-
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3685815]Let's talk "world building", shall we?
As mentioned before, the supposedly 2,000 year old Wakandan Empire uses a surprising amount of names from the late 20th century, but not every name comes from the comics. So, Coates must have come up with the other names himself, right?
Wrong. Almost every other name comes from European history, as related to the slave trade.
The planet Goree: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gor%C3%A9e[/url] . Of special note:
The Askari troops: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Askari[/url].
The Maroon rebels: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_(people)[/url]
The starship Mackandal: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Mackandal[/url]
[B]
The only one I'm not sure of yet is Daoud, the "King-Mule".[/B] But it would not shock me if he's a reference to historical slavery as well,
One wonders why Wakandans use so many terms from French/Caribbean history, and not ONE word from an African language....
In short, I was wrong. This isn't a generic sci-fi slave story…
It's a freakin' ALLEGORY. :P[/QUOTE]
Try mulatto = mule
[url]https://www.etymonline.com/word/mulatto[/url]
See if it fits in the story?
-
[QUOTE=LastManStanding;3685960]Try mulatto = mule
[url]https://www.etymonline.com/word/mulatto[/url]
See if it fits in the story?[/QUOTE]
Yep. Good work, BoG and LMS.
-
[I]i know this is a little late to post, but i just saw the move a week or so ago. i just have to say how much i enjoyed the black panther movie, i took my family with me and even bought an extra ticket for my beloved daughter/mantis girl 94/ that is no longer with us. she would have enjoyed it very much as well. all i have to say is that this move was long over do! i first read about t'challa and saw him in comic books around the time when i was 8 years old in the early 70's. he was in the avengers and was fighting some cave people along side his team mates. i think it was issue 110-120??? he was not on the cover, but i read inside and discovered him for the first time. he reminded me of wildcat /the old white boxer/ in dc comics, but he looked so much cooler and his fighting style was phenomenal from the start. i still remember 3 panels of him beating the cave people that i practiced over and over in my grand mamas living room. i wanted to be him very much at that time. it was some time later that i discovered he was black. i was somewhat taken aback /as a young white boy/ that one of my favorite heroes did not look like me. i went to schools in flint michigan that were all white at the time, and to be honest, it bothered me that one of the marvel heroes i wanted to be like did not look like me. feeling that way was one of the first of my many lessons in diversity and inclusion.
this does not have to do with the movie, but i want to tell you about it because it had a huge impact on my life. a few years later when i was still a teen a very beautiful mixed race girl was infatuated with me. i was very infatuated with her too. i decided to tell my friends at the roller rink who the new 'fox' was that liked me and i pointed over to a group of girls who young 'monica' was standing with. my so called friends said: 'you don't mean that N******* do you?' i was so shocked at what he said, but i was young and still a coward in a way when it came to rejecting the 'group mentality' that i said: 'no of course not, its the other one'. i was so ashamed of what i did that night that it bothered me for a long time and i swore to my self from that day that i would like or love who ever i damn well pleased. regardless of color, looks, age, or anything.
years later i do not know that if i made up for that night, but i did meet a young beautiful black lady who graduated from howard university in washington d.c., and we fell in love and later married. 2 children and 9 years later sadly it ended, but i have, since that day at the skating rink been open to dare and love who ever i wanted. black panther was one of the reasons why, if i could love him, why could i not love the world? he was a hero, he was of color, and that little boy in flint loved him, no matter if he looked like him or not.
several years later i married my current wife, also of color, and have had 3 wonderful daughters. mae was my oldest, who is no longer with us, but my last child born in 2010 was a surprise to us and we did not know if she was a girl or boy. we sat at our table a few months before she was born and wrote down possible girl names and possible boy names.
