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A universal threat. That's big talk for a guy who has never ever accomplished anything.
Oh, if only T'challa who defeated Logos, invented the means to escape multiversal collapse, defeated mephisto, subdued the silver surfer... If only this guy could *somehow* develope the means to take down a guy was was defeated by Forge and Dr. Nemesis.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3741940]Almost all the arguments made pro deification Storm could be made for T'Challa using Coates logic. Minus the whole she was a goddess before thing. I'm not saying I want T'Challa deified, I don't really, but, rather than explore and elevate Storm, Coates could have used; shadow physics, science out of nowhere (a common comic book trope), native Wakandans magic, Shuri's new powers, or whatever to elevate T'Challa or Wakanda to a new level in his own comic. It's just a shame about Coates dislike for T'Challa and his continuing what is now essentially 10 years of deconstruction of the Wakandans mythos.[/QUOTE]
He went all around wakanda protecting wakandans from monsters
He regained the support of the doras.
He fixed his relationship with storm.
He had support grom the elders.
He won back support of his ancestors.
His sister is back. Ramonda healthy. Qdj is back. Kasper is back. Okoye is back.
The story was set up for the protector of wakanda to ascend to godhood to beat back the adversary and seal the door like the orisha did with the full faith of wakanda behind him.
Aka he succeeds in re uniting wakanda as a whole.
You then would just have to figure out a way to depower him back.
One way is to have Bast return, as defeatong the adversary frees her. Tchalla bends tge knee, which strips him of godood. Bast reveals this was a test for her favorrd son to prove his worthiness... aka the petty **** gods do.
Tchalla reinsertrf as kong, doras back in the fold, everyone wins
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3742133]A universal threat. That's big talk for a guy who has never ever accomplished anything.
Oh, if only T'challa who defeated Logos, invented the means to escape multiversal collapse, defeated mephisto, subdued the silver surfer... If only this guy could *somehow* develope the means to take down a guy was was defeated by Forge and Dr. Nemesis.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]If only someone else were writing Black Panther.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3741984]One of the best things about comics is seeing your hero find a new way to beat impossible enemies. You are overjoyed at Coates deification of Storm , no? Solidification of how powerful and effective she can be? That is what we want in the BP comic. An imaginative writer could have written new aspects of whatever reasons I've given for T'Challa to defeat the Adversary. Shadow physics alone could have teleported the Adversary to the portal. Apparently that is it's only on panel use so far. What if it trapped the adversary in a teleportation mobius strip like trap to hold him long enough to get him through the portal. Or T'Challa calling on knowledge of one of the previous panthers to magically wisk Adversary into the portal, or Shuri's and her new powers. Just something new for T'Challa and Wakanda rather than some old tease about Storms being a goddess. Storm is already Uber powerful if not written that way. Did she really need a power upgrade? Wakandans limited publication history says they need more feathers than Storm.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you to a certain extent. Some comic book readers dont want to see characters to over-powered and prefer there be an element of realism to their abilities. That said, I am overjoyed and validated as a fan due to Coates recent development of her becoming a goddess because it made canon what Claremont hinted at many years ago. And maybe Adversary was not the best enemy. Historically speaking Adversary is not a character that could be defeated by conventional means and any portal that wasnt tied to some type of life force he would eventually get out. Also adversary is not a wakandan god so I'm not sure how well his ancestors would have been able to help him here. and I would say yes she needed this upgrade. again, when adversary first encountered her back in the 80s adversary was afraid of her; coates reveal explains why. I think based upon adversary history canonically coates story was spot on but maybe this villain wasn't the best one to best highlight the things some fans wanted to see.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3741914]What Wakandans were hurt during their covert mission, save Tchalla when O'roro and he fought?
[/QUOTE]
Being a member of the Wakandan Royal Family, anyone assaulting T'challa assaulted Wakanda by proxy.
You might as well ask how many American citizens were physically hurt by Russia's alleged covert attack on the most recent Presidential election in the USA?
Making excuses for the inexcusable is way easier though.
