Ed Skrein Drops Out of Hellboy to Avoid Whitewashing

[JBatmanFan05]

Not only does this clearly show the double standards that the Liberal Church is maintaining but, reading the sermon that is the article about it here on CBR, also just how much fear this small group of fanatics is capable of instilling into society. For some reason, the sites that inform us and review pop culture (Comics, Movies, TV, Books, Games) have been taken over by the most devout the SJW-faith can call upon. The discrepancy between the CBR-article by Renaldo Matadeen and the comments to that article is considerable. Ed Skrein is smart by pulling out and I'm sure it will ensure his continuied employment conforming to the SJW's demands like he did but it's scary that it's indeed true that how more things change, the more they stay the same. The names and lables change, the practices stay the same.

I agree that double standards and hypocrisy abound on the subject of race swapping.

[Kees_L]

This makes it seem daunting. The old Hellboy stuff was pretty standalone from what I remember of them. I'd say anyone could jump right into the BPRD comics without having ever read Hellboy too. They seem to operate somewhat along the lines of the old Marvel GI Joe comics and the first two volumes of League of Extraordinary Gentleman; you'll get a complete thing in a single issue, and then (like LoEG) you'll also get a full overall arc. Seems to be one of the best team comics in the last 17 years.

Much agreed.

I have been reading things from the getgo and every Hellboy story or B.P.R.D.-related story (including Lobster Johnson ao) has been or still is either standalone or a "mini-series".
Meaning that every book or every title is made to hold up even as being its own thing completely.

Of course now that completion nears for the entire story-world, there'll now exist a lot more titles to choose from than ever before.

But it's funny how basically any title or book may still contain certain leading connotations towards the bigger scheme of things, regardless of being recent or not, regardless of seeming entwined with the most current books or not.
Because basically everything is connected and readers are meant to be forming their own views, be they new or old readers, completist or casual.
Within the storytelling any destinies or what deeper motifs and machinations get presented as proving paradoxes as much as premisses, on a constant.

Or to put it succinct(-er): even if stuff appears daunting or vast (and dark/bleak at times) anyone should expect pleasurable reading experiences, as best as comics or stories could offer!
As far as the comics go at least, whatever movie adaptations could muster, audiences will just have to wait and see.

[G. Boney]

Secondly I really don't get what the rules are for movie castings anymore, with this role everyone freaked out because ED Skrein does not look like the character, (Which as a comics fan I get, it always annoys me when the cast a character and the actor doesn't in any way resemble the character, yet alot of the same people who complained about this complained when Marvel Cast Danny rand as a guy who looked like danny rand.

I think you are making assumptions. How do you know it's the same people complaining? And who says there are "rules"? There are tons of directors, producers, casting directors, etc. making a variety of choices and decisions.

I agree that actors in comics movies should reflect the comic characters they are portraying but right now it kinda just seems like people pick and choose different arguments to complain about castings. To me it doesn't seem right that when it come to roles like Mordo, Johnny Storm, Heimdall, Perry White, Moneypenny Felix leiter, Valkryie, Jimmy Olson, Liz Allen, MJ, the blue and black ranger and Electro that it was ok to change the character because the actor they picked earned the role in an audition but when it comes to a role like this it was not ok, even though supposedly the actor earned the role in an audition. I understand that white washing is a concern but it seems like people only demand that a character looks like the comic character when it suits their argument and that annoys me.

I saw plenty of complaints from people about all those casting choices that you listed with the exception of Felix Leiter (not saying there weren't complaints, just that I didn't see any).

Also in the examples you gave you seem to have done the same thing you're saying others are doing. For example why did you only pick the blue and black rangers? The female rangers are ethnically different as well, not to mention Rita. Not sure why you included MJ since the character of Michelle in Spidey Homecoming isn't Mary Jane.

