No more politics in the comics???

[Redjack]

Just what is so "extreme" about what he said? He's absolutely right. SOME people see token characters as progress. It's not. Token characters are a means to avoid the appearance of being racist. And Marvel shamelessly virtue signals. As a minority, they don't get any points from me. We absolutely have every right to complain. I resent what you're implying by calling that extreme.

LOL.

What "token" characters? Please, let's have a list.

And while you're digging, please, let's also have that list of the massive number of books where PoC, non-straights and women have replaced white men in Marvel comics.

And also, lets have a list or a set of links to every time one of you protested or cried "foul" in the last ten years (lets be fair here.), online when 90%+ of all editorial and creative employees and freelancers at Marvel and DC were white males.

The reason you guys get dismissed is because you're wrong. You are being judged by your words and the positions you take.

[_Feely_]

From their Lefty radical roots, comics have become Conservative corporate behemoths enslaved to the perpetuity of the Status Quo.

The "Main" fanbase has followed suit.

"Fans" don't want to be challenged. They want what they read as kids and they want it forever and ever.

It's almost like my job is done.....

*Classy Single Tear*

[Midnight_v]

Fire be that guy. Nobody has to listen. In fact some people will call you out on your privilege because you think comics are worth all of that effort. Those of us that think comics are worth it, will decide based on our own judgment of your position. I and many others have already heard enough.

Nobody is saying you can't express those opinions on those things, they are questioning the validity of that position. It is totally invalid as an opinion. You may as well say the moon is made of cheese.

The opinion you are expressing makes you a part of a wider problem, and those of us that can recognise that problem just don't want to argue with that position. We prefer to turn away and we will tell others to do so, as is our right. Marvel will also turn away. The writers will turn away. The people that like the comics will turn away.

If people are genuinely confused why we consider your position so extreme we will explain, but we don't need to actively argue with anyone as extreme as you.

If you don't think you are being extreme pay attention to who isn't listening. People that are clearly telling you they are not left-leaning or extreme. People that have the power to decide what Marvel do. People that write. People that care about comics enough to at least turn away in a way that you notice.

Watch us turning away. We are not listening. You have invalidated anything you could possibly add to the argument with your own argument.

Well, bye?

But I find it Utterly disgusting to see someone so be disingenuous and leave out other relevant bits.

Finally, as an African-American I grew up labeled on way or another by people of another race and people of my own race for that matter. Its best to understand you beliefs, defend your views, and expect a certain low crowd to try to shame you into joining them or abandoning what you believe... don't let them.


Tl;dr the politics in the comics are an extension of the comics at play among the employees. It'd be nice if the two were separate, but since they're not....

On thing I agree with:
Don't buy what you don't like. Just Don't. However, don't shut up about it. EVER. Let everyone know how poorly the current marvel comics staff is. Explain, how bad they're butchering the characters you love, and why.
Express in exact terms how Racist and sexist marvel has become. Call them out on their tokenism, and virtue signalling, hidden under the veil of "diversity". Explain how they've kept Writers who make bigoted statements.
Keep it on the tip of your tongue. Repeat it often, and support other people who you see with opinions mirroring your own.
If someone asks you about comics direct them to manga, or D.C. But to do that you'll need to be enjoying those things yourself

Call me out on my privilege, a man born to a 13 year old mother, in abject POVERTY.
"Call out Culture" does not work on people who actually faced real-life discrimination and hardship. Being called names by white people is nothing new. Being called names by black people is nothing new. Succeeded and to some I'm an uncle tom, fail I'm just another statistic (but thats not the word they use), but loved by people glorifying stereotypes.
You can maybe shame people out of their political position sometimes, but I actually earned everything in life that I have.
Now you can stop up your ears all you like, frankly I don't care.
I'm not here for you nor trying to sway you on the topic. I'm here for the people who look at the "Politics in Comics" an say "What is going on here?"
People who you try to shut down by saying "You positions are racist and bigoted, blah blah blah..." to People that are clearly telling you they are not racist or bigoted.
I'm not racist, shrug. I'm certainly not bigoted. I'm totally aligned against the positions concerning comics you take.

