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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Calintz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    What happens is that in individual stories, the writers try to show her as strong but collectively, it makes her look weak. There are stories where she fights off the possession, or does not actually lose control (in the Morgan Le Fey story she was fully conscious and her will was strong enough to set the other Avengers free from brainwashing). But it adds up to a pattern of her looking like she's easily-controlled and not concerned enough about the potential consequences of getting controlled.

    Mind you, her sometime-husband Vision is even easier to control; not only did he spend this whole last event mind-controlled like her, but one of his first acts as an Avenger was to rebuild Ultron out of adamantium because Ultron programmed it into him, he took over the world in the '80s, etc. There's probably a bit of a double standard in that so many of her stories about how weak and unstable she is. But at least Vision's instability and creepy obsession with family made for a great story, which Wanda really hasn't had yet.
    Ahhhhhhhhhh thank you for that. I just couldn't understand the whole possession thing when it came to SW. Then again there's Jean lol

  2. #77
    Scarlet Witch~4~LIFE!!^_^ CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calintz View Post
    Now see i hate that. A writer does all this good story telling in a Solo just to be an after thought in another. This is why i get so annoyed at marvel.
    Indeed Spencer had a good secret empires story but was handling way too many characters in doing so and came up with quick excuses to get them out-of-the-way to tell his Captain America story and doing this so those characters would not be a plot threat in any Ways sadly. This is why marvel needs to take a break from events.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS! I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC! Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE! Let The CALL Go Forth -- AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2023!

  3. #78
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Honestly I think the whining from Rogue fans because of Wanda being here it's quite ridiculous. Wanda is the one in a bad place here, not Rogue. Rogue has been the protagonist of the book since the beginning, while Wanda is coming here 25+ issues later. Whatever beef they may or may not have, it's gonna be about Rogue's development with Wanda as a plot device. And, you know, there's the fact that she was possessed, pretty much raped and forced to work with Hydra. And with a Legacy cover like this, and her acting kinda weird on the preview, she's probably gonna be blamed for it and used as an antagonist somehow.

    But of course that's all just me not paying attention to the facts, she was drawn as taller on the cover, that it's from an artist that isn't even the same as the interiors one, so they're obviously gonna be using Rogue to prop her!

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Well considering what they've gone through the situation is complicated.

    UA has been a good read and now that SE is over and Red Skull is no longer a threat they can go back to their original mission of uniting the heroes and groups of super beings and which we must admit have not made much progress and so they are essential mainly Now after SE.

    The situation with Wanda is tricky. I understand if Rogue has problems with her on the team because if they want to improve the image of the heroes having Wanda in the team after SE with her helping Hydra is not good publicity .

    On the other hand Wanda is just a victim as many have already been.

    As for me I'm tired of heroes vs heroes and I'm tired of this schism between Wanda and Rogue this should already have been left behind but the writers do not leave because they continue to make Wanda lose control of every event .

    I hope now with legcy this team will become the main brand of marvel as it has great potential and a perfect plot for the current situation.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Honestly I think the whining from Rogue fans because of Wanda being here it's quite ridiculous. Wanda is the one in a bad place here, not Rogue. Rogue has been the protagonist of the book since the beginning, while Wanda is coming here 25+ issues later.
    Yeah, but Rogue has been in a much better place in this book since Wanda left. Maybe if Duggan had had Wanda in his cast he would have done all right with her, but he didn't, so Rogue fans are comparing the bad place she was in under Remender to the good place she's been in the Wanda-free UA. That's the writer's fault, not the character's, but fans look at Rogue and Wanda on the cover and go "oh, not again."

    Personally I just think it's unfortunate that Wanda never gets to interact with anyone except Rogue (because their pointless fighting and even more pointless reconciliation defined Remender's run), plus her brother and maybe Simon Williams. There are so many Marvel characters she hasn't talked to in years if not decades, like Carol. She's never really been re-integrated into the Marvel universe. She needs to get back to the wider Avengers world just like Rogue needed to get back some X-Men time.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Calintz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Honestly I think the whining from Rogue fans because of Wanda being here it's quite ridiculous. Wanda is the one in a bad place here, not Rogue. Rogue has been the protagonist of the book since the beginning, while Wanda is coming here 25+ issues later. Whatever beef they may or may not have, it's gonna be about Rogue's development with Wanda as a plot device. And, you know, there's the fact that she was possessed, pretty much raped and forced to work with Hydra. And with a Legacy cover like this, and her acting kinda weird on the preview, she's probably gonna be blamed for it and used as an antagonist somehow.

    But of course that's all just me not paying attention to the facts, she was drawn as taller on the cover, that it's from an artist that isn't even the same as the interiors one, so they're obviously gonna be using Rogue to prop her!

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Calintz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Yeah, but Rogue has been in a much better place in this book since Wanda left. Maybe if Duggan had had Wanda in his cast he would have done all right with her, but he didn't, so Rogue fans are comparing the bad place she was in under Remender to the good place she's been in the Wanda-free UA. That's the writer's fault, not the character's, but fans look at Rogue and Wanda on the cover and go "oh, not again."

