Secret empire 10 spoilers

[jyamen]

Something that should be said. I actually think Spencer is really talented, I just don't think this was the right time to tell a tale of a hydra cap considering our political climate and considering how many of marvels icons had been moved off the table or made barely recognizable. This story, ending and all, falls on editorial. Im not lumping all editorial here, but there's been some serious quality control issues at marvel, story wise, for awhile. Shuffling soft reboots, characters not being written consistently, events that don't deliver (although that's always been an issue I guess) Fresh editorial blood may be needed, people who know marvels history inside and out, people who respect who lines their wallets at the end of the day. This event is the symbolic culmination of Marvels tone deaf hamfisted attitude they've adopted the last couple of years.

[Miles To Go]

Apparently the new issue of Deadpool takes place two days after this

spoilers:

Stevil is imprisoned, and the news media is spinning it as the real Cap is back

end of spoilers

[Moriarty]

This event is the symbolic culmination of Marvels tone deaf hamfisted attitude they've adopted the last couple of years.

well said.

[Rogue Star]

Something that should be said. I actually think Spencer is really talented, I just don't think this was the right time to tell a tale of a hydra cap considering our political climate and considering how many of marvels icons had been moved off the table or made barely recognizable. This story, ending and all, falls on editorial. Im not lumping all editorial here, but there's been some serious quality control issues at marvel, story wise, for awhile. Shuffling soft reboots, characters not being written consistently, events that don't deliver (although that's always been an issue I guess) Fresh editorial blood may be needed, people who know marvels history inside and out, people who respect who lines their wallets at the end of the day. This event is the symbolic culmination of Marvels tone deaf hamfisted attitude they've adopted the last couple of years.

Yup.


Plus 10

[Orbus]

You know Star Wars carrying them, overshipping tactics, variant cover tactics, constant relaunches which result in less and less sale, comic stores have posted pictures of there shelves and dollar bins FULL of Marvel comics so say whatever.

And they can't keep things like Saga, Batman, Monstress on the shelves yet have trouble selling Spider Man and Cap and Iron Man.

Well I edited that out of my comment because I didn't want to hijack the thread about opinions on the last issue with yet another discussion on sales but since you caught it before I deleted that part here goes;

Both the big two overship, have variant covers and tactics to artificially inflate their sales. It seems strange that we only focus on one company doing it at a time and I'm aware that DC was once a target of those kind of complaints but now Marvel is the new target fan ire that we forget that DC does exactly the same. Also relaunches have been a successful tactic to drive sales in the past and again something that the big two both do including Rebirth which in itself is a relaunch but one these kind of opinion pieces are okay with because group think demands we all love Rebirth.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at by mentioning Star Wars. Marvel publishes Star Wars comics so what? It's no different to any other sub line of comics and what seems to be positive handling of the brand should in principal by something to praise about Marvel. Put it this way if Wildstorm characters that DC currently own suddenly became popular and their comics sold would we criticize DC for that. Also Amazing Spider-Man is routinely Marvel's top seller in the same way Batman is to DC. Cap and Iron Man have never been top tier characters in publishing and just because they are huge in movies now doesn't change that we shouldn't expect them to sell anymore that Superman or Wonder Woman in the current market despite the article thinking they should because they huge in movies if their comment on Guardians of the Galaxy is indicative of how they feel.

Likewise dismissing trade and digital sales as the article does is also very convenient. The article acknowledges some Marvel titles sell very well in other formats but brushes it off as it's unimportant. Do you think Marvel cares how they sell? As a business anything that gets them sales they are going to go for especially in some cases as it can make them more money than direct market sales. That's the problem with people venting their frustrations with Marvel's creative direction as concern for it's commercial prospects.

