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Didn't hate it but there were a couple things that kept it from being good in my opinion.
1. [B]The Dialogue[/B] - A lot of it didn't sound realistic to me. At some points, it was downright corny.
2. [B]Young Bruce[/B] - I just wasn't impressed by the actor's performance.
Also, I felt the tone of the show was a little more "comic booky" than I expected. I was expecting something grittier and a little more down to earth. However, I'm going to look at this as a positive. If they went full on with the gritty & realistic tone then I'd just be watching the Wire or Law & Order in Gotham. So maybe the cheesy dialogue and over the top performances aren't a bad thing.
[QUOTE=saul_on_the_road_to_damascus;536724]i see your point. Though it also concerns me that we are supposed to root for Cobblepot.[/QUOTE]Why are we supposed to root for Cobblepot? We're just following his story just like any of the other main characters.
[QUOTE=Hypestyle;538213]Is the precinct captain Montoya's mother?[/QUOTE]What makes you think they're related?
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I hope we don't see Fish after this. She didn't do much for me.
I liked the suggestion of a relationship between Montoya and Barbara. So this is why Barbara leaves Jim after they get married, hm? I like that much better than her disappearing for no good reason in the comics. Most comic book treatments don't do much with Gordon's off panel wife.
The series seems to amalgamate elements from different treatments of Batman. Some things felt very much like classic Batman and not beholden to the Frank Miller re-invention. For the most part, I appreciate these liberties.
The one character I didn't like being shoehorned into the story was Selena Kyle. Not that I mind her involvement in the plot--it's just the age of the actress playing her, who seems to be at least five years older, maybe ten, than the young actor playing Bruce. They can take liberties with a lot of other characters--but everybody in the general public knows that Catwoman is Batman's love interest--shades of Natalie Portman and Jake Lloyd in THE PHANTOM MENACE.
Since the actress didn't even have any lines, I would have preferred she was played by a younger actress, the way they did with Ivy. And by the way, it doesn't matter to me that she's called Ivy (in the comics, Poison Ivy has had a few different names over the years)--this is the kind of thing that diehard comic book fans pay attention to, but it would go right over the heads of most people in the audience.
As a police detective crime show, this was good enough. Not THE MENTALIST, but in that territory. The elements of the comic book sometimes take away from its effectiveness as a procedural drama. But they're trying to establish a singular style for this show. The scene where Bullock and Gordon are both hanging like meat recalls a classic trap for the Dynamic Duo from the '60s TV show and yet Gotham is shown as one of the darkest cities you'd ever want to live in--and who would want to? I think that mix of absurd, comic and gritty could synthesize into an effective formula for the series.
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[QUOTE=saul_on_the_road_to_damascus;536724]i see your point. Though it also concerns me that we are supposed to root for Cobblepot.[/QUOTE]
What makes you think we are supposed to root for him?
You could say we [I]can[/I], or maybe we [I]should[/I], but I'm not sure if the intention of certain scenes is for that. Or of the show. Though admittedly, I did root for him to either kill Fish, escape from the pier, or what have you. For better or worse, that's how I felt, with him specifically.
Can focus on a character, like Walter White, watch their corruption, and rise, and fall, and rise, and fall and so on. It's up to us whether we root for their success, their failure, or simply follow their exploits, and see how it all unfolds.
Here, once more I'd say it's up to us, when it concerns Oswald - or even rough around the edges Bullock. I mean, you could argue with someone like him, are we meant to root for him and is that a sickening thing? Or, leeway due to being a protagonist, or police officer?
Ultimately, I think here we're to watch Oswald's, rather than corruption, per say, then his rise in the ranks, and to the position and not a right hand man, or anything, but instead, a crime lord in his own right.
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I was hoping that Penguin would take Gordon's advice and go far away, only to come back in ten years--fatter, with a monocle and a British accent. But I guess he's meant to be a series regular. In that case, he should try to change his look and adopt an alias so neither the police nor the mob realize that he's still alive and go gunning for him. He didn't really look like a Penguin to me--more iike a young Barnabas Collins.
