The 2009 Animated film has probably been the definitive Wonder Woman origin story for some time now, not to mention we are getting a live-action film soon...
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The 2009 Animated film has probably been the definitive Wonder Woman origin story for some time now, not to mention we are getting a live-action film soon...
[QUOTE=Pinsir;2529026]The 2009 Animated film has probably been the definitive Wonder Woman origin story for some time now, not to mention we are getting a live-action film soon...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, considering the "Zeus created the amazons" thing that we're getting in the movie, it doesn't surprise me Rucka (and DC Comics) didn't touch on that point for now. Maybe that will be the definitive origin depending on the movie performance.
Dull issue that promised answers and gave out none. The ultimate battle was so quick and underwhelming that they had to tack on a terroist attack at the end that came from nowhere. I do wonder if the stuff at the UN was because of recent events however.
[QUOTE=Outside_85;2528707]
Save for all of those Elseworld tales that also tends to do some tweaking one way or another that has no real influence on the main version of the character.
And what Morrison does is what Morrison does, no one really appears to control what that man does at the best of times. And in this case he wanted to retell Superman's 1940'ties adventures, not his real origins, with a 2011 twist and added some 5th dimensional magic.
Ok, when did GL have one? Because that was a series Johns continued writing with no change on any level despite Flashpoint happening. And Aquaman, as you say, is hints of his past spread through out his adventures today... not a trip into the past like Year One was.
And Shazam wasn't a league founder or has had a solo book yet, neither did Cyborg for years and he didn't need one since his origins was part of the League's own.[/QUOTE]
And neither do the Elseworld origin stories that WW has been getting lately.
What do you mean "his 1940s adventures, not his real origins"? What are the "real" origins? Because we got the flashbacks of Krypton exploding, the Kents finding him, early childhood moments, his first arrival in Metropolis, and his first encounters with his supporting cast and villains. Sounds like an origin tale to me. Especially as it was part of a line wide reboot, so Morrison doing what Morrison does is incidental. If he didn't do it, someone else would have.
GL: Secret Origin, well before Flashpoint, that retconned Atrocitus into Hal's origin and set up Blackest Night. A common complaint when that came out was that it replaced Emerald Dawn. And both are still available, just like this and Gods and Mortals will be available at the same time.
Shazam not being a League founder doesn't have much to do with anything (I never said he was?), he still got a new origin when they could have just re-printed his post-Crisis origin and told people to go read that for the basics.
It's really as simple as the fact that the New 52 reboot did huge amounts of damage to WW's mythos and viability and we needed to take time to reestablish her true status and iconic storyline in-canon, with the mainline continuity, purging the stuff that doesn't work and reestablishing the stuff that does. That's truly all there is to it.
(And it's not just Azzarello's stuff either. It's also what came before with JMS's self-important half-baked reboot, along with what came after with the Finches' insanity.)
Lots of people like the New 52. Great, okay. But can you sort of empirically understand how the New 52 version of Wonder Woman does not make for an archetypal, accessible blueprint for the world's most famous superhero woman? That DC is going to have a hard time putting Amazon rapists in films and TV shows and characters like Zola, Hera, Orion, and Lennox (who's dead anyway) on lunchboxes and school binders? That folks like Steve Trevor and Etta Candy are inherently more representative of Wonder Woman's history and it's therefore kind of important to reestablish their relationship with her? That they're not going to point to a run of comics that [b]specifically and intentionally decimates most of Wonder Woman's iconic storylines[/b] and say, "Look, here it is, the most iconic Wonder Woman story! Build off this, my hardworking employees~"
(And oh yeah she was Superman's girlfriend too. Joy.)
It needed a hard disk reboot. It needed a restoration of WW's more enduring, accessible characteristics, but it couldn't just go back to the exact way things were before the New 52, either; after all, that worldstate was [i]also[/i] kind of confusing and nonviable (thanks, JMS :p). Lest we forget, Year One doesn't just paint over the New 52, it rejiggers almost the entirety of post-Crisis stuff as well, paring everything down to the most basic building blocks and trying to fix all the elements that were bogging the character down before. It's a needed fresh slate...in all respects, a true Rebirth, not just slapping on that branding for the heck of it.
[QUOTE=BrianWilly;2529284](And it's not just Azzarello's stuff either. It's also what came before with JMS's self-important half-baked reboot, along with what came after with the Finches' insanity.)[/QUOTE]
Arrrgh! Once again: JMS's run was NOT a reboot. The story ended with everything being put back exactly as it was! The only changes that were sticking was the new costume and Diana's memories of the Odyssey story. That's it!
Anyway? Great issue! Loved that Diana's origin actually feels like her origin again.