If the roles were reversed and Storm and her beloved X-men were rendered useless by an enemy in their own books only for T'challa to ride and save their collective ass, I somehow doubt that X-fans would accept such a ridiculous premise.
If you personally can't understand why core BP enthusiasts find what Coates has done to be highly offensive under the circumstances, then there's not really much to discuss beyond this point.
Peace.
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[QUOTE=dkrook;3742112]Well, we don't even know the extent of Shadow Physics. It's short of ignorance to assume T'challa would go through the steps of crafting it just to teleport. It could very well be used to defeat a universal threat you can't deliberately put your own limit to something that an author just didn't make time to expound upon.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]True. Coates took the easiest tech feats and made them seem like some amazing abilities. Teleportation? Farce Push? Nanites?
That's grade school isht in the Marvel Universe. That gets you a set at the table with the Tinkerer and The Fixer.
[/COLOR]
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Adversary was temporarily contained in Dr Nemesis consciousness. He wasnt defeated. also mephisto and silver surfer are not on the power level of adversary who was able to defeat Roma who is a goddess who is a multiversal threat. let's not kid ourselves here. and tchalla was able to defeat logos based upon the whole idea of methapors and due to the plane in which he battled logos. that wouldn't translate as the same on earth.
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[COLOR="#000080"]BK, Mephisto is a universal threat and I would say he's on the same level or above Adversary.
He doesn't use brute force, he uses guile and cunning.
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3742192][COLOR="#000080"]BK, Mephisto is a universal threat and I would say he's on the same level or above Adversary.
He doesn't use brute force, he uses guile and cunning.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Just as T'Challa uses guile and cunning. And, if as a society as advanced as it is,. Why would Wakanda not have some comic book reason to expel adversary, but X-Men do? In BP's own comic he can't come up with the resources to defeat a villian from another franchise. Poor craftsmanship on Coates part. I mean really. Goldballs got to defeat Klaw, but all of Wakanda doesn't get to port Adversary. Tsk, tsk. Way to build a franchise.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742206]Just as T'Challa uses guile and cunning. And, if as a society as advanced as it is,. Why would Wakanda not have some comic book reason to expel adversary, but X-Men do? In BP's own comic he can't come up with the resources to defeat a villian from another franchise. Poor craftsmanship on Coates part. I mean really. Goldballs got to defeat Klaw, but all of Wakanda doesn't get to port Adversary. Tsk, tsk. Way to build a franchise.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Coates has spent 2 years ignoring BP in his own solo.
Now he thinks he can make up for it by doing a spaghetti western in space starring T'Challa as the No Name stranger who rides into town and has to take down the evil empire.
"A Fist Full of Vibranium."
[/COLOR]
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"A Fistfull of Something".
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742235]"A Fistfull of Something".[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Heh, something is right.[/COLOR]
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And, until the X-Men stood up to a universal threat, they did not have canon to back them up. It was made up. Because it is comic book science fiction.
I know not much and care less about the character Gambit, but if, as a professional, I was given the task of writing him, I would try to make him look good and still attach my personal view on the world agenda to the story. Cause, umm, that is professional. You do not denigrate your product.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3741766]Where does it state anywhere in the scans you provided that the pilgrims that ascended to becoming gods were "just regular people"? O'roro as I have explained was not "just a regular" person. She has latent mystical abilities with an ancestor who was Sorceress Supreme during the time of Atlantis, she is a potential omega-level mutant, her bloodlines goes back to the dawn of humanity (white-haired women), and she was actually worshiped as a goddess in Kenya. She was exceptional and these qualities were unique. I don't think it would be a stretch to say the same about the original Wakandans who were able to ascend as well, especially when there is no proof that they were baseline humans.
