No more politics in the comics???

[Xalfrea]

Any Marvel comic reader should know that for decades, the stories and medium featured politics in one form or another, with every decade from the 60's to the 2000's featuring stories, characters, and other things influenced by them. Whether it is the creation of the Black Panther, to the X-Men representing repressed minorities, they were there.

So how come all of a sudden in recent years, there are so many who say they want politics gone completely? How come after decades of this practice, it's seemingly only NOW that people are raising a big stink? Accusation of SJW's, exercises of political correctness, etc. What is it about this time that makes a decades-old practice suddenly being seen as a taboo and death to the Marvel Comics in general?

[Rogue Star]

Any Marvel comic reader should know that for decades, the stories and medium featured politics in one form or another, with every decade from the 60's to the 2000's featuring stories, characters, and other things influenced by them. Whether it is the creation of the Black Panther, to the X-Men representing repressed minorities, they were there.

So how come all of a sudden in recent years, there are so many who say they want politics gone completely? How come after decades of this practice, it's seemingly only NOW that people are raising a big stink? Accusation of SJW's, exercises of political correctness, etc. What is it about this time that makes a decades-old practice suddenly being seen as a taboo and death to the Marvel Comics in general?

Because, I'm guessing, Marvel is "preaching to the choir". Maybe some people are enjoying it. But others would like to not be preached at anymore. It's not always about what's being preached (politics or... whatever), sometimes people just don't want to be preached at. And this place that we come to - comic books - it's like our only escape from the world outside. Maybe you come to hear a good message from the preacher about what's going on outside. Others just want to get lost in another world. And apparently, there are a lot of them.

[DJ1107]

I wouldn't say they aren't doing politics anymore but they did state they were easing off of it for the majority of their books after SE. Probably just do to the barrage & the mixed reception of titles over the last year that focused so heavily on them got tiring.

[whiterabbit]

Any Marvel comic reader should know that for decades, the stories and medium featured politics in one form or another, with every decade from the 60's to the 2000's featuring stories, characters, and other things influenced by them. Whether it is the creation of the Black Panther, to the X-Men representing repressed minorities, they were there.

So how come all of a sudden in recent years, there are so many who say they want politics gone completely? How come after decades of this practice, it's seemingly only NOW that people are raising a big stink? Accusation of SJW's, exercises of political correctness, etc. What is it about this time that makes a decades-old practice suddenly being seen as a taboo and death to the Marvel Comics in general?

The word Accusation means it's just a charge by someone. There's not a single doubt that Marvel is pushing SJW politics or agendas that sway to one side and hate the other.

Nick Spencer and Mark Waid have outright stated they hate Republicans and Conservatives. Mockingbird's entire premise is about female empowerment, which apparently means retconning rape into consensual sex that ends with Mockingbird killing the guy. Tony Stark is replaced by a Mary Sue who is a psychopath. Thor is replaced by Jane Foster for female empowerment or some shit and his hammer turns out to be alive. Donald Trump is MODOK in one issue and I swear to God, if it was Obama it would have been World War 3.

Ms. Marvel worked, not everything else will. Simple as that.

[regg215]

Politics have always been a part of comics and should remain so to a certain degree but I think that the main complaints right now with marvel is that they tackle politics with the subtlety of a jackhammer currently. Marvel went out of there way to make sure to insult, demean and call anyone who disagrees with their brand of politics a racist/sexist etc. Given the current political environment there are some valid points and things that can be explored for a storytelling perspective, but marvel seems to basically see it as you agree with us or you are hydra. While some political issues are very clearly a matter of right and wrong some things in politics are very complicated issues and if handled with thought and consideration can make for great stories but marvel's attitude that there is no complexity to political issues turns away a lot of people. It also does not help that some writers like waid and spencer make their disdain for anyone who doesn't agree with them very clear, you can't tell almost half the population of the USA that you basically detest them and then act shocked when they don't support your books.

[whiterabbit]

Don't divide your audience. Marvel did just that, they divided and kept the ones who endorsed them and lost the ones who hated them. And very stupidly, they kept the smaller audience.

