial decided that everything still happened despite whatever T'CHalla did, for the most part he didn't need to know that part.
Starlin had the same problem when he was doing his Thanos stuff. He wanted to know where Thanos ends up with Hickmans stuff since he was writing Thanos stories concurrently, and didn't get an answer either. Better communication is probably something marvel needs to work on for this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]So why do you keep saying that Coates didn't know the ending of Secret Wars if it's that obvious.
It wasn't obvious that Wakanda would descend into third world bs.
It wasn't obvious that BP would be an ineffectual leader.
What became obvious is that Coates would tell a one-sided story about a MA rebellion against a "misogynistic" Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3776671][COLOR="#000080"]So if he didn't read the ending of Secret Wars, how does he know that Wakanda was restored. There was no Wakanda at the end of TRO but Coates begins his story with a fully restored Wakanda with the exception of Shuri.
Coates wanted to write a story of a dysfunctional Wakanda regardless.
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Coates: hey, before I start writing, what happens at the end of SW?
Editor: Wakanda is fully restored
Coates: ok thanks. So shuri is trapped in living death and wakanda is in disarray
Editor: dude wtf I just said Wakanda is fully restored
Coates: thanks, got it. Shuri is trapped in living death and wakanda is in disarray AND T'challa is distracted. Thanks for clearing that up
Editorial: .... **** it, I don't even care about Black Panther anyway.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3776747][COLOR="#000080"]So why do you keep saying that Coates didn't know the ending of Secret Wars if it's that obvious.
It wasn't obvious that Wakanda would descend into third world bs.
It wasn't obvious that BP would be an ineffectual leader.
What became obvious is that Coates would tell a one-sided story about a MA rebellion against a "misogynistic" Wakanda.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Given Wakanda was conquered and destroyed in Time Runs Out, having it in a state of decline was a reasonable take for Coates. He could of course have hand waved it all away as well if he wanted to … either direction would have worked. BUt he wanted to tell a story about a previously unconquered nation dealing with the consequences of several huge hits back to back. He was handed a Wakanda which was in a unique postion at the time, and rather than glossing over it decided to build a story around it.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3776789]Given Wakanda was conquered and destroyed in Time Runs Out, having it in a state of decline was a reasonable take for Coates.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Because if that was his take, Wakanda was down to like 2 thousand people
He obviously knew Wakanda was restored. Otherwise, his story would have started with Wakanda being nothing but ash.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3776643]Again, the thing is Coates didn't know the ending of Secret Wars when he started writing his first season. But he obviously did not disregard Hickmans stuff, as his run directly stems from it. All of the issues that Coates deal with are directly a result of the problems Wakanda suffered from in Time Runs Out. I think he made a stronger effort than most BP writers as far as addressing lingering issues from the previous run. He lost Storm, but got her back. His sister died, but he got her back. The Doras had left him, but he at least repaired that relationship (though they don't directly act as his body guards anymore).
Granted Hickmans ending (which again Coates didn't know at the time he wrote his season) hand waves a lot of those issues away by magically resetting reality, but marvels official editorial stance was that everything still happened so it was only as clean a slate as the next writer wanted it to be.
But either way, I do suspect the next writer will give himself a clean slate because that's what I have come to expect from BP writers. I would be impressed if they decided to actually work with that's there instead, but we'll see.[/QUOTE]
[B]The problem is, that it's more then just Hickmans stuff. The Dude started nearly every interview About BP with a "I don't like this, or I can't wrap my head around that"... Not exactly the guy you want writing a Story if they can't get into how the character works, on top of saying how much he loves xmen and didn't care for Tchalla and Storm but was rooting for storm and wolvy. He didn't even address important lingering issues, he retconned thing's that were cool and made them lame.. just because. Then he completely changed the patheon, and Wakandas society as a whole when it comes to gender roles.. so no, he didn't do better then previous writer's.