Yeah, I agree that Ares went down far too easily, but I'm going to chalk that up to "She had the gods backing her up."
It seems to me Ares suffered the same fate as his fellow gods. All of them appear as animals avatars except the War God. Now he has also been reduced to a similar state, making me thing there a lot more to Veronica Cale's dogs than meets the eye. You can actually see "Fear" and "Terror" emerging from under his cloak. So Ares has been kind of discorporated, split off into separate components.
[QUOTE=Vanguard-01;2529306]
Yeah, I agree that Ares went down far too easily, but I'm going to chalk that up to "She had the gods backing her up."[/QUOTE]
I won't say this issue is perfect by a long shot. Even compared to some of Rucka's other writing it seems lite. The fight with Ares felt entirely too brief - Nicola does amazing art but I didn't appreciate her having to carry that whole confrontation in six panels.
Ironically though I know I have said I had decompression, this issue really needed it. The battle with Ares should probably have been the climax of the issue, and then the next one Diana dealing with the gas plot. As it is it feels incredibly rushed.
But of course, there WAS this :)
[IMG]http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo37/brettc1_photos/Wonder%20Woman%2014%20-%20Page%2020_zpswtzr3yzm.jpg[/IMG]
[SIZE=6]OH YEAH![/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Vanguard-01;2529306]Arrrgh! Once again: JMS's run was NOT a reboot. The story ended with everything being put back exactly as it was! The only changes that were sticking was the new costume and Diana's memories of the Odyssey story. That's it!
Anyway? Great issue! Loved that Diana's origin actually feels like her origin again.
Yeah, I agree that Ares went down far too easily, but I'm going to chalk that up to "She had the gods backing her up."[/QUOTE]
Yep. I think Odyssey was intending to alter things more than they actually did, bear in mind. But even then not a full reboot. I think they were aiming for a little something like what's going to happen with Superman in Superman Reborn. It just didn't pan out. But either way it wasn't going to be a reboot. It was going to be an epic designed to eventually set things right again, but the totality of that would have been tweaked some. Like a mini Zero-Hour.
The problem is that even if Odyssey wasn't intended to be permanent -- and you certainly wouldn't know that from the way JMS bragged about his ideas and innovations -- all it did was add more confusion and complications to WW's status quo at a time when she most needed clarity and cohesion. I don't even dislike the actual story so much -- Phil Hester managed to write some really cool things after JMS [i]abandoned it after four issues lmfao[/i] -- but it couldn't possibly have come at a worse time, if indeed if ever even [i]needed[/i] to come at all.
It's honestly no wonder that folks like Rucka, de Liz, Morrison, and Thompson have all been tripping over each other to try to reestablish the iconic island origin in everyone's minds, with the iconic supporting cast and iconic rogues' galleries, and that we've gotten, like, four or five iterations of this origin story in the last year or so. The fact is that we've been stuck in various alternate universe Elseworlds versions of Diana's story ever since 2010 -- maybe even before that -- and these writers have been scrambling to course correct a ship that can't sail. Even Geoff Johns, bless his macabre little heart :p, tried his best to fill WW's canon with recognizable, workable elements like Steve, Etta, and Barbara while Azzarello was busy having Orion slap her ass every other issue.
[QUOTE=Joao;2528926]Oh, it has been 30 years since [I]Gods and Mortals[/I] and it didn't age well like [I]Batman: Year One[/I]. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to go back there because it's dated: I don't do it as much as I'd like for the same reason. It was about time we got a retelling. The effect may not be clear right now among so many other versions of the same story, but this will certainly help DC establish that as her definitive origin in the long run.[/QUOTE]
And you don't think this will be dated soon enough?
The problem here is that you compare a stand-alone Batman story, with an WW origins story that's part of a bigger tale. If you wanted a definitive origns then Earth One is still a better bet because it isn't connected to anything, so we dont need to go look for other books to actually get the complete picture.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;2529175]And neither do the Elseworld origin stories that WW has been getting lately.
What do you mean "his 1940s adventures, not his real origins"? What are the "real" origins? Because we got the flashbacks of Krypton exploding, the Kents finding him, early childhood moments, his first arrival in Metropolis, and his first encounters with his supporting cast and villains. Sounds like an origin tale to me. Especially as it was part of a line wide reboot, so Morrison doing what Morrison does is incidental. If he didn't do it, someone else would have.
GL: Secret Origin, well before Flashpoint, that retconned Atrocitus into Hal's origin and set up Blackest Night. A common complaint when that came out was that it replaced Emerald Dawn. And both are still available, just like this and Gods and Mortals will be available at the same time.
