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[QUOTE=XPac;2278995]That's why it's important to show the heroes struggle.
Readers inherently know the hero will win and the villain will lose in the end (with a few exceptions here and there). Writers need to try and gets readers to suspend that inherent knowledge for the sake of actually generating some drama.
In this story in particular, the people have already sowed the seeds of their defeat. Yeah, the suicide bombers likely will create some discord in Wakanda but once it's uncovered and exposed that Zenzi and Tetu were behind that, they're essentially finished. Their relationship with Stane, while perhaps necessary in the short term, essentially was them screwing themselves over in the long term. So the villains have already shot themselves in the foot.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The Midnight Angels and the Dora Miljae will probably stand with Tehtu and Zenzi in the short run, but when they uncover what they've really done, even if they don't stand with T'challa, there is no way they're not going to want to put an end to "The People" . On top of that, T'challa has recruited one of the suicide bombers to his side. When the time is right, he'll probably "Blow" a whole in The People's plans as well.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;2279022]So assuming they appear in the movies, what are the odds Bast and Sekhmet will be actual gods and not aliens who fooled humans into thinking they were gods?[/QUOTE]
No way they appear as anything concrete.
And I don't want them to either. Alluding to them is enough
and i will say this (again x10000)... there isn't much difference between super advanced living thousands of years aliens and "gods" to us puny humans. How the hell would we know the difference?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2279036]No way they appear as anything concrete.
And I don't want them to either. Alluding to them is enough
and i will say this (again x10000)... there isn't much difference between super advanced living thousands of years aliens and "gods" to us puny humans. How the hell would we know the difference?[/QUOTE]
For me, I can buy movie Thor is just an alien due to him being way less powerful than his comic counterpart.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2278912]Fair point, actually. But the logic for choosing these characters in story escapes me. I mean, I can see contacting Storm, as a counter to Tetu, but what does "a really strong guy with steel-hard skin and a PI with a robot arm" bring to the table? Other than Netflix synergy, of course. This is even more confusing since he works with several powerhouses already, including one of the smartest heroes in the Marvel Universe, and someone with complete control over the EM spectrum.
[B](Hell, why contact Manifold when MAC has basically the same powerset?)[/B]
[/QUOTE]
He's more pleasant to be around that MAC is?
That would be MY reasoning.
And Storm, Cage and Misty are much closer to T'Challa than most of the peeps in the Ultimates are.
Reg had Monica and T'Challa being close. According to the Ultimates, T'Challa and Adam are NOT buddies.
T'Challa's had very few on-panel dealings with Carol before the Ultimates. And then only in the annual "how many heroes can we fit
in the same room" scenarios.
Out of the Female Avengers, T'challa'd be way closer to Wanda or Jan or even Mantis than Carol.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2278912]Fair point, actually. But the logic for choosing these characters in story escapes me. I mean, I can see contacting Storm, as a counter to Tetu, but what does "a really strong guy with steel-hard skin and a PI with a robot arm" bring to the table? Other than Netflix synergy, of course. This is even more confusing since he works with several powerhouses already, including one of the smartest heroes in the Marvel Universe, and someone with complete control over the EM spectrum.
(Hell, why contact Manifold when MAC has basically the same powerset?)
I just can't shake the feeling that these characters are in the story because Coates wants them there, not because the story needs them.[/QUOTE]
I think they were picked for theses reasons
1. they maybe are trying to relaunch the Crew comic
2 I'm petty much Manifold is going to character BP in up memtoring (TNC meamtion that T'*Challa would have a sidekick/mentoring someone a while back
3.Outside of Monica R I don't think T'Challa likes, trust and respects the Ultimates.. I think he respects them but I don't think he likes CM or BM all that much as ppl and is indifferent to Mac while maybe like he once Ewing is doing writing them..
4 while with characters like Cage, Doc Voodoo, O (when not written awfully) and Knight he's been shown to like, trust and respect them..
5. If they do relaunch the Crew QDJ and Kasper better show up..
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[QUOTE=XPac;2278995]That's why it's important to show the heroes struggle.
Readers inherently know the hero will win and the villain will lose in the end (with a few exceptions here and there). Writers need to try and gets readers to suspend that inherent knowledge for the sake of actually generating some drama.
