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How do you guys feel about the fact at times many of the relationships in a sense are within the family? I don't mind it every now and then. It's just at times I would rather have it branch out. Sure we get Babs and Dick but we also get Babs and Bruce. I rather like it now where Jason is with Artemis. So far I think no one is dating each other
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4829036]How do you guys feel about the fact at times many of the relationships in a sense are within the family? I don't mind it every now and then. It's just at times I would rather have it branch out. Sure we get Babs and Dick but we also get Babs and Bruce. I rather like it now where Jason is with Artemis. So far I think no one is dating each other[/QUOTE]
There's a clear struggle in DC about relationships, at least there appears to be from the way they've handled Bat/Cat and Dick/Babs, and even Jason/Artemis. There's a real sense that we're in the early 2000s and no writer has figured out how to write couples who are together but still interesting romantically.
But that's because they are bad writers. Not because there's some magic in UST that makes it a better story. It's just an easier story to tell.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4829036]How do you guys feel about the fact at times many of the relationships in a sense are within the family? I don't mind it every now and then. It's just at times I would rather have it branch out. Sure we get Babs and Dick but we also get Babs and Bruce. I rather like it now where Jason is with Artemis. So far I think no one is dating each other[/QUOTE]
Babs and Bruce was only in the animated series and its spin-off comics. Not the mainline (at least Post-Crisis). And that was more like Bruce Timm imagining himself as Batman and getting every girl all the time. Except for Hawkgirl.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4829036]How do you guys feel about the fact at times many of the relationships in a sense are within the family? I don't mind it every now and then. It's just at times I would rather have it branch out. Sure we get Babs and Dick but we also get Babs and Bruce. I rather like it now where Jason is with Artemis. So far I think no one is dating each other[/QUOTE]
I don't want anymore "dating within the family." Someone posted a chart years ago with the X-Men based on who dated who, after awhile it gets ridiculous and starts to feel pretty incestuous. So nothing beyond Dick/Babs, Step/Tim and Bruce/Selina for me. I like Jason with Artemis too although I get the impression it's being held back. It's one of the only new pairings that I feel is being built up well. They went from reluctant allies to friends with their attraction building up.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4829036]How do you guys feel about the fact at times many of the relationships in a sense are within the family? I don't mind it every now and then. It's just at times I would rather have it branch out. Sure we get Babs and Dick but we also get Babs and Bruce. I rather like it now where Jason is with Artemis. So far I think no one is dating each other[/QUOTE]
I think a romantic relationship has sense if is useful to develop the characters and/or tell a story: the relationship among Bruce and Seline did both things and this is why I think it became so iconic. But if a relationship is created only to put some cheap romance in the book (or if the writer isn't able to write it well), well I prefer not to have any relationship. Personally I see a good potential both in the relationship between Dick and Barbara than in the one between Tim and Stephanie, so I support them, but in my opinion those are the only good relationships inside the Bat-family while any other (hypothetycal or not) relationships seem to me only cheap romanticism.
To conclude I support all the relationships if:
1) they are well written
2) they help to develop the characters
3) they are useful to develop the story
otherwise I prefer not to have any relationship; it doesn't matter if it is inside or outside the family.
Obviously too many relationships inside the family would be boring and they would seem forced, but in certain cases can be good.
[QUOTE=millernumber1;4829048]There's a clear struggle in DC about relationships, at least there appears to be from the way they've handled Bat/Cat and Dick/Babs, and even Jason/Artemis. There's a real sense that we're in the early 2000s and no writer has figured out how to write couples who are together but still interesting romantically.
But that's because they are bad writers. Not because there's some magic in UST that makes it a better story. It's just an easier story to tell.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
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Bruce needs to retire and say retired. Let Dick take over.
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In my humble opinion Bruce needs writers able to write him like he was in the animated series of ninety: serious, resolute, determined, but not jerk and without any psychopath or sociopath trait.
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[QUOTE=Gotham citizen;4830856]In my humble opinion Bruce needs writers able to write him like he was in the animated series of ninety: serious, resolute, determined, but not jerk and without any psychopath or sociopath trait.[/QUOTE]
But then we can't have any tedious drama.
(I agree with you 100%)
If DC is going to push Batman as much as they do, the least they could do is make him likable like he used to be in BTAS or pre-COIE.
