Who is right: Professor Xavier vs. Magneto

[Harpsikord]

How about you need both?

No minority group ever got more rights just by politely asking for them.

Okay, but this tho.

Weren't MLK and Malcolm X influences for Charles and Erik, respectively, at one point or another?

[Victorian_Soul]

Okay, but this tho.

Weren't MLK and Malcolm X influences for Charles and Erik, respectively, at one point or another?

Yes they were. Which is still apart of they're character.

[Vegan Daddy]

Okay, but this tho.

Weren't MLK and Malcolm X influences for Charles and Erik, respectively, at one point or another?

I guess, but the comparisons are superficial. MLK abhorred violence, but Xavier recruits and trains young Mutants to fight; he's practically a warlord. If anything, Xavier is closer to Malcolm X.

As for Magneto and the Brotherhood, they're more like Hamas and other fundamentalist groups.

[ExodusCloak]

Okay, but this tho.

Weren't MLK and Malcolm X influences for Charles and Erik, respectively, at one point or another?

They weren't. That's a mistake a lot of fans make.

[Harpsikord]

I guess, but the comparisons are superficial. MLK abhorred violence, but Xavier recruits and trains young Mutants to fight; he's practically a warlord. If anything, Xavier is closer to Malcolm X.

As for Magneto and the Brotherhood, they're more like Hamas and other fundamentalist groups.

I think you and I have a drastically different interpretation of what it is that Xavier did because when it comes down to it, I don't think that it was that. Xavier taught his students how to use their powers in multiple situations - some of them combative - but when it comes down to it his intent wasn't just to make them fight others, it was so that they could protect themselves as well as those that COULDN'T do that. Xavier knew that they would be targets but more than that he knew that people like them would be targets so they needed to be able to save them. There's a reason that the majority of the X-Men have a strict no-kill code.

[ExodusCloak]

I think you and I have a drastically different interpretation of what it is that Xavier did because when it comes down to it, I don't think that it was that. Xavier taught his students how to use their powers in multiple situations - some of them combative - but when it comes down to it his intent wasn't just to make them fight others, it was so that they could protect themselves as well as those that COULDN'T do that. Xavier knew that they would be targets but more than that he knew that people like them would be targets so they needed to be able to save them. There's a reason that the majority of the X-Men have a strict no-kill code.

Xavier was a angry hermit with control issues from issue 1.

[Nabu]

Instead of fighting in tights for over a decade, why not just strategically alter key influential targets in military, political, industrial and media sectors?

I always wondered why X-Men weren't, apart from the obligatory combat sessions, trained to be politicians, social activists, lobbyists, heck even businessmen or celebrities. Those are professions which can influence the social-economic-legal-political changes that affect how mutants are perceived and treated. I suppose with powers like super strenght or endurance or shooting plasma you're better off Washington DC, but telepaths could be extremely useful there. Also, any presidential administration ought to have a position like Chief Telepath who could protect the president from being mind-controlled.

[Harpsikord]

Xavier was a angry hermit with control issues from issue 1.

One point does not denigrate the other.

[yogaflame]

I always wondered why X-Men weren't, apart from the obligatory combat sessions, trained to be politicians, social activists, lobbyists, heck even businessmen or celebrities. Those are professions which can influence the social-economic-legal-political changes that affect how mutants are perceived and treated. I suppose with powers like super strenght or endurance or shooting plasma you're better off Washington DC, but telepaths could be extremely useful there. Also, any presidential administration ought to have a position like Chief Telepath who could protect the president from being mind-controlled.

I think in the end, as much as we might prefer to think otherwise, comic books are mostly just about fighting and romance, moreso than actual think tanks for societal evolution. Comic books about diplomacy and accounting probably wouldn't fly off the shelves or inspire many blockbuster films.

[ExodusCloak]

One point does not denigrate the other.

Stan Lee never created them with that in mind. There was a discussion on these boards a few years ago. It wasn't MLK or Malcolm X who they were based on.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/pdjelicl...ogy-thing/amp/

[yogaflame]

Old school Magneto (under Stan Lee) did not have any of the nuance or sympathetic backstory that we think of in terms of Claremont's Magneto.