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[QUOTE=saul_on_the_road_to_damascus;536739]Then don't watch. I liked this take on Alfred. It is something we haven't seen before as far as I know.[/QUOTE]
Or, give the show another bit of a go, a certain amount of episodes, or uncertain amount, then stop if you decide 'No, this isn't for me'.
I mean, saul, if you only give a show a go and aren't sure about it, and someone says to you not to watch, then they don't...that might not be a good thing.
If someone had said that to me after Sleepy Hollow, or Community, series premieres, I would've been out of one of my favourite shows, comedy, or otherwise, and a good drama that I enjoy to this day.
That wouldn't have been that good, really, I think.
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[QUOTE=Crimson Knight;538386]Or, give the show another bit of a go, a certain amount of episodes, or uncertain amount, then stop if you decide 'No, this isn't for me'.
I mean, saul, if you only give a show a go and aren't sure about it, and someone says to you not to watch, then they don't...that might not be a good thing.
If someone had said that to me after Sleepy Hollow, or Community, series premieres, I would've been out of one of my favourite shows, comedy, or otherwise, and a good drama that I enjoy to this day.
That wouldn't have been that good, really, I think.[/QUOTE]
another example: AOS. people **** on this one up and down and swore it would never see another season.
and look whats coming on after "dancing with the stars" tonight.
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[QUOTE=Daryl;537756]My ass wasn't kicked but I will keep watching.
Please, though, lose the shaky-cam shots of them running. It looks more like drug trip images from something like "Trainspotting" than anything else.[/QUOTE]
Ha HA! LOVE that you feel the same way as I, because when I was watching it, I said to my Dad how it seemed more like a drug thing.
Likr Gordon was on drugs or something like that. He said it was just trying to show how fast it was, but I'm just used to that sort of method of thing from the character in question being on drugs.
Might be another way to give off the frantic, rushed vibe of that kind of thing, in future.
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I think what was interesting to me was how they showed the pressure on the GCPD to arrest someone for the Wayne's murder. I haven't read all 900 issues of Batman but I don't think anyone's thought to explore what they and the city went through having that drag out. How the police are tied in with the mob does lend credence to the belief that Batman and Commissioner Gordon will have a better city under them than they did before Batman.
They definitely jammed a lot of cameos in the pilot which I read they purposely "front loaded" it and will draw back on that in future episodes. All in all, it had a better pilot that Agents of Shield had and I ended up really liking AoS so this could go good too.
[QUOTE=Jim Kelly;538330]I hope we don't see Fish after this. She didn't do much for me.[/quote]
Well I hate to disappoint you but she's not a guest star and I thought we all knew that. :p
[QUOTE]
Tit's just the age of the actress playing her, who seems to be at least five years older, maybe ten, than the young actor playing Bruce[/QUOTE]
The actress is one year older than the actor who plays Bruce. One. That age girls mature before boys on average so she may seem a bit older but it's one year.
[QUOTE]A Godfather who is buds with a DA [/QUOTE]
Yeah, they established the aw enforcement and the mafia are connected, it makes sense for the top guys to know each other. That's their world.
[QUOTE]And why didn't Gordon go to law school? That would have been the more real life reality of the son of a DA.[/QUOTE]
Drunk driver killed his dad, he became a cop for vengeance. Not that hard to see they're mirroring Batman with the guy who ends up being Batman's confidant.
[QUOTE]I have to say, Arrow is still the best realized comic book hero TV show ever done. Arrow is what Batman year one TV show should model itself after. And it is fun! A lot of fun! Gotham did not seem fun to me.[/QUOTE]
Ok, so you're just here to prove your loyalty to Arrow by bashing Gotham. Never mind.
[QUOTE=Vidocq;536989]
Also is the Joker supposed to be that old in relation to Bruce...?
[/QUOTE]
In the comics? Anything goes for Joker's age since we don't know much about him for real. In previous incarnations the Joker has been played by actors older than Batman like Cesar Romero was 19 years older than Adam West and Jack Nicholson is 13 years older than Michael Keaton if my math is correct.