In this story in particular, the people have already sowed the seeds of their defeat. Yeah, the suicide bombers likely will create some discord in Wakanda but once it's uncovered and exposed that Zenzi and Tetu were behind that, they're essentially finished. Their relationship with Stane, while perhaps necessary in the short term, essentially was them screwing themselves over in the long term. So the villains have already shot themselves in the foot.[/QUOTE]
All I want is for T'Challa to win his struggles because of HIS skills and intellect. I just have a bad feeling about this "Crew". And experience has taught me, in particular regarding Marvel, that these "bad feelings" usually end up being true.
(I'm also not really happy that the book isn't even finished with its first arc and is already being used as a launchpad for one, possibly two spinoffs. But hey, that's Marvel.)
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2279185]All I want is for T'Challa to win his struggles because of HIS skills and intellect. I just have a bad feeling about this "Crew". And experience has taught me, in particular regarding Marvel, that these "bad feelings" usually end up being true.
(I'm also not really happy that the book isn't even finished with its first arc and is already being used as a launchpad for one, possibly two spinoffs. But hey, that's Marvel.)[/QUOTE]
Truth be told, i much rather see a book about "The Crew" than a World of Wakanda. Not to say I won't enjoy the series, I just don't see interest being peaked enough with The World of Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;2279022]So assuming they appear in the movies, what are the odds Bast and Sekhmet will be actual gods and not aliens who fooled humans into thinking they were gods?[/QUOTE]
It will be interesting to see how they handle that, given the Asgardians have been established as not being gods. I imagine the issue will also potentially effect Dr. Strange.
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[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2279218]Truth be told, i much rather see a book about "The Crew" than a World of Wakanda. Not to say I won't enjoy the series, I just don't see interest being peaked enough with The World of Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
[B]This new version of the crew seems interesting sans Storm. Honestly that just leaves too much room for writers to take more pot shots at them and its not needed.[/B]
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When have misty and t'challa been together on panel outside the recent funeral?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2279316]When have misty and t'challa been together on panel outside the recent funeral?[/QUOTE]
A few years back Misty as running a heroes for hire team and asked for T'Challas help since he was already in hells kitchen.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2279316]When have misty and t'challa been together on panel outside the recent funeral?[/QUOTE]
Priest series.
That Heroes for Hire Superteam that Misty led.
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Misty and Luke would have appeared in a much anticipated new Netflix series by then or thereabout. So to me it was quite obvious why they were coincidentally (muhaha) chosen to be part of a black panther's 'crew' team up issue coming out around that same time. Manufactured bff since day one relationship with Misty be damned! lol
BP Luke and Misty is a cool dynamic anyway. Manifold is aight. I have no comment on any other members I may be forgetting, neglecting or otherwise ignoring.
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just came across this today, man David Liss really had a good understanding of the character! [url]http://marvel.com/news/comics/15924/fear_files_the_black_panther[/url]
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2279365]Priest series.
That Heroes for Hire Superteam that Misty led.[/QUOTE]
wait Priest's BP run or another Priest book?
Was misty part of those issues of Priest's run when IF, Falcon, and Cage showed up to fight all those villains (nightshade and such?)?
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MY bad Mindofshadow! That was actually Villains for Hire 0.1
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2278984]That is just comics for you.
No problem a hero can't solve.[/QUOTE]
In his or her own book. When that same hero is in a team book, suddenly they need a bunch of fellow heroes to help them.
Yes, this is a problem with interconnected superhero universes like Marvel and DC. Black Panther is not alone in this regard. Why is Batman ever in danger when we know he carries his Justice League communication/teleportation device on him at all times? How many of his regular adventures could be solved in minutes by ringing up one of his super friends?
[I]"Uh oh, the Riddler has kidnapped the mayor's daughter and is hiding her somewhere where he says she'll run out of air if I don't find her by midnight. He's left me a stack of riddles that contain clues as to where to look. I could waste valuable time using my detective skills to figure these out, [B]or[/B] I could call up my buddy Barry (or Wally, or Jay, or Bart, or Jenny) and ask him to run down here and search the whole city in 5 seconds and find her for me...hmmmm, what should I do?"[/I]
Marvel is worse off in this regard, as so many of their major heroes are in and around New York. Realistically, every issue of their titles should be team ups. I remember someone said years ago that there was an issue of Spider-Man that addressed this, where he needed help against some villain and the next couple of pages showed him going to the places like Baxter Building, Avengers Mansion, and the Xavier School trying to get other heroes involved by they were all coincidentally out of town at that moment, so Spidey was like [I]oh well, I guess I gotta do this myself.[/I] But I don't recall what issue that supposedly was.
