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If HiX-Man is going forward based off of what transpired in Morrison's X-men and quite possibly ignoring much of the "lost decade" where, let's be honest here, a lot of rubbish was strewn about, then...Jean and Emma being amicable in this Krakoa Era isn't that great of a stretch, logic-wise.
The X-Men in general seem to have a knack for forgiving (if not forgetting) past transgressions, see Magneto and Charles and the whole Onslaught debacle...so why should Jean and Emma and Storm be any different?
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771349]If HiX-Man is going forward based off of what transpired in Morrison's X-men and quite possibly ignoring much of the "lost decade" where, let's be honest here, a lot of rubbish was strewn about, then...Jean and Emma being amicable in this Krakoa Era isn't that great of a stretch, logic-wise.
The X-Men in general seem to have a knack for forgiving (if not forgetting) past transgressions, see Magneto and Charles and the whole Onslaught debacle...so why should Jean and Emma and Storm be any different?[/QUOTE]
Plus, with the whole soft reboot thing going on right now, it's the perfect time to do it if they decide to have that be the end goal.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771349]If HiX-Man is going forward based off of what transpired in Morrison's X-men and quite [B]possibly ignoring much of the "lost decade" where, let's be honest here, a lot of rubbish was strewn about,[/B] then...Jean and Emma being amicable in this Krakoa Era isn't that great of a stretch, logic-wise.
The X-Men in general seem to have a knack for forgiving (if not forgetting) past transgressions, see Magneto and Charles and the whole Onslaught debacle...so why should Jean and Emma and Storm be any different?[/QUOTE]
Hey, speak for yourself! My next unpopular opinion: I love a lot of the developments that came out of that era, is was so wonderfully character-based! <3
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[QUOTE=Tycon;4771329]With all the X-Men, and mutants in general, who get away with stuff on a story-to-story basis, yalls fixation of Emma really is interesting to see unfold.[/QUOTE]
Right? Rogue did some pretty horrid shit to Captain Marvel and, you know, the X-Men themselves. Emma’s crimes are about on par, and it’s not like they were magically erased and never thrown in Emma’s face. Moreover, people seem to forget how many times they’ve faced literal extinction. Storm or Jean not working with Emma in the face of such stakes would be petty and beneath them.
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Exactatiously!
Why would they (HiX-Man and Co.) hold fast to destructive/messy issues of the past when said issues don't positively serve the narrative going forward?
What would be the reason for Storm to continue to resent Emma specifically for taking over her body, years ago when she was a true HFC villain, when everything that she's done up to the very present indicates a significant change in character and intention?
Why would they (Emma, Jean and Storm) choose to remain so frayed when the survival game has greatly changed?
I'm all for referencing and learning from the past.
Living in the past is pointedly tragic and foolish. Especially when the present is so much more interesting and the future, promising.
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[QUOTE=The Quiet Councilor;4771394]Right? Rogue did some pretty horrid shit to Captain Marvel and, you know, the X-Men themselves. Emma’s crimes are about on par, and it’s not like they were magically forgotten. People seem to forget how many times they’ve faced literal extinction. Storm or Jean not working with Emma in the face of such stakes would be petty and beneath them.[/QUOTE]
The way I see it, it's kind of like with real people: some personalities just gel better with others.
Like, Rogue was rough and brash and head-strong, but during her redemption, you saw how vulnerable she was, how unsure...but how determined. She wasn't really the type you'd expect to keep secrets, very much a character who can wear her heart on her sleeve, ya know?
Emma's very different; though she's shown to care so, [I]so[/I] much in private moments and appears to be empathetic in her own right...she's also very calculating. She can manipulative, still, not to mention stand-offish. All things that come across very strongly to a reader and...when she's scheming...there's always a little niggle of "Oh, yeah, [I]that's[/I] classic Emma..."
Which, actually now that I think about it, maybe that's the issue? Classic Rogue is very, very different from Classic Emma? If Emma were to further evolve from that, then maybe...? (But that's subjective reading talking too, don't forget!)
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[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4771405]The way I see it, it's kind of like with real people: some personalities just gel better with others.
