It's a DC Comics Crisis!

[MajorHoy]

Not to turn this into the Identity Crisis thread but is the big problem the rape? The amount of murder that takes place in these stories is atrocious compared to that. I understand it's a very very touchy subject and a subject that I don't take lightly at all, but is it that shocking? I found The Killing Joke much more disturbing.

Killing Joke didn't start out as supposedly being in-continuity, so it got an early pass on some of that.
As for "the rape" revealed in Identity Crisis, that was just adding insult to injury with who was killed and why.
(As for all the deaths, Crisis on Infinite Earths at least seemed to have some shred of dignity in those deaths, as opposed to things like gutting Phantom Lady and knocking Pantha's head off and having it go flying away in Infinite Crisis.)

[Jim Kelly]

It was COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS that really turned me off--and that one panel showing Blue Beetle's brains being blown out. That was just grotesque shock for no good purpose.

I guess it served the argument advanced in INFINITE CRISIS itself that the DCU had become too dark--which this event was supposed to remedy. But they kept showing dark stuff and exploiting it to appeal to readers who like that sort of thing.

The way I saw it at the time, there was no way that they were really going to reverse this trend and make comics light and fun again, because if the darkness sold a lot of comics then they were just going to keep doing that. So INFINITE CRISIS was selling a bill of goods.

[BatmanJones]

In great fiction terrible things happen to characters all the time. When I see people freaking out about Identity Crisis it makes me think they're blurring the lines between fiction and reality. They're angry because terrible things happen to characters they love. That is the essence of most great tragedy.

Brad Meltzer wrote the preeminent 'grown-up' JLA story. That fans took it so badly is a testament to how well told it was. It was supposed to hurt and it did. So much so that people that refused ever to read it are writing diatribes about what was wrong with it. I'm sorry, but that's a bit absurd. If you've read it, complain away. If you haven't, you don't get to say what was "wrong" with it.

I've read and re-read Identity Crisis more than any other DC Comics story and, wrt comics, I only read DC and I read a ton of it. About $35-50 worth each Wednesday for over 40 years (I'm 48).

Justice League, through good times and bad, has always been my favorite title. It's the only title I loved enough to collect ALL the back issues as a child and I had a complete collection when my house burned down when I was 12 and I lost all my comics.

And this DC Comics/JLA freak loved Identity Crisis better than ANY other JLA story and it isn't even close. Meltzer treated us like adults when he told that heart-rending story. Some fans didn't want to be treated that way. But if nothing horrible ever happens to the characters we love, what are the stakes after all?

I was devastated by what happened to Sue and seeing Ray Palmer grow tinier and tinier until he had disappeared at the end of the story was equally moving.

When I have a friend that finds comic books dumb or for kids, I give them Identity Crisis and it cures them of that problem. They realize when reading it that superhero comics can be moving and tragic and can be great fiction for adults. And that's what ID Crisis was.

I doubt there will ever be a better JLA story. To those that can't get over what Meltzer did to Sue Dibny, I feel compelled to remind you she's not real. Meltzer didn't rape her and neither did Dr. Light. It was a story. People react as if Meltzer did the raping and murdering himself. He didn't. He wrote an engrossing, disturbing, upsetting, sophisticated story about the characters we loved as children but he wrote it for adults. Would that more people could distinguish between fact and fiction. It's such a shame there's so much hatred for this story. Those that refused to read it didn't punish anyone but themselves.

[Assam]

snip

I've told you my complete reasoning for hating the story before, so I'll just leave my main points in bullet form.

- Poorly written mystery

- The true start of the unnecessary darkening of the entire DCU.

- Dark and bleak for dark and bleak's sake, with Meltzer not actually having anything meaningful to say.

- It made it impossible to look at ANY story from the Sattelite era onward with these characters without having this POS in mind.

- On a similar note, the fact that NONE of the characters involved with the mind-wipe ever thought about or talked to each other about these events makes this story not make ANY sense.

- The unnecessary and unrelated to the main plot deaths of Jack Drake and Firestorm.

- The god awfully stupid Deathstroke fight.

- Poor character motivation on the part of Jean. (As well as the mind-wiping JLers)

- Nonsensical plot elements.

- And yes, what it did to the Dibneys.

[Starchild]

In great fiction terrible things happen to characters all the time. When I see people freaking out about Identity Crisis it makes me think they're blurring the lines between fiction and reality. They're angry because terrible things happen to characters they love. That is the essence of most great tragedy.

Brad Meltzer wrote the preeminent 'grown-up' JLA story. That fans took it so badly is a testament to how well told it was. It was supposed to hurt and it did. So much so that people that refused ever to read it are writing diatribes about what was wrong with it. I'm sorry, but that's a bit absurd. If you've read it, complain away. If you haven't, you don't get to say what was "wrong" with it.

I've read and re-read Identity Crisis more than any other DC Comics story and, wrt comics, I only read DC and I read a ton of it. About $35-50 worth each Wednesday for over 40 years (I'm 48).

