ODIN <3's Phoenix: Is Odin the father of Rachel? [THOR SPOILERS]

[GodThor]

LMAO nope.

and as far as I know, Phoenix shouldn't have a gender per say but she views herself as a female.

Odin being the father of Hope wouldn't surprise me now.

[theoneandonly]

Odin fathered Thor with the Phoenix who got together with emmapheonix in prison and birthed a Phoenix egg which cyclops got and harvested and he encountered battle world inferno Madeline and birthed alt cable who realised he was the askani father so made himself go back before mutiversal destruction and he replaced his cable at the time of his death and unconsciously immediately birthed hope to be his child the way he was Rachael's child and then hope birthed the first iron fist who flew of in the past to be with odin when the dragon and Phoenix mated using her as a incubating vessel and she passed on to the white room but was rudely ejected back to earth which caused a great fall and attracted the pheonixs attention towards teen jean in alternate reality so she made iceman make the suggestion and made beast ill and broken so he could be induced to bring them to this reality and also brought jimmy to this reality and recreated cyclops and her link so the conditions could be conducive to give rise to the ultimate dark Phoenix who shall mate with darkseid to give birth to wonder woman.

[Mike_Murdock]

I think I heard somewhere that Claremont intended Jean to be the mother and the Phoenix Force itself to be the father.

Honestly, this discussion doesn't make sense because we know Rachel's mother is Jean. There isn't a scenario where Odin could be the father in that case.

If we go Word of God canon, the Phoenix Force is the father and Jean Grey is the mother. If we go by an Alan Davis written issue of Excalibur when Rachel was in a healing cocoon, the Phoenix explicitly says Rachel's parents are Scott and Jean (but it might mean in the sense that Scott raised her). Once again, there's no room for Odin and Phoenix and no Jean. As a question of what I'd prefer, I'd say the same thing. I'm fine with Scott not necessarily being her father, but I don't like the idea that she is adopted and related to neither of them.

FWIW, I think there is textual support for the Phoenix Force being Rachel's father, although I think that textual support has been undercut. The implication early on is the Phoenix is a multiversal creature. It can cross the multiverse, but it is, in itself, a unique entity. There isn't a Phoenix Force for each universe. This helps explain why, during the Crosstime Caper, Excalibur never encountered another Rachel Summers. While there were many Scott and Jeans, there weren't many Phoenix and Jeans. Therefore, the character was never created elsewhere.

Now I think there have been AU Rachel Summers who have popped up since that story, though.

Reread AvX.

No

So the Phoenix was the father of Rachel... meaning the Phoenix was male... Odin banged the Phoenix... So Odin is bisexual too then?

I know this is a joke, but the implication is the Phoenix is sort of like the Holy Spirit being responsible for Jesus. There would be a sense that it is neither male nor female. Although the Phoenix does often take female hosts.

[Badou]

I think I heard somewhere that Claremont intended Jean to be the mother and the Phoenix Force itself to be the father.

I believe they gave that origin to Hope now where the Phoenix gave birth to her with some woman in Alaska.

[WheelchairX]

Honestly, this discussion doesn't make sense because we know Rachel's mother is Jean. There isn't a scenario where Odin could be the father in that case.

If we go Word of God canon, the Phoenix Force is the father and Jean Grey is the mother. If we go by an Alan Davis written issue of Excalibur when Rachel was in a healing cocoon, the Phoenix explicitly says Rachel's parents are Scott and Jean (but it might mean in the sense that Scott raised her). Once again, there's no room for Odin and Phoenix and no Jean. As a question of what I'd prefer, I'd say the same thing. I'm fine with Scott not necessarily being her father, but I don't like the idea that she is adopted and related to neither of them.

FWIW, I think there is textual support for the Phoenix Force being Rachel's father, although I think that textual support has been undercut. The implication early on is the Phoenix is a multiversal creature. It can cross the multiverse, but it is, in itself, a unique entity. There isn't a Phoenix Force for each universe. This helps explain why, during the Crosstime Caper, Excalibur never encountered another Rachel Summers. While there were many Scott and Jeans, there weren't many Phoenix and Jeans. Therefore, the character was never created elsewhere.

Now I think there have been AU Rachel Summers who have popped up since that story, though.



No



I know this is a joke, but the implication is the Phoenix is sort of like the Holy Spirit being responsible for Jesus. There would be a sense that it is neither male nor female. Although the Phoenix does often take female hosts.

And that's the problem with comics, Claremont's stated in interviews afterwards, that that was the case, but since it was never made textual or explicit, other writers have interpretated in other ways.

And for those who overlooked it:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/rac...men/e/43140207

If you to go from around 10:40 to 11:30, you'll hear Claremont state that the Phoenix is Rachel's father

[DDM]

Honestly, this discussion doesn't make sense because we know Rachel's mother is Jean. There isn't a scenario where Odin could be the father in that case.

Sure there is. The Phoenix is a multiversal constant, it transcends space and time and it's chosen form to manifest is based directly off Jean. That way you can have it essentially being Jean, right down to the genome, without being Jean herself but being pure Phoenix and mating with Odin on Earth 616 thousands of years back. The Phoenix then manifested the resulting pregnancy on Earth 811 within it's avatar. Easy.

Now I think there have been AU Rachel Summers who have popped up since that story, though.

This was explained by Rachel herself in the white hot room. There are indeed other Rachels that are the daughters of Scotts and Jeans across the multiverse but for some reason they aren't true alternates of Rachel herself. Canonically she is multiversally unique.

[DDM]

I believe they gave that origin to Hope now where the Phoenix gave birth to her with some woman in Alaska.

I think Hope might be the Phoenix's second child after Rachel, but we need confirmation first that she is also multiversally unique.

It'd be fun having two though. Sibling White Warrior Princesses of the Crown.

[5cents]

I feel like we need Maury.

[Agatha's Ghost]

Rachel already said in Excalibur that the color of the costume doesn't matter. So again she's not the White Phoenix of the Crown.

I don't understand? In AvX, it's even stated. Of course, Rachel thinks the colour of the costume does not matter. That's because she believes she's the Phoenix's only child.

[CoCoBandz]

I don't understand? In AvX, it's even stated. Of course, Rachel thinks the colour of the costume does not matter. That's because she believes she's the Phoenix's only child.

She's the only one that matters.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Rachel is just a mess that needs to needs to go away. No one wants to commit to actually giving her anything other than whinging about her mother

[berserkerclaw]

apparently, odin and phoenix have a sexual relationship. who knows the details or how long this has been going on. in thor generations, odin and phoenix have a chat and reminisce about their romantic encounters.

rachel never knew who her real father was. she suspected cycke (i still believe that to be true) but then there were rumors of an immaculate conception.

if odin and phoenix continued their relationship into the present, it's possible that odin could be rachel's father after all. it wouldn't even count as a retcon. rachel could be a demigod.

bleeding cool has more info here.

what do you think? is odin rachels dad?

if so, then her battle with thor in avx was actually a form of sibling rivalry.

Hell no. That idea is just meh.

[CoCoBandz]

Rachel is just a mess that needs to needs to go away. No one wants to commit to actually giving her anything other than whinging about her mother

Now that's just mean. Rachel is cool.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Now that's just mean. Rachel is cool.

She's inconsistent and the poster child for everything wrong with the Phoenix.

[CoCoBandz]

She's inconsistent and the poster child for everything wrong with the Phoenix.

I can't think of a consistent character in the X-Men that hasn't been wallpaper for the last ten years. Also is there even anything right about the Phoenix? If the bird had her way she'd have Cyclops locked in a cage making her millions redheaded babies.