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Chiwetel Ejiofor would have made a great Black Panther (and I really hope that Doctor Strange 2 finds something for him to do with Baron Mordo as I feel he's wasted in that role). I definitely think Ejiofor has a more naturalistic dark side in his performances than Boseman does. Boseman has some of the most expressive eyes I've seen in an actor, and I think he sells so much of his performance in Civil War and Black Panther through his eyes alone, but there's rarely any menace there. Intimidating in the way that a strong and resolute presence can be? Absolutely. But while I think he sold the line "Every breath you take is mercy from me," I have a hard time believing he could do the "We will have an understanding between us" bit from Priest's book. Ejiofor has done that (both as Mordo and the Operative in Serenity as Mr. Majestik has brought up), and it's easy to imagine how he would have taken his work from Serenity and improved upon it for T'Challa while also bringing in his warmth from his other roles.
Whether or not he would have been better than Boseman is of course down to personal taste. But I think he might have been a more natural fit, even though I love Boseman's performance in both Civil War and Black Panther.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3565587]I'm not African-American (as you well know) so the blanket statement relating to killmonger, doesn't wash with me.
Killmonger (as portrayed by MBJ) was flat out, handsdown, much more compelling than Chadwick Boseman's T'Challa in the BP solo movie.
I'd feel completely different if it was the Civil War BP Killmonger faced but alas, that was not the case.
As for comparing Chiwetel Ejiofor's performance as the Operative in Serenity to Chadwick's turn as T'Challa in the BP solo movie, I can't for the life of me, see why anyone would percieve this stance to be unfair.
Dating back to before Chadwick was cast or tge very first frame of the movie was shot, I stated that Chiwetel Ejiofor was my personal first and only preferred thespian to play the role, so it's not as if I'm some johnny come lately chatting nonsense or throwing "shade" on Boseman.
Dude did a good job playing T'Challa no doubt.
Chiwetel Ejiofor would have done it better.
Ijs.[/QUOTE]
I know you're not AA Maj, so the comment was mostly addressed to those who are AA and might feel the way you do.
It's a matter of taste, I know, but for discussion sake, I disagree that Killmonger was more compelling. For me, he was one-note in his emotions. Or should I say, emotion--which was just revenge even if it was masked with a noble intention. What Killmonger wanted to do based on his experiences I think is the most interesting thing about him. Otherwise, he's a fairly boring character. By no means am I saying he's a boring villain (I think he's the best one in the MCU), but his real motivations are boring. The "freeing black people from oppression" angle is what makes him interesting (and coupled with a solid performance from MBJ). But he's not THAT great of a character in my opinion. He's not a better CHARACTER than Loki for instance who is far more complex in the things he does. I certainly don't think he's a better character than T'Challa either, who has shown quite a wide range as a person, and I don't just mean in emotions.
One thing I've noticed is that T'Challa in Civil War and Killmonger in BP are essentially the same person. Both driven by hate and revenge for the death of their father and are doing the wrong thing even if they somewhat have a right to do those things (hell, BP's cue in Civil War was a flute, and Killmonger's instrument is a flute too). But it is those final moments of CW that T'Challa shows the first sign of being a good man, by sparing Zemo and refusing to be driven by vengeance. What I've really come to realise is that Killmonger is meant to show how much better of a man (and character) T'Challa is.
There are quite a lot of parallels between the two men shown in the film (like how the both cuddled their father's dead body very similarly, or how the movie works hard to show how much of opposites they are in the way the dress, talk, the things they have, the way they think etc.), but one particular parallel I noticed was the way both men 'killed' each other. When Killmonger stabbed T'Challa with the spear, he mocked him in front of his family and council, and then threw him [I]down[/I] the cliff. But T'Challa after stabbing Killmonger with the same spear in the same area, lifted him [I]up[/I] and showed him the Wakandan sunset Killmonger dreamed of seeing, and offered to heal him. T'Challa was willing to save a man who had just tried to kill him, his family and the world at large. That, to me is a compelling character and a great arc.
I think us being used to and liking a T'Challa who is slightly more anti-hero than hero may not be allowing us to see some of the merit here, because Civil War T'Challa was more of an anti-hero than a hero. But personally as someone who is a big fan of Priest and Liss, I really liked what they did with T'Challa here.
