-
[QUOTE=Rev9;5082046]That is semantics but it is the exact same thing,a duplicate of a biological body is a clone.I mean on the surface I get what you mean let the duplicate be the vessel or 'sleeve' (altered carbon lingo) of a single consciousness of a mutant, while a clone should be a separate unit of different consciousness.However that in practice is just a quagmire. That's almost like saying the sleeves are a hive mind sequentially and the clones are not.It makes no real sense ultimately unless you want mutants on Krakoa to engage in duplication to create moral dilemmas and existential crises.It only works at telling a deep ethical thought not at surface level funfare[/QUOTE] and what exactly does that have to do with "upcoming xbook art teases"?! Hmm??
-
[QUOTE=Rev9;5082046]That is semantics but it is the exact same thing[/QUOTE]
No it's not.
-
[QUOTE=Wiccan;5082093]No it's not.[/QUOTE]
So duplicate is different from clone? Even if you as you put it have a duplicate with one continuous consciousness meet a clone with a different consciousness on one page. You think you can convince the reader to see a difference when one tells the other 'we may look the same but you're something different'..?
This is a pure hypothetical but even Nightcrawler in X-Men 07 has his head spinning with duplicates now create a Nightcrawler clone and feed him his pre death in SComing nemories only.Does it get any less crazier for 'duplicate' Nightcrawler? We need to get real here
-
[QUOTE=Frobisher;5081237]So if an identical twin died you’d just leave them dead, because you already have one person with that DNA?[/QUOTE]
Well since the memories are different, it’s enough to warrant a second resurrection right?
-
[QUOTE=Rev9;5082108]So duplicate is different from clone? Even if you as you put it have a duplicate with one continuous consciousness meet a clone with a different consciousness on one page. You think you can convince the reader to see a difference when one tells the other 'we may look the same but you're something different'[/QUOTE]
Yes? Do people not realize Madelyne isn't Jean Grey when she shows up? Or Cable and Stryfe? Laura and Gabby?
And I wasn't even talking about whether readers will get confused or not. That's completely besides the point.
-
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5082110]Well since the memories are different, it’s enough to warrant a second resurrection right?[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
Also I constantly keep thinking there's new art teases but there's not.
-
[QUOTE=Wiccan;5082115]Yes? Do people not realize Madelyne isn't Jean Grey when she shows up? Or Cable and Stryfe? Laura and Gabby?
And I wasn't even talking about whether readers will get confused or not. That's completely besides the point.[/QUOTE]
Obviously at a cursory level they are different on page they may have different attire or hairstyles to tell them apart,sometimes they show their powers differently because for example Maddie was brought to life by different means.However the internal justification between them is moot on paper.That is why you always have weird statements like ,'Scott will never love you like he loves me' or something like 'you're a poor imitation of me'. I am not quoting verbatim but the idea is to have fun on the page for the characters showing hubris or contempt or fascination or whatever but the reader who has the panoramic view it's really moot.
Another thing is I don't think Maddie or Stryfe were themselves cloned by Xmen. Unless you have some narcissistic compulsion to clone yourself just coz you're bored or want a village of yourself like Sinister ,Krakoa steers clear of engaging in this.They know Maddie and Stryfe did not choose to be cloned,which dovetails into the reasoning behind Krakoa not wanting to unnecessarily duplicate Krakoans precisely not to create that sort of weirdness of being inconsequential as characters. You rather have one Logan making a point than 3.It serves no long term purpose
-
[QUOTE=Frobisher;5081269]nor are Martin and Gary Kemp a single mutant With two bodies.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that was just a rumour started by Duran Duran during their 1980s rivalry.
-
Thanks for all the insight everyone it's made some things clear and something's not. Like identical twins genetically are clones but they aren't literally since they have the same dna. A duplicate I know understand is a direct replication but that I don't see how it can be possible. If the person is brought back with memories on file but the real one was locked away for let's say a year wasn't the old one still obtaining new memories even as the "duplicate" was being born with old memories.
Then in fallen angel I could be wrong but for some reason I remember Laura mentioning feeling a certain way because she was a clone but she's not a clone because taylor showed she had a mother so her dna isn't 100% logan which would make him her real father but Gabby is her clone. I just think the whole clone duplicate memories things need to be addressed because with Maddie running around and other stuff it's just confusing overall now. Then you have the cuckoo's I don't think they are clones because someone else dna was used with Emma but I see how they can be seen as clones of each other since it wasn't a natural birth and all their x-genea seem the same. There is no power variance between them but I guess that could also be expected of identical twins. Just like if identical twins have children their children are considered half siblings genetically because of the exact same dna they get from the identical twin parents.
-
[QUOTE=jwatson;5082145]Thanks for all the insight everyone it's made some things clear and something's not. Like identical twins genetically are clones but they aren't literally since they have the same dna. A duplicate I know understand is a direct replication but that I don't see how it can be possible. If the person is brought back with memories on file but the real one was locked away for let's say a year wasn't the old one still obtaining new memories even as the "duplicate" was being born with old memories.