And if your going to compare Hudlin's changes, well at least his and sense and even then his Story wasn't supposed to be Canon but marvel made it so[/B]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3776756]Coates: hey, before I start writing, what happens at the end of SW?
Editor: Wakanda is fully restored
Coates: ok thanks. So shuri is trapped in living death and wakanda is in disarray
Editor: dude wtf I just said Wakanda is fully restored
Coates: thanks, got it. Shuri is trapped in living death and wakanda is in disarray AND T'challa is distracted. Thanks for clearing that up
Editorial: .... **** it, I don't even care about Black Panther anyway.[/QUOTE]
Wakanda being fully restored is a potentially separate thing from the multiverse being restored though. Unlike the rest of the world, Wakanda wasn't destroyed by an incursion... it was destroyed by Thanos prior to the final incursion. So restoring the multiverse doesn't necessarily restore Wakanda to the point it was prior to Thanos invading it. It CAN if whomever restores the multiverse decides to fix that too... but it's not necessarily a given. That's why Wakanda is in a potentially different situation than the rest of the world. Reversing the damange of the incursion doesn't necessarily fix everything.
That said, fictional marvel civilization restor themselves all the time. Asgard, Atlantis Latveria… they were all basically restored overnight without a magical plot device. So theoretically it could go either way. And to a degree it did. Wakanda wasn't fully restored, but it was in better shape than it theoretically should have been.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3776789][B]Given Wakanda was conquered and destroyed in Time Runs Out, having it in a state of decline was a reasonable take for Coates. He could of course have hand waved it all away as well if he wanted to [/B]… either direction would have worked. BUt he wanted to tell a story about a previously unconquered nation dealing with the consequences of several huge hits back to back. He was handed a Wakanda which was in a unique postion at the time, and rather than glossing over it decided to build a story around it.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Wakanda was fully restored. He didn't have to hand wave anything. Hickman had T'Challa do that with the Infinity Gauntlet.
The Incursions happened. Wakanda was destroyed along with the rest of Earth. Everything was restored to the point right before the 1st Incursion.
Wakanda was not in disarray then.
Coates decided that he wanted to tell a story of a dysfunctional Wakanda.
He had the MA blame T'Challa for everything that happened even though T'Challa was not in charge. Or did he not read that part too.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3776804][B]The problem is, that it's more then just Hickmans stuff. The Dude started nearly every interview About BP with a "I don't like this, or I can't wrap my head around that"... Not exactly the guy you want writing a Story if they can't get into how the character works, on top of saying how much he loves xmen and didn't care for Tchalla and Storm but was rooting for storm and wolvy. He didn't even address important lingering issues, he retconned thing's that were cool and made them lame.. just because. Then he completely changed the patheon, and Wakandas society as a whole when it comes to gender roles.. so no, he didn't do better then previous writer's.
And if your going to compare Hudlin's changes, well at least his and sense and even then his Story wasn't supposed to be Canon but marvel made it so[/B][/QUOTE]
What important lingering issues did he not address?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3776793]Not really. Because if that was his take, Wakanda was down to like 2 thousand people
He obviously knew Wakanda was restored. Otherwise, his story would have started with Wakanda being nothing but ash.[/QUOTE]
[B] Didn't you know? When Coates said the Wakandan army was stretched thin on that tweet it was because they were literally putting out the fires and Ash of dead Wakandans.. the problem with him using the time stone is that you cannot say Wakanda was conquered now because since it's back at 100% they obviously repelled Thanos and Co. So to the rest of the World (and those oblivious to what occurred) Wakanda is still unconquered[/B]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3776809][COLOR="#000080"]Wakanda was fully restored. He didn't have to hand wave anything. Hickman had T'Challa do that with the Infinity Gauntlet.
The Incursions happened. Wakanda was destroyed along with the rest of Earth. Everything was restored to the point right before the 1st Incursion.
Wakanda was not in disarray then.