I do think it's unfair to compare Chiwetel Ejiofor's performance as the Operative in Serenity to Chadwick's turn as T'Challa in the BP solo movie for the reason I stated above: [U]They are different characters.[/U] Did a quick read on the Operative, and he is:
1. Not royalty
2. Not immediately grieving the loss of a father
3. Not a king
4. Pretty much the lore's equivalent of a Black Ops agent
5. A killer and seemingly loved to kill for a greater purpose
All of which seem to apply to Killmonger as well, so unless you wanted T'Challa to be this thing (which he has never been in the comics), you wanted T'Challa to be exactly like Killmonger? But then you're talking about Chiwetel's portrayal of the character, which is not the same thing as to how the character of T'Challa was [I]written[/I]. My simple point is: By what way would Chiwetel have been better if he was going to play a different kind of character which does not require him to act in the way he did as the Operative in Serenity? The comparison isn't just unfair, it makes no sense at all. Chiwetel would do exactly what Ryan Coogler wanted him to and you would be complaining about the same exact thing. Nothing you've said you didn't like does not seem to be Chadwick's fault at all, but rather how the character was written.
Unless I ask: What did [I]you[/I] not like that Chadwick Boseman did in the role?
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[QUOTE=robreedwrites;3565771]Chiwetel Ejiofor would have made a great Black Panther (and I really hope that Doctor Strange 2 finds something for him to do with Baron Mordo as I feel he's wasted in that role). [B]I definitely think Ejiofor has a more naturalistic dark side in his performances than Boseman does. Boseman has some of the most expressive eyes I've seen in an actor, and I think he sells so much of his performance in Civil War and Black Panther through his eyes alone, but there's rarely any menace there. Intimidating in the way that a strong and resolute presence can be? Absolutely.[/B] But while I think he sold the line "Every breath you take is mercy from me," I have a hard time believing he could do the "We will have an understanding between us" bit from Priest's book. Ejiofor has done that (both as Mordo and the Operative in Serenity as Mr. Majestik has brought up), and it's easy to imagine how he would have taken his work from Serenity and improved upon it for T'Challa while also bringing in his warmth from his other roles.
Whether or not he would have been better than Boseman is of course down to personal taste. But I think he might have been a more natural fit, even though I love Boseman's performance in both Civil War and Black Panther.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, especially the bolded. Chiwetel is certainly a darker performer than Chadwick. But as I have said, I doubt Chadwick's T'Challa would ever have to deliver those lines because that's not the character the MCU is writing him as. If it was, and he wasn't selling it, I can agree and say Chiwetel would have been better as he can play off those type of roles better. But that's not the character they're going for.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;3565485]As much as I LOVED Killmonger (and other side characters like Shuri, Okoye and Nakia) in the movie, for me T'Challa was personally [I]the[/I] standout character for me.
I thought Chadwick Boseman gave the damn best performance in the film (second being Letitia IMO), and carried himself the way I'd would want T'Challa to in a film. Maybe it's just because while Priest's run is my favourite BP run it isn't my favourite depiction of T'Challa himself (for quite a number of reasons), and Chadwick's T'Challa is NOT exactly that version either.
I liked his regal confidence. There are a lot of things he does that I realised I missed even in my second viewing, like how he reacts to things. An example is his reaction to Killmonger saying he wants the throne. Priest's T'Challa might have just roasted him cooly right then and there. Hudlin's T'Challa may have come up with a witty comeback. But MCU kept quiet, yet the look on his face said [I]everything[/I]. It was a very subtle smirk, and you could tell in his head he was laughing his panther tail off. He does something like that again when he's fighting Killmonger the first time when T'Challa slashes him in the face (I also noticed at that moment T'Challa had every opportunity to kill or defeat Killmonger by continuously attacking him, since Killmonger actually froze in surprise, but chose not to because he wanted Killmonger to yield). He just looks at him as if to say [I]Mhmm, I got yo ass![/I] I also really liked his interactions with Ross in this manner, and also with M'Baku, like how he cuts him off when he expresses his desire to challenge him.
I think T'Challa had enough lines and dialogue to properly express himself in the film (unlike say, Superman in BvS), but there are quite a few times he says enough with just his eyes. I think it's one of Chadwick's strengths as an actor (and I don't think that's a quality many of us would want or expect T'Challa to have). Like when he rescues Nakia and the Nigerian girls, he's the only one that doesn't say anything to them. Nakia tells them to run the the nearest village with the boy, and Okoye tells them to speak of what actually happened to no one, but T'Challa says nothing. Yet, his eyes tell you what he's feeling, and it's pity. You could tell (or at least I thought) he felt sorry for them and wished the constraints of Wakandan traditions did not exist so he could do more (I should add I believe his own ship, the Royal Talon Fighter, somewhat symbolises this need and internal conflict with T'Challa).
The scenes where we see T'Challa's vulnerable side I think were the right ones too. Ultimately MCU T'Challa has had a vastly different experience than MU T'Challa. The latter lost his father when he was just a boy and therefore had to grow up really quickly to become king, and didn't really have a childhood. MCU T'Challa had his childhood and two loving parents (who may have sheltered him too much) from boyhood to manhood, which makes his loss greater to him even though he is older and should understand these things better (something I unfortunately really understand now). I think that's why this version of T'Challa breaking down in front of his father makes more sense than when it happened in New Avengers for instance. The grief of that loss is still fresh, and also because he's learned his father was not the perfect man and king he thought he was pretty much at the same time.
I think Chadwick Boseman acted all of these scenes and his portrayal excellently, and I think it's unfair to say Chiwetel would have done a better job just because a character he played in another movie written by another writer and advised by another director was somewhat more inline with what one would expect T'Challa to behave like in a film. T'Challa in this film was written a certain way by Coogler and Cole and how the character was acted out was more on Coogler than on Chadwick, because if Chiwetel was the only factor in the movie that was changed, we would have ended up with the same exact thing. I mean, most of what I'm reading here isn't saying Chadwick did not act as well as they wanted him to, or that he didn't look as ripped as one would have hoped, or his accent was off, or he didn't look good in the suit(s), or didn't bring the physicality. It's mostly about the character himself. Chiwetel would have been great, of course. But I don't see how he would have been [I]better[/I].
I'm not saying I don't buy the praise for MBJ and his Killmonger, but I think the praise has to do with two things:
1. Black Panther is an American film, and aside from the white guys from the film (one of which is actually African), Killmonger is the closest thing to an (African)American in the film in the midst of the main cast. He talks like an (African)American, dresses like an (African)American and has (African)American ideologies. Therefore he's the most 'relatable' character for the large majority of the market BP was marketed to.
2. Regardless of the fact that Killmonger is arguably the best villain in the MCU (for now), he's a great villain no less and that is quite rare for the MCU, since they are somewhat notorious for having a "villain problem". Therefore he's talked about a lot for that very reason.
I found myself more invested in T'Challa's internal struggle than in Killmonger's goal because I already knew how wrong it was even if it was from noble intentions.[/QUOTE]
Chadwick was great as Black Panther. Erik is best antagonist in the MCU that's why people love him. Erik will be the best antagonist in the MCU for a long time. He was a noble man to the end.
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Chadwick being a Dark Skin American Black Man playing Tchalla
Helped his appeal to New fans Especially in the States...
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[QUOTE=goku200;3565853]Chadwick was great as Black Panther. Erik is best antagonist in the MCU that's why people love him. Erik will be the best antagonist in the MCU for a long time. He was a noble man to the end.[/QUOTE]
Erik wasn't noble
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Interview with Evan. Some official marvel talk show
He starts at 2:50. Trivia game at 8:50
[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9I3HE2h2E[/url]
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[QUOTE=robreedwrites;3565771]Chiwetel Ejiofor would have made a great Black Panther (and I really hope that Doctor Strange 2 finds something for him to do with Baron Mordo as I feel he's wasted in that role). I definitely think Ejiofor has a more naturalistic dark side in his performances than Boseman does. Boseman has some of the most expressive eyes I've seen in an actor, and I think he sells so much of his performance in Civil War and Black Panther through his eyes alone, but there's rarely any menace there. Intimidating in the way that a strong and resolute presence can be? Absolutely. But while I think he sold the line "Every breath you take is mercy from me," I have a hard time believing he could do the "We will have an understanding between us" bit from Priest's book. Ejiofor has done that (both as Mordo and the Operative in Serenity as Mr. Majestik has brought up), and it's easy to imagine how he would have taken his work from Serenity and improved upon it for T'Challa while also bringing in his warmth from his other roles.
Whether or not he would have been better than Boseman is of course down to personal taste. But I think he might have been a more natural fit, even though I love Boseman's performance in both Civil War and Black Panther.[/QUOTE]
Finally, someone gets it.