[/Quote]
[B]Show me where it says they aren't regular humans, because that story clearly points to then being being regular people fighting for land they inhabited and insulted the denizens and bit anything special. Just heroes rose from the conflict. Storm is a mutant. And Coates butchered the BP patheon to give her a soon to be forgotten power up. [/B]
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3741984]One of the best things about comics is seeing your hero find a new way to beat impossible enemies. You are overjoyed at Coates deification of Storm , no? Solidification of how powerful and effective she can be? That is what we want in the BP comic. An imaginative writer could have written new aspects of whatever reasons I've given for T'Challa to defeat the Adversary. Shadow physics alone could have teleported the Adversary to the portal. Apparently that is it's only on panel use so far. What if it trapped the adversary in a teleportation mobius strip like trap to hold him long enough to get him through the portal. Or T'Challa calling on knowledge of one of the previous panthers to magically wisk Adversary into the portal, or Shuri's and her new powers. Just something new for T'Challa and Wakanda rather than some old tease about Storms being a goddess. Storm is already Uber powerful if not written that way. Did she really need a power upgrade? Wakandans limited publication history says they need more feathers than Storm.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3742192][COLOR="#000080"]BK, Mephisto is a universal threat and I would say he's on the same level or above Adversary.
He doesn't use brute force, he uses guile and cunning.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I thought his power was limited to the human realm on earth as his the ruler of limbo. when has he ever demonstrated or attempted to destroy the universe?
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3742175]Being a member of the Wakandan Royal Family, anyone assaulting T'challa assaulted Wakanda by proxy.
You might as well ask how many American citizens were physically hurt by Russia's alleged covert attack on the most recent Presidential election in the USA?
Making excuses for the inexcusable is way easier though.
If the roles were reversed and Storm and her beloved X-men were rendered useless by an enemy in their own books only for T'challa to ride and save their collective ass, I somehow doubt that X-fans would accept such a ridiculous premise.
If you personally can't understand why core BP enthusiasts find what Coates has done to be highly offensive under the circumstances, then there's not really much to discuss beyond this point.
Peace.[/QUOTE]
Ororo was attacking Tchalla as a a head of state. She attacked him as a fed up wife. It was tacky, poorly written and it should have never have happened in that way but if are to use your logic here it would have been wakanda attacking wakanda because as his wife she was very much still a part of the royal family.
what ororo was attempting to do by getting hope to save the earth is nowhere near comparable to the tactics Russians has used to influence the American election to get a president who would push policies more friendly to Russia.
and not making excuses simply stating facts. her fight with him was always and solely about him and her. she made that pretty obvious in the trash that was avx:
[img]https://www.abload.de/img/avsx-zone-016esd6g.jpg[/img]
storm was rendered useless against a cloud in ivx. I understand your frustrations; however, the difference between terrigen mist cloud/storm and tchalla/adversary is that ororo actually has the ability to beat and defeat a cloud and she was written ineffectual against it. tchalla with all his skill and might shouldn't be able to beat characters such as adversary on his own. that is why I don't mind how coates handled this encounter with adversary.
never said I dont understand. adversary may have not been the best threat to put tchalla against but considering adversary's history I don't see how tchalla would have defeated him without help.
[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742255]And, until the X-Men stood up to a universal threat, they did not have canon to back them up. It was made up. Because it is comic book science fiction.
I know not much and care less about the character Gambit, but if, as a professional, I was given the task of writing him, I would try to make him look good and still attach my personal view on the world agenda to the story. Cause, umm, that is professional. You do not denigrate your product.[/QUOTE]
well the xmen had help to beat adversary and it ultimately required them giving their lives. and even with sacrificing their lives he still came back to life as he cant be destroyed.
how tchalla was written imo wasnt a denigration of product. he was shown as a tactician who had the mental prowess to put together a team capable of defeating a universal threat. I think that was exceptional imo.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742261][B]Show me where it says they aren't regular humans, because that story clearly points to then being being regular people fighting for land they inhabited and insulted the denizens and bit anything special. Just heroes rose from the conflict. Storm is a mutant. And Coates butchered the BP patheon to give her a soon to be forgotten power up. [/B][/QUOTE]
I dont have to show you because coates demonstrated an actual metahuman transcending to a god via ororo. and in this detail he explained this power to being a god was in her blood. it is a better assumption to take what occurred with ororo in explaining how the original wakanda gods came to be versus assuming they were baseline him when there is nowhere in the story to suggest this.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742293]Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.[/QUOTE]
hmmm very interesting analysis never thought about it like this.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742293]Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.[/QUOTE]
I've answered that in a post days ago. Since Adversary saw Storm as a threat already, T'Challa could have used her as a distraction for the bigger trap he had set up. Killing two birds with one stone. Easy peasy, as I said on the earlier post. Pay attention.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3742176][COLOR="#000080"]True. Coates took the easiest tech feats and made them seem like some amazing abilities. Teleportation? Farce Push? Nanites?
