So the vanishing point is pretty much a joke now right? SE 10 spoilers

[cc008]

Except Natasha is set to appear in the Iceman solo for a Champions reunion arc as a part of Legacy.

Sina Grace has said that the Champions reunion in Iceman is to mourn Nat's death. https://comicsverse.com/iceman-sina-...flamecon-2017/

[Kurolegacy]

Sina Grace has said that the Champions reunion in Iceman is to mourn Nat's death. https://comicsverse.com/iceman-sina-...flamecon-2017/

So yet another case of the solicits flat out lying about the content. Why am I not surprised?

[Mike_Murdock]

What was the solicit? Was it designed to avoid spoilers for Secret Empire?

[Kurolegacy]

What was the solicit? Was it designed to avoid spoilers for Secret Empire?

ICEMAN #6
Written by SINA GRACE
Penciled by ROBERT GILL
Cover by KEVIN WADA
CHAMPIONS REASSEMBLED
ICEMAN, one of the most powerful mutants within the Marvel Universe, discovers his powers and his outlook on life evolving. He needs to lead the charge with a team who stand proudly by his side in the war to “protect those who can’t protect themselves.” Hercules, Ghost Rider, Black Widow, Darkstar, and Angel re-unite with Marvel’s fearless frozen fighter setting ICEMAN on an all-new path. As more unexpected enemies emerge, can Bobby mature into the warrior he’s destined to become? Hope he survives the experience!

It says right in the solicit that Black Widow is among the group that re-uinites and she's featured on the cover.

[theoneandonly]

Thinking of BW Spencer could have had belova back working for hydra and it could have led Natasha having a generations one shot with belova. After all who said the person going back had to be on the good side and it could have shown that kobik still is confused about hydra explaining why she just hasn't erased hydra cap completely.

[jackolover]

I'm still scratching my head here over what the Vanishing pointless is? Money grabbing opportunity seems to be the only answer.

[dzub]

I'm still scratching my head here over what the Vanishing pointless is? Money grabbing opportunity seems to be the only answer.

it's where people with event fatigue vanish perhaps?

[Prof. Warren]

I'm still scratching my head here over what the Vanishing pointless is? Money grabbing opportunity seems to be the only answer.

If the books were not of high quality, sure. But aside from the somewhat mediocre Hulk issue, they've all been impressive.

This week's Iron Man issue, for example, was a lovely piece of work. Beautiful art and a great look forward into a more hopeful future for the MU.

Definitely not some cynical cash grab. But if you feel it's not worth your money, you're free to pass on it.

[JKtheMac]

I think Legacy is partly an attempt to break the event cycle, and the Vanishing Point idea is just an excuse to pave the way into Legacy. Ironically Secret Empire seems to have sold better than expected, because Generations was supposed to pick up the slack.

When Marvel explicitly stated they were taking a break from such large events, I am not sure how many people know how the event cycle has been working. For a start, we keep seeing Generations and Legacy talked about as an event, which clearly they are not. What Marvel are referring to is the every two year, grand crossover event. Not even Civil War II is quite this scale. Summer events have been on a two year cycle for a while. They necessitate a whole load of build-up and effort, and tie-up a lot of comic book real estate for months. They also have had diminishing returns. They sell well, but they no longer create quite as much enthusiasm.

The lesser years in the two year cycle always seem to end up with less well conceived crossovers, that increase this cynicism, and the readership are probably not supposed to notice the difference. So my guess is Marvel themselves, in the form of the editors and writers, are taking a year's break from events. Forget the off-year crossovers, allow the main books to run without that major disruption for a while. In other words, go back to Now! The events and crossovers between AvX and Secret Wars were not as disruptive, and occasionally just emerged naturally from enthusiasm by writers for what others were doing.

Reading between the lines CWII was an attempt to salvage a not very inspired event and even then may have backfired. Halting a number of character arcs just as the writers were building the post Secret Wars universe. We didn't get anything quite like this in 2014, and IMO we shouldn't have in 2016. It looks like we won't in 2018, and maybe that bodes well for whatever is planned in 2019, when hopefully the Legacy stories and smaller crossovers will have built to something meaningful and worthy of an event that we can get behind.

[jackolover]

If the books were not of high quality, sure. But aside from the somewhat mediocre Hulk issue, they've all been impressive.

This week's Iron Man issue, for example, was a lovely piece of work. Beautiful art and a great look forward into a more hopeful future for the MU.

Definitely not some cynical cash grab. But if you feel it's not worth your money, you're free to pass on it.

It's not just that. The books are okay as far as they go. What it appears though, is Generations isn't organically sound. It's thrown in haphazardly tacked on the end of Secret Empire for no reason, that I can see. What is it there for? Kobik can't tell us, nor Nick Spencer.

