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[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2256831]It's gonna be pretty tough to be smarter than the dude who is currently [I]rebuilding the multiverse.[/I][/QUOTE]
Valeria's already smarter. couldn't be that hard. I'd also place Ultimate Reed Richards above him. then there's Doom. Reed isn't even rebuilding the multiverse alone.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2256848]Valeria's already smarter. couldn't be that hard. I'd also place Ultimate Reed Richards above him. then there's Doom. Reed isn't even rebuilding the multiverse alone.[/QUOTE]
We know Reed is smarter than Doom. It's why Reed gets to recreate the multiverse after Doom botched the job.
[QUOTE=Wulf1984;2256425]Hahaha! Just like how every X-Man is some Omega-level mutant with leadership capabilities.
[B]I'll believe it when heroes start visiting Moon Girl for scientific help and advice or Doctor Doom starts beefing with her because she's smarter than he is.[/B][/QUOTE]
I suppose when that happens, some will default to the predictable accusations of "jobbing out established characters to boost newbies" at that juncture.
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2256871]We know Reed is smarter than Doom. It's why Reed gets to recreate the multiverse after Doom botched the job.[/QUOTE]
all that proves is that Reed is better at interior design. Reed failed to solve the incursion problem; where Doom succeeded. you think Reed would ever have come up with the idea to create his own religion/set himself up as God?
I cannot wait to see who they put her up against given that Bruce Banner, Reed Richards and Hank Pym aren't on Earth anymore.
Who knows what is Tony Stark's true fate and who knows if she'll get T'challa a call ?
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2257128]all that proves is that Reed is better at interior design. Reed failed to solve the incursion problem; where Doom succeeded. [B]you think Reed would ever have come up with the idea to create his own religion/set himself up as God?[/B][/QUOTE]
No, because that was a bad idea, seeing how it all turned out.
But I will agree that Doom is smarter than Lunella as well. Nothing against her, she's very bright, but Reed and Doom are on another level from everyone.
If that's what they're doing with Moon Girl it makes her a whole lot [B]less[/B] interesting to me. Whenever they do that to get a character over and boost them to ludicrous levels it makes me think that the writers can't think of anything else to make the character palatable than make them into a Mary Sue. I don't mind them doing that to villains since having a credible threat is essential but just boosting heroes willy nilly seems silly.
Also getting characters all [I]the action[/I] annoys me. Every time I'd read about Wolverine bagging another female it would annoy me. The guy's 5'3", not really charismatic and he probably smells really bad all the time. Can you imagine Logan's breath? Smoking those cigars? I'm sure he has terrible dental hygiene.
I just want to note something: "Smart" is often used to indicate a person's potential. There's a lot of brilliant people who never amounted to anything, whether due to lack of opportunity, lack of motivation, or any number of reasons. There very well may be someone out there who's smarter than Stephen Hawking, but who's spent their whole life shoveling **** for a circus. Or they dedicated themselves to fields where their intelligence didn't lend itself to fame and glory.
So when Marvel declares Moon Girl the Smartest Person in the World, of course they're not saying she's accomplished more than other geniuses. They're seeing she has the potential to accomplish more.
As far as demonstrations of her intelligence: She's a 9-year-old girl with minimal resources who built a secret lab beneath her school, complete with advanced computers capable of monitoring for the Terrigen Cloud. She built a device to help her track down Kree technology, and seemed pretty confident she could use the Kree technology to prevent being affected by Terrigenesis. She's built a whole bunch of little gadgets out of whatever she could find. Saying her intelligence hasn't been shown is just plain wrong. It is factually incorrect. It is clear that she is an absolutely brilliant girl, a genuine, bonafide genius of the highest order. That she's not an expert on every field under the sun does not diminish how smart she is. It just means she's still young and hasn't had the chance to learn a lot yet.
And yeah yeah, "then they should say she has the potential to be the smartest," whatever. That's a semantic argument. People often talk about how smart a person is to indicate their potential.
And the key thing to remember: This is an all-ages book meant to appeal to a non-traditional audience. It's meant to appeal to the kind of audience who doesn't obsess over "feats" and poring over old comics to determine specific rankings of who's smarter or stronger or faster than whom. Is this meant as an attention-grabbing thing? Yep! It sure as hell is! [I]Because Marvel is a goddamn business and wants to sell comics and wants to sell comics to people who don't normally buy comics![/I] And they need to get attention to do that. So wah wah, Marvel's hurting your feelings by saying that a 9-year-old black girl is smarter than a bunch of old white dudes, boo hoo, tough ****. Don't like it? Don't read the book. It's not like it's going to be getting referenced elsewhere. It's not like the Avengers are going to turn to Moon Girl for help. Dr. Doom won't be asking her to help him improve his armour. The odds of her appearing as anything more than an extra in any other comic over the next couple years are pretty low. So if you're not reading her title, then all this **** [I]is completely frigging meaningless to you[/I]. And if you are reading her title, then it's because you enjoy what Reeder, Montclare, Bustos and Bonvillain are doing, and they're going to keep doing what they're doing, so if you've enjoyed it so far you'll continue to enjoy it.
