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[QUOTE=BigLbo;189283]
i'll never understand people like this, what does TNA going out of business do for you?? and what makes you think a promotion run by slapnuts will be any better??
[/QUOTE]
I'd be thrilled if they go out of business so that talent won't go to that wasteland that is TNA. Take AJ Styles, I'm loving how he's being used in NJPW. Or how about Alex Shelley? I'm so sick of some of my favorite wrestlers like the American Wolves going to TNA to have their career ruined. Look, I've been a staunch supporter of TNA from the very beginning. I've watched their very first weekly $10 ppv shows from the first show on and there were many years where I thought TNA was great. The last few years it's been consistently going downhill to what is now a lifeless corpse. There's absolutely no point in supporting TNA anymore, the product is a slap in the face of wrestling fans. If they go away, someone else will take their place. And yes a promotion run by a bunch of slapnuts WILL be better than TNA, hell a promotion run by the janitor would be better. I'll go as far to say that TNA Impact is the worst television program on television today in any genre. Horrible, horrible TV.
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[QUOTE=Groo Odyssey;190065]I'd be thrilled if they go out of business so that talent won't go to that wasteland that is TNA. Take AJ Styles, I'm loving how he's being used in NJPW. Or how about Alex Shelley? I'm so sick of some of my favorite wrestlers like the American Wolves going to TNA to have their career ruined. Look, I've been a staunch supporter of TNA from the very beginning. I've watched their very first weekly $10 ppv shows from the first show on and there were many years where I thought TNA was great. The last few years it's been consistently going downhill to what is now a lifeless corpse. There's absolutely no point in supporting TNA anymore, the product is a slap in the face of wrestling fans. If they go away, someone else will take their place. And yes a promotion run by a bunch of slapnuts WILL be better than TNA, hell a promotion run by the janitor would be better. I'll go as far to say that TNA Impact is the worst television program on television today in any genre. Horrible, horrible TV.[/QUOTE]
so you want TNA to shut down so your favorite(and other) wrestlers have less options. these are grown men who can weigh their options and decide for themselves if they want to work for TNA or not. nobody is forcing them to work there and i think they're qualified to make the call on whether working there will ruin their careers. and assuming that because they go out of business somebody else will take their place is just naive, and that another promotion run by jarrett will be better is even more so.
let's look back to 2011 slammiversary
tag title:Gun Money (James Storm and Alex Shelley) (c) vs The British Invasion (Douglas Williams and Magnus)
Matt Morgan vs Scott Steiner
X-division title Abyss (c) vs Kazarian and Brian Kendrick
Crimson vs Samoa Joe
Knock Outs title:Mickie James vs Angelina Love (with Winter)
Bully Ray vs A.J. Styles
TNA World Heavyweight Championship: Mr. Anderson vs Sting
#1 contender match: Kurt Angle defeated Jeff Jarrett
starting from the bottom of the card you have an absolute shitbomb with steiner vs morgan, solid enough makeshift tag team match, then you have abyss with the X division title, then joe vs everybodies favorite crimson, pretty standard KO title match but i think angelina was a zombie slave at that point?? bully vs AJ was fine, then for some reason the world title match isn't the main event and also sucks because it's mr butthole vs sting, then slapnuts is in the main event in 2011 against angle for the #1 contender position. again SLAPNUTS IN THE MAIN EVENT IN 2011.
now slammiversary 2014
winner goes onto main event title match: Austin Aries vs. Kenny King
James Storm vs. Mr. Anderson
Willow vs. Magnus
winner goes onto main event title match:Bobby Lashley vs. Samoa Joe
Knockouts Championship: Angelina Love vs. Gail Kim
Ladder Match For The X Division Championship: Manik vs. Tigre Uno vs. Crazzy Steve vs. Sanada vs. Eddie Edwards vs. Davey Richards
TEXAS DEATH MATCH: EC3 vs. Bully Ray
TNA World Heavyweight Championship Steel Cage 3 Way Match: EY(c) vs winner of aries vs king vs winner of lashley vs joe
you're really telling me this card looks worse than 2011?? i think the 2014 card gets the edge simply for what is NOT on the card. like steiner vs morgan, abyss with the X-division title, mr butthole vs sting, and slapnuts in the main event.
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No I want TNA to go out of business because they've wasted and ruined the careers of some of the most talented workers of the last decade or so. They criminally under pay all of them except the WWE rejects. They've become near tyrants with the way they manage talent. Atleast it makes sense when WWE does it because they pay you small fortune and being in their show gives you more exposure and increases your value in case you leave.
