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    The problem here being using Cheetah as a marker...

    The problem here being using Cheetah as a marker for anything since she's way faster than WW too at this point
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    Idk about that. She's certainly slower than...

    Idk about that. She's certainly slower than Superman in combat speed, and she explicitly said Karen was as fast, just not as trained. By feats, I expect the difference is minimal



    I'm guessing...
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    Morg could be a factor if he has the Waters of...

    Morg could be a factor if he has the Waters of Life
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    The implication being WW is too fast to be even...

    The implication being WW is too fast to be even seen by either since she tangles with Cheetah?

    Also, the art seems to indicate the "now I'm faster than Wally" Cheetah era
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    I'd imagine that's a pretty low bar to set. Six...

    I'd imagine that's a pretty low bar to set. Six feet under what's needed
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    Not necessarily. Aside from the fact that rules...

    Not necessarily. Aside from the fact that rules here on this board default to the arena, why exactly would he need to go to space to read a mind, regenerate, trap in a board or use a black hole? He...
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    Whoa are you saying Superman beats surfer? In...

    Whoa are you saying Superman beats surfer?

    In fact, what "advantage"?
    And surfer could just hit Superman with red sunlight
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    Welp I think we can lay the controversy to rest...

    Welp I think we can lay the controversy to rest once and for all. So basically when Braniac was brain dead and restrained on New Genesis, on earth Superman's corpse was found still in the coffin he...
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    The scan is not from Superman 175. The scan is...

    The scan is not from Superman 175. The scan is from Hunter Prey. Your whole argument to this point was

    That DD was sentient so Jonn got surprised. But DD was already coherent enough to say...
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    because his own mind didn't know it? Because he...

    because his own mind didn't know it? Because he prepped to keep his own mind unaware?

    https://m.imgur.com/pM6MRb5


    Meanwhile she also said only YOU can free Galactus....
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    It's not but then what would a telepath with few...

    It's not but then what would a telepath with few appearances have to do to be considered better than Jonn? Folks like Despero and Starro have nothing but comparative showings

    To put it another...
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    Didn't you make the point yourself about Thanos'...

    Didn't you make the point yourself about Thanos' TP stuff being totally something we should consider separately and generously given minimal appearances but now it gets grouped together with some...
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    Obviously not true since Galactus wrecked him....

    Obviously not true since Galactus wrecked him. Moondragon and co kept him down in Thanos imperative and Moondragon read his mind while weakened in Annihilation



    With the specific caveat that...
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    Then how is "Thanos laughs off Moondragon" even...

    Then how is "Thanos laughs off Moondragon" even remotely justified. Thanos after all has done nothing to indicate he should be literally laughing/sighing off Moondragon's psychic attack other than...
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    But unlike the Thanos /Galactus thing a) Braniac...

    But unlike the Thanos /Galactus thing a) Braniac specifically got a power boost between showings and b) still has mind control across interstellar distances feats while weakened for that showing not...
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    I wouldn't say "could not have done" although MMH...

    I wouldn't say "could not have done" although MMH had trouble with individual characters that Braniac disposed off rather more easily like Flash, Metron, GL etc

    Braniac was also mucking around...
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    But it shows what he can achieve, enhanced by...

    But it shows what he can achieve, enhanced by technology. So a better version of him,explicitly more powerful, beating MMH isn't really out there, despite the loss of the earlier version to Maxima,...
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    Except even after getting that new body he just...

    Except even after getting that new body he just kept getting more powerful, even starting to control people while in a coma
    https://i.postimg.cc/DZTCXVNY/IMG-20190710-000125.jpg


    Yes but as...
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    About as many as Braniac did probably cuz I sure...

    About as many as Braniac did probably cuz I sure as heck don't remember 120 appearances for that guy, it probably includes all guidebooks and one panel cameos and such. But the ratio of appearances...
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    Umm.... no. All of post crisis Braniac's...

    Umm.... no. All of post crisis Braniac's extremely varied appearances taken together, from circus freak to a collector of worlds numbers about 120. Thanos is currently at 400 + , having been at...
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    I understand perfectly. Your arguments boil down...

    I understand perfectly. Your arguments boil down to "Can DD's feats as a sentient clone be transferred to a mindless HP DD". Well yes arguably, given HP literally has this
    ...
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    Yeah nu52, complete with the collar suit and...

    Yeah nu52, complete with the collar suit and Morrison jeans era is explicitly canon now

    I was more pointing out DC's current take to resolve continuity issues seems to be "everything is canon,...
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    The thing with Braniac is that his powers change...

    The thing with Braniac is that his powers change with every body. So the Braniac in DD's body was more powerful than J'onn and actually come to think of it even the earlier Braniac was probably more...
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    He walked (flew) off an exploding planet without...

    He walked (flew) off an exploding planet without a scratch



    Technically, by the latest official take on things Superman is the same since 1939,all feats count. It's the universe that's...
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    And I'm saying DD's resistance allowed to him to...

    And I'm saying DD's resistance allowed to him to stop being dropped by punches + TP in the first place, to give him that pause.


    So cool, we're agreed on the basics just not on the details. And...
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