But this is all part of the Suspension of Disbelief you must employ when reading mainstream superhero comics.
Although this sort of thing was part of background of Mark Millar's Wanted comic-book. The explanation being that back in 1986 all the supervillains realized that they outnumbers the superheroes 3 to 1, at least, and that if they ganged up and attacked all the heroes at once (instead of one at a time), they couldn't lose. And that's what they did.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2279397]wait Priest's BP run or another Priest book?
Was misty part of those issues of Priest's run when IF, Falcon, and Cage showed up to fight all those villains (nightshade and such?)?[/QUOTE]
A little after there (I think) was a story where Iron Fist got possessed by somebody caled the Dragon King. She doesn't have a major part but she is there and shown to
be familiar with T'Challa.
Its the same story where T'challa gets the anurism (from a possessed Iron Fist hitting him in his armored head with the Iron Fist repeatedly).
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[QUOTE=iblogalot;2279489]Marvel is worse off in this regard, as so many of their major heroes are in and around New York. Realistically, every issue of their titles should be team ups. I remember someone said years ago that there was an issue of Spider-Man that addressed this, where he needed help against some villain and the next couple of pages showed him going to the places like Baxter Building, Avengers Mansion, and the Xavier School trying to get other heroes involved by they were all coincidentally out of town at that moment, so Spidey was like [I]oh well, I guess I gotta do this myself.[/I] But I don't recall what issue that supposedly was.
[/QUOTE]
The Silver Age Marvel Comics tended to have scenes like that fairly often where the hero would ATTEMPT to get aid and/or info from other heroes, but
would not get anywhere.
Sometimes for dickish reasons like Reed being in the middle of an experiment which can't be interrrupted or Professor X being in the middle of
teaching the Xmen.
At a certain point, the heroes must have stopped even bothering to even try to get help from each other unless they were on the same team.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2279502]A little after there (I think) was a story where Iron Fist got possessed by somebody caled the Dragon King. She doesn't have a major part but she is there and shown to
be familiar with T'Challa.
Its the same story where T'challa gets the anurism (from a possessed Iron Fist hitting him in his armored head with the Iron Fist repeatedly).[/QUOTE]
man i don't remember her being there at all lol
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2279555]man i don't remember her being there at all lol[/QUOTE]
Yea she is there for like brief moment, like 2-3 panels tops
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2278878]He's definitely a comics fan: "I [B]hated[/B] the stories... until I actually read them." :D[/QUOTE]
Ha! Pretty much!
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2279185]All I want is for T'Challa to win his struggles because of HIS skills and intellect. I just have a bad feeling about this "Crew". And experience has taught me, in particular regarding Marvel, that these "bad feelings" usually end up being true.
(I'm also not really happy that the book isn't even finished with its first arc and is already being used as a launchpad for one, possibly two spinoffs. But hey, that's Marvel.)[/QUOTE]
I agree completely, I expect TNC to continue with his narrative/agendas with BP and Wakanda looking both awful until he gets board with writing them so..
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[QUOTE=mbeezy561;2279218]Truth be told, i much rather see a book about "The Crew" than a World of Wakanda. Not to say I won't enjoy the series, I just don't see interest being peaked enough with The World of Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
The Crew as presently constructed does indeed intrigue me. I like and respect all the characters and some very interesting stories could be told with them as a unit.
And any thug that puts Ororoe and T'Challa together without them fighting EACH OTHER is a plus for me
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[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;2279757]The Crew as presently constructed does indeed intrigue me. I like and respect all the characters and some very interesting stories could be told with them as a unit.
And any thug that puts Ororoe and T'Challa together without them fighting EACH OTHER is a plus for me[/QUOTE]
[B]If anything it's a fun line up. I don't care much for Storm being there but I could see then have fun adventures.
[/B]
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2279535]The Silver Age Marvel Comics tended to have scenes like that fairly often where the hero would ATTEMPT to get aid and/or info from other heroes, but
would not get anywhere.
Sometimes for dickish reasons like Reed being in the middle of an experiment which can't be interrrupted or Professor X being in the middle of
teaching the Xmen.