That's grade school isht in the Marvel Universe. That gets you a set at the table with the Tinkerer and The Fixer.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
In all fairness, that's sort of the norm for T'CHalla. He's often somewhat of a minimalist when it comes to tech.
In Priests run, we were told T'Challa didn't even build armor for himself like Iron Man because he didn't need it (though later under Hudlin we would fine out he does use armor sparingly). For him it's usually more skill than tech. Does that mean he lacks in the tech feat department? You can make that argument. But he shines in a lot of areas where a lot of tech guys don't, so it balances out.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742303]I've answered that in a post days ago. Since Adversary saw Storm as a threat already, T'Challa could have used her as a distraction for the bigger trap he had set up. Killing two birds with one stone. Easy peasy, as I said on the earlier post. Pay attention.[/QUOTE]
Yes, he could have used her as a distraction. But again, the point isn't just to beat the adversary. It's to get Storm to win over the Wakandans. And obviously getting them to worship her achieves that. It also creates a degree of obligation on Storms part to Wakanda. Storm being a distraction doesn't achieve those points to the same degree.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742293]Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.[/QUOTE]
[B]Or, the writer can have Tchalla save his people, get his sister back, get the Dora's back on his side, repairehos relationship with Storm, and defeat the adversary, with Storm providing an assist and the same ending would of occurred, except this time it wouldn't be stupid and only meant to elevate blue [/B]
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742303]I've answered that in a post days ago. Since Adversary saw Storm as a threat already, T'Challa could have used her as a distraction for the bigger trap he had set up. Killing two birds with one stone. Easy peasy, as I said on the earlier post. Pay attention.[/QUOTE]
but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742319][B]Or, the writer can have Tchalla save his people, get his sister back, get the Dora's back on his side, repairehos relationship with Storm, and defeat the adversary, with Storm providing an assist and the same ending would of occurred, except this time it wouldn't be stupid and only meant to elevate blue [/B][/QUOTE]
Again, the point is to elevate Storm. He wants the Wakandans to accept her again, and Storm saving them achieves that more than Storm simply assisting in the background.
The very reason you have a problem with it is the very reason that T'CHalla himself probably did things the way he did... it put the spotlight on Storm for the Wakandans, which in turn got T'Challa the end result he wanted. T'Challa was more interested in mending fences between Storm and Wakanda than he was taking the credit for beating the Adversary. Frankly I doubt he gives a damn about the later. He knows it was all his plan and none of it could be responsible without him, and I"m sure that's more than enough.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742300]I thought his power was limited to the human realm on earth as his the ruler of limbo. when has he ever demonstrated or attempted to destroy the universe?
Ororo was attacking Tchalla as a a head of state. She attacked him as a fed up wife. It was tacky, poorly written and it should have never have happened in that way but if are to use your logic here it would have been wakanda attacking wakanda because as his wife she was very much still a part of the royal family.
what ororo was attempting to do by getting hope to save the earth is nowhere near comparable to the tactics Russians has used to influence the American election to get a president who would push policies more friendly to Russia.
and not making excuses simply stating facts. her fight with him was always and solely about him and her. she made that pretty obvious in the trash that was avx:
[img]https://www.abload.de/img/avsx-zone-016esd6g.jpg[/img]
storm was rendered useless against a cloud in ivx. I understand your frustrations; however, the difference between terrigen mist cloud/storm and tchalla/adversary is that ororo actually has the ability to beat and defeat a cloud and she was written ineffectual against it. tchalla with all his skill and might shouldn't be able to beat characters such as adversary on his own. that is why I don't mind how coates handled this encounter with adversary.
never said I dont understand. adversary may have not been the best threat to put tchalla against but considering adversary's history I don't see how tchalla would have defeated him without help.
well the xmen had help to beat adversary and it ultimately required them giving their lives. and even with sacrificing their lives he still came back to life as he cant be destroyed.
how tchalla was written imo wasnt a denigration of product. he was shown as a tactician who had the mental prowess to put together a team capable of defeating a universal threat. I think that was exceptional imo.