I want them to go out of business because their storylines generally suck and make no sense to the point where it's borderline insulting to watch. I want them to go out of business because they are a bad pro wrestling company that loses money on nearly every venture and they are only still alive because they have a money mark funding his daughters vanity project. I want them to go out of business because nearly every major independent promotion is leaps and bounds ahead of then and could benefit by getting a shot at the tv deal TNA hasn't deserved for years. Because their own incompetence has resulted in a spot that prevents much more deserving companies from having a chance at competing on a national scale, while also ensuring that they can't because they blew too many opportunities.
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[QUOTE=lancerman;192610][B]No I want TNA to go out of business because they've wasted and ruined the careers of some of the most talented workers of the last decade or so. They criminally under pay all of them except the WWE rejects.[/B] They've become near tyrants with the way they manage talent. Atleast it makes sense when WWE does it because they pay you small fortune and being in their show gives you more exposure and increases your value in case you leave.[/QUOTE]
honestly where would those talents be if not for TNA?? most of them you never heard of before TNA or they'd be working the same indys they were before they went to TNA. what they get paid shouldn't even concern us, if the pay was that bad they wouldn't take it, it's their choice and they don't give a shit what we get paid at our jobs.
[QUOTE]I want them to go out of business because their storylines generally suck and make no sense to the point where it's borderline insulting to watch.[/QUOTE]
couldn't you just stop watching and get the same result instead of wishing for people to be out of work and the people who do watch to lose their thursday night viewing??
[QUOTE]I want them to go out of business because they are a bad pro wrestling company that loses money on nearly every venture and they are only still alive because they have a money mark funding his daughters vanity project. I want them to go out of business because[B] nearly every major independent promotion is leaps and bounds ahead of then and could benefit by getting a shot at the tv deal TNA hasn't deserved for years.[/B] Because their own incompetence has resulted in a spot that prevents much more deserving companies from having a chance at competing on a national scale, while also ensuring that they can't because they blew too many opportunities.[/QUOTE]
lancer, i enjoy reading your posts and feel you drop knowledge a lot of the time, but that's just not true. TNA going down would do nothing to increase the chance of CZW, EVOLVE, DGUSA, PWG, chikara and every other indys chances of getting on spike tv. did i leave any major indy out??
no company has a chance at competing on a national scale(including TNA obviously), so get over that, and if there was a company with a chance TNA on spike or not wouldn't be able to do anything to stop them.
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Those talents could have went to WWE (guys like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles were a shoe in there in there early careers, now WWE won't touch them because of their association with TNA), ROH or Dragongate where they'd be free to tour the independents as mega stars and build up a brand around themselves, New Japan where they'd atleast be somewhere respectable and could be making money. I stand by my statement, TNA absolutely ruined Samoa Joe's career. Guy could of been a star somewhere else. The fact that they had Knockouts having to work at sunglass huts to make enough money to live off speaks volumes about how they treat their talent. And those reports where in a time period when the Knockouts were getting the best ratings on the show.
That is the part the generally bothers me the most about TNA. Because it really sucks to see talented individuals not make the most of their talents because of ineptitude.
As far as stop watching TNA, I already did that. I can point the exact moment where I said I was done. Victory Road 2011. Sometimes you have a really bad experience with a business and you come to conclusion that you can never trust them with your money again. That was it for me. One of the most atrocious shows I've ever seen, and literally every bad decision that could have been made was made. The fact that they put Hardy out there all messed again just speaks volumes about their priorities. The fact that the rest of the show was a joke for the most part didn't help matters. Since then I've caught an impact here or there and it just reaffirmed my beliefs on that.
From all indications Spike wants a pro wrestling show on their network. They always have. If TNA goes, then that spot opens up again, and they are eventually going to look to fill it. Preferably with an already established indy promotion that has a proven success rate. So the top tier indys would have a generally good spot. Probably either ROH or DGUSA. I personally would love to watch wrestling on Thursdays, unfortunately the show that's on is just based on quality lower than nearly ever pro wrestling promotion I've ever watched. Even WCW towards the end wasn't this consistently bad.
As far as nobody having the chance to compete. I don't buy it. WWE is huge, but they aren't above reproach. In presentation right now in 2014 they are better than they ever have been, and probably better than any promotion in the world. But they have some key weaknesses in business metrics that I feel can be exploited. TNA doesn't have a chance because they are killing themselves with a sword they have been crafting since 2006. But a company that is generally considered good, that offers something different could build up a fanbase and with good word of mouth position it strongly. Even if they never compete with WWE it's still better for wrestling fans.
