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[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2259385]That's a false equivalence. Lunella doesn't inhabit her own universe. If she's the smartest person in the entire universe, she will be compared to the resident big-brains in that universe. You can not like it all you want, but that's a fact.[/QUOTE]
A universe Reed no longer inhabits. So he [I]doesn't. Actually. Matter.[/I]
[QUOTE=Tiamatty;2259366]Your mentions of Reed are a red herring in the logical fallacy sense of the term. It's intended as a distraction from the larger discussion. And the point of this story is going to be to compare her to specific genius characters she will encounter over the course of the story. Reed will not be one of those characters, so he has absolutely no bearing to anything that happens in the story. If a character is described as the Greatest Martial Artist Alive, you don't compare them to someone who's dead. You compare them to other living martial artists. It's the same thing here. Lunella is the smartest person in the world, so people off-world have nothing to do with anything. When Reed returns, [I]then[/I] the debate opens about whether she's smarter than he is. As long as he's still gone? Who gives a shit how he ranks up. He's gone.[/QUOTE]
in the interest of intellectual honesty, they could prove that Lunella is smarter than Reed and the people who are against this marketing ploy aren't going to change their minds about it. Comic book readers are just kvetching because that's what we do.
[QUOTE=Tiamatty;2259387]A universe Reed no longer inhabits. So he [I]doesn't. Actually. Matter.[/I][/QUOTE]
I don't know what to say. Reed Richards still exists in the Marvel Universe. We even know what he's doing. I don't know what you want me to say.
I guess I can name other characters that I believe are smarter than Lunella: T'challa, Tony Stark, Doom, Mentor, Amadeus Cho.
I would say Beast too, but I wouldn't put it past Marvel to make her smarter than him just to one-up mutants.
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2259188]I wouldn't call it a problem, but I will say I'm skeptical and the writers will have to do a pretty damn good job to convince me that a 5 year-old is smarter than the dude currently recreating the multiverse.[/QUOTE]
you keep saying this as if it's a intellectual feat of some sort (Franklin has created realities). he's putting a puzzle together with the aid of others (one of them is a little girl who is supposed to be smarter than Reed). and it's finishing what someone else (Doom) started. it's not like Reed invented a machine to create multiple realities. your invoking Reed Richards is a strawman argument. he isn't around to compete with Lunella; intellectually.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2259389]in the interest of intellectual honesty, they could prove that Lunella is smarter than Reed and the people who are against this marketing ploy aren't going to change their minds about it. Comic book readers are just kvetching because that's what we do.[/QUOTE]
Probably. Reed was established in the '60s as the Smartest Character, so [I]no one[/I] will [I]ever[/I] be allowed to be smarter. Because the '60s is the only decade that matters, the characters created in the '60s are the only characters who matter, and any character created later than 1970 can rot in hell.
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2259391]I don't know what to say. Reed Richards still exists in the Marvel Universe. We even know what he's doing. I don't know what you want me to say.[/QUOTE]
Is he in the Marvel Universe? Or is he in the Beyond? Regardless, he's not on Earth, he's not appearing anywhere, [I]he doesn't goddamn matter[/I] and he won't matter until he actually starts showing up again so your insistence on going back to him is pointless. And also, [I]ignores the existence of Valeria[/I]. We [I]know[/I] Valeria's smarter than he is. So [I]we know[/I] that characters can be smarter than he is. Why is it OK for Valeria to be smarter, but not for Lunella? Answer me that. Why can Valeria be smarter than Reed, but Lunella isn't allowed to be?
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2259399]I guess I can name other characters that I believe are smarter than Lunella: T'challa, Tony Stark, Doom, Mentor, Amadeus Cho.
I would say Beast too, but I wouldn't put it past Marvel to make her smarter than him just to one-up mutants.[/QUOTE]
Well, she'll definitely be smarter than Cho. We don't know if Tony will be alive or not. We'll see if Doom or T'Challa shows up. Mentor's an alien so he doesn't really count - aliens never count in considerations of smartest characters.