Justice League, through good times and bad, has always been my favorite title. It's the only title I loved enough to collect ALL the back issues as a child and I had a complete collection when my house burned down when I was 12 and I lost all my comics.

And this DC Comics/JLA freak loved Identity Crisis better than ANY other JLA story and it isn't even close. Meltzer treated us like adults when he told that heart-rending story. Some fans didn't want to be treated that way. But if nothing horrible ever happens to the characters we love, what are the stakes after all?

I was devastated by what happened to Sue and seeing Ray Palmer grow tinier and tinier until he had disappeared at the end of the story was equally moving.

When I have a friend that finds comic books dumb or for kids, I give them Identity Crisis and it cures them of that problem. They realize when reading it that superhero comics can be moving and tragic and can be great fiction for adults. And that's what ID Crisis was.

I doubt there will ever be a better JLA story. To those that can't get over what Meltzer did to Sue Dibny, I feel compelled to remind you she's not real. Meltzer didn't rape her and neither did Dr. Light. It was a story. People react as if Meltzer did the raping and murdering himself. He didn't. He wrote an engrossing, disturbing, upsetting, sophisticated story about the characters we loved as children but he wrote it for adults. Would that more people could distinguish between fact and fiction. It's such a shame there's so much hatred for this story. Those that refused to read it didn't punish anyone but themselves.

This post makes me appreciate the storyline more. Thanks. Whenever my friends and family say that comic books are goofy and childish. This is one of the books that i introduce them to and it completely changes their mind on the medium. It'll ALWAYS remain one of my favorite stories ever. Zero Hour is my least favorite.

[Icefan]

- And yes, what it did to the Dibneys.

I hated how it retroactively made their friendship with Kimiyo Hoshi into something utterly bizarre.

[Kaijudo]

Identity Crisis is the worst book DC ever put out, in my opinion. There are bigger obvious issues, like the needless rape of Sue and the questionable morality of the League members, but the thing I hated that doesn't get addressed too much is the way it flushed years of development for some characters down the toilet, saying it was all part of the League's meddling. And by those characters, I mean villains. Guys like the Trickster and Heat Wave, who had grown and developed over the years, to a point where they saw the errors of their ways in the crime racket, were suddenly brainwashed victims of the League. And Dr. Light, the silly, incompetent villain who was always good for a laugh in a superhero story...well, THAT was all gone. It was like anything that was fun or showed a lightening of characters had to be done away with for seemingly no other reason than the idea that villains would NEVER do that.

For all the claims of the book being "grown up" and "mature," I counter it's actually immature and juvenile in the worst sense of the words. Yes, it's all dark and moody with bad stuff happening to good people, but it's written with an irresponsibility in attempts to be "edgy" and "cool" without a story/structure that warrants and supports it. It's darkness for the sake of darkness, painting a terrible story with shades of the worst "grim n' gritty" impulses in the hopes that it distracts from the cracks in the foundation. It's the superhero comic as snuff film.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I have read them all, and recently have sold most of them.

While the original Crisis gave me a headache (I HATE the multiverse), in the end having one easier to understand universe was so much better. Zero Hour sought to fix the mistakes they made along the way since Crisis. It didn't do a great job of this, but at least it tried. I was very happy with the timelines presented for us to have though during the event in each #0.

Identity, as mentioned before, brought a darkening to the DCU and I still think it's here today. Example: reading the War of Jokes and Riddles, I don't think King understands who the Riddler is, he's not a mass murderer like the Joker, that much I know.

Infinite Crisis? What was the point? Other than to satisfy someones hard on for the silver age. Start of the return of the Multiverse and started to sour me. OYL was the start of the end for me.

Final Crisis was headache inducing like many Morrison titles, but I still enjoyed it. Completely unnecessary for Barry to come back though. Craps on the most heroic death in comics history in my opinion.

I quit reading comics soon after because of money with third baby on the way and my growing unhappiness to the changes in the DCU and many of my favorite characters. Only have I now gotten back into comics as one of my daughters has taking a liking to them. I pretty much only read Batman though.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Guys like the Trickster and Heat Wave, who had grown and developed over the years, to a point where they saw the errors of their ways in the crime racket, were suddenly brainwashed victims of the League.

Uh, when was THAT ever established? I've read it like at least three times (as well as the the companion JLA story) and I cannot remember where it established that. Maybe that's just my memory blanking, but I was sure it only said that the Leaguers would just remove the knowledge of their own' secret identities from the villains' minds. Dr. Light was supposedly the first and only time they ever tried to change someone's personality.

[Kaijudo]

Uh, when was THAT ever established? I've read it like at least three times (as well as the the companion JLA story) and I cannot remember where it established that. Maybe that's just my memory blanking, but I was sure it only said that the Leaguers would just remove the knowledge of their own' secret identities from the villains' minds. Dr. Light was supposedly the first and only time they ever tried to change someone's personality.

