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[QUOTE=VanWinkle;2438770]Rebirth Deluxe is the 80-page Rebirth one-shot along with a few bonus pages. The Rebirth omni is all of the Rebirth #1 one-shots (these came before each series' proper #1s), supposedly along with the 80-page Rebirth one-shot.[/QUOTE]
At first the Rebirth One Shot was IN the Omnibus. I even had it pre ordered at an amazing price, for Canada, and then at some point along the way they decided it shouldn't be included and it's now got its own "Rebirth Deluxe Collector's Edition"
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[QUOTE=TomSlick;2437210]Kyle was a decent GL - despite his stupid mask - prior to Winick. But Winick - with his imagination and creativity - made him great.
And then came his GA run. Now, I suspect history will be kinder to it and I didn't find it as bad as some, but he followed it up with GA and Black Canary which was downright fucking horrible. Especially what he did to Connor.
That said I'd recommend that whole GL run that began in the 1990s. I think it ran for about 180 issues and also had some great stories by Gerard Jones and Ron Marz.[/QUOTE]
Wait, you don't like his mask!? :'(
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Just my $.02, but whenever I've encountered Judd Winick I have felt he wrote poor but readable comics. That sounds like a pretty damning assessment, but while he's never written anything that's truly good he's also never written anything that's downright bad. I have always been disappointed to see his name on something, but it doesn't stop me from picking it up. Many writers (especially at DC during the initial New 52 period) do a lot worse.
I have not yet read his Green Arrow and Green Arrow/Black Canary, but I did find a full set of both at an HPB on Black Friday. Totally bought that! I think I'm going to wait until they publish the Grell run up to Ollie's death, then have a big massive read.
Does anyone know for sure if DC ever published Green Arrow Into the Woods as a softcover? The hardcover is really easy to find, but I never see listings for a softcover. Amazon has an entry but I don't trust it.
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While the topic of Winnick is still relevent, does anybody have thoughts on his Outsiders run? I'm thinking of giving it a try.
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Wow. I guess I'm in the minority, but I've loved everything the guy wrote. ESPECIALLY Green Arrow. My favorite run of the character, no doubt. His Outsiders was also great, running alongside Johns' Teen Titans. His Batwing was also one of the most eye opening books I've ever read. I miss David Zavimbe.
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Judd Winick is the epitomy of a reliable B-Grade writer, nothing with his name on it is downright awful but nothing is going to ever be held up as a shining example of what makes comics so amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed his Green Arrow run, it had some great individual moments but theres was enough downtime between them and no singular thread (thematically or story-wise) holding it all together that makes it more than the sum of its parts. GA/BC was fine, Winick only wrote the first half of it, it only turned truly awful when Kreisberg took over (he also did an arc in the New 52 after Lemire left which was terrible).
There is a certain section of the internet that likes to **** on Winick as writer (although to be fair if you can find something the internet won't **** on i'd be suprised), lots of people claiming charecter assasination on various people, him trying to force his liberal agenda on the reader (the HIV/Gay Marriage storylines in GA for example)
, the criticism is out there and with a little bit of googling you can find it, but I wouldn't recommend anyone go looking for it.
If they put out a GA by Winick Omni i'd buy it in a heartbeat, because 1) I'm a sucker for anything GA and 2) the current trades for Winicks GA run are incomplete, theres a GA/GL crossover thats uncollected and one or two other single issues that for somereason didn't get put in the trades
[QUOTE=The Flicker Fade;2439019]
Does anyone know for sure if DC ever published Green Arrow Into the Woods as a softcover? The hardcover is really easy to find, but I never see listings for a softcover. Amazon has an entry but I don't trust it.[/QUOTE]
It exists I have a copy.
[QUOTE=NightwingIvI;2439115]While the topic of Winnick is still relevent, does anybody have thoughts on his Outsiders run? I'm thinking of giving it a try.[/QUOTE]
Go read it, its a solid book. [URL="http://comicvine.gamespot.com/outsiders-17-most-wanted-part-1/4000-98232/"]Issue #17 also includes a guest apperance by John Walsh, host of Americas Most Wanted,[/URL] which is weird as hell.
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He not only wrote Under the Red Hood but the screenplay for the animated film, which is easily one of the best put out yet. I certainly think if he has a legacy, it will be giving us the definitive Jason Todd story and returning him to the DCU.
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[QUOTE=NightwingIvI;2439115]While the topic of Winnick is still relevent, does anybody have thoughts on his Outsiders run? I'm thinking of giving it a try.[/QUOTE]
I really didn't care much for it. Partly because Winick is ho-hum, but partly because the cast just never did much for me. I didn't connect with a lot of the characters, who weren't very memorable. They're D-listers, if that. Who have all now disappeared entirely from the new DCU, I think, if that says anything about them. It's not that a team made up of D-listers can't be great if they're in the hands of the right writer, but Winick isn't that.
You do have Nightwing and Arsenal, so that's great, but Nightwing doesn't really act in character for much of it. He acts like he's Bruce rather than Dick. They're not consistently in the book, either. Starfire and Jade and Katana show up for a bit but also aren't consistently in the book. The rest of them are characters like Grace, Thunder, Shift, Indigo, Captain Boomerang's son, Captain Marvel Jr, etc. Who? Exactly.