The senseless bitching of entitled fanboys gets so ridiculous.
Edit: I may as well note that I haven't read the article, because it won't load. Hell of a site CBR runs.
[QUOTE=Tiamatty;2257724]I just want to note something: "Smart" is often used to indicate a person's potential. There's a lot of brilliant people who never amounted to anything, whether due to lack of opportunity, lack of motivation, or any number of reasons. There very well may be someone out there who's smarter than Stephen Hawking, but who's spent their whole life shoveling **** for a circus. Or they dedicated themselves to fields where their intelligence didn't lend itself to fame and glory.
So when Marvel declares Moon Girl the Smartest Person in the World, of course they're not saying she's accomplished more than other geniuses. They're seeing she has the potential to accomplish more.
As far as demonstrations of her intelligence: She's a 9-year-old girl with minimal resources who built a secret lab beneath her school, complete with advanced computers capable of monitoring for the Terrigen Cloud. She built a device to help her track down Kree technology, and seemed pretty confident she could use the Kree technology to prevent being affected by Terrigenesis. She's built a whole bunch of little gadgets out of whatever she could find. Saying her intelligence hasn't been shown is just plain wrong. It is factually incorrect. It is clear that she is an absolutely brilliant girl, a genuine, bonafide genius of the highest order. That she's not an expert on every field under the sun does not diminish how smart she is. It just means she's still young and hasn't had the chance to learn a lot yet.
And yeah yeah, "then they should say she has the potential to be the smartest," whatever. That's a semantic argument. People often talk about how smart a person is to indicate their potential.
And the key thing to remember: This is an all-ages book meant to appeal to a non-traditional audience. It's meant to appeal to the kind of audience who doesn't obsess over "feats" and poring over old comics to determine specific rankings of who's smarter or stronger or faster than whom. Is this meant as an attention-grabbing thing? Yep! It sure as hell is! [I]Because Marvel is a goddamn business and wants to sell comics and wants to sell comics to people who don't normally buy comics![/I] And they need to get attention to do that. So wah wah, Marvel's hurting your feelings by saying that a 9-year-old black girl is smarter than a bunch of old white dudes, boo hoo, tough ****. Don't like it? Don't read the book. It's not like it's going to be getting referenced elsewhere. It's not like the Avengers are going to turn to Moon Girl for help. Dr. Doom won't be asking her to help him improve his armour. The odds of her appearing as anything more than an extra in any other comic over the next couple years are pretty low. So if you're not reading her title, then all this **** [I]is completely frigging meaningless to you[/I]. And if you are reading her title, then it's because you enjoy what Reeder, Montclare, Bustos and Bonvillain are doing, and they're going to keep doing what they're doing, so if you've enjoyed it so far you'll continue to enjoy it.
The senseless bitching of entitled fanboys gets so ridiculous.
Edit: I may as well note that I haven't read the article, because it won't load. Hell of a site CBR runs.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not saying she's not smart, I'm saying she's not as smart as the dude recreating the multiverse. And that's really not an insult.
Wouldn't have mattered as much if Marvel began writing her speaking like a scientific genius right from the start by using a writer as Hickman or Ellis.
But smartest person in the Marvel U with her still being in elementary school among her peers? No university? Parents can't at least put her in an academic school with kids her age?
No wonder entitled fanboys are pissed off at this obvious lazy push for the newest IP destined for a cartoon if not movie.
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2258104]Again, I'm not saying she's not smart, I'm saying she's not as smart as the dude recreating the multiverse. And that's really not an insult.[/QUOTE]
Well, Reed's not in the Marvel Universe right now, is he? And anyway, we know he considers his own daughter to be smarter than he is, so even if he's recreating the multiverse, it still doesn't mean he's the smartest.
[QUOTE=Colossus1980;2258172]Wouldn't have mattered as much if Marvel began writing her speaking like a scientific genius right from the start by using a writer as Hickman or Ellis.[/quote]
Right, because Hickman and Ellis are well-known for their talents as all-ages writers. You get that the point of the book was to appeal to a younger audience, right? Like, there's no way that putting Ellis on this book would have worked out. It would have been a completely different book. A complete tonal opposite. It may have been a book you would have enjoyed more, but it would not have been this book. You already have tons of books aimed at you, Marvel wants a different audience. Also, "uses big words" isn't the be-all end-all of intelligence. Her vocabulary is definitely stronger than that of the average 9-year-old, but she doesn't give a damn about impressing anyone, so she just speaks normally. And, of course, having her use a lot of big words would work against the intended audience of young people.