At a certain point, the heroes must have stopped even bothering to even try to get help from each other unless they were on the same team.[/QUOTE]
It's funny cuz by the 70's, if there was a threat logically someone would call the Avengers or someone, there'd be a throw away line like, "I'd call the Avengers or the FF, but they're out of town!" But Spidey and the Thing had no problem getting help when it came to their team up titles. Half the time the other hero would just happen to be walking down the street at that particular time.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2280245]It's funny cuz by the 70's, if there was a threat logically someone would call the Avengers or someone, there'd be a throw away line like, "I'd call the Avengers or the FF, but they're out of town!" But Spidey and the Thing had no problem getting help when it came to their team up titles. Half the time the other hero would just happen to be walking down the street at that particular time.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, most of the Marvel Team Ups ( Spider Man's team up book) and Marvel Two In Ones ( The Thing's team up book) was that those guys couldn't go anywhere in the 70's without something happening around them.
They would just be minding thier business when they would just stumble into the guest star of the month being attacked or attacking somebody else.
Very rarely did anybody ever ask those guys for help in those stories. They were mostly victims of circumstance.
One wonders why any bad guy would ever try anything in New York when any random
distubance could bring 3-5 c list heroes out of the woodwork plus Spider Man, Thing, Human Torch and/or Iceman to stop it.
I imagine some poor fool trying to rob a liquor store only to get jumped by Spidey, Namorita and Brother Voodoo who all just happened to be nearby.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2279365]Priest series.
[B]That Heroes for Hire Superteam that Misty led[/B].[/QUOTE]
Was this the one during Civil War?
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[QUOTE=memnoch;2279389]just came across this today, man David Liss really had a good understanding of the character! [url]http://marvel.com/news/comics/15924/fear_files_the_black_panther[/url][/QUOTE]
You could criticize a decent amount of things with Liss's run if you really wanted to
But, when it came to actual T'challa, he had the best combination of "priests prep" and "hudlins whoop ass fun" of any writer yet, despite T'challa being depowered and without his wakandan resources. He understood the character at least.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2279385]Misty and Luke would have appeared in a much anticipated new Netflix series by then or thereabout. So to me it was quite obvious why they were coincidentally (muhaha) chosen to be part of a black panther's 'crew' team up issue coming out around that same time. Manufactured bff since day one relationship with Misty be damned! lol
BP Luke and Misty is a cool dynamic anyway. Manifold is aight. I have no comment on any other members I may be forgetting, neglecting or otherwise ignoring.[/QUOTE]
I really doubt that a book that isn't even bothering to tie into pleasant hill or civil war II is adding luke and misty for Netflix synergy.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2280636]You could criticize a decent amount of things with Liss's run if you really wanted to
But, when it came to actual T'challa, he had the best combination of "priests prep" and "hudlins whoop ass fun" of any writer yet, despite T'challa being depowered and without his wakandan resources. He understood the character at least.[/QUOTE]
And I think that was sort of the point. Showing how dangerous he was without Wakandan resources. Cause let's fave it ... on paper Aunt May could be considered one of the most dangerous people in earth if they had Wakandan behind her. Relying on Radio Shack is another matter entirely.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2280638]I really doubt that a book that isn't even bothering to tie into pleasant hill or civil war II is adding luke and misty for Netflix synergy.[/QUOTE]
I really doubt that Misty and Cage poppin up around the same time that they debut in a much anticipated netflix series is pure coincidence and not a subtle timed attempt to cash in on any spiked interest those characters may have with viewers and potential new fans curious about the comics, without being creatively constrained to a big event with multiple writers and editorial involved... but you're free to doubt what you want of course. Clearly i don't care, word to t'challa. lol
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2280702]I really doubt that Misty and Cage poppin up around the same time that they debut in a much anticipated netflix series is pure coincidence and not a subtle timed attempt to cash in on any spiked interest those characters may have with viewers and potential new fans curious about the comics, without being creatively constrained to a big event with multiple writers and editorial involved... but you're free to doubt what you want of course. Clearly i don't care, word to t'challa. lol[/QUOTE]
I think internet gives Marvel comics too much credit honestly. They had to move T'challa's ongoing to coincide with CW at teh last second instead of doing it in advance.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2280739]I think internet gives Marvel comics too much credit honestly. They had to move T'challa's ongoing to coincide with CW at teh last second instead of doing it in advance.[/QUOTE]
Be as it may, the way they have it aligned, it's impeccable timing the way the crew is scheduled to land just as both Luke and Misty will be buzzing. Marvel's fuked up way too many times for me to ever give them absolute credit (or have absolute trust in them) but certain things just seem more transparent to me than others. And in this particular case, I applaud it. I like Misty and Luke being buddies with BP, even if the former has only been scantly affiliated with him in the past. I like Manifold too.