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[QUOTE=E.Marie;4830710]I don't want anymore "dating within the family." Someone posted a chart years ago with the X-Men based on who dated who, after awhile it gets ridiculous and starts to feel pretty incestuous.[/QUOTE]
Good God, if you can find that chart please PM it to me. That sounds hilarious XD
[QUOTE=Otto Gruenwald;4830836]Bruce needs to retire and say retired. Let Dick take over.[/QUOTE]
I'm okay with Bruce retiring. Not so much with Dick or any of the Robins taking his place. Let them find their own paths. I'd personally be okay if Batman began and ended with Bruce. But Batman Beyond has made me really like Terry in the role
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Batman (the brand) and Batman (the character) need to embrace the Family in a healthier way.
Fans like the family. There's a whole "MCU" amount of potential movie adaptations if you did a "Gotham Cinematic Universe" that took advantage of the wealth of valuable IP within the Bat Family alone.
Joker
Harley Quinn
The Batman
Batgirl
Nightwing & Robin
Red Hood
Catwoman
The Huntress
Batwoman
Gotham City Sirens
Gotham City Cops
All different possible film or TV franchises with the right management... there's how many Ant Man movies but it's just impossible to do a competent Batgirl or Robin film?
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[QUOTE=gregpersons;4831614]Batman (the brand) and Batman (the character) need to embrace the Family in a healthier way.
Fans like the family. There's a whole "MCU" amount of potential movie adaptations if you did a "Gotham Cinematic Universe" that took advantage of the wealth of valuable IP within the Bat Family alone.
Joker
Harley Quinn
The Batman
Batgirl
Nightwing & Robin
Red Hood
Catwoman
The Huntress
Batwoman
Gotham City Sirens
Gotham City Cops
All different possible film or TV franchises with the right management... there's how many Ant Man movies but it's just impossible to do a competent Batgirl or Robin film?[/QUOTE]
I mean, that's not even counting the team up movies (a la Ant-Man and Wasp and the Disney Plus shows) - Batman/Catwoman, Nightwing/Oracle (or Batgirl), League of Batgirls, Batman Inc, Robins (all five).
And yes. My biggest problem with this issue is that Tynion promised "this is where the Batfamily is going," and...it's nothing anybody seems to want. Everyone hating each other, everyone mad, nobody teaming up or offering any kind of positive relationships.
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[QUOTE=gregpersons;4831614][…]
All different possible film or TV franchises with the right management... there's how many Ant Man movies but it's just impossible to do a competent Batgirl or Robin film?[/QUOTE]
Why was the USA army more effective during the Second World War than the later ones? Because they fired the Generals who made some mistakes.
[video=youtube;AxZWxxZ2JGE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxZWxxZ2JGE&t=1s[/video]
Or like a bigwig of Yamaha said last year, about the lack of competitiveness of their MotoGP bike: «To change the bike is necessary change ourselves»; then they fired the chief designers of that bike.
[QUOTE=millernumber1;4831639][…]
And yes. My biggest problem with this issue is that Tynion promised "this is where the Batfamily is going," and...it's nothing anybody seems to want. Everyone hating each other, everyone mad, nobody teaming up or offering any kind of positive relationships.[/QUOTE]
I'm starting to think Tynion's task is prepare the ground for the 5G event. So if there will be a new Batman, then Bruce need a reason to retire.
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[QUOTE=Otto Gruenwald;4830836]Bruce needs to retire and say retired. Let Dick take over.[/QUOTE]
Dick doesn't want the mantle if it's not an emergency
[QUOTE=Gotham citizen;4830856]In my humble opinion Bruce needs writers able to write him like he was in the animated series of ninety: serious, resolute, determined, but not jerk and without any psychopath or sociopath trait.[/QUOTE]
Hear! Hear!
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;4831639]
And yes. My biggest problem with this issue is that Tynion promised "this is where the Batfamily is going," and...it's nothing anybody seems to want. Everyone hating each other, everyone mad, nobody teaming up or offering any kind of positive relationships.[/QUOTE]
Bruce not doing anything about his family problems is very much in character for Rebirth Bruce and considering what happened in King's run and in their own titles I don't get why people expected this to be the issue where the batfamily would cheer Bruce up.
And some people here on cbr really act as if everyone was just straight up insulting Bruce when that's not what happened. Damian didn't blame Bruce one bit, Tim offered help, Jason also didn't blame Bruce he just said it was Bruce's responsibility to fix things, Ric tried to do the best he could without having is memories and while Barbara wasn't polite to Bruce I don't see why she should be and none of what she said wasn't legitimate criticism.
And Tynion announced a batfamily event for the summer in his news letter, I always expected the reconciliation to happen then. Until then Bruce has some time to think and try fix his relationships.
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[QUOTE=Otto Gruenwald;4830836]Bruce needs to retire and say retired. Let Dick take over.[/QUOTE]
I agree, 100%.