Regardless, the story's going to demonstrate how she's the smartest person in the world, and if it just shatters your whole world that a black girl could be smarter than Doom, then just pretend the book doesn't exist.
Edit: Here's what it comes down to. This is an all-ages book about a young girl of colour, intended to appeal to a non-traditional comic audience. It's meant to serve as something young girls and young people of colour (and especially young girls of colour) can be inspired by, to draw them to STEM fields by letting them see themselves in Lunella. To tell them, "This can be you." That science isn't just for white men, or just for men in general. That's what this book is. That's why it exists. Lunella being shown as smarter than anyone else? A kid story. A fairly standard kid story, at that, but being played out among the Marvel Universe, which has long been a boys' club.
The people who are angry about this need to realize something: [I]You are not the intended audience of this book.[/I] The intended audience is young people. That's who Reeder and Montclare are writing for. Not 40-year-old white dudes who grew up on a bunch of white dudes being the geniuses (with a couple token black guys, and a few women in throwaway supporting roles who don't actually matter). They're writing for kids, especially girls and children of colour, so that they can grow up in a world where White Male [I]isn't[/I] the peak of intelligence.
It's OK if this book isn't for you. But if it's not for you, then just don't read, and stop complaining about the fact that Marvel is trying to do something to reach out to an audience that isn't you. Stop being so goddamn entitled.
It's interesting to see how other news outlets are covering the story. At first it was revealed offhand but then Marvel realized it could be big XD
[url]http://qz.com/744493/a-9-year-old-black-girl-is-officially-the-smartest-person-in-the-marvel-universe/[/url]
[url]http://hiphopwired.com/2016/07/28/moon-girl-smartest-marvel/[/url]
[url]http://www.newsarama.com/30407-marvel-wants-you-to-know-moon-girl-is-the-smartest-person-in-the-marvel-universe.html[/url]
[url]http://www.vibe.com/2016/07/marvel-universe-lunella-moon-girl/[/url]
"Naming the smartest person in the Marvel Universe a nine-year-old black female is definitely groundbreaking, a fact that seems to have subsequently occurred to Marvel over the last couple of days. While not initially promoted by the publisher as a convention announcement, Marvel seems to be pushing the story through more 'mainstream' news outlets such as Buzzfeed and Teen Vogue over the last two days."
[QUOTE=lalalei2001;2259516]It's interesting to see how other news outlets are covering the story. At first it was revealed offhand but then Marvel realized it could be big XD
[url]http://qz.com/744493/a-9-year-old-black-girl-is-officially-the-smartest-person-in-the-marvel-universe/[/url]
[url]http://hiphopwired.com/2016/07/28/moon-girl-smartest-marvel/[/url]
[url]http://www.newsarama.com/30407-marvel-wants-you-to-know-moon-girl-is-the-smartest-person-in-the-marvel-universe.html[/url]
[url]http://www.vibe.com/2016/07/marvel-universe-lunella-moon-girl/[/url]
"Naming the smartest person in the Marvel Universe a nine-year-old black female is definitely groundbreaking, a fact that seems to have subsequently occurred to Marvel over the last couple of days. While not initially promoted by the publisher as a convention announcement, Marvel seems to be pushing the story through more 'mainstream' news outlets such as Buzzfeed and Teen Vogue over the last two days."[/QUOTE]
Which suggests two things. First, that it wasn't devised as a sales-boosting idea. Second, that Marvel's PR people might actually kinda suck at what they do. Like, come on, how did they not think ahead of time, "Oh, hey, this is something we could probably get some attention with, we should get word out about it to a variety of sources."
[QUOTE=Tiamatty;2259430]Probably. Reed was established in the '60s as the Smartest Character, so [I]no one[/I] will [I]ever[/I] be allowed to be smarter. Because the '60s is the only decade that matters, the characters created in the '60s are the only characters who matter, and any character created later than 1970 can rot in hell.