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[QUOTE=RobinFan4880;538100]Big Bang premiered two new episodes directly opposite Gotham. Big Bang was likely the big winner of the night, although Dancing with the Stars (which was also opposite Gotham) will likely do well as well.[/QUOTE]
I didn't mean the *RATINGS* winner. I thought it was obvious from the context. I meant the winner with *me*.
But nevermind, no need to get into parsing semantics.
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[QUOTE=Jim Kelly;538330]The one character I didn't like being shoehorned into the story was Selena Kyle. Not that I mind her involvement in the plot--it's just the age of the actress playing her, who seems to be at least five years older, maybe ten, than the young actor playing Bruce. They can take liberties with a lot of other characters--but everybody in the general public knows that Catwoman is Batman's love interest--shades of Natalie Portman and Jake Lloyd in THE PHANTOM MENACE. .[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PretenderNX01;538448]The actress is one year older than the actor who plays Bruce. One. That age girls mature before boys on average so she may seem a bit older but it's one year.[/QUOTE]
Yep, and I bet the storyline has her younger than her actual 15. They do that all the time. I bet that in the end they'll be pretty much within a year of each other story-wise as well.
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[QUOTE=PretenderNX01;538448]I think what was interesting to me was how they showed the pressure on the GCPD to arrest someone for the Wayne's murder. I haven't read all 900 issues of Batman but I don't think anyone's thought to explore what they and the city went through having that drag out. How the police are tied in with the mob does lend credence to the belief that Batman and Commissioner Gordon will have a better city under them than they did before Batman.
They definitely jammed a lot of cameos in the pilot which I read they purposely "front loaded" it and will draw back on that in future episodes. All in all, it had a better pilot that Agents of Shield had and I ended up really liking AoS so this could go good too.
Well I hate to disappoint you but she's not a guest star and I thought we all knew that. :p
The actress is one year older than the actor who plays Bruce. One. That age girls mature before boys on average so she may seem a bit older but it's one year.
Yeah, they established the aw enforcement and the mafia are connected, it makes sense for the top guys to know each other. That's their world.
Drunk driver killed his dad, he became a cop for vengeance. Not that hard to see they're mirroring Batman with the guy who ends up being Batman's confidant.
Ok, so you're just here to prove your loyalty to Arrow by bashing Gotham. Never mind.
In the comics? Anything goes for Joker's age since we don't know much about him for real. In previous incarnations the Joker has been played by actors older than Batman like Cesar Romero was 19 years older than Adam West and Jack Nicholson is 13 years older than Michael Keaton if my math is correct.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure about Mazouz and Bicondovas' ages? I remember when they were cast she was 13, thought he was 10, or something like that.
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[B]The actress is one year older than the actor who plays Bruce. One. That age girls mature before boys on average so she may seem a bit older but it's one year.[/B]
Okay, I take back my earlier comment. In that case, I'm even happier with the show now. There's not a whole lot I can complain about.
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[QUOTE=Crimson Knight;538487]I remember when they were cast she was 13, thought he was 10, or something like that.[/QUOTE]Really?! She has a very mature looking face. On a side note, does anyone think she's a dead ringer for Michelle Pfiefer?
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Bicondovas b. May 22, 1999.
Mazouz b. February 19, 2001.
So more than a year, less than two years.
And again, they can and probably will adjust the storyline to fit.
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[QUOTE=maczero;538268]Didn't hate it but there were a couple things that kept it from being good in my opinion.
1. [B]The Dialogue[/B] - A lot of it didn't sound realistic to me. At some points, it was downright corny.
2. [B]Young Bruce[/B] - I just wasn't impressed by the actor's performance.
Also, I felt the tone of the show was a little more "comic booky" than I expected. I was expecting something grittier and a little more down to earth. However, I'm going to look at this as a positive. If they went full on with the gritty & realistic tone then I'd just be watching the Wire or Law & Order in Gotham. So maybe the cheesy dialogue and over the top performances aren't a bad thing.
Why are we supposed to root for Cobblepot? We're just following his story just like any of the other main characters.
What makes you think they're related?[/QUOTE]
what makes you think that they're not? ;)