Shazam not being a League founder doesn't have much to do with anything (I never said he was?), he still got a new origin when they could have just re-printed his post-Crisis origin and told people to go read that for the basics.[/QUOTE]
So you are just irritated it isn't repeated enough?
What I mean is that Morrisons initial story was like the very oldest Superman stories where he was more of a social justice warrior who'd go rough up dastardly CEO's who were stepping on the little guy. And no I wasn't an origins story because, as you say, everything came in flashbacks whenever Clark was reminded of something... like the Kents when he was selling the farm. The most complete of these was the story of Krypto. As such, the origins was a puzzle we had to put together gradually whenever a new piece was given to us while something else was happening.
As for it being Morrison... no, others wouldn't have done it unless DC told them to... Morrison however does what he does best when people don't try to steer him, and DC knows this and is willing to respect it as one of the few cases.
Ok, so you are reaching back before Flashpoint and thus rendering your argument rather invalid when the book you point to predates the big reboot by several years. Stay with Flashpoint and onwards please.
No, you mention Shazam despite me stating specifically that the 'League Founders' save for Cyborg did not get their origins retold, because of the 5 year shift so DC had an excuse to mostly skip these things, that was part of their reasoning as well if I remember correctly. And I would disagree with people being able to go back to his old origins... because unlike Rucka's retelling of Diana's origins, stuff was actually changed in Shazams.
[QUOTE=brettc1;2529937]It seems to me Ares suffered the same fate as his fellow gods. All of them appear as animals avatars except the War God. Now he has also been reduced to a similar state, making me thing there a lot more to Veronica Cale's dogs than meets the eye. You can actually see "Fear" and "Terror" emerging from under his cloak. So Ares has been kind of discorporated, split off into separate components.
I won't say this issue is perfect by a long shot. Even compared to some of Rucka's other writing it seems lite. The fight with Ares felt entirely too brief - Nicola does amazing art but I didn't appreciate her having to carry that whole confrontation in six panels.
Ironically though I know I have said I had decompression, this issue really needed it. The battle with Ares should probably have been the climax of the issue, and then the next one Diana dealing with the gas plot. As it is it feels incredibly rushed.
But of course, there WAS this :)
[IMG]http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo37/brettc1_photos/Wonder%20Woman%2014%20-%20Page%2020_zpswtzr3yzm.jpg[/IMG]
[SIZE=6]OH YEAH![/SIZE][/QUOTE]
It was funny see Diana flying all over the world and a shirtless steve by her side
I wonder if there is some law the Gods can't show up as theirselves on the world, but only as avatars
[QUOTE=Outside_85;2530145]And you don't think this will be dated soon enough?
The problem here is that you compare a stand-alone Batman story, with an WW origins story that's part of a bigger tale. If you wanted a definitive origns then Earth One is still a better bet because it isn't connected to anything, so we dont need to go look for other books to actually get the complete picture.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think that's the problem. Both [I]Gods and Mortals[/I] and [I]Wonder Woman: Year One[/I] show Diana's first adventure in the world and are part of a bigger story. They are complete story arcs and great reads by themselves. I say it's dated based on art and narration style, that feel old (I'd say older than it is) at first sight. Not the story per se.
Some things get old faster than others. No matter which one will be the case, [I]Wonder Woman: Year One[/I] has a big value for adapting that classic story into a contemporary language that can survive for decades to come. That's good enough, isn't it?
[QUOTE=brettc1;2529937]It seems to me Ares suffered the same fate as his fellow gods. All of them appear as animals avatars except the War God. Now he has also been reduced to a similar state, making me thing there a lot more to Veronica Cale's dogs than meets the eye. You can actually see "Fear" and "Terror" emerging from under his cloak. So Ares has been kind of discorporated, split off into separate components.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you have great eyes!!! So could Ares be the patron of God watch somehow? That opens a lot of possibilities.
[QUOTE=Joao;2530234]I don't think that's the problem. Both [I]Gods and Mortals[/I] and [I]Wonder Woman: Year One[/I] show Diana's first adventure in the world and are part of a bigger story. They are complete story arcs and great reads by themselves. I say it's dated based on art and narration style, that feel old (I'd say older than it is) at first sight. Not the story per se.
Some things get old faster than others. No matter which one will be the case, [I]Wonder Woman: Year One[/I] has a big value for adapting that classic story into a contemporary language that can survive for decades to come. That's good enough, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
Well... thats kinda boiled it down to personal opinion then whenever the story is dated or not.
Will depend on how long it lasts before someone comes along and changes it.
I was re-reading some stuff and I foun this in issue #6:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]43784[/ATTACH]
So probably all the amazons are, indeed, daughters of Ares.
I think he was being patronizing, literally.