Revamp a Hero....

[Michael Watkins]

Zero Hunter's villain post has made me curious what people would do with the marvel heroes that they consider to be "scrubs." they are just as vulnerable to bad storytelling. so who would you fix? and how would you fix them.

rules: I'm flexible. but, please, try not to rely on simply killing off existing characters and giving their names to new people (if you can help it).

[Michael Watkins]

Sentry needs to be revamped from a schizophrenic into a different personality.

relatively easy to do. most of what we've seen is the Void. and he's so crazy that he thinks that he's the Sentry. does the Marvel Universe really have room for an uncomplicated superman type, though? Hyperion hasn't done so hot.

I think they also need to revamp the whole Fantastic Four.

how would you do it?

[Crimz]

I've said how I'd revamp the Fantastic Four ad nauseam.

The Thing - His personality is great, just make him stronger and no more self pity over being the Thing. That plotpoint has become overused.
Mr. Fantastic - Less magical genius and less screentime on FF books. Make him stop treating the team like kids and more like equals.
Human Torch - More mature, focus more on his mechanical skills while also making it more obvious that he loves being a superhero. (I'd also make him bi, but I can also live without it)
Invisible Woman - Make her a doctor/surgeon and more involved in the Marvel Universe away from the team. Have her love being an adventurer.

Here are some other characters:

Nightcrawler - More swashbuckler than over-religious priest. Have him be the emotional heart of the X-Men as he should be and be better integrated into the story. He shouldn't just be there as glorified wallpaper *cough* X-Men: Gold *cough*

Storm - The X-franchise needs to look at the Black Panther books to see how Storm should be done. it's the best she's been in years.

[Michael Watkins]

Delroy Garrett jr.

*shakes head*

it's rare that I like a character and don't like their origin. but the current 3-D Man has a (imo) really unfortunate intro. know how to make people hate a character who is also a minority? have them constantly remind you that they are a minority by aggressively proclaiming the Avengers to be racist while wearing traditionally African colors, having the name 'Delroy,' and a 90s flat top haircut. then make sure that his powerset sounds like an amped up version of Captain America's but displays as a weaker version of Quicksilver, Spider-man, and any superstrong character's powers. oh and make him a disgraced athlete who used steroids. so not only is he an affirmative action case with a chip on his shoulder. he's also a cheater. well, this started as wanting to revamp him. but I actually kind of want to erase him. anyways...

my take. Odell Garrett jr. comes from a military family. his father had a grudge against superheroes and discouraged his son from idolizing them (even if Odell did secretly look up to guys like luke cage, falcon, etc). Odell's a talented high school athlete but enlists after graduating. he's injured badly while intelligence tasking. he has trouble readjusting to civilian life but does eventually compete in the paralympics. those triune aliens, posing as government scientists, promise to make Odell better; with his service as payment (as the new 3-D Man). they want him to infiltrate the Avengers to find and eliminate an alien infiltrator. this way, 3-D Man still enters the team with a great deal of distrust (and his father's prejudice against supertypes). the Triune aliens intend for the Avengers to be destroyed from within. and they tamper with 3-D Man's powers to make him suspect different Avengers of duplicity. Ultimately, Odell has to learn to listen to his own intuition and focus his powers. he would also have to learn to ask others for guidance; to fully exploit his abilities. he was chosen for a reason. 3-D Man's powers amplify what is already there. Odell was already perceptive, able to strategize/play 3-dimensional chess, and a natural actor/able to see the world through the eyes of others. I'd still give him character flaws. he'd be quick to judge and be super competitive. I barely remember the updated continuity for the original 3-D men. but that stuff should be able to mesh with this. my motive in making these changes was to decrease the importance of his skin color, remove the religious angle (it's a personal turn-off), and give him some qualifications (prior to enhancement) that weren't athleticism based.


maybe some toned down colors on the suit

[Michael Watkins]

Replace the Human Torch with a black guy. Make both Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman divorced. Make the Thing more sarcastic and more narcissistic.

just a random black guy or someone related to the others?

[Michael Watkins]

I've said how I'd revamp the Fantastic Four ad nauseam.

always assume that it is someone's first time reading it.

The Thing [/B]- His personality is great, just make him stronger and no more self pity over being the Thing. That plotpoint has become overused.

sure. but it was totally believable that he'd be down about it; originally. I couldn't imagine liking someone, finally getting a chance to spend more time with that person, being disfigured, and having my friend become closer to this person.