[quote]But smartest person in the Marvel U with her still being in elementary school among her peers? No university? Parents can't at least put her in an academic school with kids her age?[/quote]
I explained this. People often speak of intelligence when referring to potential. To raw brainpower, rather than overall knowledge. We don't actually know why none of the specialty schools accepted her applications. Maybe her parents couldn't afford some of them, and there were no slots open at the ones they could afford. Maybe her school record shows a history of poor behaviour, or poor attendance. We don't know. Regardless, [I]we frigging know that she is a legitimate genius of the highest order[/I], no matter her school. We've seen that. We have seen tons of examples of just how incredibly brilliant she is.
[quote]No wonder entitled fanboys are pissed off at this obvious lazy push for the newest IP destined for a cartoon if not movie.[/QUOTE]
Again: So frigging what that they're trying to give this character a push? Seriously, why does this matter to you? How does this affect you at all? If she starts showing up in other books, then it will affect you. As long as all this is happening in her own book, [I]then why the hell do you care[/I]? Just pretend the whole thing is in an alternate universe, boom, I've just solved your entire problem with the premise. Until Lunella shows up in Infamous Iron Man and has Doom concede that she's smarter than he is, [I]you don't have to give one single damn about her[/I].
[QUOTE=Tiamatty;2258736][B]Well, Reed's not in the Marvel Universe right now, is he? And anyway, we know he considers his own daughter to be smarter than he is, so even if he's recreating the multiverse, it still doesn't mean he's the smartest.[/B]
Right, because Hickman and Ellis are well-known for their talents as all-ages writers. You get that the point of the book was to appeal to a younger audience, right? Like, there's no way that putting Ellis on this book would have worked out. It would have been a completely different book. A complete tonal opposite. It may have been a book you would have enjoyed more, but it would not have been this book. You already have tons of books aimed at you, Marvel wants a different audience. Also, "uses big words" isn't the be-all end-all of intelligence. Her vocabulary is definitely stronger than that of the average 9-year-old, but she doesn't give a damn about impressing anyone, so she just speaks normally. And, of course, having her use a lot of big words would work against the intended audience of young people.
I explained this. People often speak of intelligence when referring to potential. To raw brainpower, rather than overall knowledge. We don't actually know why none of the specialty schools accepted her applications. Maybe her parents couldn't afford some of them, and there were no slots open at the ones they could afford. Maybe her school record shows a history of poor behaviour, or poor attendance. We don't know. Regardless, [I]we frigging know that she is a legitimate genius of the highest order[/I], no matter her school. We've seen that. We have seen tons of examples of just how incredibly brilliant she is.
Again: So frigging what that they're trying to give this character a push? Seriously, why does this matter to you? How does this affect you at all? If she starts showing up in other books, then it will affect you. As long as all this is happening in her own book, [I]then why the hell do you care[/I]? Just pretend the whole thing is in an alternate universe, boom, I've just solved your entire problem with the premise. Until Lunella shows up in Infamous Iron Man and has Doom concede that she's smarter than he is, [I]you don't have to give one single damn about her[/I].[/QUOTE]
That's quibbling. And for what it's worth, I bet Valeria is smarter than Lunella as well. As well as Doom, who we could both agree is in the Marvel Universe.
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2258743]That's quibbling. And for what it's worth, I bet Valeria is smarter than Lunella as well. As well as Doom, who we could both agree is in the Marvel Universe.[/QUOTE]
Reed and Valeria, at this point, are irrelevant. They're not in the stories. Bringing them up is pointless. With Doom, well, we'll have to wait and see how the story goes. But it does look like she's going to be portrayed as smarter than he is. And, again, note that this does not mean she [I]knows more[/I] than he does. Of course she doesn't. It does mean that she's likely a better problem-solver, and it's likely that's what we'll see in the story.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2256802]but it's alright when it's not a newfangled character, though; right? because Doctor Doom has made Reed look stupid; plenty of times. people like Ant-Man, Luke Cage, and Squirrel Girl have made Doom look stupid, at least once. people are not going to accept Lunella as a super genius until she does something with her intellect that Reed or Doom haven't. and some people will see that as a slight against Reed and/or Doom. there's no avoiding it. personally, I think they called her the smartest because it is attention-grabbing. it's right out of the Stan Lee playbook.[/QUOTE]
What? No one's gone and ask Stan if he's fine with it? I'm sure CBR news is waiting to start another thread based on his response.
[QUOTE=Ken Ashcroft;2258802]What? No one's gone and ask Stan if he's fine with it? I'm sure CBR news is waiting to start another thread based on his response.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why anyone asks Stan Lee's opinion on anything Marvel does.
"Hey Stan, what do you think of this thing?"
"Great! Wonderful! I love it! Excelsior!"
"You didn't even look at what I was talking ab-"
"I said Excelsior! and I meant Excelsior! 'Nuff said, True Believer!"
Edit: I don't mean this as a bash on Stan, of course. The man is an endless fount of enthusiasm and it's wonderful. It just means that asking him to comment on anything Marvel does is kinda meaningless, as his response will always be positive. Especially because, as far as he's concerned, none of the characters are his. They're Marvel's characters, created under work-for-hire, so he's always taken a "whatever Marvel does is what they do" approach.