[Prof. Warren]

Any Marvel comic reader should know that for decades, the stories and medium featured politics in one form or another, with every decade from the 60's to the 2000's featuring stories, characters, and other things influenced by them. Whether it is the creation of the Black Panther, to the X-Men representing repressed minorities, they were there.

So how come all of a sudden in recent years, there are so many who say they want politics gone completely? How come after decades of this practice, it's seemingly only NOW that people are raising a big stink? Accusation of SJW's, exercises of political correctness, etc. What is it about this time that makes a decades-old practice suddenly being seen as a taboo and death to the Marvel Comics in general?

Because we live in a time where people can tailor their consumption of news to fit their views. If you're conservative, you can have your news intake filtered to correspond to your personal outlook. You can have your beliefs constantly reaffirmed and never challenged so anything that conflicts with that stands out all the more. So now even though Marvel Comics are no more liberal than they've been in the past (reread some of Stan Lee's '60s work), it suddenly is perceived as an assault or a lecture - even when the points of views expressed are often only mildly liberal at best ("women are equal") and not incendiary leftist tracts.

So I think it's the times themselves and the fact that conservatives want the echo chamber they have elsewhere to exist in their entertainment as well. The thing is, comics have never been a very conservative medium. "Social justice" is baked into the core of the superhero genre.

[Rogue Star]

And we have to stop pretending that the X-Men in the 90's were successful because they supposedly represented repressed minorities. Yes, those themes were touched on but the X-Men were much more complex than that. Just think of the differences in philosophies that characters had. The ways their powers affected their ability to do things we take for granted, like touch other people or even find a love that you aren't guaranteed to outlive. Those were HUMAN stories, not whatever-identity stories.

When we compare the "identity politics" that are being used now to the 80's, you also have to consider the gap in writing talent or effectiveness. Claremont was able to tackle issues while telling grand tales, while many writers today can't tell a simple story about a hero stopping a bank robbery without it reading like a middle schooler wrote it. The identity politics either take center stage or the story is simply trash. Comparisons shouldn't even be made. But if a person cares more about a character's race, sex, age, sexual orientation, political party or religion than they do about the story actually being a good, then there's nothing that can be said to convince them that there is a problem now.

[Rosebunse]

I personally think people get too bent out of shape. And I don't mean the more liberal side. Who cares if Iceman is gay? Who cares if there are gay characters at all? Who cares if black people suddenly have actual character arcs and aren't just vague stereotypes? And that female costumes are no longer weird pseudo-lingerie?

Why are any of these things considered so divisive and political? What is wrong with Marvel reminding us that Nazism is bad?

[Rogue Star]

Deserves to be shared:

Responding to those who say "comics were always political," not really. Cap punching Hitler is not controversial because Hitler literally killed millions of people in concentration camps. Calling him out didn't alienate a significant portion of the readership. There were very few in America who approved of Hitler, even before the US got involved in the war. And that was mostly just isolationists from both sides. That said, to compare the politics in today's comics to comics from over fifty years ago taking on contemptible and evil ideologies such as Nazism, communism, and Jim Crow segregation. Those were cut and dry ideologies. Nowadays good people with no ill will towards others are getting lumped in with extremists and everyone gets blamed on that side. Typical democrats shouldn't be lumped in with Antifa anarchists. Typical republicans shouldn't be lumped in with Neo-Nazi human garbage. These are tiny factions that do not represent 99% of Americans.

[KurtW95]

I personally think people get too bent out of shape. And I don't mean the more liberal side. Who cares if Iceman is gay? Who cares if there are gay characters at all? Who cares if black people suddenly have actual character arcs and aren't just vague stereotypes? And that female costumes are no longer weird pseudo-lingerie?

Why are any of these things considered so divisive and political? What is wrong with Marvel reminding us that Nazism is bad?

The problem with the way Marvel handles their minority characters these dayside that they either written more stereotypical than ever or trying so hard to be anti-stereotypical that all character flaws are removed and the character becomes boring. Honestly, the best minority character being written right now is Sam Alexander Nova. I didn't like him at first because he was taking Rich Rider's place, but now that Rich is back, I have absolutely no problem with Sam. He's more interesting than any of the other minority characters being trotted out because he actually has flaws. He messes up. Bad things happen to him. That harkens back to classic Peter Parker.

[Rogue Star]

I personally think people get too bent out of shape. And I don't mean the more liberal side. Who cares if Iceman is gay? Who cares if there are gay characters at all? Who cares if black people suddenly have actual character arcs and aren't just vague stereotypes? And that female costumes are no longer weird pseudo-lingerie?

Why are any of these things considered so divisive and political? What is wrong with Marvel reminding us that Nazism is bad?

This is how you're missing the point: instead of asking the reader, you should be asking Marvel. They're the ones who are trying to draw attention to all of the things you've named.

People are responding by saying "Okay, we get it, Marvel - you're not racist or sexist or homophobic. Now can we please get back to good storytelling and can you please find a way that we can still read about the characters we love?!"

DC is 1000 times better at what Marvel is trying to be. DC has diverse characters AND their mainstays all in peak condition. And they don't blow the trumpet to draw attention to themselves over there. They just do it like it's business as usual. Why can't people look at DC and say, "Hey, what are they doing that Marvel isn't"???!

[Prof. Warren]

And we have to stop pretending that the X-Men in the 90's were successful because they supposedly represented repressed minorities. Yes, those themes were touched on but the X-Men were much more complex than that. Just think of the differences in philosophies that characters had. The ways their powers affected their ability to do things we take for granted, like touch other people or even find a love that you aren't guaranteed to outlive. Those were HUMAN stories, not whatever-identity stories.

When we compare the "identity politics" that are being used now to the 80's, you also have to consider the gap in writing talent or effectiveness. Claremont was able to tackle issues while telling grand tales, while many writers today can't tell a simple story about a hero stopping a bank robbery without it reading like a middle schooler wrote it. The identity politics either take center stage or the story is simply trash. Comparisons shouldn't even be made. But if a person cares more about a character's race, sex, age, sexual orientation, political party or religion than they do about the story actually being a good, then there's nothing that can be said to convince them that there is a problem now.

Of the X-books, I'm currently reading Blue, Gold and Astonishing. I'm also rereading the '80s X-Factor. The latter is far, far more political than anything in the new books - most of which abstain from politics altogether.

If X-Factor were released today, the complaints would be all about how Marvel needs to stop shoving liberal messages down their reader's throats and "just tell good stories."

Deserves to be shared:

It should be noted that Cap punching Hitler was controversial at the time.

From this CBR piece:

http://www.cbr.com/the-history-behin...nching-hitler/

"But there was still some vocal support for Germany in the States, or at least support for leaving things alone for now (most Americans figured that the Nazis would eventually try to attack the United States or its interests, but didn’t want to do anything until that actually happened). When Jack Kirby and Joe Simon came out with their comic featuring Hitler being mocked, Joe Simon recalled (as I related in an old Comic Book Legends Revealed):

"We were inundated with a torrent of raging hate mail and vicious, obscene telephone calls. The theme was “death to the Jews.” At first we were inclined to laugh off their threats, but then, people in the office reported seeing menacing-looking groups of strange men in front of the building on Forty Second Street and some of the employees were fearful of leaving the office for lunch. Finally, we reported the threats to the police department. The result was a police guard on regular shifts patrolling the halls and office."

There was also a lot of support for the cover, of course. But it was controversial in that it incurred anger from some conservative extremists, much like some comics do today.

[Ianbarreilles]

I'm not bothered at all by their political messages in their comics and I'm talking about the 2015-2017 period of marvel since that's the period of marvel comics that the fans claim to hate or dislike in terms of marvel's political messaging in their titles.

The political messaging in secret empire and in both captain america Sam Wilson, and captain america Steve Rogers were also both amazing stuff storytelling wise and in their political messaging.

[Rogue Star]

Of the X-books, I'm currently reading Blue, Gold and Astonishing. I'm also rereading the '80s X-Factor. The latter is far, far more political than anything in the new books - most of which abstain from politics altogether.

If X-Factor were released today, the complaints would be all about how Marvel needs to stop shoving liberal messages down their reader's throats and "just tell good stories."

What kind of "political" are you talking about, exactly. I need to be sure you're responding to something I actually said.