The closest any of his issues got to being relevant about social justice/civil rights would be the Sentinels story, but overall the O5 era does not hold as a good metaphor for social justice/civil rights. Remember how Hank and Bobby would make fun of beatniks and later hippies in their Coffee-A-Go-Go visits? Remember how all the O5 wished they could get rid of their powers and be normal?

[gurkle]

Old school Magneto (under Stan Lee) did not have any of the nuance or sympathetic backstory that we think of in terms of Claremont's Magneto.

Even Claremont's Magneto had no redeeming qualities the first few times he used him. It wasn't until X-Men # 125 (where we saw him looking at a picture of his dead wife) that he started to have some nobility, and then a couple of years later Claremont introduced the idea of Magneto as a tragic figure with a Holocaust-survivor backstory.

It makes sense that Magneto should be played as a more noble villain, because unlike most comic book supervillains he actually has a point. But Lee and Kirby never gave him the dignity that Doctor Doom or some other villains had. He was just pure ranting cartoon evil, to the point that Claremont later had to come up with retcon explanations for the fact that '60s and '70s Magneto is almost a completely different character from the one we know.

So when it comes to comparing Professor X and Magneto originally, it's less a civil rights metaphor and more of a story about power and responsibility. Xavier believes that since mutants have great powers, they have a duty to use it for good, including fighting other, evil mutants (which was the X-Men's mission statement). Magneto believes that because mutants are genetically superior they have a right to rule the world. Even Claremont kept some of that idea into the '80s, like in "God Loves, Man Kills" when Magneto explains why the world will be better off when he is in charge. But eventually that Hitler-esque aspect of his character fell away.

[yogaflame]

But eventually that Hitler-esque aspect of his character fell away.

Except when Morrison had him go full Hitler in his run!

Honestly, the supremacist angle has actually been woven into the X-Men's mo a lot more since then(particularly in terms of Utopia). They are a special people and have to protect themselves from being wiped out, even if that means lashing out at those around them.

[Omnihallows]

Sorry if I'm late, but I've been keeping this for a long time

I think Xavier and Magneto are right and at the same time they are wrong

First of all, Xavier is right that humans and mutants can coexist, but he is wrong if he believes that all people will agree with his ideology.

Magneto is right that humans have attempted a genocide against the mutants, but he is wrong to believe that ALL humans are racist and prejudiced.


That's the problem Xavier is too optimistic and Magneto is emotionally violent, It is true that over the years there have been attempts at genocide against the mutants, as is the case with Genosha, but I believe that Magneto, in judging all of humanity by the actions of a few, shows that he is an inferior being and primitive.

When World War II broke out, did all the Germans join the Nazi party ?? there were also no Allied traitors ?? Even during the Cold War there wars spies in both sides.

Magneto, due to his experience in the concentration camps, saw the atrocities of humanity, but was he the only one? there were no other jews with him too ?? but we don't see any Jew declaring war and supremacy, the same with black people.

Magneto uses the prisoner of war card to achieve his goals, which are too extreme for my taste, that is, if ONE SINGLE HUMAN kills a mutant, what is the solution? exterminate or enslave all humanity ??

Humans are not perfect, they are failed beings, like all species in the Marvel universe, but they can be better people by being educated and taught in the right way. Hate, prejudice and racism is not something that is inherited or born, it is something that is taught.

Do you remember Erik's speech in Xmen Days of Future Past, where he told humans that they do well to fear mutants because they are the future? How is it possible someone who was in a war, want more war? It has no logic, it is causing panic in humans, who have DONE NOTHING TO HIM, and at the same time turns Pro-mutant Humans against him.

What about minorities in the world? there is a lot of intolerance, it is true, but there are also people who try to help and support the different oppressed ethnic groups

So why does Magneto take revenge on all the humans on the planet, even though there are also oppressed people and some support mutant rights? What's more, he is capable of killing one of his own if he discovers that it is a threat to his power, remember Leech from Last Stand ?? or how does he treat his army as pawns? How can Magneto justify his actions and say at the same time that mutants are evolved beings?

