Generations: The Thunder - REVIEW and SPOILERS

[Prof. Warren]

I think the fandom would be much happier if comics that didn't sell well would get cancelled making room for characters that more people are willing to spend money on.

That is what happens. All the time.

The problem is that fans believe they know what books are really selling and what is or isn't profitable for publishers and then they get irate when their armchair sales analysis doesn't correspond to the real world.

[CrimsonEchidna]

I wish that we didn't know the numbers for anything. I think one of the worst things to ever happen to fandom has been the obsession with what's selling and what isn't and who's #1 and which books are rising or falling and so on. How nice would it be to just talk about the actual comics and not analyze sales? Especially when the numbers that people are talking about are never the whole picture but yet that doesn't stop fans from acting as though they can speak with complete authority on the performance of every book in the marketplace.

I think fandom would be a much better, much healthier place if it didn't spend so much time obsessed with the horse race aspect of comics and just talked about what they liked, with no knowledge of how books were doing sales wise.

And it be one thing if people were looking at numbers out of concern for a book they really like, but 9 times out of 10 the only time I ever see sales brought up is when people are trying to use it as validation for why "_____" should be cancelled.

[Timmyb52]

All their books have performed better Scarlet Spider.

If you're going to insist that Marvel needs to cancel their books because of poor sales, then you should do the same for Scarlet Spider as it has performed worse.

If Marvel shouldn't prioritize the audience of those books, they shouldn't bother at all with audience for Scarlet Spider.

All the books you listed are still doing better than Scarlet Spider, even though they are several more issues in.

This is a pattern I've seen among people that want legacy characters gone and want Marvel to "fix" their line up. The books they cite as Marvel doing things right, tend to sell worse than the books they accuse of ruining Marvel.

Scarlet Spider will still be around for Legacy....those other diversity characters won't be in those books you cite for much longer since they are only occupying the original heroes titles.Scarlet Spider could get cancelled....but since its hanging around for Legacy and is above the 20,000 cancellation mark I think it is safe for now from that happening. Without those characters occupying a classic heroes title or mantle they would not sell in the numbers you see...the numbers those characters have by occupying those classic heroes title is artificial! Die hard Thor,Iron Man and Hulk fans are IMO only buying the current books out of habit and not for any dedication to the new card board cut outs. Those fans are buying the titles in the hopes that the original heroes will soon be brought back to them...which with Legacy they are.
Marvel was lazy in their approach to these diversity card board cut outs of the classic ones instead of creating new diversity heroes with their own titles! It was lazy and uncreative. Marvel knew these card board cut outs would not be accepted or bought by fans so they tried to artificially boost their popularity and acceptance by injecting them into the roles of the classic heroes...and if it had worked like Marvel wanted they would have permanently replaced the originals! It has failed...and soon the classic heroes will have their books back and very few will be interested in buying an Iron Heart,Jane Thor or Amadeus Cho book IMO.
Now....could I be wrong about this? It's possible I admit...but from the numbers and reactions I have been seeing these past couple of years I find it highly unlikely.

[Timmyb52]

The thing about digital sales is that while they makes up a small portion of overall comic sales, there are some titles that perform exceptionally well digitally.

Ms. Marvel does better digitally than it does in print. Saga also beats out every other comic on the digital font, outperforming books that trounce it in the direct market. With Rebirth, the two Superman flagship books have also become digital hits.

If a book is charting better than Ms Marvel on Comixology, then it's a guaranteed big seller on the digital font.

Again...is this 50,100,1,000 or 5,000 digital copies? If digital makes up only 10 percents of the market then what percentage of those make up Ms.Marvel? What is Ms.Marvel selling digitally as a whole in real numbers? Is a big seller on the digital front 50,100,1,000 or 5,000 copies? What kind of numbers does it take for a digital comic to hit the top or the # 1 spot?
Without these numbers to see and analyze then it is useless to cite digital numbers as evidence of real success for any title IMO.

[Timmyb52]

Ms. Marvel sold more digitally than in print with its first issue, after print sales for issue #1 had surpassed 70k. Several issues, when the book was several issues in and averaging 40k, it was reported that it was still doing better digitally than in print.

Either late last year, or early this year, Marvel once again stated that books like Ms Marvel, and Spider-Man were strong digital sellers.

Print sales for Ms Marvel have declined, but its digital performance is the same as it ever was. Books like Mighty Thor, and Ms Marvel were dominating the digital charts until DC's Rebirth relaunch. It's current placing in the digital charts is not due to declining digital sales, but certain DC books like Superman, Action Comics, and Super Sons seeing a digital bump with Rebirth. Along with new Marvel titles like the X-books.

This was prior to Rebirth.



If Ms Marvel was only doing better than books that were doing badly, then Marvel and other publishers wouldn't bother dealing with Comxiology. They'd be losing more money than gaining.