Coates decided that he wanted to tell a story of a dysfunctional Wakanda.
He had the MA blame T'Challa for everything that happened even though T'Challa was not in charge. Or did he not read that part too.
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Hickman had T'Challa go back to New Avengers 1... before the destruction happened. So of course Wakanda wasn't in dissray… the Thanos invasion hadn't happened yet. That's not the same thing as restoring Wakanda after the invasion or preventing the invasion from happening in the first place.
The problem is marvel editorial stated that despite T'Challa going back in time, everything that happened in the story still happened.
As far as blaming T'CHalla for the things that happened... that's sort of understandable. Shuri was in charge of Wakanda during Hickmans run, but T'Challa brought the Illuminati and the Cabal into Wakanda completey without her knowledge. So that to a degree can fall on him.
In AvX, Shuri did know. So the lions share of that one falls on her. Still, one can't help but think the reason they were there is due to T'CHalla's friendship with the Avengers.
People on this very board have faulted T'Challa for some of Wakanda's problems. Not that I necessarily agree with those opinions, but I can see where they are coming from.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3776807][B]Wakanda being fully restored is a potentially separate thing from the multiverse being restored though. Unlike the rest of the world, Wakanda wasn't destroyed by an incursion... it was destroyed by Thanos prior to the final incursion. So restoring the multiverse doesn't necessarily restore Wakanda to the point it was prior to Thanos invading it.[/B] It CAN if whomever restores the multiverse decides to fix that too... but it's not necessarily a given. That's why Wakanda is in a potentially different situation than the rest of the world. Reversing the damange of the incursion doesn't necessarily fix everything.
That said, fictional marvel civilization restor themselves all the time. Asgard, Atlantis Latveria… they were all basically restored overnight without a magical plot device. So theoretically it could go either way. And to a degree it did. Wakanda wasn't fully restored, but it was in better shape than it theoretically should have been.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]T'Challa had the Infinity Gauntlet and used it to restore everything but he's not going to restore Wakanda fully? Shuri, Ramonda, the MA and many others died before the final Incursion yet they were restored by T'Challa and appeared in Coates run but Shuri was in death limbo. Even the Wakanda Science Team died before the final Incursion but they were restored as well.
Coates wanted to do dysfunction regardless of what happened at the end of Secret Wars.
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i haven't been reading the current arc. who are the main villains on this faraway planet?
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3776836][COLOR="#000080"]T'Challa had the Infinity Gauntlet and used it to restore everything but he's not going to restore Wakanda fully? Shuri, Ramonda, the MA and many others died before the final Incursion yet they were restored by T'Challa and appeared in Coates run but Shuri was in death limbo. Even the Wakanda Science Team died before the final Incursion but they were restored as well.
Coates wanted to do dysfunction regardless of what happened at the end of Secret Wars.
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At the time, it didn't look like he restored everything... it looked like he just went back in time to NA 1 and prevented the first incursion from happening. Honestly I think Hickman should have just had him restore reality rather than traveling back to NA 1 for whatever reason... though it was a nice scene.
As it stands, I think the official stance is that Reed and the FF fixed everything.
And I don't think we actually know Ramonda and the MA necessarily died prior to the incursion. We know the vast majority of Wakandans died, but the only one we know for sure was Shuri. Which is why she needed to be restored on panel.
But it's certainly true that Coates wanted to tell this story. He could have chosen to hand wave it away, but instead chose to deal with Wakanda reacting to what had happened to them. It's a position Wakanda has never been in, and may never be in again, so it was somewhat unqiue.
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;3776850]i haven't been reading the current arc. who are the main villains on this faraway planet?[/QUOTE]
Killmonger
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once the show drops, watch it, see what you think.
Ask yourself how many would support a BP comic set in the Marvel Animated Universe. I think you'll love the show but, of course, you might not. If you do, think about it.
It's also not what I would have done with BP on my own (making TV is WAY different than making comics) but it's way closer.