Like, Rogue was rough and brash and head-strong, but during her redemption, you saw how vulnerable she was, how unsure...but how determined. She wasn't really the type you'd expect to keep secrets, very much a character who can wear her heart on her sleeve, ya know?
Emma's very different; though she's shown to care so, [I]so[/I] much in private moments and appears to be empathetic in her own right...she's also very calculating. She can manipulative, still, not to mention stand-offish. All things that come across very strongly to a reader and...when she's scheming...there's always a little niggle of "Oh, yeah, [I]that's[/I] classic Emma..."
Which, actually now that I think about it, maybe that's the issue? Classic Rogue is very, very different from Classic Emma? If Emma were to further evolve from that, then maybe...? (But that's subjective reading talking too, don't forget!)[/QUOTE]
Also Rogue was raised by two criminals destiny and mystique, she didn't knew better. And she was really young. I think that having a open and positive personality also helps
Also she didn't went back to that.
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It's not subjective at all...Emma has most certainly "evolved" far beyond her classic HFC villain days. It's right there in the pages of the comics from as early as the Original New mutant era just after the Beyonder paid them a visit. And most assuredly during the Phalanx Covenant into Gen X.
If anyone of the detractors would care to (re) read.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771395]Exactatiously!
Why would they (HiX-Man and Co.) hold fast to destructive/messy issues of the past when said issues don't positively serve the narrative going forward?
What would be the reason for Storm to continue to resent Emma specifically for taking over her body, years ago when she was a true HFC villain, when everything that she's done up to the very present indicates a significant change in character and intention?
Why would they (Emma, Jean and Storm) choose to remain so frayed when the survival game has greatly changed?
I'm all for referencing and learning from the past.
Living in the past is pointedly tragic and foolish. Especially when the present is so much more interesting and the future, promising.[/QUOTE]
Because it makes for actual character interaction? Because that in itself could be a plot-point? Just because it's messy narratively doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed, especially if we're to view these characters as actual people. That is actually what defines character [I]evolution[/I] rather than writer's mis-interpretation.
Plus, there's the fact that it was a bad experience: Storm is a character who is very prideful, who doesn't like to feel out of control. Though she can be very loving and caring, she does [I]not[/I] forget what wrongs have been done to her, nor what it made her feel. Traumatic or not, if you haven't ever reached such closure...trust me. You [I]don't[/I] just 'forgive' something like that. Maybe put it aside to work with someone, but never, ever forgive without good cause. Don't forget, everyone's still an [I]individual[/I]: you can't expect a nation's expectations for mutants to be 'united' to truly translate for everyone so smoothly.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771395]Exactatiously!
Why would they (HiX-Man and Co.) hold fast to destructive/messy issues of the past when said issues don't positively serve the narrative going forward?
What would be the reason for Storm to continue to resent Emma specifically for taking over her body, years ago when she was a true HFC villain, when everything that she's done up to the very present indicates a significant change in character and intention?
Why would they (Emma, Jean and Storm) choose to remain so frayed when the survival game has greatly changed?
I'm all for referencing and learning from the past.
Living in the past is pointedly tragic and foolish. Especially when the present is so much more interesting and the future, promising.[/QUOTE]
Emma really showed that she is different? She killed hundreds of inhumans using sentinels. and she also tried to rape Tyke.
Also abuse isn't erased because the person is "better" now. Victims have to live with that for the rest of their lives
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771411]It's not subjective at all...Emma has most certainly "evolved" far beyond her classic HFC villain days. It's right there in the pages of the comics from as early as the Original New mutant era just after the Beyonder paid them a visit. And most assuredly during the Phalanx Covenant into Gen X.
If anyone of the detractors would care to (re) read.[/QUOTE]
Evolved, yes, but she's not as detached from her classic self as Rogue was, is what I'm saying. Plus there's always the impression the character may just leave for readers. Myself, for example: I accept that she's no longer 'out for evil,' but I don't trust her as a person. She's too arrogant for my liking and still a bit too self-serving (again, [I]my[/I] interpretation.) Not to mention scheming and calculating as hell; who knows what she's got next up her sleeve? [I]That's[/I] also what people might carry at the back of her mind from her HFC days (the scheming, to be clear.)