This is my bad...that was fallout in other books tying into IC at the time (in this case, Johns's FLASH). In retrospect I should technically be mad about other writers jumping on the bandwagon and using the IC gimmick as a device to undo the characters' growth over the years, vs. IC itself. Although that doesn't change any of my overall feelings of the mini. I think other villains included Catwoman. I know there were more, but I'd need to look it up and see who else.

[Thor-Ul]

Uh, when was THAT ever established? I've read it like at least three times (as well as the the companion JLA story) and I cannot remember where it established that. Maybe that's just my memory blanking, but I was sure it only said that the Leaguers would just remove the knowledge of their own' secret identities from the villains' minds. Dr. Light was supposedly the first and only time they ever tried to change someone's personality.

That was stablished in Flash: The secret of Barry Allen story, which leads later to rouges war.

And returning to the crisis stories...

The "Crisis" moniker usually wa asociated to multiverse stories in the justice league of america title, starting with "Crisis in earth two" "Crisis on earth-three" "Crisis on earth X" and so, until Crisis on infinite earths.

And yes, Zero Hour always had the epigraph "Crisis in time". I still have the original issues.
And I must add than Metal could be considered an unoffcial crisis too.

[j9ac9k]

In great fiction terrible things happen to characters all the time. When I see people freaking out about Identity Crisis it makes me think they're blurring the lines between fiction and reality. They're angry because terrible things happen to characters they love. That is the essence of most great tragedy.

1 - I already offered my opinion on "ID" several posts ago, so that'd be my counter argument to your incorrect assertions.
2 - I could not have cared less about Sue Dibney. She meant nothing to me and my criticism of the story had nothing to do with that.
3 - "Great" tragedies usually at least build the characters into ones we love before doing terrible things to them. Comics are different in that someone else can crap all over a character that others have spent years making beloved. That doesn't equal good writing.

[Jim Kelly]

Off the path of the thread, but Sue and Ralph Dibny were and always will be my favourite comic book couple. Ralph is a double five, Jimmy Olsen is a double five (called himself Agent Double-5) and I'm a double five--our first names and our last names have five letters (James being my official first name). Likewise Bruce Wayne and Barry Allen. Five is my lucky number.

I blame Walt Disney for the fact that comic book fans don't know how to spell Dibny. Believe me, I hate when people drop an extra e into my surname and it happens all the time.

[Elmo]

Original Crisis will always be the best for me, amazing story with amazing art despite being the end of one of my favorite eras in DC Comics.

Final Crisis is up there for me as well. Didn't care much for the others. Entertaining schlock at best, confusing mess at worst.

I have to give credit to Infinite Crisis though; without it we wouldn't have 52, which in my opinion is one of the best series DC has ever published. There was also the One Year Later branding which brought us some really great stories, I found Green Arrow's to be the best. DC's attempt to set up a rivalry between him and Deathstroke was really fun, I was totally on board even though it didn't end up going anywhere. Face the Face was also cool with Harvey Dent apparently reforming (but not really) .

[CryNotWolf]

Final Crisis is by far the best, but you have to put far more work than with the others.

Identity Crisis is by far the worst. Characters acting wildly OOC and a mystery that fails in nearly every regard. It was only "entertaining" in how disgusting it was. It **** all over the Silver Age and to me it just seemed downright hateful with the way Meltzer treated not only Sue Dibny and Jean Loring, but just about every single damn character in the book. As if he couldn't stand the idea that heroes are heroes, that they don't all fail so mind-numbingly and horribly as he thinks people should. It's probably why they all acted like complete idiots throughout the story. Like he thinks the JUSTICE LEAGUE would ever need to have an argument about whether or not to mind-rape someone. I mean from the early sequence where Meltzer so conveniently set up the infamous rape scene, where Dr. Light somehow sneaks onto the Watchtower off-page, which was for some reason completely abandoned except for Sue and was left without any kind of defense systems, when the Justice League (who had access to instant teleportation) took so damn long to respond when they knew Sue was the only other soul on the Tower, and then spent far more time trying to get away with as long and graphic a rape scene as he possibly could instead of bothering to explain anything...I knew what Meltzer was all about. Why work at all when you can use the brutal rape and murder of one of the sweetest characters in fiction as a way to make people pay attention? He basically spat in the face of everything that makes superhero comics so great, and idiots ate it up like there was no tomorrow. "Superman only hears what wants to hear" is one of the most infuriating things I've ever read in a comic to this day.

I agree with Grant Morrison, who said that the book just felt completely wrong and horribly broken.

Even Meltzer's JLA run, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman just felt like a bunch of wierdos in costume playing around in an overpriced treehouse, picking out members to invite to their Cool Kidz Club. They certainly didn't come off as the world's greatest superheroes. Very rarely did Meltzer's JLA feel like the damn Justice League. McDuffie's run, which directly followed it, was 100x better even though it was curtailed before its time due to haranguing by editorial meddling.

I know it's silly, but thinking about it gets me worked up. I can't stand when people try and defend Identity Crisis. I'm so thankful DC stopped giving him work.