Is he in the Marvel Universe? Or is he in the Beyond? Regardless, he's not on Earth, he's not appearing anywhere, [I]he doesn't goddamn matter[/I] and he won't matter until he actually starts showing up again so your insistence on going back to him is pointless. And also, [I]ignores the existence of Valeria[/I]. We [I]know[/I] Valeria's smarter than he is. So [I]we know[/I] that characters can be smarter than he is. Why is it OK for Valeria to be smarter, but not for Lunella? Answer me that. Why can Valeria be smarter than Reed, but Lunella isn't allowed to be?
Well, she'll definitely be smarter than Cho. We don't know if Tony will be alive or not. We'll see if Doom or T'Challa shows up. Mentor's an alien so he doesn't really count - aliens never count in considerations of smartest characters.
Regardless, the story's going to demonstrate how she's the smartest person in the world, and if it just shatters your whole world that a black girl could be smarter than Doom, then just pretend the book doesn't exist.
Edit: Here's what it comes down to. This is an all-ages book about a young girl of colour, intended to appeal to a non-traditional comic audience. It's meant to serve as something young girls and young people of colour (and especially young girls of colour) can be inspired by, to draw them to STEM fields by letting them see themselves in Lunella. To tell them, "This can be you." That science isn't just for white men, or just for men in general. That's what this book is. That's why it exists. Lunella being shown as smarter than anyone else? A kid story. A fairly standard kid story, at that, but being played out among the Marvel Universe, which has long been a boys' club.
The people who are angry about this need to realize something: [I]You are not the intended audience of this book.[/I] The intended audience is young people. That's who Reeder and Montclare are writing for. Not 40-year-old white dudes who grew up on a bunch of white dudes being the geniuses (with a couple token black guys, and a few women in throwaway supporting roles who don't actually matter). They're writing for kids, especially girls and children of colour, so that they can grow up in a world where White Male [I]isn't[/I] the peak of intelligence.
[B]It's OK if this book isn't for you. But if it's not for you, then just don't read, and stop complaining about the fact that Marvel is trying to do something to reach out to an audience that isn't you. Stop being so goddamn entitled.[/B][/QUOTE]
Get off your high horse. You can't even discuss this without resorting to stupid straw-man arguments. I never said the book wasn't for me. All I said was that I was skeptical. Sorry that pisses you off so much. Maybe you should take a step back if this makes you so upset. Stop being so goddamn condescending.
My only real concern about this idea is that it might get debunked or retconned in another book somewhere down the line, like if/when Reed comes back to the Marvel Universe or the latest edition of the Marvel Handbook gets released.
Of course, being [I]smart[/I] and being [I]wise[/I] are two different things, and I like the angle they're going for with Lunella wanting recognition and getting it in the worst way possible.
[QUOTE]I don’t want to spoil any of them yet, but that’s the evolution of her character; to be a bigger part of the Marvel Universe. She is finally recognized, and with that recognition comes responsibility and expectations. She’s going to have to change, not be as introverted as she has been.
When “Cosmic Cooties” ends, Lunella’s life is going to change in a big way. What does that mean for the tone and feel of “Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur?”
Montclare: What I think is important, creatively, is that you don’t lose what’s worked for the first nine issues. She is going to be becoming a big, important part of the Marvel Universe, and we’ll be expanding the things she learns about herself and the world, so to speak. But I think you’re always going to have to have her in a certain position; one where she’s struggling.
She’s definitely growing up, but I don’t think it’s going to be a radically different book. We’re not trying to change the tone. I think what we’re doing will keep everyone super happy, and new people picking it up are in for some exciting stuff too.
So she’s very much a Peter Parker-style underdog character.
Montclare: Yeah, she doesn’t have a lot of luck. I also think “with great power comes great responsibility” can also be interpreted as, “be careful what you wish for.” She wanted the recognition, and now everyone is going to know who she is, and some people will have plans for her.
What can you tell us about the new story that kicks off in issue #13?