    Personally I just think it's unfortunate that Wanda never gets to interact with anyone except Rogue (because their pointless fighting and even more pointless reconciliation defined Remender's run), plus her brother and maybe Simon Williams. There are so many Marvel characters she hasn't talked to in years if not decades, like Carol. She's never really been re-integrated into the Marvel universe. She needs to get back to the wider Avengers world just like Rogue needed to get back some X-Men time.
    That's exactly how I feel about it. Thank you

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calintz View Post
    That's exactly how I feel about it. Thank you
    I think that It would be better to say:
    Rogue has been in a much better place in this book since Remender(and Acuna) left.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Honestly I think the whining from Rogue fans because of Wanda being here it's quite ridiculous. Wanda is the one in a bad place here, not Rogue. Rogue has been the protagonist of the book since the beginning, while Wanda is coming here 25+ issues later. Whatever beef they may or may not have, it's gonna be about Rogue's development with Wanda as a plot device. And, you know, there's the fact that she was possessed, pretty much raped and forced to work with Hydra. And with a Legacy cover like this, and her acting kinda weird on the preview, she's probably gonna be blamed for it and used as an antagonist somehow.

    But of course that's all just me not paying attention to the facts, she was drawn as taller on the cover, that it's from an artist that isn't even the same as the interiors one, so they're obviously gonna be using Rogue to prop her!
    I posted two very small opinions but you used that for all Rogue fans. My reservations are based on Remenders controversial run. Rogue was a prop for Wanda and all Rogue fans got was this hideous costume by Acuna. Hope to be delightfully surprised.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    I think that It would be better to say:
    Rogue has been in a much better place in this book since Remender(and Acuna) left.
    That's not any more true than what gurkle said, but I suspect you're probably debate baiting.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen View Post
    I posted two very small opinions but you used that for all Rogue fans. My reservations are based on Remenders controversial run. Rogue was a prop for Wanda and all Rogue fans got was this hideous costume by Acuna. Hope to be delightfully surprised.
    Rogue was stuck under the hood in Remender's run and she was finally freed of it when he left but now that Wanda's back, back under the hood she goes. That tells me that someone sees fit to take cues from one of the worst periods in Rogue's recent history.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    That's not any more true than what gurkle said, but I suspect you're probably debate baiting.
    Who knows?
    but if Your first part is true then it is impossible to debate about this right?
    how would our debate look ?
    - Rogue has been in a much better place in this book since Remender(and Acuna) left because Rogue was a prop for Wanda in their story
    - yes. You are right
    The only difference is: focus
    I would be scarred if Remender would return to write this book. I would probably skip this book before reading first issue.

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Yeah, but Rogue has been in a much better place in this book since Wanda left. Maybe if Duggan had had Wanda in his cast he would have done all right with her, but he didn't, so Rogue fans are comparing the bad place she was in under Remender to the good place she's been in the Wanda-free UA. That's the writer's fault, not the character's, but fans look at Rogue and Wanda on the cover and go "oh, not again."
    Aka the comments are mostly irrational. I'm just repeating myself now, but Rogue is team leader, the POV character and the one who has been the protagonist here since the book started to now. As you said, she's coming from a better place, while Wanda has been written like nothing on SE. I wouldn't even say that she's a plot device, cause she was possessed through the whole thing and didn't even had a significant role after all. From what I've got from Zub's Rogue on his first issues, the possible conflict with Wanda if there's really one will probably be about Rogue learning something from it and growing as a leader. Even if she goes to a bad place, it's gonna be a "make the reader root for her to overcome it" bad place rather than treating her like a worthless plot device. I just don't see how she would have any disadvantage when it comes to the narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by jen View Post
    I posted two very small opinions but you used that for all Rogue fans. My reservations are based on Remenders controversial run. Rogue was a prop for Wanda and all Rogue fans got was this hideous costume by Acuna. Hope to be delightfully surprised.
    While the bolded part was about what you said, the overall comment wasn't specifically directed at you. I've seen plenty of people with this same(or worse, mostly) attitude, talking about how they hope they see Wanda punching "Scarlet Bitch" again and all that ****.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Rogue was stuck under the hood in Remender's run and she was finally freed of it when he left but now that Wanda's back, back under the hood she goes. That tells me that someone sees fit to take cues from one of the worst periods in Rogue's recent history.
    Uncanny Avengers vol 3 issue 15?
    http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...ers-15-review/
    vs
    https://twitter.com/SeanIzaakse/stat...31683050319876

    I only want to show You that this is more complicated. Rogue was using her hood in UA vol 3 many times
    luckily usually for short time (1-2 panels)
    that was smaller hood which is also good
    Rogue by Pepe Larraz looks great even when she is using her hood
    Rogue by Acuna looks weak even without hood

    personal opinion

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Well, I know one thing and that it's good to see this team able to directly work on their mission statement. They've mostly been used to build up to events/crossovers (SiXiS, Standoff, CWII, IvX, SE) but now with SE out of the way, the storytelling pool of UA is overflowing with ideas. I hope people continue to pick this up (in my wildest dreams, this title outsells XM Gold). Also: Covers always lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    Beast and Wonder Man will join in issue 28 not 26

    ţh€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon:

    I think that this tweet means that Human Torch will be with them
    https://twitter.com/JimZub/status/886665694825336835
    Oh cool. Really liked his chemistry w/ QS.

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