[Prof. Warren]

It's not just that. The books are okay as far as they go. What it appears though, is Generations isn't organically sound. It's thrown in haphazardly tacked on the end of Secret Empire for no reason, that I can see. What is it there for? Kobik can't tell us, nor Nick Spencer.

It seems fairly clear to me.

Within the comic universe, after the acrimony of recent times, Kobik bestows these time-tossed encounters as a gift to several key players in the MU as a way for Legacy heroes to understand and value their classic counterparts.

In real world terms, it's to set the stage for Legacy by showing how the classic and Legacy characters can work in tandem and establish that the MU going forward will be a more unified place.

Was the set-up for it in SE something of a flimsy springboard? I'd say yes. It's basically Kobik giving everyone a special moment. But as the books themselves have been very good - some of my favorite single issues this year, in fact - I'm fine with it.

[jackolover]

It seems fairly clear to me.

Within the comic universe, after the acrimony of recent times, Kobik bestows these time-tossed encounters as a gift to several key players in the MU as a way for Legacy heroes to understand and value their classic counterparts.

In real world terms, it's to set the stage for Legacy by showing how the classic and Legacy characters can work in tandem and establish that the MU going forward will be a more unified place.

Was the set-up for it in SE something of a flimsy springboard? I'd say yes. It's basically Kobik giving everyone a special moment. But as the books themselves have been very good - some of my favorite single issues this year, in fact - I'm fine with it.

There is Acrimony, so Kobik gifts them all a random encounter, to do what? Smooth over that acrimony? Is that what Generations did? Because if that was the intention, it was a very childish aim. We should have got Kobik star jumping and shouting. "Hey! Everybody should be happy now!". But nothing.

[JKtheMac]

There is Acrimony, so Kobik gifts them all a random encounter, to do what? Smooth over that acrimony? Is that what Generations did? Because if that was the intention, it was a very childish aim. We should have got Kobik star jumping and shouting. "Hey! Everybody should be happy now!". But nothing.

You are perhaps overstating what Generations is trying to achieve. In no way are they supposed to be resolving anything. That would be crazy. The current status-quo of each character is not going to change in a side story that is not part of the overall narrative in the individual books.

All this is trying to do is provide context for the characters, and give those readers that are either not reading those books, or have not been focused on the legacy themes that each of the books contain, some understanding of how the books relate to the more traditional heroes.

There is so much chatter about how Marvel have somehow lost their way, or are disrespectful of legacy. This is Marvel's response. A response based upon a story and current status-quo. Legacy will continue the stories that were already being told, and the Generations stories provide a key to what those stories are about.

[Prof. Warren]

You are perhaps overstating what Generations is trying to achieve. In no way are they supposed to be resolving anything. That would be crazy. The current status-quo of each character is not going to change in a side story that is not part of the overall narrative in the individual books.

All this is trying to do is provide context for the characters, and give those readers that are either not reading those books, or have not been focused on the legacy themes that each of the books contain, some understanding of how the books relate to the more traditional heroes.

There is so much chatter about how Marvel have somehow lost their way, or are disrespectful of legacy. This is Marvel's response. A response based upon a story and current status-quo. Legacy will continue the stories that were already being told, and the Generations stories provide a key to what those stories are about.

Well said.

The Generations one-shots seem very clearly to have a similar function both within the comic universe and the real world - to unify the classic and Legacy heroes and to be a thematic bridge between SE and Legacy. They're not there to bring back the classic heroes - events in their own titles will soon be doing that, as we can see from the upcoming solicits for books like Iron Man and Thor - but they're there to underline the fact that the past and the present are both valued.

Fans often say "why can't we have both the Legacy and the classic heroes?" and Generations is a step in that direction.

[TheFerg714]

What Marvel are referring to is the every two year, grand crossover event. Not even Civil War II is quite this scale. Summer events have been on a two year cycle for a while. They necessitate a whole load of build-up and effort, and tie-up a lot of comic book real estate for months. They also have had diminishing returns. They sell well, but they no longer create quite as much enthusiasm.

The difference between SE and CW2 is negligible. They both take up 3-6 months from each of their tie-ins and have around 100 issues total, including all the extras.
2017- SE
2016- CW2
2015- Secret Wars
2014- Both AXIS and Original Sin had a **** ton of tie-ins.
2013- Even Infinity had quite a few tie-ins, although not to the same level as some of these other line-wide events.
2012- AvX

So what exactly are you getting at here? From my perspective, Marvel is doing too much every single year, and if their definition of 'event' is "every two year, grand crossover event," then I do not have my hopes up for Marvel legitimately slowing down their event schedule at all.