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Weird. BP wasn't in it but Bendis gave T'Challa quite the verbal fellatio in Iron Man today, via Carol Danvers.
Kinda crept up on me and i was thrown off guard.. had to re-read that part thrice and check who the writer was writing the book just to make sure i was actually reading what he (and not someone else) was writing correctly. And yes it was, Bendis-talk and all.
Call it the Bendis-skeptic in me but my first thought was:[I] clearly[/I] BP is going to switch sides on Carol next issue of CWII lol, the way he had Carol beaming about him.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2280840]Weird. BP wasn't in it but Bendis gave T'Challa quite the verbal fellatio in Iron Man today, via Carol Danvers.
Kinda crept up on me and i was thrown off guard.. had to re-read that part thrice and check who the writer was writing the book just to make sure i was actually reading what he (and not someone else) was writing correctly. And yes it was, Bendis-talk and all.
Call it the Bendis-skeptic in me but my first thought was:[I] clearly[/I] BP is going to switch sides on Carol next issue of CWII lol, the way he had Carol beaming about him.[/QUOTE]
Well, he was on the initial Team Iron Man art from the beginning, so it wouldn't be that unexpected.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2280840]Weird. BP wasn't in it but Bendis gave T'Challa quite the verbal fellatio in Iron Man today, via Carol Danvers.
Kinda crept up on me and i was thrown off guard.. had to re-read that part thrice and check who the writer was writing the book just to make sure i was actually reading what he (and not someone else) was writing correctly. And yes it was, Bendis-talk and all.
Call it the Bendis-skeptic in me but my first thought was:[I] clearly[/I] BP is going to switch sides on Carol next issue of CWII lol, the way he had Carol beaming about him.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that was weird lol
-
[QUOTE=Rumble;2280840]Weird. BP wasn't in it but Bendis gave T'Challa quite the verbal fellatio in Iron Man today, via Carol Danvers.
Kinda crept up on me and i was thrown off guard.. had to re-read that part thrice and check who the writer was writing the book just to make sure i was actually reading what he (and not someone else) was writing correctly. And yes it was, Bendis-talk and all.
Call it the Bendis-skeptic in me but my first thought was:[I] clearly[/I] BP is going to switch sides on Carol next issue of CWII lol, the way he had Carol beaming about him.[/QUOTE]
Bendis doesn't hate the Black Panther character. He just has no narrative use for him.
He probably hates Wonder Man and Hulk. Well I'm [B]sure[/B] he hates the Hulk because he had to have the marketing people
directly tell him to put Hulk in his Avengers Assemble series.
Which if you are doing an Avengers book that is linked to the movie you shouldn't have to be told.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2278995]That's why it's important to show the heroes struggle.
Readers inherently know the hero will win and the villain will lose in the end (with a few exceptions here and there). Writers need to try and gets readers to suspend that inherent knowledge for the sake of actually generating some drama.
In this story in particular, the people have already sowed the seeds of their defeat. Yeah, the suicide bombers likely will create some discord in Wakanda but once it's uncovered and exposed that Zenzi and Tetu were behind that, they're essentially finished. Their relationship with Stane, while perhaps necessary in the short term, essentially was them screwing themselves over in the long term. So the villains have already shot themselves in the foot.[/QUOTE]
Calling bs on this. T'challa isn't just "struggling" he's being writing out of character, nerfed and watered down. There are plenty stories where the hero "struggles" but also kicks ass doing it.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2280958]Calling bs on this. T'challa isn't just "struggling" he's being writing out of character, nerfed and watered down. There are plenty stories where the hero "struggles" but also kicks ass doing it.[/QUOTE]
If he's kicking Return amd Zenzi's @$$ then it does somewhat conflict with the notion that he's struggling against him. As it is, the bad guys themselves already believe Tetu's odds against T'challa is 1000 to 1. And that's against a struggling T'Challa. What would the odds look like against an @$$ kicking one? Odds get any worse and we're probably going to start feeling sorry for them.