If you don't think you are being extreme pay attention to who isn't listening. People that have the power to decide what Marvel do. People that write. People that care about comics enough to at least turn away in a way that you notice.

I am. That's why its become extremely important that I encourage people to speak out against it. That I step up and say "No" when people are being called bigots, and racists anytime they don't agree with or conform with a bad idea or crappy direction in a comic book. My voice and my dollar alone is not enough, their voice and their dollar may not be enough either.

People bring the small flames of their wishes together... since they don't want to extinguish the small flame... they'll bring that small flame to a bigger fire

So as of this thread I'm going to go and patreon to those small youtube channels that critique marvels and try to do something about this current push of authoritarian politics and directions that push diversity and identitarian and racism closer together.
These books are deliberately labeling one side of the discussion as "evil" these writers are using their position to do so. Historically, once you label one side as evil it gives moral highground to do anything to the "evil folk" this is a terrible era for american comics.

Watch us turning away. We are not listening.

Someone out there wondering if they're alone? Is listening.

[C_haos]

Any Marvel comic reader should know that for decades, the stories and medium featured politics in one form or another, with every decade from the 60's to the 2000's featuring stories, characters, and other things influenced by them. Whether it is the creation of the Black Panther, to the X-Men representing repressed minorities, they were there.

So how come all of a sudden in recent years, there are so many who say they want politics gone completely? How come after decades of this practice, it's seemingly only NOW that people are raising a big stink? Accusation of SJW's, exercises of political correctness, etc. What is it about this time that makes a decades-old practice suddenly being seen as a taboo and death to the Marvel Comics in general?

I think Marvel maybe on the wrong side but I feel like I'm a lot of cases not a lot has been done to explore all sides of an issue that makes readers connect with characters. A great or even good story trumps anything else.

[Rogue Star]

The fact that you believe Jane is depicted as "Better-Thor" and that you choose to refer to her derisively as "Better-Thor" rather than by her actual name of Jane Foster says a lot about your views. Says everything, really.

Please, don't be cryptic. Enlighten me!

[Rogue Star]

LOL.

What "token" characters? Please, let's have a list.

And while you're digging, please, let's also have that list of the massive number of books where PoC, non-straights and women have replaced white men in Marvel comics.

And also, lets have a list or a set of links to every time one of you protested or cried "foul" in the last ten years (lets be fair here.), online when 90%+ of all editorial and creative employees and freelancers at Marvel and DC were white males.

The reason you guys get dismissed is because you're wrong. You are being judged by your words and the positions you take.

I don't have to provide a list, I'll just tell you what a token characters is and you can figure out the rest. When books begin to insert supporting characters with little to no traits beyond being [insert race here] because the cast would be too [insert race here] without them, that's tokenism. If I gave you a list, you would attempt to dismiss my argument based on the number of names I give you. But the number doesn't matter as much as the fact that a character is a token does. Like I said, token characters are not progress. And they do exist whether you chose to acknowledge it or not.

[NohWonn]

Just finished reading thru some of my old classic books and came across What If Volume II # 67 and 68; Seems like Nick Spencer is NOT reaally all that creative, but he is a good plagarist.

[Drops Of Venus]

It is simply a fact that almost every assistant editor is a woman. Does that not make you wonder why that is? If everything was equal, females wouldn't make up 90% of an assistant position. That's just a fact. I'm not even making a claim besides just calling out that that's a strange business practice that can clearly be tied to leftist ideology. Same goes for Rivera. The character of America Chavez is a queer latina woman. So Marvel went out and hired a queer latina woman, with little experience (which doesn't necessarily mean that she's a bad writer btw) to write the comic.

