The Black Panther 50th Anniversary Panel is live now at [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJfuHkBWf0[/url]
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The Black Panther 50th Anniversary Panel is live now at [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJfuHkBWf0[/url]
[QUOTE=XPac;2338707]For what it's worth, when I think of Killmonger the first person I think of isn't Jordan. I think of someone that's maybe a bit bigger. But Hollywood magic can go pretty far in compensating for that.
Beyond that, MCU versions of characters don't always resemble the comic book versions. Dr. Strange's movie casting choices was probably the most extreme examples of that. But even the casting of say Dark Mariah in the Luke Cage show wasn't pretty liberal as far as transfering the existing character from the books to the small screen. So they're not always trying to be exact as far as physical appearance.
The important thing to note though is that it USUALLY ends up working.[/QUOTE]
I'd say most of the time it turns out ok. And also CA:Winter Soldier was more the exception than the rule. The majority of these Marvel movies are not approached the way people film say martial arts movies where H2H combat is the whole point and you need people who can actually do the fighting and stunts. The appeal for the general audience is as much about story, humor and character likability as it is about special effects and action.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2338308]If you think newcomer Coogler came in and was able to force cast people that Fiege and other higher ups didnt like... youre nuts[/QUOTE]
If anyone thinks Marvel always casts 100 percent true to the page anyway then they've never seen a Marvel movie. That's what just seems so amusing to me about the minor backlash in this thread. Every single complaint from actors not looking exactly like the characters to the director changing stuff from the source material to fit the movie better could be said of almost every single movie Marvel has ever put out.
[QUOTE=ed2962;2338769]I'd say most of the time it turns out ok. And also CA:Winter Soldier was more the exception than the rule. The majority of these Marvel movies are not approached the way people film say martial arts movies where H2H combat is the whole point and you need people who can actually do the fighting and stunts. The appeal for the general audience is as much about story, humor and character likability as it is about special effects and action.[/QUOTE]
Even in TWS the only guy who I know of that was a professional martial artist was Georges St. Pierre, who played Batroc. And even then they wisely stuck to him punching in kicking rather than actually delivering monologues.
[QUOTE=XPac;2338350]To be quite honest I don't know the track record of Jeremy Whitley... again I've never heard of him. As far as I know he has no prior issues with the relationship but like I said I never heard of him.[/QUOTE][SIZE=3]
I never heard of David Liss or Coates before either of them became Black Panther scribes, but as far as most of us can see, Liss came onboard fresh and delivered a solid BP run (albeit short lived) which respected the BP mythos explicitly.
Coates on the otherhand, has dehumanised Wakanda on a whim and neutered T'Challa as a character worthy of respect.
As far as Jeremy Whitley's track record is concerned, it has ZERO relevance beyond what he himself has commited to the written page featuring T'Challa and Ororo so why you keep bringing this irrelevant point up is mystifying to say the least.[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=XPac;2338350]And yeah, I find it a little hard to believe a writer will place a scene in a book to spite Storm and T'Challa JUST BECAUSE.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]
T'Challa and Ororo are fictional characters, so "spiting them" (just because or otherwise) doesn't come into the equation.
Pushing the false narrative of emotional discord between the two characters which was DELIBERATELY created and pushed by the X-Office is where the actual bone of contention lies.
Any other argument to the contrary, is wilfully misdirectional at best or deliberately obsfucative at worst.[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=XPac;2338350] To me that doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]
Did AvX make sense to you?[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=XPac;2338350]To me it makes more sense to believe the writer had a narrative point beyond spite that you either didn't see or simply didn't like.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]
It actually makes more sense to look at what's actually on page, weigh it up against similarly themed portrayals and then arrive at the logical conclusion that the writer in question, is merely following through on a manufactured negative narrative that was in place before his arrival on the scene.[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=XPac;2338350]Obviously neither of us are mind readers ... we don't know exactly why Jeremy Whitley did anything.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]And this is relevant why?
Sometimes, a page is just a page clearly laid out with intent fully on display.
[/SIZE]
One doesn't have to be a "mind reader" to establish when a BS laden, manufactured false narrative is being fostered ad nauseum.
[QUOTE=XPac;2338350]I'm merely suggesting to me at least "spite them just because" mentality seems less sensible.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]
And you are of course, entitled to your opinion which nonetheless doesn't change the fact that post-Hudlin, a majority of X-writers who've bothered to reference the T'Challa/Ororo marriage, have uniformly done so in a disparaging manner that paints Ororo as the victim to a supposedly "domineering" T'Challa.