Right now the climate is more advantageous than ever for competition now. WWE just gutted their ppv market. So now fans don't have to choose what ppv's to watch anymore. If you own the network and an ROH ppv is on the same night, guess what, you still have the money to own the network and buy the ppv, and WWE is going to leave that ppv in the library so you can watch it literally an hour after the other show. Same thing for all of WWE's best content. It's not on the airwaves anymore. Just smackdown which is skippable. And a bloated 3 hour Raw. That's it. That's all a promotion would have to compete with.
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LOL at BigLbo defending the merits of TNA's pitiful existence. I bet he's one of the 3000 or so people left that are still buying TNA ppvs every month. I can write a whole book on all the idiotic things TNA has done throughout it's history, ie hiring the exact team that killed WCW, once the biggest and most successful wrestling organization in the world and within a few years went completely out of business. This filth and fecal matter that is TNA needs be washed away and be gone from history forever. Should be declared a national holiday the day that TNA is finally put out of it's misery.
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The problem I have with TNA is how piss poor it manages the wrestlers that work for the company and how TNA refuses to do anything to improve upon it.. Dixie and Co would much rather leave the company and it's wrestlers in the gutter that it's in than sell it to someone that actually knows about the wrestling business to make it grow. Hell I dare say TNA manages their wrestlers even worse than the E. TNA doesn't give a crap about establishing new people. All TNA cares about is "Ooo look we have another ex-WWE guy that we can push to the moon!"
I get more enjoyment from NXT than Impact as of late.
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I was at the NXT tapings on Thursday. I had the time of my life. They filmed 4 shows in 3 1/2 hours with no intermission and the people excited all night.
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[QUOTE=Legato;193475]The problem I have with TNA is how piss poor it manages the wrestlers that work for the company and how TNA refuses to do anything to improve upon it.. Dixie and Co would much rather leave the company and it's wrestlers in the gutter that it's in than sell it to someone that actually knows about the wrestling business to make it grow. Hell I dare say TNA manages their wrestlers even worse than the E. TNA doesn't give a crap about establishing new people. All TNA cares about is "Ooo look we have another ex-WWE guy that we can push to the moon!"
I get more enjoyment from NXT than Impact as of late.[/QUOTE]
When dixies dad met with Bob Carter it was him who said dixie was apart of the deal, so it's Dixie's dads fault.
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Oh and before anyone confuses what I just said as wanting TNA to go out of business I just want to point out I'd much rather TNA have someone that has a clue on how to run a wrestling business.
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[QUOTE=lancerman;193042][B]Those talents could have went to WWE (guys like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles were a shoe in there in there early careers, now WWE won't touch them because of their association with TNA), ROH or Dragongate where they'd be free to tour the independents as mega stars and build up a brand around themselves, New Japan where they'd atleast be somewhere respectable and could be making money. I stand by my statement, TNA absolutely ruined Samoa Joe's career. Guy could of been a star somewhere else.[/B] The fact that they had Knockouts having to work at sunglass huts to make enough money to live off speaks volumes about how they treat their talent. And those reports where in a time period when the Knockouts were getting the best ratings on the show.[/QUOTE]
1st, "shoe in"?? early in his career AJ was under WCW contract when WWE bought them out, they didn't pick up AJ's contract. a few years later AJ got offered a development deal after dark matches, he turned it down because he didn't want to move, none of that is TNA's fault. and lets be honest, without AJ's TNA run do you think he'd be holding the IWGP HW title right now?? i'll tell you this much, before TNA when AJ went to japan he was working zero-one.
now joe, had a dark match for WWE early in his career, nothing came of it(so much for a shoe in), got a look from NJPW at the L.A dojo show before going toTNA, they didn't want him. he also went to work in zero-one in japan, then to TNA and even when TNA was working with NJPW they still didn't book him. also before going to TNA he worked with kenta kobashi in 2005 for RoH, never got booked by NOAH. now after being in TNA a few years he gets booked by NOAH to pin a fukn legend misawa in a tag match and then a GHC title match with misawa. he get's a poor reaction from fans. in 2012 while still with TNA he gets booked in NOAH again and wins the GHC tag titles with magnus.
i'm not seeing how they ruined his career or where he was going to be a star. i guess i will concede that TNA prevented joe from being an indy mega star for the last 10yrs.