40 years almost since i first saw him, i am proud to say that on my list of boys names back in 2010 for my youngest daughter was the name 't'challa'.
that is how much he has effected me over the years. regardless of the story or rather he has his own magazine or not, i will always love him. i just wanted to share this with all of you black panther fans, and admit, that even a 50+ year old white man can get teary eyed during several moments in the black panther movie.
i hope the whole world sees this film and its significance for what it is. truly a huge step in diversity and our acceptance of all people, white, black, brown. we are all human. bless the black panther and the director and writer of the movie. you moved me to tears, and for that i thank you! [/I]
-
Podcast. My brother interviewed Geoff Thorne: [URL="https://www.spreaker.com/user/jljmedia/writing-for-marvel-comics-writing-for-tv"]Writing for Marvel Comics, Writing For TV, & the 3 Black Panthers with Geoffrey Thorne[/URL]
-
Hey all. Just finished reading Coates' new Black Panther #1 and honestly, I really enjoyed this issue! Here are my thoughts:
- I'm digging the idea of Wakanda becoming some tyrannical, intergalatic empire in the future. Yes, Wakanda is an ideal society and kingdom, but throughout history there have always been societies that though seemingly great can become corrupted. It appears as though Coates is showing that for all of its achievements, Wakanda is no different (Or perhaps it's best to say, "can be no different." Again, I'm getting the sense that this is a possible dystopian future). Furthermore, it seems to me that Coates is establishing T'Challa to be the one to perhaps topple the evil empire and return it to it's true glory.
- Speaking of T'Challa, his role as a hero in space is refreshing. Seeing him take down the evil guards and do gymnastics through some future space city reminded me Star Wars and particularly Captain America. Indeed, there have been a number of stories where Steve has been sent to a dystopian future or horrid dimension where he has led rebellions against the evil empire. It's a cool literary trope and given a new spin because, yes, we see a person of color in this particular role.
- Great post regarding Coates' use of history to inform his story. I caught the "Maroons" reference. Also, the explanation in the back of the Miners was quite informative and telling. Knowing nothing of their original history, being denied one's culture, the Miners reminded me a lot of African-American slaves.
- Beautiful art by Decuna!
I'm really liking this story. I like the themes, the use of history, the artwork. I'm definitely looking forward to future issues!
-
[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3686028][I]i know this is a little late to post, but i just saw the move a week or so ago. i just have to say how much i enjoyed the black panther movie, i took my family with me and even bought an extra ticket for my beloved daughter/mantis girl 94/ that is no longer with us. she would have enjoyed it very much as well. all i have to say is that this move was long over do! i first read about t'challa and saw him in comic books around the time when i was 8 years old in the early 70's. he was in the avengers and was fighting some cave people along side his team mates. i think it was issue 110-120??? he was not on the cover, but i read inside and discovered him for the first time. he reminded me of wildcat /the old white boxer/ in dc comics, but he looked so much cooler and his fighting style was phenomenal from the start. i still remember 3 panels of him beating the cave people that i practiced over and over in my grand mamas living room. i wanted to be him very much at that time. it was some time later that i discovered he was black. i was somewhat taken aback /as a young white boy/ that one of my favorite heroes did not look like me. i went to schools in flint michigan that were all white at the time, and to be honest, it bothered me that one of the marvel heroes i wanted to be like did not look like me. feeling that way was one of the first of my many lessons in diversity and inclusion.
this does not have to do with the movie, but i want to tell you about it because it had a huge impact on my life. a few years later when i was still a teen a very beautiful mixed race girl was infatuated with me. i was very infatuated with her too. i decided to tell my friends at the roller rink who the new 'fox' was that liked me and i pointed over to a group of girls who young 'monica' was standing with. my so called friends said: 'you don't mean that N******* do you?' i was so shocked at what he said, but i was young and still a coward in a way when it came to rejecting the 'group mentality' that i said: 'no of course not, its the other one'. i was so ashamed of what i did that night that it bothered me for a long time and i swore to my self from that day that i would like or love who ever i damn well pleased. regardless of color, looks, age, or anything.
years later i do not know that if i made up for that night, but i did meet a young beautiful black lady who graduated from howard university in washington d.c., and we fell in love and later married. 2 children and 9 years later sadly it ended, but i have, since that day at the skating rink been open to dare and love who ever i wanted. black panther was one of the reasons why, if i could love him, why could i not love the world? he was a hero, he was of color, and that little boy in flint loved him, no matter if he looked like him or not.
several years later i married my current wife, also of color, and have had 3 wonderful daughters. mae was my oldest, who is no longer with us, but my last child born in 2010 was a surprise to us and we did not know if she was a girl or boy. we sat at our table a few months before she was born and wrote down possible girl names and possible boy names.