]Mr. Fantastic[/B] - Less magical genius and less screentime on FF books. Make him stop treating the team like kids and more like equals.

they should see equal billing. but then what is his draw; if he's not a magical genius? he's not incredibly good looking or charming. and his powers aren't anything to brag about.

Human Torch[/B] - More mature, focus more on his mechanical skills while also making it more obvious that he loves being a superhero.

I certainly agree about him showing more mechanical skill. and he does love being a superhero.

Invisible Woman[/B] - Make her a doctor/surgeon and more involved in the Marvel Universe away from the team. Have her love being an adventurer.

good!

Nightcrawler - More swashbuckler than over-religious priest. Have him be the emotional heart of the X-Men as he should be and be better integrated into the story. He shouldn't just be there as glorified wallpaper *cough* X-Men: Gold *cough*

I do like the swashbuckler side of him. but I appreciate his religious side when it is used sparingly (like whenever the topic of killing their enemies arises). it makes him like one of the gentler x-men; to contrast with his demonic appearance. I haven't liked how he has been used post-millennium. I wasn't stoked about the Azazel storyline either (although Azazel was entertaining enough in the movie).

Storm[/B] - The X-franchise needs to look at the Black Panther books to see how Storm should be done. it's the best she's been in years.

I like her as a leader. but she's the kind of character that I'm never going to fall in love with. she takes herself very seriously. good revamps!

[Crimz]

always assume that it is someone's first time reading it.



sure. but it was totally believable that he'd be down about it; originally. I couldn't imagine liking someone, finally getting a chance to spend more time with that person, being disfigured, and having my friend become closer to this person.



they should see equal billing. but then what is his draw; if he's not a magical genius? he's not incredibly good looking or charming. and his powers aren't anything to brag about.

Ben will likely always have problems with his physical appearance, but the problem is when that is the only basis for character development writers give him. He should have other things just as impactful going on in his life.

On Reed, I should have made myself clearer as I still would like him to be a mega genius. I just don't want his intelligence being the only thing that saves the day all the time as it makes the others look unimportant. The FF have over-relied on Reed's intelligence for years and to the detriment of the other three.

[Michael Watkins]

THE YOUNG AVENGERS (hold on to your butts)

my hatred of the concept is well known; if, for some strange reason, you follow my posts. i don't think that they were made with care. to give you my definition for "made-with-care," i would direct you to Lobdell's Generation X. he and Bachalo, from my perspective, created a team with no weak links. no one had a crappy name. everyone had an identifiable personality and their own little side story. or maybe I'm just nostalgic for the 90s. :shrugs: anyways...

for starters, Bendis told me that killing Scott Lang would make Cassie important. i didn't see that payoff. so I'm going to give her a bigger role/make her a focal point. and, since she could potentially lead a future avengers team, this makes sense. the biggest change would be stealing the Next Avengers story/have the bulk of the team be from the future. future-kid-Kang senses a disturbance in the force. but, in this new story, the youthful Kang actually started out as an Avenger (sorta); their answer to Braniac 5. in their timeline, he, Eli, Billy, Teddy, and Kate are basically thrillseeking avengers-in-training. but they also live in a very peaceful/boring era. so they jumped on the chance to adventure in the past.

so they show up and, behind the scenes, get the lay of the now disbanded-Avengers-run world. they run into Cassie when they visit the ruins of Avengers mansion. we learn that her father taught her a lot about security systems and bypassing locks. but, this time around, they don't immediately make her a member. she, for lack of a better term, stalks them. but it's to show that she's resourceful and determined. she becomes a rick jones-like figure; for a short time. she's also somewhat filling the role that Jessica Jones (curse you bendis) played in the original run; giving us an outsider's perspective on the team. along the way, they use some future device that reveals Cassie's DNA is perfect for the utilization of Pym particles. they all have a run with the Kang we're most used to seeing (who sees this youthful avenger Kang as a complete anomaly). during the altercation, Cassie has to use Pym particles to escape or something. she has an unexpected reaction to them and, from that point on, she's a size-changer. I'd prefer that she use a better name than 'Stature,' though.

Patriot - the only surviving clone of Isaiah Bradley; one of a batch of replaceable sidekicks/buckies for a psychotic religious extremist Captain America. he was freed from a cryo-bath by the future Avengers and has taken the name 'Eli.'

Trickshot - Kate Bishop - lost her parents to future Maggia violence - tested and selected from an orphanage (because of her preternatural aim and coordination) by a now-mostly-cyborg-Imus Champion to live a life of luxury; while also training to be a living weapon and to win at all costs

Alter-Boy - Theodore Altman - a teen experimented on by the Nigh Evolutionary and rescued by the future avengers - his dna is currently a mix of kree, skrull, and deviant - alpha level shape-shifter (takes on the abilities of those he morphs into) - Billy's boyfriend

Wishcraft - William Kaplan - apprentice/gopher to the Scarlet Sorceress Wanda Maximoff - she's more or less his surrogate mother in the future/aids him in coming to terms with his sexual identity and budding magic sensitivity - magic works differently in the past - so he's hit with a bit of a learning curve

ManneQuinn - Kid Kang brings his "pet" artificial intelligence (known as visions in the future) to the present - it's given form when it uploads to Vision's inert husk - it and Kid Kang are, both, enamored with Cassie (she reminds Kang of his first crush Ravonna Watson)

and i don't really have a good story for Kang just yet; at least name-wise. but he's very tech-savvy and, initially, wears the remains of Vision as an iron man-esque armor. when he's seemingly killed, his A.I friend gives life to the armor.

Tommy Shepherd aka Friction does eventually show up as one of the Young Masters (they break him out of a secret supervillain detention center in their intro) - he and Kate have a black cat/spider-man thing going on - he's not Billy's twin in my take but the illegitimate son of Dave Cannon (kind of resembles the Fox version of Quicksilver) - the white hair is just one of those weird physical representations of mutation (like Lorna Dane's green hair)

[Michael Watkins]

Ben will likely always have problems with his physical appearance, but the problem is when that is the only basis for character development writers give him. He should have other things just as impactful going on in his life.

On Reed, I should have made myself clearer as I still would like him to be a mega genius. I just don't want his intelligence being the only thing that saves the day all the time as it makes the others look unimportant. The FF have over-relied on Reed's intelligence for years and to the detriment of the other three.

i think some of that could be solved by making Reed almost paternally interested in seeing other people strut their own intelligence. Sue being smarter/more accomplished is definitely a start. but i would want Reed to be like a college professor; starting an idea but expecting someone (like his wife, for instance) to finish the thought or come at the problem from a different angle. i think this would make him seem like Doom's polar opposite; the latter tends to openly dismiss the capabilities of others. the team should be filling a void in Reed's life. he's years ahead of people intellectually but is desperate for people to meet him on his level; to commune with others intellectually. it's the explorer in him.

[JudicatorPrime]

He's not really a hero, but I want to see Anti-Man return. Before Ewing converted him into an obscenely powerful cosmically aware herald of Galactus, he was considered to be an obscenely powerful Left wing extremist psychopath who had no qualms about vaporizing racists, oppressors, really anyone and everyone on the opposite end of his political viewpoint. Reintroduce him to the present day good ol' U.S. of A. with his sanity intact. Have him try to make sense of current events and rebuild his life in the current climate. I'd like to see AM reconnect with his family. Maybe as a subplot, have his son head up a far right extremists group, if not become a neo-Nazi or klansman. When your children, who you love more than anything, grow up to become the very thing that you oppose, that you fought and railed against your entire life, what do you?

Oh, and send Blue Marvel to the other side of the universe to participate in some type of Watcher rite of passage with his godchild and the rest of Uatu's family. Don't won't BM around to play the predictable foil.

[Digifiend]

Replace the Human Torch with a black guy. Make both Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman divorced. Make the Thing more sarcastic and more narcissistic.

I assume that's a joke about Fant4stic?

just a random black guy or someone related to the others?

Johnny was black in the latest movie.

Delroy Garrett jr.

*shakes head*

it's rare that I like a character and don't like their origin. but the current 3-D Man has a (imo) really unfortunate intro. know how to make people hate a character who is also a minority? have them constantly remind you that they are a minority by aggressively proclaiming the Avengers to be racist while wearing traditionally African colors, having the name 'Delroy,' and a 90s flat top haircut.

To be fair, when he was introduced as Triathlon, it WAS the 90s.

[Captain Wessex]

Sharon Ventura, aka Ms Marvel II

I loathe that she got turned into She-Thing and that she's gone bat-guano crazy.

I'd bring her back by her having been exposed to the Terrigen cloud, coccooned and come out back to her human self. She's still super-strong, but now she's also got a new power (not flight, maybe telekinesis or super-speed?) and she gets a new costume and becomes Red Marvel and regains her senses and becomes a hero again.

[tliscord]

Nick Fury Jr
This may be all too obvious but regarding Nick Fury Jr's arc and origin. First off I have no problem with Nick Sr having another child besides Mikel. But a more compelling story might've left out the obvious bow to the MCU. I'd have developed more of a confrontational approach to father and son, and had Marcus keep his name out of respect for his mother. Marcus would be bitter and perhaps angry at Nick blaming him indirectly for his mom's death, and abandoning them. In fact, Marcus would be at best morally adrift, and could be exploited by Nick's enemies. Given his secret harboring the Infinity Formula only Fury and Marcus know about I'd have the son struggle with his bitterness and his heroism as a Ranger. That would be his constant journey. I nthink maintaining that ambiguity for Marcus would allow him to drift to and from anti SHIELD organizations like Hydra or Leviathan all the while running from his father bent on keeping the Formula out of circulation. Marcus could almost be a fugitive.

Thanks for starting this thread, great idea.

[Michael Watkins]

He's not really a hero, but I want to see Anti-Man return. Before Ewing converted him into an obscenely powerful cosmically aware herald of Galactus, he was considered to be an obscenely powerful Left wing extremist psychopath who had no qualms about vaporizing racists, oppressors, really anyone and everyone on the opposite end of his political viewpoint. Reintroduce him to the present day good ol' U.S. of A. with his sanity intact. Have him try to make sense of current events and rebuild his life in the current climate. I'd like to see AM reconnect with his family. Maybe as a subplot, have his son head up a far right extremists group, if not become a neo-Nazi or klansman. When your children, who you love more than anything, grow up to become the very thing that you oppose, that you fought and railed against your entire life, what do you?

Oh, and send Blue Marvel to the other side of the universe to participate in some type of Watcher rite of passage with his godchild and the rest of Uatu's family. Don't won't BM around to play the predictable foil.

are you asking for Blue Marvel to be shelved? I just want to make sure that I'm understanding you.

[Michael Watkins]

Nick Fury Jr
This may be all too obvious but regarding Nick Fury Jr's arc and origin. First off I have no problem with Nick Sr having another child besides Mikel. But a more compelling story might've left out the obvious bow to the MCU. I'd have developed more of a confrontational approach to father and son, and had Marcus keep his name out of respect for his mother. Marcus would be bitter and perhaps angry at Nick blaming him indirectly for his mom's death, and abandoning them. In fact, Marcus would be at best morally adrift, and could be exploited by Nick's enemies. Given his secret harboring the Infinity Formula only Fury and Marcus know about I'd have the son struggle with his bitterness and his heroism as a Ranger. That would be his constant journey. I nthink maintaining that ambiguity for Marcus would allow him to drift to and from anti SHIELD organizations like Hydra or Leviathan all the while running from his father bent on keeping the Formula out of circulation. Marcus could almost be a fugitive.

Thanks for starting this thread, great idea.

no problem. you beat me to it. I was about to do Nick jr.

for starters, I would abandon the movie synergy of it. they didn't even pretend to not inorganically fashion this kid into some kind of pathos-free version of movie Nick.

. I wouldn't have killed Mikel.
. I would have had Marcus be relatively young...well, army ranger age.
. I'd establish that Nick was always in Marcus' life, in spirit; having SHIELD monitor he and his mother.
. Marcus would have been getting spy/survival training the moment that he was old enough to run; from his mother and retired SHIELD associates
. his story, once introduced, would be as a skilled army vet trying to adjust to life as a trainee SHIELD Agent; while also dealing with the shadow of a larger than life father (who he never officially met)
. he would look like Marcus Johnson did in the first few issues before shaving his head, losing an eye, and having Samuel L Jackson's face photoshopped onto his head
. Phil Coulson, having a reputation as a Nick Fury loyalist, would be Marcus' handler and not "Cheese" and not a fellow army ranger
. Marcus would not be wearing Captain America's secret avengers uniform (instantly making him seem like a nepotism case) or giving anyone orders
. he'd have all of the physical talent but still face the same learning curve as any other SHIELD trainee
. Mikel and Daisy would occassionally be around for moral support
. His connection to Nick would be kept to the higher clearance levels but some of his dad's old enemies would find out