Cast a white guy in the Ben Daimio role and the one asian character in the movie is gone. Cast a black guy as Heimdall or an asian guy as Reggie Mantle and there are still a million white characters in the movie or tv show. I'm personally perfectly fine with every character looking like they do in the source material, but people need to stop pretending they don't see difference or know the reason (whether you agree with it or not) these producers choose to give non-white actors roles (usually small supporting ones at that) of characters that are white in the source material.

[motherofpearl1]

I think you are making assumptions. How do you know it's the same people complaining? And who says there are "rules"? There are tons of directors, producers, casting directors, etc. making a variety of choices and decisions.



I saw plenty of complaints from people about all those casting choices that you listed with the exception of Felix Leiter (not saying there weren't complaints, just that I didn't see any).

Also in the examples you gave you seem to have done the same thing you're saying others are doing. For example why did you only pick the blue and black rangers? The female rangers are ethnically different as well, not to mention Rita. Not sure why you included MJ since the character of Michelle in Spidey Homecoming isn't Mary Jane.

Cast a white guy in the Ben Daimio role and the one asian character in the movie is gone. Cast a black guy as Heimdall or an asian guy as Reggie Mantle and there are still a million white characters in the movie or tv show. I'm personally perfectly fine with every character looking like they do in the source material, but people need to stop pretending they don't see difference or know the reason (whether you agree with it or not) these producers choose to give non-white actors roles (usually small supporting ones at that) of characters that are white in the source material.

The exceptions to the rule are The Force Awakens and Rogue One, both which featured non white characters in major roles. And instead of 'blackwashing' or 'whitewashing' they were all original characters. And great.

[Exciter]

Starchild , i'd recommend researching a bit more on this subject. Ben Daimio was a very important character to the BPRD comics and is a fan favorite. Him being Japanese is crucial to his character. Why some fans would tell you otherwise is beyond me. I'm guessing they never read BPRD in the first place.

I've been a longtime fan of BPRD. I honestly don't recall him being Japanese being crucial to his character in any significant way. As I recall, he was a hardass military man who happened to be possessed by a South American Jaguar God. Honest question, in what way was his ethnicity crucial to his character?

[Midvillian1322]

I think you are making assumptions. How do you know it's the same people complaining? And who says there are "rules"? There are tons of directors, producers, casting directors, etc. making a variety of choices and decisions.



I saw plenty of complaints from people about all those casting choices that you listed with the exception of Felix Leiter (not saying there weren't complaints, just that I didn't see any).

Also in the examples you gave you seem to have done the same thing you're saying others are doing. For example why did you only pick the blue and black rangers? The female rangers are ethnically different as well, not to mention Rita. Not sure why you included MJ since the character of Michelle in Spidey Homecoming isn't Mary Jane.

Cast a white guy in the Ben Daimio role and the one asian character in the movie is gone. Cast a black guy as Heimdall or an asian guy as Reggie Mantle and there are still a million white characters in the movie or tv show. I'm personally perfectly fine with every character looking like they do in the source material, but people need to stop pretending they don't see difference or know the reason (whether you agree with it or not) these producers choose to give non-white actors roles (usually small supporting ones at that) of characters that are white in the source material.

Perfectly stated but im sure you will get hit with a fasle equivalency soon.

[Kees_L]

I've been a longtime fan of BPRD. I honestly don't recall him being Japanese being crucial to his character in any significant way. As I recall, he was a hardass military man who happened to be possessed by a South American Jaguar God. Honest question, in what way was his ethnicity crucial to his character?

You ask a fair question, but then again the same could be asked for any (fictional) characters' ethnicality: how important is it to correctly catch where the Baba Yaga is from? Or why would it matter where certain folklore originates from? Does it matter whether Hellboy could be seen as an American citizen or that he was granted 'honorary human status' by the U.S. government according to the 2008 Hellboy Companion?
Does it matter that the Crooked Man story takes place in the Appalachian mountains? Is the Celtic stuff like faeries or the Blood Queen only relevant for the British isles?