Again...all we have here is the word of Marvel with no actual numbers or data to back up or support their claims! Marvel is basically saying take their word for it that these books in digital format are doing great while at the same time denying those who analyze the numbers to be able to determine the real state and health of the comic market overall. This is a form of faulty accounting! In essence Marvel is denying the IRS {the readers,retailers and market analyzers} access to their record keeping books! The only purpose in doing that is to keep us unaware of the true state of the market! Essentially Marvel does not want the investors {readers and retailers} in their product to see that faith in that product has declined...this would then lead to a further loss of faith and revenue loss...this is why the numbers must be kept hidden from us. If the market was healthy and doing well...there would be no reason to hide those numbers!

[Timmyb52]

That is what happens. All the time.

The problem is that fans believe they know what books are really selling and what is or isn't profitable for publishers and then they get irate when their armchair sales analysis doesn't correspond to the real world.

I can't speak for all people who cite numbers. Personally...No Professor...I'm trying to determine the health of the industry overall and wish we had open,free and transparent access to all sales numbers in order to accurately determine the health of the industry as a whole.It has little to nothing about trying to validate the cancellation of a certain book or title.

[gwangung]

I can't speak for all people who cite numbers. Personally...No Professor...I'm trying to determine the health of the industry overall and wish we had open,free and transparent access to all sales numbers in order to accurately determine the health of the industry as a whole.It has little to nothing about trying to validate the cancellation of a certain book or title.

You're not doing a very good job of it.

It's obviousl you you are extremely sloppy in looking at the numbers and you are unjustifiably throwing out information that doesn't conform to your prejudices.

[Mike_Murdock]

Again...all we have here is the word of Marvel with no actual numbers or data to back up or support their claims!

Nor does Marvel have to show what their sales numbers are. Their investors are those who buy their stock (you've confused them with their consumers). They have to justify that investment by showing overall profits and loss (actually, these days, they really just have to justify that to Bob Iger and Disney, Disney has to justify that they are making money to their investors). Individual issue sales are far removed from that.

[Timmyb52]

You're not doing a very good job of it.

It's obviousl you you are extremely sloppy in looking at the numbers and you are unjustifiably throwing out information that doesn't conform to your prejudices.

What numbers? Can you cite these digital numbers for us? Please do...I, along with many others are interested in seeing them!

[Timmyb52]

Nor does Marvel have to show what their sales numbers are. Their investors are those who buy their stock (you've confused them with their consumers). They have to justify that investment by showing overall profits and loss (actually, these days, they really just have to justify that to Bob Iger and Disney, Disney has to justify that they are making money to their investors). Individual issue sales are far removed from that.

True...and I also suspect Marvel publishing is trying very hard to hide the numbers from Disney and the investors also through these types of faulty accounting tricks such as shipping books for free to retailers so they can cite them as sales {remember Enron?}...these type of "tricks" can only work for so long before it becomes obvious that what Marvel is doing is fraudulent. Could I be wrong about this? Of course I can be...but I find that Marvel wishing to keep their numbers secret from everybody that studies the market to be highly suspect. For instance...would you invest in the stock market or any company without having their sales and profit records? Marvel publishing should be showing these numbers in order to gain customer,retailer, and shareholder confidence. By hiding the numbers they are making people weary to continue to invest in their product.Disney has already started firing people in the digital divisions as reported by Bleeding Cool and others...and if my guesses are correct about what is happening...more heads are going to start rolling soon enough if Marvel continues to lose sales and readership month after month.The numbers we have...as I have said several times are not encouraging IMO.I understand that you disagree and that is fine...time will eventually tell the tale whether I am right or wrong.

[Mike_Murdock]

Free shipping of books isn't going to fool Disney because Disney doesn't have to rely on Diamond's numbers to know what sells. They have the actual hard data. Free shipping would be recorded as a loss, not a gain.

If free shipping is about some kind of deceptive practice, it would have to be targeted at the general audience. However, since they also report dollar sale numbers, that doesn't make a ton of sense. Sometimes, free shipping is just designed as a promotional tactic, despite people's thoughts to the contrary.

[Username taken]

Free shipping of books isn't going to fool Disney because Disney doesn't have to rely on Diamond's numbers to know what sells. They have the actual hard data. Free shipping would be recorded as a loss, not a gain.

If free shipping is about some kind of deceptive practice, it would have to be targeted at the general audience. However, since they also report dollar sale numbers, that doesn't make a ton of sense. Sometimes, free shipping is just designed as a promotional tactic, despite people's thoughts to the contrary.

Exactly.

Disney has interal hard numbers that includes ALL forms of distribution.

Even though Bleeding Cool has pointed out the tactic of free shipping they've never suggested that Marvel is doing to fool Disney. As much as some people gripe about it, those extra copies are for promotional purposes.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Thor Generations has gotten a 2nd printing, along with new cover art.



While other Generations issues have also gotten 2nd printings, I believe this is the first issue of Generations that has gotten a 2nd printing after it was released.

[Rogue Star]

I think that cover is probably better than the first one. It doesn't put Thor Odinson in a position where he appears to be the weaker of the two.

[GodThor]

I think that cover is probably better than the first one. It doesn't put Thor Odinson in a position where he appears to be the weaker of the two.

in Aaron's eyes, he is weaker.