I had to respond to this because these sort of ''opinions'' bug the hell out of me. Understand something: Marvel went out and hired a queer latina woman who had previous experience writing a queer latina character. That is a huge factor that you're ignoring in your narrative. They just didn't go around and hired the first random queer latina woman they saw in front of them, they HAD to know her work. Now, I'm not a big fan of Gabby's writing, BUT the fact that she had worked on a novel that was arguably successful among a specific audience could and probably DID have an impact in Marvel's decision to hire her. She had the voice that they were looking for and she could potentially reach the audience that they were looking for, and yes, part of the reason why she had all of that was because she happened to be a queer latina woman with a unique perspective of life and stories, but that's just a consequence of the hiring, not the entire cause. Same goes for Coates or any other diverse writer who HAS the specific experience and/or knowledge of writing the type of characters and/or stories Marvel wanted them to. Those people HAVE to prove themselves. They just don't get a call or are invited for an interview without ANY evaluation of their work. They don't get hired if Marvel hates their work or doesn't see any potential in them. You act like they get a free pass just for being who they are, and yes, that is absolutely arrogant and insulting to assume.

[Username taken]

I had to respond to this because these sort of ''opinions'' bug the hell out of me. Understand something: Marvel went out and hired a queer latina woman who had previous experience writing a queer latina character. That is a huge factor that you're ignoring in your narrative. They just didn't go around and hired the first random queer latina woman they saw in front of them, they HAD to know her work. Now, I'm not a big fan of Gabby's writing, BUT the fact that she had worked on a novel that was arguably successful among a specific audience could and probably DID have an impact in Marvel's decision to hire her. She had the voice that they were looking for and she could potentially reach the audience that they were looking for, and yes, part of the reason why she had all of that was because she happened to be a queer latina woman with a unique perspective of life and stories, but that's just a consequence of the hiring, not the entire cause. Same goes for Coates or any other diverse writer who HAS the specific experience and/or knowledge of writing the type of characters and/or stories Marvel wanted them to. Those people HAVE to prove themselves. They just don't get a call or are invited for an interview without ANY evaluation of their work. They don't get hired if Marvel hates their work or doesn't see any potential in them. You act like they get a free pass just for being who they are, and yes, that is absolutely arrogant and insulting to assume.

Quoted for truth.

Some of the comments I've heard today about "female" or "queer" employment sounds like stuff coming out of Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia or Qatar.

This isn't about politics at all, it's just downright insulting and bigoted to question individuals employment that you know nothing of based on sex, race or gender. When Marvel announce these guys they refer to their body of work, why should people ignore this and focus on their sex, race or gender???

[Valamist]

I had to respond to this because these sort of ''opinions'' bug the hell out of me. Understand something: Marvel went out and hired a queer latina woman who had previous experience writing a queer latina character. That is a huge factor that you're ignoring in your narrative. They just didn't go around and hired the first random queer latina woman they saw in front of them, they HAD to know her work. Now, I'm not a big fan of Gabby's writing, BUT the fact that she had worked on a novel that was arguably successful among a specific audience could and probably DID have an impact in Marvel's decision to hire her. She had the voice that they were looking for and she could potentially reach the audience that they were looking for, and yes, part of the reason why she had all of that was because she happened to be a queer latina woman with a unique perspective of life and stories, but that's just a consequence of the hiring, not the entire cause. Same goes for Coates or any other diverse writer who HAS the specific experience and/or knowledge of writing the type of characters and/or stories Marvel wanted them to. Those people HAVE to prove themselves. They just don't get a call or are invited for an interview without ANY evaluation of their work. They don't get hired if Marvel hates their work or doesn't see any potential in them. You act like they get a free pass just for being who they are, and yes, that is absolutely arrogant and insulting to assume.

Brilliantly said.

[Conn Seanery]

Apologies to the people that are managing to stay polite and civil, those that aren't are making a mess of this thread.