40 years almost since i first saw him, i am proud to say that on my list of boys names back in 2010 for my youngest daughter was the name 't'challa'.
that is how much he has effected me over the years. regardless of the story or rather he has his own magazine or not, i will always love him. i just wanted to share this with all of you black panther fans, and admit, that even a 50+ year old white man can get teary eyed during several moments in the black panther movie.
i hope the whole world sees this film and its significance for what it is. truly a huge step in diversity and our acceptance of all people, white, black, brown. we are all human. bless the black panther and the director and writer of the movie. you moved me to tears, and for that i thank you! [/I][/QUOTE]
[B]This here was as good as another post talking about a Dad inspiring his Young kids that, even though Wakanda
is fictional, they can create their own Wakanda if they work hard[/B]
-
The one time my shop doesn't place spin-offs in my pull list... I'm mad. XD
#Intergalactic
-
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3685664]Which is why I’m hoping T’Challa falls in love with Nakia. It’s way past time for Storm to know what that shit feels like.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. I gotta say sorta over the title having Storm in it. T’Challa should be better then pining after her with all that has happened.
-
[QUOTE=Tien Long;3686290]the Miners reminded me a lot of African-American slaves.
![/QUOTE]
That's the point. Presented with the grace of a sledgehammer.
-
I saw a Priest inspired black Panther kids shirt at Target yesterday
IG is a nightmare so i'll just post the link to my BP IG
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/BjLtk37nm1g/[/url]
Kids today are so lucky!
-
Just finished BP #1
DAMN! That was great! Granted it definitely was carried by that art, but I still enjoyed it. I love the Maroon panther designs and am genuinely curious where this story will go. That being said, I felt similar to Coates first BP#1 so hopefully he doesn't make the same mistakes he made last time.
I hope by the end of this arc, the suit gets a mild redesign. It's a little too bland for my taste. I don't necessarily want him to change to the maroon design but something more in line with it.
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3686641]That's the point. Presented with the grace of a sledgehammer.[/QUOTE]
[B]Yes exactly. And it's all targeted at Wakanda. Wakanda has 3rd country stereotypes running rampant and Boko Haram elements, and to make the Monarch look worse, he gets advice from KNOWN despots.
Season Two makes Wakanda into a pilgrim analog, driving out the denizens and forcing them off their land in chains.
Now European slave trade analog, taking it a step further by using actual names and locations in the real life event. Evil Wakanda needs to be taken down and Tchalla will do it.. 3 seasons and it's all been about tearing down Wakanda and BP to prop up pet Characters, Storm, and TBD on S3.. the art was good and T'Challa whooped ass atleast and M'Baku and Nakia look cool, and the maroon armor should be applied to the HZ. Otherwise generic. [/B]
-
[B]Director Ryan Coogler opens up on the matter, and he's said this to The Toronto Sun.[/B]
[QUOTE]“I like Klaw. I was bugged by having to do that. It’s tough when you have to kill characters off and I really did love that character.”
He continued on to say, "I love Andy, he’s a lovely person,” Coogler exclaims, “But again, it’s one of those things where when you’ve got so many people in a movie, some of them have to go. Klaw in this movie, he’s just having a good time. Every scene he’s in, he’s walking in like it’s the best day of his life. He’s got a swagger to him that’s interesting and for me it was cool to see Andy act like that. It was a real pleasure.”[/QUOTE]
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3686795][B]Yes exactly. And it's all targeted at Wakanda. Wakanda has 3rd country stereotypes running rampant and Boko Haram elements, and to make the Monarch look worse, he gets advice from KNOWN despots.
Season Two makes Wakanda into a pilgrim analog, driving out the denizens and forcing them off their land in chains.