Take for example other franchises

Star Wars

The galactic empire was mostly made up of humans, but the rebellion also had humans who opposed the empire's fascist regime. So we could not judge all of humanity by Sidious' actions.

One Piece
The Fishmen are sold as slaves to the World Nobles, who are human, but the Revolutionaries are also human and help free the slaves. Whitebeard and his crew protected Fishman Island and they are human.


What I want to get to is that Magneto's ideology, although in part it is justified, we cannot classify a whole species by the actions of some, the problem is not the humans themselves, it is the government, they are the universal legislators, yes Captain America was in charge, it would be very different.

I think the X-men should evaluate their relationships between species

Pro-mutant: Friend

Anti-mutant: Enemy

[Kingdom X]

Sorry if I'm late, but I've been keeping this for a long time

I think Xavier and Magneto are right and at the same time they are wrong

First of all, Xavier is right that humans and mutants can coexist, but he is wrong if he believes that all people will agree with his ideology.

Magneto is right that humans have attempted a genocide against the mutants, but he is wrong to believe that ALL humans are racist and prejudiced.


That's the problem Xavier is too optimistic and Magneto is emotionally violent, It is true that over the years there have been attempts at genocide against the mutants, as is the case with Genosha, but I believe that Magneto, in judging all of humanity by the actions of a few, shows that he is an inferior being and primitive.

When World War II broke out, did all the Germans join the Nazi party ?? there were also no Allied traitors ?? Even during the Cold War there wars spies in both sides.

Magneto, due to his experience in the concentration camps, saw the atrocities of humanity, but was he the only one? there were no other jews with him too ?? but we don't see any Jew declaring war and supremacy, the same with black people.

Magneto uses the prisoner of war card to achieve his goals, which are too extreme for my taste, that is, if ONE SINGLE HUMAN kills a mutant, what is the solution? exterminate or enslave all humanity ??

Humans are not perfect, they are failed beings, like all species in the Marvel universe, but they can be better people by being educated and taught in the right way. Hate, prejudice and racism is not something that is inherited or born, it is something that is taught.

Do you remember Erik's speech in Xmen Days of Future Past, where he told humans that they do well to fear mutants because they are the future? How is it possible someone who was in a war, want more war? It has no logic, it is causing panic in humans, who have DONE NOTHING TO HIM, and at the same time turns Pro-mutant Humans against him.

What about minorities in the world? there is a lot of intolerance, it is true, but there are also people who try to help and support the different oppressed ethnic groups

So why does Magneto take revenge on all the humans on the planet, even though there are also oppressed people and some support mutant rights? What's more, he is capable of killing one of his own if he discovers that it is a threat to his power, remember Leech from Last Stand ?? or how does he treat his army as pawns? How can Magneto justify his actions and say at the same time that mutants are evolved beings?

Take for example other franchises

Star Wars

The galactic empire was mostly made up of humans, but the rebellion also had humans who opposed the empire's fascist regime. So we could not judge all of humanity by Sidious' actions.

One Piece
The Fishmen are sold as slaves to the World Nobles, who are human, but the Revolutionaries are also human and help free the slaves. Whitebeard and his crew protected Fishman Island and they are human.


What I want to get to is that Magneto's ideology, although in part it is justified, we cannot classify a whole species by the actions of some, the problem is not the humans themselves, it is the government, they are the universal legislators, yes Captain America was in charge, it would be very different.

I think the X-men should evaluate their relationships between species

Pro-mutant: Friend

Anti-mutant: Enemy

I really cannot stand the, “but they’re not all bad”, argument. Human individuals and governments have been mercilessly killing mutants for years. Humans benefit from a status quo where mutants are suffering so the vast majority do nothing. Obviously Magneto shouldn’t go around attacking people because murder and assault is wrong, but until humans stop being passive bystanders they are just as much to blame.