Then in fallen angel I could be wrong but for some reason I remember Laura mentioning feeling a certain way because she was a clone but she's not a clone because taylor showed she had a mother so her dna isn't 100% logan which would make him her real father but Gabby is her clone. I just think the whole clone duplicate memories things need to be addressed because with Maddie running around and other stuff it's just confusing overall now. Then you have the cuckoo's I don't think they are clones because someone else dna was used with Emma but I see how they can be seen as clones of each other since it wasn't a natural birth and all their x-genea seem the same. There is no power variance between them but I guess that could also be expected of identical twins. Just like if identical twins have children their children are considered half siblings genetically because of the exact same dna they get from the identical twin parents.[/QUOTE]
I think you are spot on ,if there are no guidelines developed it will lose meaning.I think Laura is Logan's daughter, so she is no clone, The cookoos I think are identical quintuplets but I don't know if they had a surrogate carrying Emma's eggs or were incubated to full growth like Krakoa now does.I won't comment on that coz I never read their backstory.
Though Krakoa's process as you mention locking away the original underscores my point ,if for example hypothetically they find a way to clone Kitty ,now is the original Kitty if resurrected another way entitled to the memories she missed while her clone lived in the interim? In a way yes and in a way no.It is an ethical problem of major proportions.We the readers
may pick one of the possibilities but just because we picked that she is entitled ,does not mean for example if she had her clone engaging in a mission with Colossus where out of jealousy she had Domino die out of spite that the real Kitty should go and apologize to Domino's new clone a) because she didn't do it herself b) because new Domino is not the old Domino who died technically
-
[QUOTE=jwatson;5082145]Thanks for all the insight everyone it's made some things clear and something's not. Like identical twins genetically are clones but they aren't literally since they have the same dna. A duplicate I know understand is a direct replication but that I don't see how it can be possible. If the person is brought back with memories on file but the real one was locked away for let's say a year wasn't the old one still obtaining new memories even as the "duplicate" was being born with old memories.
[B]Then in fallen angel I could be wrong but for some reason I remember Laura mentioning feeling a certain way because she was a clone but she's not a clone because taylor showed she had a mother so her dna isn't 100% logan which would make him her real father but Gabby is her clone.[/B] I just think the whole clone duplicate memories things need to be addressed because with Maddie running around and other stuff it's just confusing overall now. Then you have the cuckoo's I don't think they are clones because someone else dna was used with Emma but I see how they can be seen as clones of each other since it wasn't a natural birth and all their x-genea seem the same. There is no power variance between them but I guess that could also be expected of identical twins. Just like if identical twins have children their children are considered half siblings genetically because of the exact same dna they get from the identical twin parents.[/QUOTE]
No, still a clone, just one that has some of her mothers (Mother here defined as surrogate/scientist who made her.) DNA for some unexplained reason. (Which is a pretty unmoored, completely at odds with her mini series origin story retcon, which I'm not sure is going to stick.)
-
[QUOTE=jwatson;5082145]Thanks for all the insight everyone it's made some things clear and something's not. Like identical twins genetically are clones but they aren't literally since they have the same dna. A duplicate I know understand is a direct replication but that I don't see how it can be possible. If the person is brought back with memories on file but the real one was locked away for let's say a year wasn't the old one still obtaining new memories even as the "duplicate" was being born with old memories.
Then in fallen angel I could be wrong but for some reason I remember Laura mentioning feeling a certain way because she was a clone but she's not a clone because taylor showed she had a mother so her dna isn't 100% logan which would make him her real father but Gabby is her clone. I just think the whole clone duplicate memories things need to be addressed because with Maddie running around and other stuff it's just confusing overall now. Then you have the cuckoo's I don't think they are clones because someone else dna was used with Emma but I see how they can be seen as clones of each other since it wasn't a natural birth and all their x-genea seem the same. There is no power variance between them but I guess that could also be expected of identical twins. Just like if identical twins have children their children are considered half siblings genetically because of the exact same dna they get from the identical twin parents.[/QUOTE]
Maddie confuses things bc she was created as a Jean clone and even had some of her memories (although very incomplete). When she died, Jean absorbed her memories and persona, essentially merging the three (along with the Phoenix clone) into one being. Jean after Inferno was an amagalm of all 3. Thats why she is redundant and one reason why they wouldnt resurrect her bc those memories and experiences already exist with Jean. Honestly in light of the whole resurrecting process we know have, what happened with Maddie after Jean "died" seemed like a prototype for what we would later get. She seemingly died and 2 clones replaced her. She returned and that was resolved when those memories were passed on to her
The Maddie that existed in the 90s wasnt even the original. She was some psychic ghost that X-man created. The current version is that ghost having finally found a body to inhabit. Its a human that was genetically altered to look like Maddie. Her mutant status itself is questionable bc of that
[QUOTE=Nazrel;5082169]No, still a clone, just one that has some of her mothers (Mother here defined as surrogate/scientist who made her.) DNA for some unexplained reason. (Which is a pretty unmoored, completely at odds with her mini series origin story retcon, which I'm not sure is going to stick.)[/QUOTE]
Her origin mini specified that she's not really a clone. Marvel only uses that word for marketing and to simplify her origin
-
[QUOTE=Havok83;5082192]Her origin mini specified that she's not really a clone. Marvel only uses that word for marketing and to simplify her origin[/QUOTE]
Okay Genetic twin, whatever, almost the same thing; save duplicating the existing X chromosome. (Hence why she is typically called a clone.)
-
[QUOTE=Nazrel;5082204]Okay Genetic twin, whatever, almost the same thing.[/QUOTE]
some would say in-vitro fertilization isn't natural (i'm not one of them) The baby was created but still carried to term naturally. Is that a form of cloning?
-
Still no art teases...?
Okies...I'll check back in a couple of days, after you all work out whatever that is.