[QUOTE]That is the part the generally bothers me the most about TNA. [B]Because it really sucks to see talented individuals not make the most of their talents because of ineptitude.[/B][/QUOTE]
that's not TNA xclusive
[QUOTE]As far as stop watching TNA, I already did that. I can point the exact moment where I said I was done. Victory Road 2011. Sometimes you have a really bad experience with a business and you come to conclusion that you can never trust them with your money again. That was it for me. One of the most atrocious shows I've ever seen, and literally every bad decision that could have been made was made. The fact that they put Hardy out there all messed again just speaks volumes about their priorities. The fact that the rest of the show was a joke for the most part didn't help matters. Since then I've caught an impact here or there and it just reaffirmed my beliefs on that.[/QUOTE]
that's cool but if you think TNA going out of business means suddenly all the talent is going to be absorbed into WWE & NJPW i think you're way off. all that really happens is guys have one less place to work/get noticed.
again before working for TNA AJ styles, low ki, alex shelly, lance archer, duke swallows, brian kendrick, matt jackson,and nick jackson while in japan worked indys, after working in TNA they all got booked by NJPW. i'm not saying TNA is the reason NJPW booked those guys but obviously TNA didn't ruin their careers.
[QUOTE]From all indications Spike wants a pro wrestling show on their network. They always have. If TNA goes, then that spot opens up again, and they are eventually going to look to fill it. [B]Preferably with an already established indy promotion that has a proven success rate. So the top tier indys would have a generally good spot. Probably either ROH or DGUSA.[/B] I personally would love to watch wrestling on Thursdays, unfortunately the show that's on is just based on quality lower than nearly ever pro wrestling promotion I've ever watched. [B]Even WCW towards the end wasn't this consistently bad. [/B][/QUOTE]
you must not watch DGUSA or RoH if you believe that, or it's just wishful thinking.
lancer, i just got done watching a years worth of WCW nitro from 1999 and no, it's not better than TNA right now even though they had way more talent, great talent at that.
[QUOTE]As far as nobody having the chance to compete. I don't buy it. WWE is huge, but they aren't above reproach. In presentation right now in 2014 they are better than they ever have been, and probably better than any promotion in the world. But they have some key weaknesses in business metrics that I feel can be exploited. TNA doesn't have a chance because they are killing themselves with a sword they have been crafting since 2006. But a company that is generally considered good, that offers something different could build up a fanbase and with good word of mouth position it strongly. Even if they never compete with WWE it's still better for wrestling fans.
Right now the climate is more advantageous than ever for competition now. WWE just gutted their ppv market. So now fans don't have to choose what ppv's to watch anymore. If you own the network and an ROH ppv is on the same night, guess what, you still have the money to own the network and buy the ppv, and WWE is going to leave that ppv in the library so you can watch it literally an hour after the other show. Same thing for all of WWE's best content. It's not on the airwaves anymore. Just smackdown which is skippable. And a bloated 3 hour Raw. That's it. That's all a promotion would have to compete with.[/QUOTE]
i love the optimism and agree in some ways but my stance holds true none the less. there is NOBODY who can compete on a national scale. that's not saying nobody ever could, it's saying there is nobody that could now, if not please enlighten me .
[QUOTE=Groo Odyssey;193438][B]LOL at BigLbo defending the merits of TNA's pitiful existence. I bet he's one of the 3000 or so people left that are still buying TNA ppvs every month.[/B] I can write a whole book on all the idiotic things TNA has done throughout it's history, ie hiring the exact team that killed WCW, once the biggest and most successful wrestling organization in the world and within a few years went completely out of business. This filth and fecal matter that is TNA needs be washed away and be gone from history forever. Should be declared a national holiday the day that TNA is finally put out of it's misery.[/QUOTE]
so what if i am(they don't actually have PPV every month btw)?? you're one of the people who was buying those most often shitty weekly PPV's, so what does that say about you??
i don't have to defend TNA's xistence because i don't work for them, i'm defending my opinion about what happens when they go away and if they are worse now than they ever have been.
TNA is the same it's always been, whether hogan was there or slapnuts or russo or whoever, it can go from horrible to good week to week but they've never been able to be consistent in quality for a substantial amount of time.
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[QUOTE=BigLbo;195074]
so what if i am(they don't actually have PPV every month btw)?? you're one of the people who was buying those most often shitty weekly PPV's, so what does that say about you??
i don't have to defend TNA's xistence because i don't work for them, i'm defending my opinion about what happens when they go away and if they are worse now than they ever have been.
TNA is the same it's always been, whether hogan was there or slapnuts or russo or whoever, it can go from horrible to good week to week but they've never been able to be consistent in quality for a substantial amount of time.[/QUOTE]
heheh I knew it, knew you were still buying TNA ppvs. TNA don't have monthly ppvs anymore because their booking is so abysmal that they have managed to completely kill their ppv business. Every time they put out a ppv now they losing money hand over foot due to their own incompetence. I laugh my ass off every times Dixie defends cutting down their ppv shows by saying that the PPV business is a dying business. What a load of crap, they're being run by a bunch of buffoons who don't have a clue. Take Bellator for example who just topped 100K buys for a company that doesn't even have half of TNA's weekly viewers. You put out a compelling program and people will buy the ppv.