My answer would be that for any readers it wouldn't be necessary to be some total history buff or total nitpicker per se. But. Pretty much all ethnicities or at least all corners of the globe are represented within the Hellboy and related comics. As if heritage or mythology has its place within Mignola's Hell-verse. Kind of like the Indiana Jones movies, there seems a good degree of 'real life- / actual historic' footing to things.
And if ethnicity or heritage is made to become determinable more or less, then why not adapt it into the/a movie as such?

It's up to the reader/viewer to decide how crucial they'd find certain characterization, but in-story the character Daimio does become presented as being Japanese-American. Plus a Japanese elderly relative of his becomes presented or revealed at one point as potentially even more mysterious and notorious in her day, being.... spoiler warning

The Crimson Lotus

I forgot how to correctly apply spoiler tags I'm afraid...

However crucial or not, the comics of Hellboy both as the B.P.R.D. or either Lobster Johnson, etc - any of them - may prove linked or be to reveal pretty nifty details toward the bigger scheme of stuff (i.e. "the secret history of the world") in rather a big way. So much that any adaptation - especially this new movie presenting itself as remaining faithful to its source material (eventhough the GDT movies do not) - would need to follow to the point of at least getting things straight I'd presume.

[Immortal Weapon]

I would have taken the paycheck.

[Exciter]

You ask a fair question, but then again the same could be asked for any (fictional) characters' ethnicality: how important is it to correctly catch where the Baba Yaga is from? Or why would it matter where certain folklore originates from? Does it matter whether Hellboy could be seen as an American citizen or that he was granted 'honorary human status' by the U.S. government according to the 2008 Hellboy Companion?
Does it matter that the Crooked Man story takes place in the Appalachian mountains? Is the Celtic stuff like faeries or the Blood Queen only relevant for the British isles?

My answer would be that for any readers it wouldn't be necessary to be some total history buff or total nitpicker per se. But. Pretty much all ethnicities or at least all corners of the globe are represented within the Hellboy and related comics. As if heritage or mythology has its place within Mignola's Hell-verse.
And if ethnicity or heritage is made to become determinable, then why not adapt it into the/a movie as such?

It's up to the reader/viewer to decide how crucial they'd find certain characterization, but in-story the character Daimio does become presented as being Japanese-American. Plus a Japanese elderly relative of his becomes presented or revealed at one point as potentially even more mysterious and notorious in her day, being.... spoiler warning

The Crimson Lotus

I forgot how to correctly apply spoiler tags I'm afraid...

However crucial or not, the comics of Hellboy both as the B.P.R.D. or either Lobster Johnson, etc - any of them - may prove linked or be to reveal pretty nifty details toward the bigger scheme of stuff (i.e. "the secret history of the world") in rather a big way. So much that any adaptation - especially this new movie presenting itself as remaining faithful to its source material - would need to follow to the point of at least getting things straight I'd presume?

I'm not saying I'm against him being portrayed as close to the comics as possible, I do think that's always for the best. I think there's obvious importance for a character like Baba Yaga to be Russian, given the mythology she comes from. Daimio, though, struck me as an American marine who just happened to be ethnically Japanese (which I found cool). The spirit that possessed him wasn't Japanese in origin or tied to his family, and iirc he had a Chinese guy helping him to control it.

[fred25_ca]

I've been a longtime fan of BPRD. I honestly don't recall him being Japanese being crucial to his character in any significant way. As I recall, he was a hardass military man who happened to be possessed by a South American Jaguar God. Honest question, in what way was his ethnicity crucial to his character?