The dialogue Jeremy Whitley used in the scans provided, were pretty unambiguous in their painting of T'Challa as the disaproving ex-spouse who supposedly "prevented" Ororo from flying free when she was queen of Wakanda.
So regardless of what you or anyone else feels, it remains pretty obvious that there are certain writers who will continue to thrive off of this example of wholly manufactured relationship based dysfunction between these two fictional characters.
[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Holt;2338845]If anyone thinks Marvel always casts 100 percent true to the page anyway then they've never seen a Marvel movie. That's what just seems so amusing to me about the minor backlash in this thread. Every single complaint from actors not looking exactly like the characters to the director changing stuff from the source material to fit the movie better could be said of almost every single movie Marvel has ever put out.
Even in TWS the only guy who I know of that was a professional martial artist was Georges St. Pierre, who played Batroc. And even then they wisely stuck to him punching in kicking rather than actually delivering monologues.[/QUOTE]
As far as Disney is concerned, star powe is probably more appealing than visual accuracy to the source material at least for secondary characters.
[QUOTE=Ravin' Ray;2338738]The Black Panther 50th Anniversary Panel is live now at [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJfuHkBWf0[/url][/QUOTE]
Gonna give this a watch!
[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;2338312]Any and everybody who wants to criticize Ryan Coogler for recasting some of the most talented, accomplished, and loyal black actors in his movies are absolutely nuts. Spike Lee did the same thing and came out with multiple classic films using Wesley Snipes, Denzel Washington, Bill Nunn, and Ossie Davis. More black people in Hollywood casting and working together is nothing but a POSITIVE thing.[/QUOTE]
I see the casting of such a distinguished level of thespian talent for the Black Panther movie as being something very positive.
Not sure why anyone would take exception to this?
[QUOTE=ed2962;2338677]I think Elie has said before that he feels that Coogler should have casted people who look a closer to the comic book versions. I if understand his previous point he would prefer more athletic looking actors.[/QUOTE]
I said They should cast people that actually fit the role. Finding people that look similar isn't the point. The only casting I have real issue with is Jordan getting the role of Killmoonger dispite being the furthest thing from thoughts of the character Just because Coogler and him are boys.
Whitaker I don't care about, same deal but lets not act like Whitaker is Denzel. But John Kani as T'chaka didn't sit well either and I don't think that was Coogler.
These are minor parts he's casting (except Killmonger) so going with someone that actually fits the character mentally and visually shouldn't be all that hard. Hell Marvel had Batista playing Drax and he's about as average or below average as you can get. This is a comic book movie still, not Fruitvalle station with a bigger budget.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2338907]I see the casting of such a distinguished level of thespian talent for the Black Panther movie as being something very positive.
Not sure why anyone would take exception to this?[/QUOTE]
I take no exception to who is being cast, only how they are being cast. There was a role for MJW in this movie but it sure isn't Killmonger. Same with Whitaker. If someone can point me to a piece of cinima that either has been in that screams Killmonger or Zuri then I'll gladly silence myself. The actor from person of interest ( Winston Duke) being cast as Man-Ape is a great casting as are all the Doras. If Winston Duke was cast as Killmonger then I'd also have been pretty cool with that. MBJ could have been cast as Man-Ape and people would have said the same thing on this board though so I'm just speaking my piece. I'm sure it will "work out". Just not as well as it could have if proper casting steps were taken. Nate Parker as Killmonger would have been great too, Hell I'd take Shemar Moore over MBJ as Killmonger. WKabi was a role MBJ fit.
Now if he manages to get Basset, Denzel, Jamie Fox, or Mahershala Ali (after that stellar performance in Luke Cage I don't care if he's already established as Cotton Mouth) then I'll slide some points his ways
There are imposing black actors out there and by that I don't just mean physically. Ving Rhames, Djimon Hounsou, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, Peter Mensah, and a host of others
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2338907]I see the casting of such a distinguished level of thespian talent for the Black Panther movie as being something very positive.
Not sure why anyone would take exception to this?[/QUOTE]
[B]Like I said a few pages back. The Bp cast is filled with
Great talent and rising stars so that Even without Forest. They are rocking some great talent and the Star power is already good. Forest now is just the icing on the cake[/B]
[QUOTE=Ekie;2338938]I said They should cast people that actually fit the role. Finding people that look similar isn't the point. The only casting I have real issue with is Jordan getting the role of Killmoonger dispite being the furthest thing from thoughts of the character Just because Coogler and him are boys.
Whitaker I don't care about, same deal but lets not act like Whitaker is Denzel. But John Kani as T'chaka didn't sit well either and I don't think that was Coogler.