Now European slave trade analog, taking it a step further by using actual names and locations in the real life event. Evil Wakanda needs to be taken down and Tchalla will do it.. 3 seasons and it's all been about tearing down Wakanda and BP to prop up pet Characters, Storm, and TBD on S3.. the art was good and T'Challa whooped ass atleast and M'Baku and Nakia look cool, and the maroon armor should be applied to the HZ. Otherwise generic. [/B][/QUOTE]
I think a problem that will stem from this is that it won't have much re-read value. I appreciate the dialog, but one you read it once, you can speed through it it less than a minute.
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3687014][B]Director Ryan Coogler opens up on the matter, and he's said this to The Toronto Sun.[/B][/QUOTE]
[B]This is why if anyone is to come back, it should be Klaw. IW shenanigans makes him come back as his MU side (we a updated look. Imhe needs to look Cooler) it was a bit odd having 3 rogues In the movie since they are his most known. But Klaw should make a return [/B]
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3687090][B]This is why if anyone is to come back, it should be Klaw. IW shenanigans makes him come back as his MU side (we a updated look. Imhe needs to look Cooler) it was a bit odd having 3 rogues In the movie since they are his most known. But Klaw should make a return [/B][/QUOTE]
Killmonger and Klaw should come back
-
[QUOTE=Cville;3687025]I think a problem that will stem from this is that it won't have much re-read value. I appreciate the dialog, but one you read it once, you can speed through it it less than a minute.[/QUOTE]
Long term that is sort of the problem with stories that are based on a mystery.
I do think there is some value re-reading this story to try and find little clues about what exactly is going on. But once the mystery is revealed, the mystique is gone.
That said, apart from that the art and action are all handled as well if not better than any other book on the shelves right now, so that aspect along I think this give story some replay value.
-
[QUOTE=Cville;3687025]I think a problem that will stem from this is that it won't have much re-read value. I appreciate the dialog, but one you read it once, you can speed through it it less than a minute.[/QUOTE]
[B]The art Carried the issue. The issue Lacks meat and potatoes, the art has to play the appetizer and the main course because the dialogue and rest of the issue is super vague with random name drops with unknown faces[/B]
-
[QUOTE=blacksonic;3687116]Killmonger and Klaw should come back[/QUOTE]
Both of them die and return in the source material (multipe times in fact). So it's an easy call to make.
Given Klaw right now probably has more beef with Killmonger than Klaw, returnig them together might be interesting.
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3687090][B]This is why if anyone is to come back, it should be Klaw. IW shenanigans makes him come back as his MU side (we a updated look. Imhe needs to look Cooler) it was a bit odd having 3 rogues In the movie since they are his most known. But Klaw should make a return [/B][/QUOTE]
I’m really interested in seeing what Sound creature Klaw would look like in live action. But I still stand by my belief that Killmonger should stay dead.
-
I don't know about bringing back dead characters to be honest. Should have found a way to keep them alive if they planned on bringing them in future movies.
Like Mark Kermode said in his Kingsman: The Golden Circle review, "Once you start bringing people back from the dead who have been quite definitively killed in the first film, suddenly any sense of jeopardy the first film had goes out of the window".
Some people will say well Loki survived but to be honest Loki has never really died throughout any of the films at least within the runtime except for IW and the supposed "death" were rather ambiguous but hey if they have a good story to tell then fine.
-
Why would you resurrect dead characters? That just hurts the stories. Might as well just bring everyone back than
-
[QUOTE=Dboi654;3687189]I don't know about bringing back dead characters to be honest. Should have found a way to keep them alive if they planned on bringing them in future movies.
Like Mark Kermode said in his Kingsman: The Golden Circle review, "Once you start bringing people back from the dead who have been quite definitively killed in the first film, suddenly any sense of jeopardy the first film had goes out of the window".
Some people will say well Loki survived but to be honest Loki has never really died throughout any of the films at least within the runtime except for IW and the supposed "death" were rather ambiguous but hey if they have a good story to tell then fine.[/QUOTE]
Yep.
This isn't comics. They don't have to make stories forever.
You basically have two Black Panther movies and maybe 2 more Avengers movies staring Black Panther (not counting Av4).