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Every single X-Men character...every. single. one. has had several excruciatingly bad experiences though-out their written histories.
What we see on the pages are these characters dusting themselves off and moving forward, stronger and more determined and better.
What we don't see are these characters dwelling on the past, wallowing in misery and angst.
So it's quite perplexing how and why a subsection of the readership enjoys living in those pasts, so much so that it ruins any joy to be had in the present.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771425]Every single X-Men character...every. single. one. has had several excruciatingly bad experiences though-out their written histories.
What we see on the pages are these characters dusting themselves off and moving forward, stronger and more determined and better.
What we don't see are these characters dwelling on the past, wallowing in misery and angst.
So it's quite perplexing how and why a subsection of the readership enjoys living in those pasts, so much so that it ruins any joy to be had in the present.[/QUOTE]
We saw all characters moving forward, but that doesn't mean that they all should be friends. Very common not being friends or wanting to do with abusers, specially when it is sexual abuser.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771425]Every single X-Men character...every. single. one. has had several excruciatingly bad experiences though-out their written histories.
What we see on the pages is these characters dusting themselves off and moving forward, stronger and more determined.
What we don't see is these characters dwelling on the past, at least not too much.
So it's quite perplexing how and why a subsection of the readership enjoys living in those pasts, so much so that it ruins any joy to be had in the present.[/QUOTE]
No, I don't enjoy living those pasts; I enjoy seeing the actual transitions between 'traumatised' and 'recovered' and all the nitty-gritty that it takes to get there. The suspicion, the tensions; that makes for great interaction and makes it feel all the more [I]earned[/I] when hatchets can finally be buried!
It really isn't good enough for a writer to come in and say "Ok, pretend all that past stuff never happened!" I need to see the characters on-panel reasoning, I need to see characters prove themselves in that respect.
And that doesn't mean having issue upon issue of them arguing; it just means that their interactions have to reflect within what the plot currently demands them to do. It enriches the story.
For example: Gambit can't forgive Apocalypse in Excalibur--that's fine. Gambit still feels affected by what happened to him and Apocalypse has done nothing to atone for it in his eyes--that's where he's at right now. Will it change? Maybe; that's part of the journey.
Had Gambit just reached out to be best friends with Apocalypse? Lazy.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4771395]Exactatiously!
Why would they (HiX-Man and Co.) hold fast to destructive/messy issues of the past when said issues don't positively serve the narrative going forward?
What would be the reason for Storm to continue to resent Emma specifically for taking over her body, years ago when she was a true HFC villain, when everything that she's done up to the very present indicates a significant change in character and intention?
Why would they (Emma, Jean and Storm) choose to remain so frayed when the survival game has greatly changed?
I'm all for referencing and learning from the past.
Living in the past is pointedly tragic and foolish. Especially when the present is so much more interesting and the future, promising.[/QUOTE]
IvX. Emma played and manipulated Storm into a war with the Inhumans. I dont want to debate the stupidity of that event but in canon, Storm took that hard, so much tht she stepped down from being leader. She did blame Emma and she felt Emma played her for a fool and she beat herself up for trusting Emma, looking stupid and the countless unnecesary lives that were killed as a result of this. Storm not trusting Emma now in Maraurders makes perfect sense given that fairly recent interaction when they were allied. In the Xmen Black issue, Emma manipulated the X-men again which resulted in her seizing power of the HFC. Heck she wasnt even around bc of AoX, but Im sure she learned how Emma played the X-men yet again with that vaccine plot. Storm declined being Emma's Red Queen bc she did not want to put herself in a position to be Emma's pawn again. How many times can she let her guard down around Emma, only to have Emma have ulterior motives and play her? Storm has strong animosity bc she is fed up with Emma's bullsh-t. She has valid reasons not to trust her
I think its misguided to assume that Storm's resentment is due solely to having her body stolen years ago. Storm did get past that and she gave Emma a chance to redeem herself and they did work alongside each other. However it hurts more when you've made yourself vulnerable, forgiven and trust someone you've had issues with, only to get burned by that person. If Kitty and others want to be friends with Emma and accept her in their circle, Storm isnt going to get in their way but in her mind, she doesnt have to be as open and frankly she doesnt need to