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[QUOTE=XPac;3462308]As far as the MCU goes, Loki still has got to be considered da man. He's been used in multiple movies, so he's proven his lasting power.
That said, I'm not convinced we've seen the last of Killmonger so he may still have a shot at playing catch up.[/QUOTE]
I feel longevity was Loki's biggest strength (that and Hiddleston's carisma). I don't think people would say Loki is Marvel's best villain if we only had the first Thor movie to go by.
[QUOTE=The Whovian;3462342]Just thought I would post this for new fans of BP. It's Newsarama's 10 must read Black Panther stories of all time:
[url]https://www.newsarama.com/38600-10-greatest-black-panther-stories-of-all-time.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I feel that list could use another Priest story and Who Is the Black Panther is too high, but it's a good list overall.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3462470]I feel longevity was Loki's biggest strength (that and Hiddleston's carisma). I don't think people would say Loki is Marvel's best villain if we only had the first Thor movie to go by.
I feel that list could use another Priest story and Who Is the Black Panther is too high, but it's a good list overall.[/QUOTE]
I think those things go hand in hand though. You don't get long levity if you suck.
I don't think ANYONE can necessarily say they're the best villain with any credibility after just one movie. And I'd say the same for the heroes. I think they need to prove they are compelling characters on more than one occasion to really earn a top spot.
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;3462467]Spoilers below if you have not seen it yet...
Loki is used multiple times because Magneto and Dr Doom are tied up with other studios so that is more default than on purpose!
Let's review origins...
One villain was left for dead as a baby and adopted to live as a prince in Asgard which means that bills are paid in advance, the liquor is on the house and the women just throw themselves at he and his brother Thor who win wars off their father's already well established kingdom!
One villain as a fatherless child has to make it all work out on the streets of Oakland where gangbangers, pedophiles and drug dealers have their way all day every day!
One villain has access to the mighty throne and all it's vast protection and resources along with a Rainbow Bridge featuring unlimited frequent flyer mileage to anywhere in the galaxy!
One villain may literally had to deal with an eviction notice requiring him to eat out of garbage cans or shack up with local street hustlers and then find time to finish enough homework to qualify for a scholarship to one of the greatest technical schools like ever!
Pampered versus pimping... This isn't even close!
You need to fly into San Francisco FIRST look around carefully at the housing there and then drive across that long bridge into "Oaktown" and see how Killmonger (by movie canon) had to live before his journey got started!
I mean... Who graduates MIT with honors to join special forces just to kill people???
Whatever is going on in Killmonger's mind is far beyond anything Loki and his mischief can come up with... No one ever talked down to Killmonger for any reason whatsoever he commended respect day one!
(Shot his own girl... DAYUM)[/QUOTE]
I'm certainly not taking anything away with Killmonger ... he's a very impressive character that did amazing things given he had so little to start with. I think the only villain who potentially did more with less was Zemo.
But again... Loki's is a character that has become a mainstay in the MCU. And he's done so for a reason. Every other villain is going to need to play catch up to him.
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Let's see here...
One villain wins the throne through deceptive planning and backstabbing and the other throws dude off a waterfall cliff fair and square by Wakandan law with no trickery in front of everybody!
Loki is sneaky... Killmonger is point blank range in dolby surround sound 3D glasses realtime butt kicking in front of yo momz and them!
Killmonger: "Is this your king!"
W'kabi: "Wait let me get a selfie with this!"
Nakia: "Come on boo get up!"
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;3462581]Let's see here...
One villain wins the throne through deceptive planning and backstabbing and the other throws dude off a waterfall cliff fair and square by Wakandan law with no trickery in front of everybody!
Loki is sneaky... Killmonger is point blank range in dolby surround sound 3D glasses realtime butt kicking in front of yo momz and them!
Killmonger: "Is this your king!"
W'kabi: "Wait let me get a selfie with this!"
Nakia: "Come on boo get up!"[/QUOTE]
We also have to review that once Loki got the throne he just had plays about himself enacted for the public while Killmonger got the government and military on his side as he began trying to conquer countries
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[QUOTE=dkrook;3462400]I don't know, between Zemo and now Killmonger I think that regular smart guys that like to blow **** up have been giving Marvel heroes that work.[/QUOTE]
True, one put hands mentally on a entire team and broke them while the other took over two forms of power
To paraphrase Hamilton the Musical, “smart villains they get the job done”
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;3462581]Let's see here...
One villain wins the throne through deceptive planning and backstabbing and the other throws dude off a waterfall cliff fair and square by Wakandan law with no trickery in front of everybody!
Loki is sneaky... Killmonger is point blank range in dolby surround sound 3D glasses realtime butt kicking in front of yo momz and them!
Killmonger: "Is this your king!"
W'kabi: "Wait let me get a selfie with this!"
Nakia: "Come on boo get up!"[/QUOTE]
And that's certainly what makes Killmonger such a cool villain. He can actually beat T'Challa. Unfortunately most villains are so watered down, they end up looking like watered down jobbers compared to the hero after their first appearance. By some miracle, Killmonger has always managed to maintain a fair amount of credibility by having a descent amount of success against T'Challa. More villains should be written that way.