If you want to make a "re-occuring villain" theme, then you have to find a way to keep them alive or die ambiguously. Killmonger was neither... the spear to the gut was rather final.
MCU has never had a retread besides Loki in Thor and Avengers. Every time Loki came back after Avengers, he was never the main villain.
There is no need to retread. Move on to the next villain and story. There are plenty of other directions you can go. BP's rogues are thin for comics and plenty big for two more movies.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;3687128]That said, apart from that the art and action are all handled as well if not better than any other book on the shelves right now, so that aspect along I think this give story some replay value.[/QUOTE]
I think that's where I diverge from most folks around here. Pretty art & cool action has its entertainment value, but without strong characters and an interesting plot, they are (IMO, anyway) empty calories. It's the comic-book equivalent of a "popcorn movie"... entertaining, sure, but you forget everything about it after 20 minutes.
Basically, I'm in it for the writing. =)
-
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3687171]I’m really interested in seeing what Sound creature Klaw would look like in live action. But I still stand by my belief that Killmonger should stay dead.[/QUOTE]
[B] Ultimately it's that I wanted to see live action sound Klaw. I feel like that fight would of been really cool and intense. There are Villains to be used still M'Baku for instance. Achebe, king cadaver, Baron macbre, I honestly would like to see the supremacists show up (new name) as a sinister 6 like team. I would be hesitant but Tetu and Zenzi could work too[/B]
-
Shuri will take over. It will be more then 3 Black Panther films.
-
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3687308]I think that's where I diverge from most folks around here. Pretty art & cool action has its entertainment value, but without strong characters and an interesting plot, they are (IMO, anyway) empty calories. It's the comic-book equivalent of a "popcorn movie"... entertaining, sure, but you forget everything about it after 20 minutes.
Basically, I'm in it for the writing. =)[/QUOTE]
For me a cool fight scene has the most replay value. Rather than watching a whole movie over and over again, I'll often just rewatch the fight scenes on YouTube.
But that's why this issue impressed me as much as it did. The aspect of comcis COates is weakest at is the action, but he's shown a lot of improvement here at least compared to his earlier stuff. That's nice to see.
-
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3687308]I think that's where I diverge from most folks around here. Pretty art & cool action has its entertainment value, but without strong characters and an interesting plot, they are (IMO, anyway) empty calories. It's the comic-book equivalent of a "popcorn movie"... entertaining, sure, but you forget everything about it after 20 minutes.
Basically, I'm in it for the writing. =)[/QUOTE]
It is kind of telling we see T'challa beat up unnamed goods and redshirts with pretty art and people lose their shit in excitement. Kind of sums up the last two years.
I like fight issues and do enjoy them but... there were no feats here. Nothing memorable. These are goons. The main characters is supposed to dispatch goons easily.
But, Coates writes for complete collections so... long journey. Whatever.
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3687440]It is kind of telling we see T'challa beat up unnamed goods and redshirts with pretty art and people lose their shit in excitement. Kind of sums up the last two years.
I like fight issues and do enjoy them but... there were no feats here. Nothing memorable. These are goons. The main characters is supposed to dispatch goons easily.
But, Coates writes for complete collections so... long journey. Whatever.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a little more than that. Yes, he's beating on red shirts, but he's beating on red shirts without his suit, any of his gear, or any of his resources. It's just him with literally the clothes on his back battling against a galactic empire.
It's not a battle board feat in the sense that he's fighting any A list villains. It's pretty unlikely Doom or Magneto is going to pop up anytime soon. But he is being placed in a position where he's the decided underdog ( something you often can't say about T'Challa given he's got the backing of the most advanced nation on the planet). So again, it's not a feat you can brag about in terms of putting it on a rumbles board. But it's a cool situation for the character to find himself in, because of the odds he needs to overcome.
-
[ATTACH=CONFIG]66292[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]66293[/ATTACH]
-
[QUOTE=LastManStanding;3687573][ATTACH=CONFIG]66292[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]66293[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Are you saying Coates is doing David Liss + with Star Wars?
-
[QUOTE=Cville;3687631]Are you saying Coates is doing David Liss + with Star Wars?[/QUOTE]
I mentioned this earlier, but weirdly enough this space setting does sort of remind me of Liss run.
Here's T'Challa without his suit, his gear, or his resources. His only weapon is his body and mind. Despite having obviously different settings, I think this story is actually handling the character in a somewhat similar way, and getting the same effect. It's highlighting that ultimately it's not about the vibranium or the tech or even Wakanda... it's about the man.
The could subtitle this the most dangerous man in the galaxy.
-
[I]i enjoyed the first issue of this new #1. I have been away from newer comics for a while, but this one was the best of what i picked up at the comic book store /way better than iron man's anniversary, or the flash war i read/
today i went back and read all of the posts on this thread that were written over the last few months, and it is obvious that many do not like the direction or the plots the current writer has taken, or is currently taking.
is this because former writers did a much better job, or is it because this writer has a history of messing up characters canons?
is there an earlier run by another writer that stands out as the definitive t'challa?[/I]
-
[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3687651][I]i enjoyed the first issue of this new #1. I have been away from newer comics for a while, but this one was the best of what i picked up at the comic book store /way better than iron man's anniversary, or the flash war i read/
today i went back and read all of the posts on this thread that were written over the last few months, and it is obvious that many do not like the direction or the plots the current writer has taken, or is currently taking.
is this because former writers did a much better job, or is it because this writer has a history of messing up characters canons?
is there an earlier run by another writer that stands out as the definitive t'challa?[/I][/QUOTE]
I'll let others explain why they may not like Coates, because I personally think his run is fine.
But as far as the definitive T'Challa… it's Christopher Priest. He's to T'Challa what Frank Miller was to Daredevil and Claremont was to X-Men. He defined the character for the modern era.
-
[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3687651][I]i enjoyed the first issue of this new #1. I have been away from newer comics for a while, but this one was the best of what i picked up at the comic book store /way better than iron man's anniversary, or the flash war i read/
today i went back and read all of the posts on this thread that were written over the last few months, and it is obvious that many do not like the direction or the plots the current writer has taken, or is currently taking.
is this because former writers did a much better job, or is it because this writer has a history of messing up characters canons?
is there an earlier run by another writer that stands out as the definitive t'challa?[/I][/QUOTE]
The Priest 1998 run is considered the definitive character. Reggie Hudlin does the definitive Wakanda. I like his Tchalla too though. It lighter, but enjoyable. If you want to see Tchalla as Batman, Liss is the way to go.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;3687650]I mentioned this earlier, but weirdly enough this space setting does sort of remind me of Liss run.
Here's T'Challa without his suit, his gear, or his resources. His only weapon is his body and mind. Despite having obviously different settings, I think this story is actually handling the character in a somewhat similar way, and getting the same effect. It's highlighting that ultimately it's not about the vibranium or the tech or even Wakanda... it's about the man.
The could subtitle this the most dangerous man in the galaxy.[/QUOTE]
Only way for that to happen is if he keeps up the pattern of not letting Tchalla have many lines like in the first issue. lol
-
[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3687651][I]is this because former writers did a much better job, or is it because this writer has a history of messing up characters canons?
is there an earlier run by another writer that stands out as the definitive t'challa?[/I][/QUOTE]
It's useful to note that the writer (Coates) doesn't have a history of messing up characters, simply because the Panther book was the FIRST time that he has tried to do fiction, in comic-book form or otherwise (All of his previous work was either non-fiction or autobiography).
And it shows.
I also consider Priest the definitive Panther, for the record.
-
[I]thank you everyone. i will look up these 'priest' books tonight. hopefully it is something i can easily find. i will let you know what i think after i can read them. i am certain i do not want to see t'challa as batman, so i will avoid those books.[/I]
-
This might help:
[url]https://www.amazon.com/Black-Panther-Christopher-Priest-Collection/dp/0785192670[/url]
Links to the other three volumes are farther down that page. :)
-
black panther issue is going to second prints of issue 1:
[url]https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/05/25/champions-black-panther-second-prints/[/url]