Haven't read most of these comics in a few years, but from what I remember Daimio's grandmother was the infamous criminal the Crimson Lotus. You can read a bit more about her and her ties to Daimio here: http://hellboy.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Lotus
His family's history with the Supernatural (along with his curse) help explains why he knows so much in the domain and why he makes for such a great leader at the B.P.R.D.
If the new Hellboy movie proves popular, I could see them making a Lobster Johnson movie later on (who fought the Crimson Lotus in the 30's).
The Hellboy universe has such a rich history, it would be too bad to simply ignore it and begin deviating so much from the get go, don't you think? Daimio is one of the most interesting character in modern comic books, and if you are going to bring him to the screen, do it correctly.

[Za Waldo]

But the character is mixed race right? Keanu Reeves is mixed. You can be mixed race and still just look like a white guy. Might actually make that Crimson Lotus reveal more of a surprise.

[Starchild]

Glad to hear you are interested in them. The Hellboy universe can seem daunting when you don't know where to start, but it is actually very simple. Dark Horse has been putting together everything in order. You really only need to get the Hardcovers. The Hellboy Library editions and the B.P.R.D. Omnibus.

You need to start with the first 3 Hellboy Library Editions (that's where it all starts, and it is simply incredible). Here's a link to the first one:
https://www.amazon.com/Hellboy-Libra...ibrary+edition

If you are hooked (as you should be!) after reading the first 3, you have two choices. The series split into 2 branches starting here. Hellboy or B.P.R.D.
There are 4 more volumes of Hellboy library editions (the serie has ended, so volume 7 is the last one). They are all great.

But i'd recommend trying B.P.R.D. after you've read the first 3 Hellboy. The way the B.P.R.D. comics work, there are 3 HUGE arcs. The second arc just ended and the third one just started.
They will all be released in chronological order. The first arc is called Plague of frogs. There are 4 omnibus (alas, the hardcovers are discontinued, but the softcovers are available). Here is a link to the first one:
https://www.amazon.com/B-P-R-D-Plagu...p.r.d.+omnibus

The first Omnibus (of 5) of the second arc (Hell on Earth) is coming out in November.
So, in summary, Hellboy Library Editions 1-3, then B.P.R.D. Plague of frogs Omnibus 1-4, and then Hellboy Library Editions 4-7, and finally B.P.R.D. Hell on Earth Omnibus 1-5 (not out yet).

These are some of the best comics ever made, so you will not regret it!

Here is a great website with details about the Library Editions and the Omnibus:
http://hellboy.wikia.com/wiki/Hellboy_Library_Editions
http://hellboy.wikia.com/wiki/Omnibus_Editions

Thanks for the homework. I will definitely look into some of these. The only thing that I read from The Mignolaverse was three issues of Abe Sapien, which i loved.

[Zodlike]

First off: nothing but respect for Ed Skrein, he is not an a-list guy and giving up a role in a potential franchise takes some guts. I also like that rather than complaining about it he took action, way too many people like to just gripe about things online but never actually do anything to make a difference.

With the being said I do think that it is sad that we are at a point were people online basically complained to the point that he felt obligated to quit, from what the producers of the movie initially said he came in and did a great job in the audition and earned the role. It's not like Ed skrein is a major box office draw so he had to earn the part in the audition and it kinda sucks that he was basically guilt tripped into quitting. While I don't understand why the casting people for the movie weren't looking at actors who more closely resembled the character it still is disappointing that he earned the job and was basically guilt tripped into quitting. I have nothing but respect for him doing what he did but when you look back at last week there were a ton of people saying really bad things about this guy and it turns out he is actually seems like a really decent person.

Secondly I really don't get what the rules are for movie castings anymore, with this role everyone freaked out because ED Skrein does not look like the character, (Which as a comics fan I get, it always annoys me when the cast a character and the actor doesn't in any way resemble the character, yet alot of the same people who complained about this complained when Marvel Cast Danny rand as a guy who looked like danny rand. I agree that actors in comics movies should reflect the comic characters they are portraying but right now it kinda just seems like people pick and choose different arguments to complain about castings. To me it doesn't seem right that when it come to roles like Mordo, Johnny Storm, Heimdall, Perry White, Moneypenny Felix leiter, Valkryie, Jimmy Olson, Liz Allen, MJ, the blue and black ranger and Electro that it was ok to change the character because the actor they picked earned the role in an audition but when it comes to a role like this it was not ok, even though supposedly the actor earned the role in an audition. I understand that white washing is a concern but it seems like people only demand that a character looks like the comic character when it suits their argument and that annoys me.