I don't want to be too hard on Winick about the Outsiders though, because other writers picked up the book and failed with them too. Even Peter Tomasi (who rarely misses), later on. The problem really is that they're a directionless concept, a team without a strong mission statement or reason for being. Probably why they have yet to be revived in favor of other books and other concepts. But everything that goes around in comics comes around again, so it's only a matter of time before someone dusts them off and tries again.
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[QUOTE=MykeHavoc;2439250]He not only wrote Under the Red Hood but the screenplay for the animated film, which is easily one of the best put out yet. I certainly think if he has a legacy, it will be giving us the definitive Jason Todd story and returning him to the DCU.[/QUOTE]
That's right! I forgot all about that. I'd say that was definitely his apex. Its pretty fantastic.
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[QUOTE=MykeHavoc;2439212]Wow. I guess I'm in the minority, but I've loved everything the guy wrote. ESPECIALLY Green Arrow. My favorite run of the character, no doubt. His Outsiders was also great, running alongside Johns' Teen Titans. His Batwing was also one of the most eye opening books I've ever read. I miss David Zavimbe.[/QUOTE]
Batwing was something unusual for comics, and I'm glad it reached you and affected you to think about things in a manner you otherwise would not have. That's awesome. That's one of the big things we're looking for when we read, right? That and entertainment and displays of staggering creativity to admire, in both artwork and writing.
I don't think they were very well-written comics, but I'm not coming from that eye-opening perspective. I can see why you would appreciate it so much though.
[QUOTE=drd;2439226]It exists I have a copy.[/QUOTE]
Awesome, thanks! I'll continue to keep an eye out. Don't want one mismatched hardcover in my collection, I hate that.
[QUOTE=MykeHavoc;2439250]He not only wrote Under the Red Hood but the screenplay for the animated film, which is easily one of the best put out yet. I certainly think if he has a legacy, it will be giving us the definitive Jason Todd story and returning him to the DCU.[/QUOTE]
Controversial story, but I'd agree it's probably the best work he did.
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[QUOTE=FlashingSabre;2438591]
Go read it, its a solid book. [URL="http://comicvine.gamespot.com/outsiders-17-most-wanted-part-1/4000-98232/"]Issue #17 also includes a guest apperance by John Walsh, host of Americas Most Wanted,[/URL] which is weird as hell.[/QUOTE]
Ha ha, I liked that one. Yeah a lot of people crap on the social issues he would put in stories and to some extent they could seem preachy or forced. I don't blame the guy. It's something he believed in and comics were his outlet of getting out his message. The gay character(s) in GL, for example, worked and seemed to contribute to the stories and characterization.
But the AIDS story line in GA read like a poorly scripted after school public service announcement.
Anyway, back to the John Walsh comic. I think at the time AMW was about to leave the air after being on forever and it was a chance to give Walsh some publicity. I don't know. For some reason I liked the issue, maybe because I think Walsh is sincere in what he does and really made something of the tragedy he went through in his own life. Walsh sometimes came off corny, but I do think he was sincere.
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[QUOTE=The Flicker Fade;2439019]Just my $.02, but whenever I've encountered Judd Winick I have felt he wrote poor but readable comics. That sounds like a pretty damning assessment, but while he's never written anything that's truly good he's also never written anything that's downright bad. I have always been disappointed to see his name on something, but it doesn't stop me from picking it up. Many writers (especially at DC during the initial New 52 period) do a lot worse.
I have not yet read his Green Arrow and Green Arrow/Black Canary, but I did find a full set of both at an HPB on Black Friday. Totally bought that! I think I'm going to wait until they publish the Grell run up to Ollie's death, then have a big massive read.
Does anyone know for sure if DC ever published Green Arrow Into the Woods as a softcover? The hardcover is really easy to find, but I never see listings for a softcover. Amazon has an entry but I don't trust it.[/QUOTE]
I own a copy, so yes. I go it second hand as a gift, though, so I have no idea where to find one.
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Super off topic, but anyone else really excited for this HC of Legend of WW?! I've seen a few preview images, and the dust sleeve art looks amazing.
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[QUOTE=TheTemp;2438810]At first the Rebirth One Shot was IN the Omnibus. I even had it pre ordered at an amazing price, for Canada, and then at some point along the way they decided it shouldn't be included and it's now got its own "Rebirth Deluxe Collector's Edition"[/QUOTE]
See, that's what I thought, but somebody took pictures of the omnibus and one of the pages from the Rebirth one shot was among the pictures I saw. (edit: actually, looking back at the post on the FB group I'm on, the guy who posted the pictures confirmed that Rebirth #1 IS in the omni.)
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[QUOTE=VanWinkle;2439620]See, that's what I thought, but somebody took pictures of the omnibus and one of the pages from the Rebirth one shot was among the pictures I saw. (edit: actually, looking back at the post on the FB group I'm on, the guy who posted the pictures confirmed that Rebirth #1 IS in the omni.)[/QUOTE]
That's excellent news, thank you!