[crimsonspider89]

Well I edited that out of my comment because I didn't want to hijack the thread about opinions on the last issue with yet another discussion on sales but since you caught it before I deleted that part here goes;

Both the big two overship, have variant covers and tactics to artificially inflate their sales. It seems strange that we only focus on one company doing it at a time and I'm aware that DC was once a target of those kind of complaints but now Marvel is the new target fan ire that we forget that DC does exactly the same. Also relaunches have been a successful tactic to drive sales in the past and again something that the big two both do including Rebirth which in itself is a relaunch but one these kind of opinion pieces are okay with because group think demands we all love Rebirth.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at by mentioning Star Wars. Marvel publishes Star Wars comics so what? It's no different to any other sub line of comics and what seems to be positive handling of the brand should in principal by something to praise about Marvel. Put it this way if Wildstorm characters that DC currently own suddenly became popular and their comics sold would we criticize DC for that. Also Amazing Spider-Man is routinely Marvel's top seller in the same way Batman is to DC. Cap and Iron Man have never been top tier characters in publishing and just because they are huge in movie doesn't change that we shouldn't expect them to sell anymore that Superman or Wonder Woman in the current market despite the article thinking they should because they huge in movies.

DC doesn't force the comic store to order so many of comics to get variants anymore.

Subtract the SW sales from Marvel and see how far they fall.

Stores are being shipped two for every one book they are ordering by Marvel which they usually order half more than what they can sell.

Look at Gillen/Fraction IM sales compared to Bendis and look at Remender/Brubaker's Cap sales compared to Spender.

ASM is selling only about 50k where Superman and Batman are selling at about 60k plus.

Marvel does #1 which give them a false boost, then they drop. Just look at Luke Cage and America. Both are selling less than 15k but debuted in 65k plus.

[Captain M]

So is Black Widow dead?

[Del torro]

-In a flashback, it is shown Madame Hydra used the cosmic cube fragment in the initial Mjolnir lifting to change the inscription from “worthy” to “strongest”

If changing the inscription is enough to make Hydra cap worthy and unworthy, then changing the inscription from "He" to she may be the real reason why Thor Odinson isn't worthy

[jyamen]

yup...sorry (regarding if black widow is dead)


EDIT: We all know that death wont stick for long

[Panfoot]

Well I edited that out of my comment because I didn't want to hijack the thread about opinions on the last issue with yet another discussion on sales but since you caught it before I deleted that part here goes;

Both the big two overship, have variant covers and tactics to artificially inflate their sales. It seems strange that we only focus on one company doing it at a time and I'm aware that DC was once a target of those kind of complaints but now Marvel is the new target fan ire that we forget that DC does exactly the same. Also relaunches have been a successful tactic to drive sales in the past and again something that the big two both do including Rebirth which in itself is a relaunch but one these kind of opinion pieces are okay with because group think demands we all love Rebirth.

People dogpile on Marvel for it because they do it so much more. Rebirth is the first renumbering relaunch for DC since the New 52 back in 2011, Marvel has relaunched several times in the past few years(heck some books like Spider Gwen have even had multiple #1s in the same year). They both do it, but DC has gotten a lot better over of the past couple of years about listening to those complaints while Marvel just seemed to double down on everything.

[Moriarty]

So is Black Widow dead?

maybe? probably? no one knows.

[Captain M]

maybe? probably? no one knows.

It's funny because she is one of the few female characters that can have a solo with sales that's not horrible.

So of course Marvel is not giving her a solo

[Moriarty]

It's funny because she is one of the few female characters that can have a solo with sales that's not horrible.

So of course Marvel is not giving her a solo

yep. gotta keep pushing those Captain Marvel comics that no one is buying instead.

[Derek Metaltron]

Have a cosmic cube and then DON'T use it to bring back anyone. Real smart heroes. Not just Rick and Natasha but also Rhodes, Bruce, Xavier, Logan, Reed, Sue and the like.

[Wiccan]

Have a cosmic cube and then DON'T use it to bring back anyone. Real smart heroes. Not just Rick and Natasha but also Rhodes, Bruce, Xavier, Logan, Reed, Sue and the like.

It was really weird cause Kobik changed everything but Natasha and Rick and then they made a point about how "there was still casualties" or whatever and I could think was that Kobik was like "Haha, nope. Those bitches gotta stay dead".