Nobody is allowed to complain when canonical white characters are portrayed by actors of other races.

Only the reverse, when white men (particularly men) portray 'minority' characters, matters to the racists on the left.

It shouldn't matter either way, but it has been made an issue out of animus.

It's called hypocrisy.

Yes it is.

[regg215]

I think you are making assumptions. How do you know it's the same people complaining? And who says there are "rules"? There are tons of directors, producers, casting directors, etc. making a variety of choices and decisions.



I saw plenty of complaints from people about all those casting choices that you listed with the exception of Felix Leiter (not saying there weren't complaints, just that I didn't see any).

Also in the examples you gave you seem to have done the same thing you're saying others are doing. For example why did you only pick the blue and black rangers? The female rangers are ethnically different as well, not to mention Rita. Not sure why you included MJ since the character of Michelle in Spidey Homecoming isn't Mary Jane.

Cast a white guy in the Ben Daimio role and the one asian character in the movie is gone. Cast a black guy as Heimdall or an asian guy as Reggie Mantle and there are still a million white characters in the movie or tv show. I'm personally perfectly fine with every character looking like they do in the source material, but people need to stop pretending they don't see difference or know the reason (whether you agree with it or not) these producers choose to give non-white actors roles (usually small supporting ones at that) of characters that are white in the source material.

As far as making assumptions about people complaining about the same things it is certainly possible that I did. My main observation is that sites that cover movie and comic news were all up in arms about the iron fist casting and made it seem like casting the character to look like he does in the books was not important but then this role comes up and they act like sticking to the source material is the most important thing. While I personally would like characters to look the way they do in the books, I can certainly understand that if an actor comes in and gives a great audition or if the producers who are making the movie want to go in a different direction. I guess the main thing I don't like is that it seems like some people change their arguments all the time to fit whatever situation. Obviously there are no "rules" with casting it just seems like people really like to be contradictory for the reasons that they bash some casting choices.

As far as the characters that I mentioned, those were just the first ones that came to mind. I was never a power rangers fan so I wasn't sure that they changed all of the rangers and rita or not, I just knew for sure that they did with the black and blue rangers. As far as MJ, as far as I knew from the movie she was mary jane but I am completely willing to admit that I am wrong if that is not the case( regardless of whether she is or not Zendaya did a great job in the role). And while my preference is for characters to look like they do in the books there have been numerous instances where they have made changes that worked out incredibly well.Ben Urich, Perry White, Heimdall, Moneypenny, Felix Leiter and Mordo all come to mind for me as examples of that. And while it hasn't come out yet I cannot imagine that Tessa thompson will be anything less than great in thor ragnarok.


Overall I think that increasing diversity is always important and have no problem with movies/games/comics/ tv/etc.. doing so but I do find it a bit repulsive that people make contradictory arguments based on the situation and make very heavy handed accusations towards people and call them racists, etc, when they don't agree with a casting choice. I get that representation and white washing are real issues and that they need to be looked at, I just don't like that when stuff like this happens people make pretty disgusting assumptions about the character, intent and beliefs of the people involved with the casting and the actors who take the roles.

[abulafia]

i like it when people that are cast vaguely fit the description from the source material.
best fit actor for the role my ass. you won´t pick peter dinklage for thor.
since comic industry has a huge history in a time with different demographics, most characters are outdated.
plz, be creativ, give us new characters! race, gender is just a myth. people will love it when it is good


(that line-up was top notch creativly in the early 80s. rogue, kitty balanced it out later, even by modern standards)