I dont have to show you because coates demonstrated an actual metahuman transcending to a god via ororo. and in this detail he explained this power to being a god was in her blood. it is a better assumption to take what occurred with ororo in explaining how the original wakanda gods came to be versus assuming they were baseline him when there is nowhere in the story to suggest this.[/QUOTE]
[B]The story states that man went inhabited the originators land and they Insulted them and so the originators attacked. There were some who rose up as heroes and then rose to god hood through faith. It didn't say, mutants, or metas or that they were anything other the pilgrims. Again it's what is show on panel and what wasn't shown or even said was that they were metas. [/B]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742324]but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?[/QUOTE]
[B] You should really just stop now. It's clear you don't care for T'Challa and this whole Mary Sue isht is beyond old. The fact your even using that as a reason is clear enough you only "care" about the BP mythos because Coates had turned it into a backdoor blue solo[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742332][B]The story states that man went inhabited the originators land and they Insulted them and so the originators attacked. There were some who rose up as heroes and then rose to god hood through faith. It didn't say, mutants, or metas or that they were anything other the pilgrims. Again it's what is show on panel and what wasn't shown or even said was that they were metas. [/B][/QUOTE]
storm by all technicalities is a human. so the fact that were call "men" or "man" doesnt take away from my point. so therefore storms transformation is probably the best example we have of how the original gods ascended. it would probably have been some kind of meta human with ties to divinity that would be able to do this.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742324]but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. [B]I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?[/B][/QUOTE]
No, he should remain grounded like the omega mutant, former queen, harlem repping, ascendant goddess that can apparently take down "universal threats".
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3741422]don't test me Marvel
Avengers 3: Marvel OPPOSED Black Panther fate, directors say it was 'NECESARY' - Why?
[url]https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/964824/Avengers-Infinity-War-Black-Panther-death-Loki-Vision-The-Snap-Thanos-Avengers-4-plot[/url]
[video=youtube;S9rockHC9c4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9rockHC9c4[/video][/QUOTE]
Maybe BP's success bugged the hell out of them and now they can sleep better at night.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742339][B] You should really just stop now. It's clear you don't care for T'Challa and this whole Mary Sue isht is beyond old. The fact your even using that as a reason is clear enough you only "care" about the BP mythos because Coates had turned it into a backdoor blue solo[/B][/QUOTE]
I dont care for tchalla because I'm pointing out he shouldn't be beating characters who are universal threats? no that is not how that will work and just because you don't like my opinions on the matter you most certainly do not have the authority to tell me to stop.
let coates story play out. we dont know yet what happened to the gods so before jumping to the conclusion of sayin who doesnt care about wakanda, step back breathe and let the story wrap up. the missing gods is clearly a loose end that will be tied up at a later point.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3742346]No, he should remain grounded like the omega mutant, former queen, harlem repping, ascendant goddess that can apparently take down "universal threats".[/QUOTE]
well if you had read ororo's original encounter with adversary, he was afraid of her. coates demonstrate in issue 172 why adversary was afraid of her so many years later.
and ororo has housed bast, as well as eternity, and healed the trion dimension on her own power. her defeating a universal threat with such a resume shouldn't be such a surprise.
sn: storm is a potential omega mutant and thank you for acknowledging tchalla shouldnt be beating characters like adversary on his own. he cant be a grounded character and do this.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3742339][B] You should really just stop now. It's clear you don't care for T'Challa and this whole Mary Sue isht is beyond old. The fact your even using that as a reason is clear enough you only "care" about the BP mythos because Coates had turned it into a backdoor blue solo[/B][/QUOTE]
I'll never read about "Blue" and not think of, "You're my boy, Blue!"