Those early weekly TNA ppvs were completely different than what the product is today. Eh, they weren't so bad. I got to see a very young AJ Styles and guys like James Storm and Chris Harris of America's Most Wanted breaking in. It was more focus on wrestling and actual T&A back then (thank you Lollipop), I kinda liked it. I might be going out on a limb here but I would say a young AJ Styles>>>>>>Eric Young. That's all I got to say about that.
TNA needs to go away forever. They're making a mockery of the industry.
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[QUOTE=Groo Odyssey;196028]heheh I knew it, knew you were still buying TNA ppvs. TNA don't have monthly ppvs anymore because their booking is so abysmal that they have managed to completely kill their ppv business. Every time they put out a ppv now they losing money hand over foot due to their own incompetence. I laugh my ass off every times Dixie defends cutting down their ppv shows by saying that the PPV business is a dying business. What a load of crap, they're being run by a bunch of buffoons who don't have a clue. Take Bellator for example who just topped 100K buys for a company that doesn't even have half of TNA's weekly viewers. You put out a compelling program and people will buy the ppv.
Those early weekly TNA ppvs were completely different than what the product is today. Eh, they weren't so bad. I got to see a very young AJ Styles and guys like James Storm and Chris Harris of America's Most Wanted breaking in. It was more focus on wrestling and actual T&A back then (thank you Lollipop), I kinda liked it. [B]I might be going out on a limb here but I would say a young AJ Styles>>>>>>Eric Young[/B]. That's all I got to say about that.
TNA needs to go away forever. They're making a mockery of the industry.[/QUOTE]
I would say you aren't going on a limb. As much as people mock AJ for not being a real draw he didn't have people tuning out as much as Eric Young. When your last quarter hour of your show is the lowest rated segment on the show every week that tells me nobody but a handful of people give a damn about Eric Young. The guy obviously should not be champion no offense to him. Not everybody is meant to be world champion. Most people aren't meant to be world champion.
I also always love the argument of "Oh he's been there for 10 years he deserves it!" no you deserve the belt when you have proven you can carry the company but I guess in TNA's case they don't have a guy who can carry the company.
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[QUOTE=marvell2k;196211][B]I would say you aren't going on a limb.[/B] As much as people mock AJ for not being a real draw he didn't have people tuning out as much as Eric Young. When your last quarter hour of your show is the lowest rated segment on the show every week that tells me nobody but a handful of people give a damn about Eric Young. The guy obviously should not be champion no offense to him. Not everybody is meant to be world champion. Most people aren't meant to be world champion.
I also always love the argument of "Oh he's been there for 10 years he deserves it!" no you deserve the belt when you have proven you can carry the company but I guess in TNA's case they don't have a guy who can carry the company.[/QUOTE]
I was trying to be facetious :) Young AJ Styles was truly phenomenal.
Nothing against Eric Young but they literally put the TNA title on him just because WWE put their title on Daniel Bryan. So TNA, you know have to copy the WWE and put their title on their underdog EY too, despite EY never proven that he can draw or can attract the viewers at home. No surprise to see their "main event" segment in their last quarter hour is consistently the lowest quarter hour of the show every week. Yet they'll refuse to change, terrible terrible promotion. Even a company run by [B][SIZE=2]SLAPNUTS[/SIZE][/B] would realize there's a problem there.
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[QUOTE=Groo Odyssey;196264]I was trying to be facetious :) Young AJ Styles was truly phenomenal.
Nothing against Eric Young but they literally put the TNA title on him just because WWE put their title on Daniel Bryan. So TNA, you know have to copy the WWE and put their title on their underdog EY too, despite EY never proven that he can draw or can attract the viewers at home. No surprise to see their "main event" segment in their last quarter hour is consistently the lowest quarter hour of the show every week. Yet they'll refuse to change, terrible terrible promotion. Even a company run by [B][SIZE=2]SLAPNUTS[/SIZE][/B] would realize there's a problem there.[/QUOTE]
And that is the bulk of TNA's problem. They spend so much time trying to copy off of the E that they don't even bother in trying to establish their own identity. Companies like ROH are still around and still have a good fanbase because ROH at least tries to establish itself as it's own individual. Not trying to be WWE Lite. TNA, when it first started out, was a nice alternative that a wrestling fan could get behind then somewhere along the line they lost their way and ended up becoming a poor mans WWE/WCW