Secret empire 10 spoilers

[scribbleMind]

I'm confused about the way you guys are using "real Cap." If Hydra Cap still exists, isn't he still THE original Cap? And good Cap is a brand new Cap, a manifestation of Cap made real by Kobik? As such, the heroic Cap would be the false Cap, right?

[jyamen]

I still find it "sadly" hilarious that the ending is pretty much exactly as all of us called it at the beginning of this thing. Despite editorial shouting in a megaphone that Kobik and the cosmic cube wouldn't be some cure all...it ended up being exactly that. And yes, people died, but the importants ones will be back, we all know it. Marvels formulas are completely predictable

[Rogue Star]

So is Black Widow dead?

Yup. Time for Red Widow.

[Moriarty]

I'm confused about the way you guys are using "real Cap." If Hydra Cap still exists, isn't he still THE original Cap? And good Cap is a brand new Cap, a manifestation of Cap made real by Kobik? As such, the heroic Cap would be the false Cap, right?

i think you have it backwards. Hydra Cap is a manifestation made real by Kobik. Real Cap was effectively sealed away while Hydra Cap took his place in reality.

[Orbus]

DC doesn't force the comic store to order so many of comics to get variants anymore.

They still do shed loads of variants though as well as all kinds of tactics to increase sales. I may not like it but don't blame them for this, they are a business. Only time tells if it's the right thing to do

Subtract the SW sales from Marvel and see how far they fall.

So? Star Wars and Marvel are owned by the same company and Star Wars is part of Marvel's publishing line and from all indications they handle it well. I don't see why Star Wars comics are viewed as exception. It's like how for a while people argued the same about if subtract Batman and see how much DC sells.

Look at Gillen/Fraction IM sales compared to Bendis and look at Remender/Brubaker's Cap sales compared to Spender.

Those are all examples from years ago (and correct me if I'm wrong but even then they weren't Marvel's top seller So) sales are down across the board. I mean compare Rebirths sales with the New 52 and you'd think the former was a flop.

ASM is selling only about 50k where Superman and Batman are selling at about 60k plus.

That sounds screwy. If Amazing Spider-Man sells less than Superman then why does the former routinely top the sales chart.

Marvel does #1 which give them a false boost, then they drop. Just look at Luke Cage and America. Both are selling less than 15k but debuted in 65k plus.

Yeah but when DC does a new #1 it's not to get a boost in sales at all, right?

So is Black Widow dead?

There's a panel that suggests she is and a panel that suggests both she and Rick Jones are alive. My guess is she's alive but gone underground.

[SKJoker]

I had my fun.

I thought it was a goodish issue for what it was.

Secret Wars was better.

Very little will touch Secret Wars, IMO.

At any rate, I enjoyed Secret Empire. The ending wasn't amazing to me - I would have preferred a mental battle/debate like Superior Spider-Man did. More about ideals than "real Cap comes to beat up Fake Cap." When I heard that Cap's ideals would save the day, this isn't what I expected. Figured it would have been a better fight than... this.

All the same, excellent event that tripped over the landing a bit.

[Kurolegacy]

I'm confused about the way you guys are using "real Cap." If Hydra Cap still exists, isn't he still THE original Cap? And good Cap is a brand new Cap, a manifestation of Cap made real by Kobik? As such, the heroic Cap would be the false Cap, right?

No Captain Hydra is a fake that had been placed in Cap's place by Kobik. As Kobik stated when talking to Cap, she created Captain Hydra, but as a result, rendered the true Cap to be a disembodied entity within her mind. In the end though, Steve and Bucky gave her the courage to manifest the true Cap in the real world.

[Panfoot]

I'm confused about the way you guys are using "real Cap." If Hydra Cap still exists, isn't he still THE original Cap? And good Cap is a brand new Cap, a manifestation of Cap made real by Kobik? As such, the heroic Cap would be the false Cap, right?

Won't be able to get my copy until Friday, but yeah, every summary i've read it kinda seems like that. It seems like while the Kobik's memories Steve will be "the" Steve now, I guess the Hydra Steve is still *technically* the original Steve. This is kind of reminding me of the whole The Crossing/Teen Tony mess and how in the end they kinda just brushed it under the rug for Heroes Return.

[Miles To Go]

Very little will touch Secret Wars, IMO.

The original Secret Wars maybe, but not Hickman's version. IMO, the 2015 version is immensely overrated and had just as many dumb moments (a leftover hamburger being the reason Miles is in the main Marvel Universe? Really?). Virtually the only good things that came out of it were Renew Your Vows and Doom's redemption arc.

[Stars & Stripes]

Yup. Time for Red Widow.

I'm surprised that she's been largely missing in action.

[Panfoot]

No Captain Hydra is a fake that had been placed in Cap's place by Kobik. As Kobik stated when talking to Cap, she created Captain Hydra, but as a result, rendered the true Cap to be a disembodied entity within her mind. In the end though, Steve and Bucky gave her the courage to manifest the true Cap in the real world.

Okay, that seems a bit better...though now that makes me think of the whole "It's totally the real Steve" PR spin they gave when the first issue of Captain America: Steve Rogers released. Oh Marvel...

[scribbleMind]

No Captain Hydra is a fake that had been placed in Cap's place by Kobik. As Kobik stated when talking to Cap, she created Captain Hydra, but as a result, rendered the true Cap to be a disembodied entity within her mind. In the end though, Steve and Bucky gave her the courage to manifest the true Cap in the real world.

It's just odd, cause this is generally not how reality warping works. It actually reminds me more of the time bullet thing, with Caps consciousness wondering through history. Granted, Cap has been consciously split from his body so often, maybe he's just resistant to these types of changes to his person. Instead of actually changing the way one would expect, he just ejects.

[MaxQuick]

This was really bad - this issue in particular, but the whole event too. The ending felt MEGA rushed and horribly anti-climactic. The whole thing just felt like an exercise in nihilism.

I'm actually kind of upset with myself for buying the whole thing.

[jyamen]

Okay, that seems a bit better...though now that makes me think of the whole "It's totally the real Steve" PR spin they gave when the first issue of Captain America: Steve Rogers released. Oh Marvel...

your memory is correct. I believe they changed it because, yknow, fans went nuclear over it

[richsaint]

yep. gotta keep pushing those Captain Marvel comics that no one is buying instead.

WHAT? SHES THE MOST POPULAR CHARACTER IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE! Because....she....killed...ish....IronMan?......