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742354]well if you had read ororo's original encounter with adversary, he was afraid of her. coates demonstrate in issue 172 why adversary was afraid of her so many years later.
and ororo has housed bast, as well as eternity, and healed the trion dimension on her own power. her defeating a universal threat with such a resume shouldn't be such a surprise.
sn: storm is a potential omega mutant and thank you for acknowledging tchalla shouldnt be beating characters like adversary on his own.[/QUOTE]
I can see why they are a good match up. Both can be defeated by locking them in a metal box.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3742357]I can see why they are a good match up. Both can be defeated by locking them in a metal box.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.echopulse.net/lj/storm_mad.jpg[/img]
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pC4gyzZuOWY/WsVvSgjls0I/AAAAAAAAEVA/P4pPUT7gCXgfSTfVLZFkZ4olQ77Miv_YACHMYCw/s1600/RCO006.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742324]but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?[/QUOTE]
Does defeating Adversary make Storm a Mary Sue? Right back atcha.
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Obviously you would use metal. Wood only works on Vampires and Alan Scott.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742293]Honestly I think the point was less to make Storm more powerful, and more to strengthen the bond between Storm and Wakanda, in both a meta and non meta sense.
In a meta sense, since Storm isn't a queen anymore and technically has no official role in Wakanda outside of being the kings girlfriend, this sort of gives her a role beyond simply being T'Challa's booty call.
And in a non meta sense, I think T'Challa essentially manipulated the situation so that Storm and Wakanda could get on the same page again now that he wanted to date her again. Obviously there was some bad blood following their break up, and getting Storm to become Wakanda's savior allows Wakanda and Storm to accept each other. Which obviously clears the way for T'CHalla to date her again without any poltical problems.
Obviously the MAIN objective had to be defeating the adversary. But T'Challa isn't above killing 2 birds with one stone.[/QUOTE]
Using Storm as an essential element to defeat Adversary and talking her up to the Wakandans ala Change mode talking down whomever the f+#@ it was is the same thing no. Lazy Coates.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742363]Does not defeating Adversary make Storm a Mary Sue? Right back atcha.[/QUOTE]
nope not if you are familiar with her continuity, as well as the xmen continuity relative to adversary.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/nBpT479KK5q7bU0vxDfK67CQuAbdQutqQkSq0eRfsEXqP7Z_BJDydM3uW9UMtaNlTKiQqX-efj3X=s1600[/img]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3742318]Yes, he could have used her as a distraction. But again, the point isn't just to beat the adversary. It's to get Storm to win over the Wakandans. And obviously getting them to worship her achieves that. It also creates a degree of obligation on Storms part to Wakanda. Storm being a distraction doesn't achieve those points to the same degree.[/QUOTE]
Really. To get my woman back I gotta make her a goddess?! Hope I never lose her. For fucks sake! Really?
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3742324]but again what in his arsenal would allow him fo keep adversary contained? he cant be hurt by physical means, not indefinitely. the instance that some users here reference when adversary fought forge and dr. nemesis wasnt even hurt enough to reveal his true form. I understand as a fan of tchalla you want to see him do cool things but dont you think beating a character like adversary would make him a Mary sue?[/QUOTE]
Obviously Adversary came back, so Storm and the X-Men did not completely defeat him. Why are you holding Wakanda to the same standard?
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3742368]Using Storm as an essential element to defeat Adversary and talking her up to the Wakandans ala Change mode talking down whomever the f+#@ it was is the same thing no. Lazy Coates.[/QUOTE]
Being an essential part of defeating adversary and being the one to defeat him aren't the same thing. That's why people are complaining about this in the first place... because they wanted T'Challa to beat adversary.
But conversely T'Challa wanted Storm to beat her to that she would get the lions share of the credit, which better achieves his secondary objective.
Again, from T"CHalla's perspective he doesn't give a damn if he beats adversary or not as long as he's beaten. But he does give a dam about Wakandans accepting Storm, and her being their savior does that to a greater degree than her being a distraction. Plus, there's Storms end of things if they perceive her as a god she likely will feel more obligated to involve herself in Wakanda.