These are minor parts he's casting (except Killmonger) so going with someone that actually fits the character mentally and visually shouldn't be all that hard. Hell Marvel had Batista playing Drax and he's about as average or below average as you can get. This is a comic book movie still, not Fruitvalle station with a bigger budget.[/QUOTE]
The thing is the director get to see these characters auditions. Maybe Jordan just nailed it.
I'll agree when I think Kill monger Jordan isn'the the first person I think of. But these guys are actors. It's their job to become the person on the script. And the directors get to see whether or not they can pull it off long before we do. So maybe he'll surprise you.
[QUOTE=XPac;2338971]The thing is the director get to see these characters auditions. Maybe Jordan just nailed it.
I'll agree when I think Kill monger Jordan isn'the the first person I think of. But these guys are actors. It's their job to become the person on the script. And the directors get to see whether or not they can pull it off long before we do. So maybe he'll surprise you.[/QUOTE]
In the MBJ interview I saw he said he didn't even audition. Coogler called him and asked if he wanted to play Killmonger and Jordan said yes. That was it.
[QUOTE=Ekie;2338938]I said They should cast people that actually fit the role. Finding people that look similar isn't the point. The only casting I have real issue with is Jordan getting the role of Killmoonger dispite being the furthest thing from thoughts of the character Just because Coogler and him are boys.
Whitaker I don't care about, same deal but lets not act like Whitaker is Denzel. But John Kani as T'chaka didn't sit well either and I don't think that was Coogler.
These are minor parts he's casting (except Killmonger) so going with someone that actually fits the character mentally and visually shouldn't be all that hard. Hell Marvel had Batista playing Drax and he's about as average or below average as you can get. This is a comic book movie still, not Fruitvalle station with a bigger budget.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. But we don't know how Killmonger is going to be written in the script and we don't know what Jordan will look like after costuming. So it's hard to say if he fits the role yet. He might be fine for what their going for. People thought Michael Keaton was wrong for Batman until the movie actually came out.
I'll be honest. I've got concerns too but it's more on the management/scripting side. I don't want scenes stuck in cuz they want to promote Ant Man 2 or a love scene cut cuz they're afraid folks in Peoria won't accept black people kissing and stuff like that.
[QUOTE=Ekie;2338980]In the MBJ interview I saw he said he didn't even audition. Coogler called him and asked if he wanted to play Killmonger and Jordan said yes. That was it.[/QUOTE]
That's not cool.
Coogler should have at least allowed others to audition before just handing the Killmonger gig to Jordan on a platter.
[QUOTE=Ekie;2338980]In the MBJ interview I saw he said he didn't even audition. Coogler called him and asked if he wanted to play Killmonger and Jordan said yes. That was it.[/QUOTE]
Chadwick Boseman didn't audition either and we saw how that turned out.
On a sadder note Coates posted this on twitter
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuVY8JYWcAAhR2R.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2338997]That's not cool.
Coogler should have at least allowed others to audition before just handing the Killmonger gig to Jordan on a platter.[/QUOTE]
[B] Well to be fair he did great in two of Cooglers movies already so he might of just already knew he would be the perfect fit. Sane with Chadwick he didn't audition. Sometimes you just know Who fits the bill and Marvel hasn't been wrong yet.
That's said I think if they could get Snipes in the movie that would be a huge + considering he pushed for a Bp movie almost 2 decades ago.
#SnipesForS'yan2018 [/B]
MBJ is extremely talented, which is likely why he was asked to play the role. He wouldn't have been my choice for what I'd have in mind for Killmonger, but that doesn't mean he doesn't fit the role the movie has in mind.
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;2339008]Chadwick Boseman didn't audition either and we saw how that turned out.
On a sadder note Coates posted this on twitter
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuVY8JYWcAAhR2R.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Avengers of the new world is such a cool title .
It has real life historical significance as far as a revolution goes, but also has obvious marvel super hero connotations.
And it just sounds inspiring.
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;2339008]Chadwick Boseman didn't audition either and we saw how that turned out.
On a sadder note Coates posted this on twitter
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuVY8JYWcAAhR2R.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Avengers of the New World......I'm gonna guess the Midnight Angels make up with Panther who is now no longer king and go from country to country saving Black Panther from male Evil Janitors and male security guards
Wait, who was it that wanted michael jai McCantAct as every role?
Anywho, im not 100% sold mbj as killmonger but dude has talent so i ant gonna complain. Villain actors need to be highly skilled at marvel dye to limited screen time, and mbj fits that description so i will roll with it.