That said, Loki is a different sort of villain. He won't challenge you directly. He's smart enough to realize he can't win that way, and uses his whits to become a threat. It's a very different model of villain. Both are very cool though, just in differnent ways.
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how many more pages till we can change the thread title to "Wakanda Forever!" ?
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...why does it have to be a contest?
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[QUOTE=XPac;3462603]And that's certainly what makes Killmonger such a cool villain. He can actually beat T'Challa. Unfortunately most villains are so watered down, they end up looking like watered down jobbers compared to the hero after their first appearance. By some miracle, Killmonger has always managed to maintain a fair amount of credibility by having a descent amount of success against T'Challa. More villains should be written that way.
That said, Loki is a different sort of villain. He won't challenge you directly. He's smart enough to realize he can't win that way, and uses his whits to become a threat. It's a very different model of villain.[/QUOTE]
Marvel's pushing Loki in to more anti-hero comedy territory. He's still responsible for everything he did in Thor 1 & Avengers and frankly he basically got off completely for his crimes (yeah he was locked up in a luxury cell for a second).
His last two films he's helped to save the day and provided a lot of the comedic relief. Thor Ragnarok the mighty Loki is getting flung around left and right. Valkyrie, Doctor Strange, Thor. I don't know if he's going full anti0hero or about to have a heel turn.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3462617]Marvel's pushing Loki in to more anti-hero comedy territory. He's still responsible for everything he did in Thor 1 & Avengers and frankly he basically got off completely for his crimes (yeah he was locked up in a luxury cell for a second).
His last two films he's helped to save the day and provided a lot of the comedic relief. Thor Ragnarok the mighty Loki is getting flung around left and right. Valkyrie, Doctor Strange, Thor. I don't know if he's going full anti0hero or about to have a heel turn.[/QUOTE]
He's certainly in that tweaner territory at this point. It's what happens when heels get too popular I suppose... people want to cheer for them to the point where they need to either do a face turn or at least go tweaner.
But that's also part of the fun with Loki I suppose. You're never entirely sure if which side he's on (apart from his own). He's playing someone... whether that's the heroes or the villains is the question mark.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3462617]Marvel's pushing Loki in to more anti-hero comedy territory. He's still responsible for everything he did in Thor 1 & Avengers and frankly he basically got off completely for his crimes (yeah he was locked up in a luxury cell for a second).
His last two films he's helped to save the day and provided a lot of the comedic relief. Thor Ragnarok the mighty Loki is getting flung around left and right. Valkyrie, Doctor Strange, Thor. I don't know if he's going full anti0hero or about to have a heel turn.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it remains to be seen what side he'll be on in Infinity War and he does have the Cosmic Cube (I'm old school and don't use Tesseract) but I guess this cube is made from an Infinity Stone.
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But...
Killmonger did lurk in the background until it was time to make his move showing deceptive misdirection traits and then psychologically played everybody just when the time was right...
Killmonger: "Hey auntie!"
T'challa was beaten before they even started fighting because the family card was played to the full extent sucking all the air out of the room against the royal family!
The fact that he trained in so many disciplines from schooling to military and then came in fully prepared to exact his vengeful motive shows decades of patience beyond Loki just randomly finding out he is not of Asgardian royal bloodlines!
Loki whined like a spoiled kid to Odin sending him into his Odinsleep but if Killmonger caught a living King T'chaka somebody getting stabbed over that old school Oakland beef!
If Killmonger was king of Wakanda when Thanos shows up...
Thanos: "Quit playing I was only joking... I'm leaving sorry my man!"
King Killmonger: "BURN EM ALL... SEE WAKANDA AND DIE BEYOTCH!"
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;3462640]But...
Killmonger did lurk in the background until it was time to make his move showing deceptive misdirection traits and then psychologically played everybody just when the time was right...
Killmonger: "Hey auntie!"
T'challa was beaten before they even started fighting because the family card was played to the full extent sucking all the air out of the room against the royal family!
The fact that he trained in so many disciplines from schooling to military and then came in fully prepared to exact his vengeful motive shows decades of patience beyond Loki just randomly finding out he is not of Asgardian royal bloodlines!
Loki whined like a spoiled kid to Odin sending him into his Odinsleep but if Killmonger caught a living King T'chaka somebody getting stabbed over that old school Oakland beef!
If Killmonger was king of Wakanda when Thanos shows up...
Thanos: "Quit playing I was only joking... I'm leaving sorry my man!"
King Killmonger: "BURN EM ALL... SEE WAKANDA AND DIE BEYOTCH!"[/QUOTE]
He better have a power up if Thanos does show up...do it the Doom way. (you know I was going to bring that up ;) )
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My bad...
It's been a minute since I graced these hallowed halls so what's up fam things have been great over here son's in college wifey is still African yada yada yada California weather is still what it is and yes I am geeked about the success of this movie!
Hello to all the new Black Panther fans I'm just that crazy uncle on yo mamma's side that only shows up for free BBQ at the family reunion so pay me no mind!
Carry on... :cool: