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[QUOTE=Holt;1616480]It actually makes sense to me. Hudlin's sold very well so it's much easier to pick apart because much more people have it as a frame of reference. Even on the Wikipedia page for Black Panther they have it listed with some reviews. It also has the distinction of containing a lot of the moments haters love to bring up whenever they try to make their argument that Black Panther is a shitty character and a Mary Sue (I fucking hate that term by the way).
By contrast, I don't think enough people read Klaws of the Panther or Doomwar to have strong opinions about them.[B] Shuri isn't well liked among Black Panther fans[/B] and outside of the core fanbase, the people who don't dislike her probably don't care about her one way or another. She wasn't pushed or integrated into the Marvel Universe effectively like a lot of the more recent new female heroes, so she probably doesn't register to many people. I don't remember her getting much crossover play outside of a guest spot in The Defenders and an issue of Mark Waid's Daredevil.[/QUOTE]
She isn't? Why so?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1616479][B]Mayberry destroyed 3 supporting characters from The BP mythos... Then Shuri from Hickmans run ontop of just putting others in Limbo, it doesn't allow growth of the characters and there are alot of great characters to use. All of which can fit in different roles and add a ton of depth to the mythos, they can have Wakanda youth, they can explore the Dora's and the hatut zeraze.. So much potential thats not being used [/B][/QUOTE]
Indeed.
If I had it my way, I would make Wakanda a comic book world in of itself. There are more than enough supporting characters (friends and foe), political intruige, and plenty of other things that haven't been touch in Wakanda that you could make a story with a major threat, from earth or cosmic or otherwise, mostly based in Wakanda.
Some other have done Wakanda based stories but it usually involved the usual political uprising story we've seen before (though most of them were good, in there defense). Wakanda dealing with a major cosmic threat, while using good characterization of T'Challa and his supporting cast, can be a great story.
Maybe there's more to Coates story than the typical uprising story. I'm really hoping so.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;1616513]And I don't think her appearance in that Daredevil issue was very flattering...[/QUOTE]
It wasn't. Fit the character but if I was a "Black Panther outsider," I probably wouldn't like her based on that issue.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1616942]She isn't? Why so?[/QUOTE]
I think it should say, "wasn't" instead if isn't.
People liking Shuri is a relatively recent development
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1617121]I think it should say, "wasn't" instead if isn't.
People liking Shuri is a relatively recent development[/QUOTE]
I'll play along. Why wasn't she liked? And what changed?
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1617186]I'll play along. Why wasn't she liked? And what changed?[/QUOTE]
For one thing, a lot of people resented her because Marvel made the decision to focus on her as Black Panther and put T'challa and Ororo in the background for a good minute. Then, in her own Black Panther run, she made a lot of arrogant mistakes. Moreover, Maberry characterized her as a party girl having "Logged more tabloid time than Paris, Lindsey, and Kim combined". Plus theres Klaws of the Panther, in which she was just an emotional train wreck trying to deal with her anger issues, and getting scolded and looked down on by every hero she met (not to mention the art was horrible). I think she was shown in the best light, in Hickman's run TBH, by that time she had really come into her own as leader of Wakanda, and matured ALOT.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1617186]I'll play along. Why wasn't she liked? And what changed?[/QUOTE]
replacing a hero is always hard
and then Klaws was TURRIBLE
And then, it lead to BP in Hell's Kitchen, which a lot of people dind't like at the time (premise is still stupid but Liss ended up nailing it).
what changed? Liss wrote a great Shuri in Kingpin of Wakanda. Then Hickman carried it on afterwards.
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[QUOTE=mbeezy561;1617235]For one thing, a lot of people resented her because Marvel made the decision to focus on her as Black Panther and put T'challa and Ororo in the background for a good minute. Then, in her own Black Panther run, she made a lot of arrogant mistakes. Moreover, Maberry characterized her as a party girl having "Logged more tabloid time than Paris, Lindsey, and Kim combined". Plus theres Klaws of the Panther, in which she was just an emotional train wreck trying to deal with her anger issues, and getting scolded and looked down on by every hero she met (not to mention the art was horrible). I think she was shown in the best light, in Hickman's run TBH, by that time she had really come into her own as leader of Wakanda, and matured ALOT.[/QUOTE]
Shuri a party girl ala Kim and Paris? Why would Mayberry emphasize that? Where did that even happen prior to Mayberry coming on board? I don't even...
Pushing T'Challa and Ororo back in favor of Shuri was a mistake, it should've been the three of them together. I don't know why Mayberry / Marvel went that direction.
To be honest, the Mayberry years were just....weird....
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1617259]Shuri a party girl ala Kim and Paris? Why would Mayberry emphasize that? Where did that even happen prior to Mayberry coming on board? I don't even...
Pushing T'Challa and Ororo back in favor of Shuri was a mistake, it should've been the three of them together. I don't know why Mayberry / Marvel went that direction.
To be honest, the Mayberry years were just....[B]weird[/B]....[/QUOTE]
the word you are thinking of is "****" lol
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1617255]replacing a hero is always hard
and then Klaws was TURRIBLE
And then, it lead to BP in Hell's Kitchen, which a lot of people dind't like at the time (premise is still stupid but Liss ended up nailing it).
what changed? Liss wrote a great Shuri in Kingpin of Wakanda. Then Hickman carried it on afterwards.[/QUOTE]
So in summary, Shuri suffered from bad writing once she took over BP / Queen, then got some good writing later on.
So the solution for Shuri and others....good writing. Good writing cures all.
EDIT: BTW, having other heros scold her over and over........breh, who thought that was a good idea?! Wow.....
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1617265]the word you are thinking of is "****" lol[/QUOTE]
LOL! I guess so.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1617267]So in summary, Shuri suffered from bad writing once she took over, then got some good writing later on.
So the solution for Shuri and others....good writing. Good writing cures all.[/QUOTE]
To an extent yeah. for us hardcore BP fans lol.
To get over on the comic population as a whole takes good writing, good premise, promotion, and then a whole lot of luck
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1617274]To an extent yeah. for us hardcore BP fans lol.
To get over on the comic population as a whole takes good writing, good premise, promotion, and then a whole lot of luck[/QUOTE]
Very, very, very, few characters can survive without the hardcore fans cosigning it, so its a start.
As for the rest, a writer and/or Marvel has to believe in the character for that to happen.
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NYT article: [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/19/us/ta-nehisi-coates-wins-national-book-award.html?ref=books"]Coates wins National Book Award[/URL]
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Hopefully, his BP run gets an Eisner.