In regards to forrest/zuri... i was dumbfounded at first. But then i remembered that mcu tchaka died at like 50 when tchalla was inhis late 20s... not 8. Zuri bring an in prime warrior beast makes no sense in the mcu.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2339069]Wait, who was it that wanted michael jai McCantAct as every role?
Anywho, im not 100% sold mbj as killmonger but dude has talent so i ant gonna complain. Villain actors need to be highly skilled at marvel dye to limited screen time, and mbj fits that description so i will roll with it.
In regards to forrest/zuri... i was dumbfounded at first. But then i remembered that mcu tchaka died at like 50 when tchalla was inhis late 20s... not 8. Zuri bring an in prime warrior beast makes no sense in the mcu.[/QUOTE]
50 is old now? You can be 50 and look like you atleast used to be in shape. And I'm not sure who exactly you think wanted MJW in every role? When you find out let me know.
[QUOTE=Ekie;2339076]50 is old now? You can be 50 and look like you atleast used to be in shape. And I'm not sure who exactly you think wanted MJW in every role? When you find out let me know.[/QUOTE]
Im talking about zuri not being ronnie coleman in his prime.
Tchakas old news... and dead. Maybe dude just wanted some 40s, video games, and gummy bears evey day after squeezing into that suit for 20 years :D
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;2339008]On a sadder note Coates posted this on twitter
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuVY8JYWcAAhR2R.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I knew it! He's sticking to that title after all.
Although he's going with the religion angle with is...I'm not sure how it would fit.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2339091]I knew it! He's sticking to that title after all.
Although he's going with the religion angle with is...I'm not sure how it would fit.[/QUOTE]
[B]I gotta see how this arc ends. But as of right now.. in meh on this next season. It's crazy though how ahead TNC is in terms of turning in these scripts though [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2339101][B]I gotta see how this arc ends. But as of right now.. in meh on this next season. It's crazy though how ahead TNC is in terms of turning in these scripts though [/B][/QUOTE]
Yea, super ahead of time. By the time #13 comes in, the story will be done and turned in, most likely.
Also confirms that they are aren't renumbering this. I was wondering if they would start over back to #1.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2339101][B]I gotta see how this arc ends. But as of right now.. in meh on this next season. It's crazy though how ahead TNC is in terms of turning in these scripts though [/B][/QUOTE]
It doesn't take much effort to write false narrative laden BS.
[QUOTE=XPac;2339053]Avengers of the new world is such a cool title .
It has real life historical significance as far as a revolution goes, but also has obvious marvel super hero connotations.
And it just sounds inspiring.[/QUOTE]
I'm also not sure how it could be remotely surprising. He said he had a second "season" of stories planned and he said that was the title. Is the fact that it's coming to fruition news? Because the book is selling incredibly well so that shouldn't shock anyone.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2339091]I knew it! He's sticking to that title after all.
Although he's going with the religion angle with is...I'm not sure how it would fit.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind this is the title to the particular issue, not necessarily the entire story.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2339101][B]I gotta see how this arc ends. But as of right now.. in meh on this next season. It's crazy though how ahead TNC is in terms of turning in these scripts though [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think you should be beholden to critics, but you should always be able to keep an open mind. I wonder if he's writing too far in advance. It would be nice for him to have time to incorporate feedback.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2339124]I'm also not sure how it could be remotely surprising. He said he had a second "season" of stories planned and he said that was the title. Is the fact that it's coming to fruition news? Because the book is selling incredibly well so that shouldn't shock anyone.
Keep in mind this is the title to the particular issue, not necessarily the entire story.
I don't think you should be beholden to critics, but you should always be able to keep an open mind. I wonder if he's writing too far in advance. It would be nice for him to have time to incorporate feedback.[/QUOTE]
Or incorporate MU changes
I guess this book is fully isolated once again?
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2339124]I'm also not sure how it could be remotely surprising. He said he had a second "season" of stories planned and he said that was the title. Is the fact that it's coming to fruition news? Because the book is selling incredibly well so that shouldn't shock anyone.
Keep in mind this is the title to the particular issue, not necessarily the entire story.
I don't think you should be beholden to critics, but you should always be able to keep an open mind. I wonder if he's writing too far in advance. It would be nice for him to have time to incorporate feedback.[/QUOTE]
If writing comics is more a side job for him and he's got other writing obligations, he probably doesn't have the same amount of time a full time comic writer had to wait or feedback though. He probably has to get ahead of everything to make sure he's got time for his day job.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2339131]Or incorporate MU changes
I guess this book is fully isolated once again?[/QUOTE]
He'll probably have to be as most writers aren't THAT far ahead.
But his book seems to work fine on it's own anyways. T'Challa can still play in the sandbox in Ultimates.