Montclare: All we can say is, it’s a six-issue arc. There’s going to be six guest stars, and they’re all Marvel heavy hitters. I’ll let people fill in the blanks. Every issue will feature somebody from a different part of the Marvel Universe.
Reeder: I see this whole thing she’s undergoing as almost an Arthurian, pulling the sword out of the stone-style test. Now that’s she done that, she has to face all the challengers in her new state. She’s going to embark upon an unintentional quest to prove herself.
Montclare: Yeah, it’s not going to be just her ego. It will be the circumstances beyond this space age Rubik’s Cube that Bruce Banner left behind. For people who ask, “What’s she ever done?” That’s kind of the point of the next arc, “The Smartest There Is.” There will be no doubt at the end of issue #18 that she’s got a lot of brains. [/QUOTE]
EDIT: the solicit is interesting too.
[QUOTE]Her brain is the only super-power she’ll ever need! Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom, T’Challa, Amadeus Cho… the greatest minds in the Marvel Universe all have one thing in common: They’re not smarter than a 4th grader! That’s right, the rumors are true – Lunella Lafayette is the SMARTEST PERSON ON EARTH. It’s time to put her unrivaled intellect to the ultimate test. Thankfully her best friend, Devil Dinosaur, is thirty feet of mutated prehistoric muscle making for the prefect combination of brains AND brawns! And they’re going to need it to stand up to some of the worst villains the Marvel Universe has to offer![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2259537]Get off your high horse. You can't even discuss this without resorting to stupid straw-man arguments. I never said the book wasn't for me. All I said was that I was skeptical. Sorry that pisses you off so much. Maybe you should take a step back if this makes you so upset. Stop being so goddamn condescending.[/QUOTE]
You're not the only person who's been criticizing the announcement. You're not the only one I was speaking to with that edited section of my post. If you're enjoying the book, then relax. You'll continue to enjoy the book. It'll have the same clever writing and the same cute art. It'll be fine.
Aw, I was set to make a joke about the Power Grid having to be adjusted but Lunella's not on the character list yet.
[url]http://marvel.com/characters/browse[/url]
She'll have these guys and girls to compete with too.
[url]http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Super-Genius_Intelligence[/url]
[url]http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Omniscient_Intelligence[/url]
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2259537]Get off your high horse. You can't even discuss this without resorting to stupid straw-man arguments. I never said the book wasn't for me. All I said was that I was skeptical. Sorry that pisses you off so much. Maybe you should take a step back if this makes you so upset. Stop being so goddamn condescending.[/QUOTE]
You do know what your problem is right? Unless you have positive opinions about this subject, don't post. No negativity allowed. Don't be an ignorant racist stuck back in the 60's clinging on to white supremacy.
[QUOTE=Colossus1980;2259693]You do know what your problem is right? Unless you have positive opinions about this subject, don't post. [B]No negativity allowed.[/B] Don't be an ignorant racist stuck back in the 60's clinging on to white supremacy.[/QUOTE]
Seems good to me. I get the feeling you're being sarcastic, but I'm not sure why this wouldn't be something for everyone to aspire to.
[QUOTE=Tiamatty;2259729]Seems good to me. I get the feeling you're being sarcastic, but I'm not sure why this wouldn't be something for everyone to aspire to.[/QUOTE]
Because this is a forum and opinions are subjective and allowed to be expressed regardless of if they are agreed with or not.
For example I find it's an incredibly unrealistic pedestal to place a 9 year old on even for a comic book (and if you want to bring up Valeria, yea I find her highly Mary Sue-esc as well given that she's only 3). Are you honestly saying that if she was just a gifted little girl that that wouldn't be inspirational to the target audience? That the only way that she could inspire anyone is by being the absolute best? The problem with boosting up a character while undermining others for the express purpose of appealing to a target demographic is that this is a shared universe thus what is canon to one point must also be canon to all points. I myself am a PoC and even I find this concept to be ridiculous.