Enuff said.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;3565799]I agree with this, especially the bolded. Chiwetel is certainly a darker performer than Chadwick. But as I have said, I doubt Chadwick's T'Challa would ever have to deliver those lines because that's not the character the MCU is writing him as. If it was, and he wasn't selling it, I can agree and say Chiwetel would have been better as he can play off those type of roles better. But that's not the character they're going for.[/QUOTE]
[B]I think Chadwick can pull off the menacing darker side. Like Rob said it's all in his eyes. His lines "I accept your challenge M'Baku" "Every breath you take is mercy from me" and "I don't care about Klaw, the only reason I don't kill you where you stand is because I know who you are" has a more quiet menacing tone to it. Like he would be one of those people that you know you F'ed up with his voice gets quieter. Chiwetel would be a great Tchalla. But it's hard to say who would be better. More so, I think he and Chadwick would each bring their own strengths to Tchalla and bring out different Characteristics to the scenes we saw. But I couldn't say chiwetel would be better because It would more so be he brings different skill set to the table. Maybe those lines I mentioned above he could of done more convincingly, but Chadwick has masterfully played T'Challa [/B]
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[video=youtube;IIBIOPyBVTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIBIOPyBVTI[/video]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3566085][B]I think Chadwick can pull off the menacing darker side. Like Rob said it's all in his eyes. His lines "I accept your challenge M'Baku" "Every breath you take is mercy from me" and "I don't care about Klaw, the only reason I don't kill you where you stand is because I know who you are" has a more quiet menacing tone to it. Like he would be one of those people that you know you F'ed up with his voice gets quieter. Chiwetel would be a great Tchalla. But it's hard to say who would be better. More so, I think he and Chadwick would each bring their own strengths to Tchalla and bring out different Characteristics to the scenes we saw. But I couldn't say chiwetel would be better because It would more so be he brings different skill set to the table. Maybe those lines I mentioned above he could of done more convincingly, but Chadwick has masterfully played T'Challa [/B][/QUOTE]
I feel guilty saying this, but I nearly died laughing when Chadwick uttered those lines to Killmonger in the movie.
No frak's were given by Erik and I was left remenbering all the empty threats T'Challa made to Namor during Hickman's New Avengers run.
Not a good look.
Moving forward, I sincerely hope the Russo's can bring the best out of Boseman in Avengers: Infinity War in much the same way as they did in CA:CW.
Ijs.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3566104][video=youtube;IIBIOPyBVTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIBIOPyBVTI[/video][/QUOTE]
I had honestly forgotten Mathis' Black Panther voice wasn't originally as deep as it sounds now.
They should bring back Keith David to play T'Chaka one of these days.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3566178]I feel guilty saying this, but I nearly died laughing when Chadwick uttered those lines to Killmonger in the movie.
No frak's were given by Erik and I was left remenbering all the empty threats T'Challa made to Namor during Hickman's New Avengers run.
Not a good look.
Moving forward, I sincerely hope the Russo's can bring the best out of Boseman in Avengers: Infinity War in much the same way as they did in CA:CW.
Ijs.[/QUOTE]
He backed up His Threat..
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[QUOTE=Pulp Fiction;3565319]In civil war
-had a great introduction
-Kicked ass
-great lines
-Tailed Tony and scouted out the situation
-had a heart to heart with the villain and realised his own error
-stopped the villain from taking the easy way out
-volunteered to cure bucky
It's not hard to see why people preferred T'Challa in civil war. Read any civil war review and black panther's name comes up as one of the standouts.
I don't think I saw any praise for T'Challa in any of the black panther reviews.[/QUOTE]
And what would have happened had he killed Bucky his first fight? Would you be praising how out of character he acted then?
He had far more character growth in his solo than he did in CW. Why it works is the lesson he learned in CW carried over into his movie hence why he didn't just flat out kill Klaw.
He had better lines in BP than in CW as well.
To praise his emotional recklessness in CW then to bash it in BP is hypocrisy at it's finest.
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[QUOTE=Montez;3566269]He backed up His Threat..[/QUOTE]
If you say so. Lol!
Killmonger turned down T'Challa's "mercy" and went out on his own terms dropping one of the most poignantly powerful lines in the whole damn movie.
Dude was hella compelling even whilst drawing his last breath.