To be fair, Chadwick didnt audition for black panther. They gave it to him on a vibranium platter. I doubt Lupita auditioned either. Prior to, they offered her the Valkyrie role, no audition, and she said nah.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2339124]I'm also not sure how it could be remotely surprising. He said he had a second "season" of stories planned and he said that was the title. Is the fact that it's coming to fruition news? Because the book is selling incredibly well so that shouldn't shock anyone.
Keep in mind this is the title to the particular issue, not necessarily the entire story.
[B]I don't think you should be beholden to critics, but you should always be able to keep an open mind. I wonder if he's writing too far in advance. It would be nice for him to have time to incorporate feedback[/B].[/QUOTE]
[B]I have tried to keep an open mind, I stayed middle road all the way up till issue 6 I believe or after it.. whenever he had that interview when he basically tried to Blame the long time fans for not liking his Bp and that they just want a perfect"awesome all the time" T'Challa or some stupid crap like that. Acting like long tine fans were being hard on the Book simply because they are set in their ways. That's bs and an insult to fans who have stuck through all the bs and appreciate the REAL scribes of Bp. Priest Hudlin, Liss, hell I would say McDuffie is more of a Bp scribe then Coates and he had him first starring in his FF run.
What you act like that, ontop of how he went about his story thus far and how much stupidity he had to throw at T'Challa to get his story to work, as well as Wakanda (rape camps, misogyny against women when there are multiple showings that say otherwise, really?) For his story, or how he just jumped into this story with little to no explanation of how Wakanda got to such a state.
After Sw ended AND Ultimates showed Wakanda leading the world to the Stars and being the beacon of light.. see where in going with all This? So I have little faith that he will provide anything good for this run, he is too concerned with making his agenda work and his pet characters that he will have T'Challa behave anyway to make the agenda and story fit. Character continuity be damned
Maybe if this run ends in a manner that is satisfying for all the bs T'Challa went through I will change my mind (I would love to be proven wrong) no benefit of the doubt from me [/B]
[QUOTE=Rumble;2339173]To be fair, Chadwick didnt audition for black panther. They gave it to him on a vibranium platter. I doubt Lupita auditioned either. [B]Prior to, they offered her the Valkyrie role,[/B] no audition, and she said nah.[/QUOTE]
Say what?!
Man, that would've been a debate across comic book circles for sure lol.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2339242]Say what?!
Man, that would've been a debate across comic book circles for sure lol.[/QUOTE]
Yup, Disney was eyeing her for the lead female role in Thor before they went with the chick who played MBJ's gf in Creed.
Then they came to Lupita again for the lead female role in BP, and here we are.
It was interesting b/c apparently Valkyrie is to have an expanded role in the post-phase 3 MCU and appear in other movies.. and they were really pushing her be a woman of color. They got their wake up call as far as more women of color as heroes and love interests.
[IMG]https://scontent.fmci1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/s960x960/14556558_10154258518129821_5811064911950285014_o.jpg[/IMG]
Panther gonna be joining the UFC soon with all these holds
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2339242]Say what?!
Man, that would've been a debate across comic book circles for sure lol.[/QUOTE]
I think in the MCU you almost need more black asgardians just so more people won't be wondering why Heimdal is the only one.
[QUOTE=Rumble;2339303]Yup, Disney was eyeing her for the lead female role in Thor before they went with the chick who played MBJ's gf in Creed.
Then they came to Lupita again for the lead female role in BP, and here we are.
It was interesting b/c apparently Valkyrie is to have an expanded role in the post-phase 3 MCU and appear in other movies.. and they were really pushing her be a woman of color. They got their wake up call as far as more women of color as heroes and love interests.[/QUOTE]
The old school Defenders fan in me would like Val to show up somewhere down the line in Defenders and maybe have a small bit of interaction with Patsy. Super unlikely given how limited the interaction is between the movies and TV... but it would be kinda cool.
[QUOTE=Ekie;2339336][IMG]https://scontent.fmci1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/s960x960/14556558_10154258518129821_5811064911950285014_o.jpg[/IMG]
Panther gonna be joining the UFC soon with all these holds[/QUOTE]
I dont recognize that middle one?
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2339360]I dont recognize that middle one?[/QUOTE]
It was from Hudlin's Flags of our Father. That glove thing pretty much owned everyone in the book without him having to break a sweat.
[QUOTE=XPac;2339344]I think in the MCU you almost need more black asgardians just so more people won't be wondering why Heimdal is the only one.[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised after Heimdall (who in myth was literally described as "the whitest of gods") any Asgardian of color would be controversial.