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[QUOTE=JBatmanFan05;1261178]No, the main problem with this latest shock is that they didn't think the show would go that far on the evil scale. Again, it's the audience thinking GoT is like most conventional TV shows and surely Stannis or someone would stop this. Surely, they couldn't do this to such a beloved innocent. These viewers haven't been paying attention IMHO and the outrage will likely only embolden the creators to drive home their point more and more about this terribly harsh world where TV traditions of good vs evil are greatly subverted some.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JBatmanFan05;1261194][B]Book Stannis:
-Burned his daughter (you just haven't read this book yet, because it isn't out)
[Evil religious freakazoid murderer][/B]
[B]Show Stannis:
-Burned his daughter
[Evil religious freakazoid murderer][/B]
Apparently some HBO Behind the Scenes something indicates that Martin did tell the show of this future book development.
So blame GRRM.
[url]http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-shireen-baratheon-death-800862[/url][/QUOTE]
George R.R. Martin telling them that Shireen gets burned in the books doesn't change the fact that she doesn't die here. If Stannis burned his child at the point he's at in the books, I'd probably be horrified (the desired emotional response), but I'd have felt the narrative earned it.
In the show, at the particular point in the narrative in which it occurs, it feels unearned*. It also has the nasty side effect of making the Bolton vs Stannis conflict a battle between two "bad" forces that feel like utter distractions to the main narratives.
EDIT: * at least to me.
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The only thing that I will agree with is that the narration of the severity of Stannis's situation could have been better. His camp was hit pretty hard, his men are only sellswords, supplies are low. So he had to make a move. I think had this happened three episodes ago, the justification of him doing this could have been more acceptable to some.
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[QUOTE=ChaoticScholar;1261237]At this rate, I have nobody to cheer for, and nobody to invest in. I fully expect everybody to die, or meet a bad end, I was half expecting Dany to die, cus fans like her.[/QUOTE]
I'm still invested in and cheer for Varys, Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, etc. Some might meet a tragic end, but that's life. They are folks that might end up making [U]the realm[/U] a better place than the Mad King & Robert & Joffrey made it.
No offense, but if you were "cheering" for Stannis before he murdered his daughter (and now not), then that's effed up. Stannis just goes from one vile act to another in the show.
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Says a guy cheering for Jamie. Let's not forget who Jamie is.
Outside of Jon Snow and Tyrion, I'm not sure anyone in this show is actually good. Even Tyrion isn't the best human being.
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[QUOTE=JBatmanFan05;1261299]I'm still invested in and cheer for Varys, Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, etc. Some might meet a tragic end, but that's life. They are folks that might end up making [U]the realm[/U] a better place than the Mad King & Robert & Joffrey made it.
No offense, but if you were "cheering" for Stannis before he murdered his daughter (and now not), then that's effed up. Stannis just goes from one vile act to another in the show.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps its my own memories from the books (sometimes my brain crosses the show and the books) but Stannis is more likeable in the books than in the show. And Varys considerably less likeable in the books than in the show. I was mainly rooting for Stannis because he seemed to be the only one who could rout the Boltons and foil Littlefinger by being so darn stubborn. And his "dutifullness" made him endearing in some weird way.
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[QUOTE=Joker;1261316]Says a guy cheering for Jamie. Let's not forget who Jamie is.[/QUOTE]
That's true. I've given up only cheering for "good" people. As there aren't any on this show. Varys let people die by not helping them. Dany is a killer. Jon, Tyrion, etc. Sansa has lied for and helped the murderer of her aunt.
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[QUOTE=ChaoticScholar;1261237]At this rate, I have nobody to cheer for, and nobody to invest in. I fully expect everybody to die, or meet a bad end, I was half expecting Dany to die, cus fans like her.[/QUOTE]
Spoiler: Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Bran, Arya, and maybe Sansa were always the main characters of this series.
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Oh yeah, Bran is a good kid. Basically The Starks are pretty decent people. Arya, while we like her and cheer for her, has decided to become an assassin.
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[QUOTE=lancerman;1261325]Spoiler: Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Bran, Arya, and maybe Sansa were always the main characters of this series.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Even if Sansa doesn't play a huge role in the books (I think she will), I think she is one of the main group in the show for sure.
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That's what this show does, though. It lowers the bar so low, you cheer for people who aren't as bad as someone else.
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[QUOTE=Flash Gordon;1260263]
This whole episode had me on the edge of my seat throughout. I don't know why but the whole time that Arya was in the brothel with those pedophile knights I was so on edge.[/QUOTE]
Point of order - only Trant seemed to have that particular inclination. His men were looking at him like, "You fookin' want what now?"
[QUOTE=Flash Gordon;1260263]Not a smart move for her to be going in to places that might not allow her to leave. She's one of my favorites, she has to be smarter than that. A girl needs to know.
[/QUOTE]
A girl has let Arya Stark's business distract her from her task.
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[QUOTE=JBatmanFan05;1261299]I'm still invested in and cheer for Varys, Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, etc. Some might meet a tragic end, but that's life. They are folks that might end up making [U]the realm[/U] a better place than the Mad King & Robert & Joffrey made it.
No offense, but if you were "cheering" for Stannis before he murdered his daughter (and now not), then that's effed up. Stannis just goes from one vile act to another in the show.[/QUOTE]
Nope, and that's where the show lost me. There's no point in pulling for anyone. There's no payoff, if I want "real medieval tragedy', I'll look elsewhere. You're dealing with dragons man.
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[QUOTE=Joker;1261334]Oh yeah, Bran is a good kid. Basically The Starks are pretty decent people. Arya, while we like her and cheer for her, has decided to become an assassin.[/QUOTE]
I see it as more Arya wants revenge against the people who killed her family. She has come to realize that she CANNOT gain that revenge by drawing a sword and striking them all down. Thus? She has turned to a group of people who can, she thinks, teach her the skills she needs to take her revenge in a way that may actually work for her. The mere fact that she has consistently refused to engage in the Faceless Men's identity renouncing practices shows that she doesn't really believe what they believe. She just thinks she can take what they can teach her while remaining true to herself.
She hasn't yet killed anyone who wasn't A) actively engaged in trying to hurt/kill her, or B) already dying and beyond help. That's not quite the same thing as saying that she actually wants to take up a life of killing people for fun or profit.
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[QUOTE=Spike-X;1261344]A girl has let Arya Stark's business distract her from her task.[/QUOTE]
It's hard to believe Jaqen can't see that Arya has not the slightest interest in the mysterious agenda of the Faceless. She wants to learn how to kill people that she wants to kill... not people somebody else wants to kill.
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[QUOTE=Joker;1261340]That's what this show does, though. It lowers the bar so low, you cheer for people who aren't as bad as someone else.[/QUOTE]
Yes. The show is many ways a big lesson in the lesser of the evils. I think as far as individuals, the show works off the idea that no one is an angel...we all have faults and selfishnesses and apathies about us. Some of us have bad pasts. But life and people are always changing and fluid some, and some change more than others, for better or for worse.